PA Upgrade Time

[JAMdisco]

Right!

I think it's time to upgrade / change my Mackie PA system.
Currently have 1 x SWA1501 sub, 2 x SRM450 tops producing a max total of 1400W. Obviously I want a similar output but am inclined to go with (wait for it Peter (Excalibur) CLASS D :eek: )

This is the sort of thing I'm after for speakers http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=543

What amps would best be suited to this set up (I want to ba able to split the system for smaller discos (i.e. just the tops)

I'll be selling the Mackie system to fund this project, I'm reckoning around £700 for the lot. So my budget for amps (after buying the speakers) will be in the £350 bracket.

Final question - Does anyone think this would be a backward move and should I stay with the Mackies.

[JAMdisco]

Just been looking at amps and saw these http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=723
If my maths is correct, 2 of these powering the speakers in afore-mentioned post would give me the option of a 1k rig with just tops or a 2k rig with all speakers for a total of £717. I think this would be the way forward (although yet to hear them - am basically going on reccomendations) Obviously I would not buy without hearing them first.

[davidcormack]

dont think much of the piezo horns cant see much quality top end coming from them.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Final question - Does anyone think this would be a backward move and should I stay with the Mackies.

I haven't heard them personally, but judging what I've heard from other forums, this would be a backwards step.

[Excalibur]

Just been looking at amps and saw these http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=723
If my maths is correct, 2 of these powering the speakers in afore-mentioned post would give me the option of a 1k rig with just tops or a 2k rig with all speakers for a total of £717. I think this would be the way forward (although yet to hear them - am basically going on reccomendations) Obviously I would not buy without hearing them first.

Edit: That would mean shoving 500w into a box rated at 350w. This is with bridged amps, for various reasons which I can show you this is not ideal.

If it were me, the closest you get is like this, which is the sort of rig I would have got if I knew then what I know now.
http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=718

I don't think you'll get what you want at the price, but my suggestion based on your requirements would be: Start with this, £675 ( Edit again, to all intents and purposes, I have one of these rigs, I just bought it separately )

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cass-D-1-5Kwatt-PA-Disco-DJ-Instalation_W0QQitemZ180223854859QQihZ008QQcategor yZ47094QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

That's as close as you'll get to what you asked for initially. To get the same power, but with crossover control, you'll need to:

Add this £250http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KAM-KXR-1500-POWER-AMP-DJ-equipment-Band-PA-system_W0QQitemZ380006753983QQihZ025QQcategoryZ699 62QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

And something like this for good measure. £65
http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=568

All up, around £1000! :eek: Way over budget. Let me know when you have any free time, and I'll rig some of mine up for a play.



I haven't heard them personally, but judging what I've heard from other forums, this would be a backwards step.

Darren, normally I would refer disparagingly to the portion of your post which I highlighted, but as I have not heard the Mackies properly, it would be a pot and kettle scenario!
Logically, you have to be right, but I think a good option would be to run JD's Mackies against my Class-D's, for a comparison test.

[JAMdisco]

So why is it then, that on the Class D web site they quote figures at 8 & 4 ohms for both the speakers AND amps???

Anyone offering £1000 for my Mackies and I'll stick em on DJ Bids.

[Excalibur]

So why is it then, that on the Class D web site they quote figures at 8 & 4 ohms for both the speakers AND amps???

Anyone offering £1000 for my Mackies and I'll stick em on DJ Bids.

Bescause they are doing what one or two folk suggest, which is to run subs and tops in parallel, eg feed TOPS first, and link into subs. The first link I gave is into 15" full range first, parallel into subs, gives 4ohms. Add 12" tops to sub crossover, to boost top output.

[CRAZY K]

Right!

I think it's time to upgrade / change my Mackie PA system.
Currently have 1 x SWA1501 sub, 2 x SRM450 tops producing a max total of 1400W. Obviously I want a similar output but am inclined to go with (wait for it Peter (Excalibur) CLASS D :eek: )

This is the sort of thing I'm after for speakers http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=543

What amps would best be suited to this set up (I want to ba able to split the system for smaller discos (i.e. just the tops)

I'll be selling the Mackie system to fund this project, I'm reckoning around £700 for the lot. So my budget for amps (after buying the speakers) will be in the £350 bracket.

Final question - Does anyone think this would be a backward move and should I stay with the Mackies.

Out of interest what extra would you get from other systems in terms of sound quality and bass end thats not available from Mackie--although I havent heard Mackie all the reports are generally very positive. Even Rob likes them:D

What dont you like about your existing set up?

Interested because I may well go Active next year---not me --my sound system:D :D :D

thanks

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Out of interest what extra would you get from other systems in terms of sound quality and bass end thats not available from Mackie--although I havent heard Mackie all the reports are generally very positive.

Each brand has its devotees, as we all know. ;)


Even Rob likes them:D

You're surely not using that as a recommendation? It's only cos he can't carry Peaveys, or Class-D! :D :D :D

( Don't I remember him saying the Peaveys sounded better, but were too heavy? :confused: )


What dont you like about your existing set up?

Interested because I may well go Active next year---not me --my sound system:D :D :D

thanks

CRAZY K

Im thinking of going into hibernation!!:D :D

[JAMdisco]

Out of interest what extra would you get from other systems in terms of sound quality and bass end thats not available from Mackie--although I havent heard Mackie all the reports are generally very positive. Even Rob likes them:D

What dont you like about your existing set up?

Interested because I may well go Active next year---not me --my sound system:D :D :D

thanks

CRAZY K

One of my main concerns is that (true or not) is that I was told by a music store that my active sub has no servicable parts inside. Luckily it was only a faulty power switch when mine went down. I did a search and for a new amp module your looking around £300 :eek: ouch.
On the same vain if a speaker or amp went down
a) they're generally servicable (replacement parts)
b) cheap enough to replace.

Also John (Twinspin) had his Mackie SRM450 high frequency driver blown by some dizzy woman doing a speech IN FRONT OF HIS SPEAKER :eek: after he told them not too. I went to see him and his poorly Mackie on Sunday and it sounded awful. I know this could have happened with any system but I dread to think how much to replace?

Also I'm constantly looking to improve the clarity and bass response and I think it's time to look at other options. The guy from the repair shop said that a sub should never be attached to an amp (i.e. active). Right or wrong, I thought I'd take it on board and look around and Class D were the obvious choice as they are always been raved about on here. Cheap as chips too for what you're actually getting (if they're as good as people reckon)

I reckon the Mackies will be on ebay or dj bids fairly soon.

[One Vision]

Hya fellas, I haven't heard either mackies or class-d but surely this would be a downgrade rather than an upgrade?
I cant honestly see how any company can build quality speakers for the price class-d sell for.
Yes they may sound decent and they reckon they'll go up against such as peavey etc. to prove so but then what peavey system are they comparing them to, not all peavey gear is good?
I dont know exactly what drivers Class-D use but I am assuming the bass drivers are the cheaper steel pressed ones as apposed to decent cast ones and the tops being the cheep £3 each piezo horns.

In the next couple of months I will be looking for a new pa system and have been thinking of the mackies but even them with their price tag I wont be convinced until I hear them first.

[JAMdisco]

Im thinking of going into hibernation!!:D :D

Do you want me to give you a call in Spring - Oh it's spring already!!!

[Excalibur]

One of my main concerns is that (true or not) is that I was told by a music store that my active sub has no servicable parts inside. Luckily it was only a faulty power switch when mine went down. I did a search and for a new amp module your looking around £300 :eek: ouch.
On the same vain if a speaker or amp went down
a) they're generally servicable (replacement parts)
b) cheap enough to replace.

Also John (Twinspin) had his Mackie SRM450 high frequency driver blown by some dizzy woman doing a speech IN FRONT OF HIS SPEAKER :eek: after he told them not too. I went to see him and his poorly Mackie on Sunday and it sounded awful. I know this could have happened with any system but I dread to think how much to replace?

Also I'm constantly looking to improve the clarity and bass response and I think it's time to look at other options. The guy from the repair shop said that a sub should never be attached to an amp (i.e. active). Right or wrong, I thought I'd take it on board and look around and Class D were the obvious choice as they are always been raved about on here. Cheap as chips too for what you're actually getting (if they're as good as people reckon)

I reckon the Mackies will be on ebay or dj bids fairly soon.


As you keep listing aims and requirements, and my brain cells keep firing sporadically, perhaps one solution could be to simply get an active crossover, amp and two subs, and keep your active tops. £500 or so, minus the value of your sub.

Or you could plunder the credit card, stock up on Shredded Wheat, and have this for £1200 with two amps and a crossover, for 1.5Kw! ( But no Louise! )
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-D-CD18215SP-2-3K-speaker-system-DJ-Bands-Install_W0QQitemZ170201124291QQihZ007QQcategoryZ69 967QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem


Hya fellas, I haven't heard either mackies or class-d but surely this would be a downgrade rather than an upgrade?
I cant honestly see how any company can build quality speakers for the price class-d sell for.
Yes they may sound decent and they reckon they'll go up against such as peavey etc. to prove so but then what peavey system are they comparing them to, not all peavey gear is good?
I dont know exactly what drivers Class-D use but I am assuming the bass drivers are the cheaper steel pressed ones as apposed to decent cast ones and the tops being the cheep £3 each piezo horns.

In the next couple of months I will be looking for a new pa system and have been thinking of the mackies but even them with their price tag I wont be convinced until I hear them first.

Don't be so disparaging of what you haven't heard. I ran my Class-D against a band using very good Peavey gear, and though they won on volume
( having more amps in use than me) My sound was better in my opinion. Technically, both of us were running the same amount of 15" drivers, so it was as fair a contest as you could have.
Some of them run piezos, and my latest set are compression, so you may have whatever floats your boat/suits your wallet. ;)

It's a shame I couldn't make the speaker meet, it would have been nice to run the Class-D's against name gear, and get people's opinions. We'll let you know what JD thinks when we've had a go with his mackies. ;)

[JAMdisco]

As you keep listing aims and requirements, and my brain cells keep firing sporadically, perhaps one solution could be to simply get an active crossover, amp and two subs, and keep your active tops. £500 or so, minus the value of your sub.

Or you could plunder the credit card, stock up on Shredded Wheat, and have this for £1200 with two amps and a crossover, for 1.5Kw! ( But no Louise! )
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-D-CD18215SP-2-3K-speaker-system-DJ-Bands-Install_W0QQitemZ170201124291QQihZ007QQcategoryZ69 967QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

No, If I do it, it'll be a clean sweep - job lot!

I like the original 3 tier system but I very much doubt it'll go in my car :(
Oh, and with referance to the credit card plundering, I plundered it into the bin in several pieces months ago. Now if I can't pay for it I won't buy it. I enjoy the job but it's not worth getting into debt for.

[Corabar Steve]

I haven't heard them personally, but judging what I've heard from other forums, this would be a backwards step.

Not if the sound I got from the Mackies last night is anything to go by (still haven't replaced the Calss Ds)

[Excalibur]

Not if the sound I got from the Mackies last night is anything to go by (still haven't replaced the Calss Ds)

Please elaborate on that Steve, as many of us would be interested to know your experiences. ( I'm guessing you had Passive Mackies, which must I'm sure lose out to Actives of the same model)


You haven't replaced the Class-D's yet? Go on admit it, you're wavering aren't you? ;) ;) :D :D Doesn't that stack with 18" subs, and twin 15" tops look so good, eh? ;) :D :D :D :D :D :D

Edit: Here you go JD, two cabs, one amp, 1.2K, £650 and as much bass as you can ever need.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Citronic-Ultima-PRO-2000-Amplifier-2-x-1000W-PA-DJ_W0QQitemZ180200769910QQihZ008QQcategoryZ68247QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-d-CD215SP-1300watt-speakers-DJ-Groups-Install_W0QQitemZ170200130234QQihZ007QQcategoryZ69 967QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Please elaborate on that Steve, as many of us would be interested to know your experiences. ( I'm guessing you had Passive Mackies, which must I'm sure lose out to Actives of the same model)


I have had both passive and active Mackies and the actives are better sounding.

[One Vision]

Don't be so disparaging of what you haven't heard. I ran my Class-D against a band using very good Peavey gear, and though they won on volume
( having more amps in use than me) My sound was better in my opinion. Technically, both of us were running the same amount of 15" drivers, so it was as fair a contest as you could have.
Some of them run piezos, and my latest set are compression, so you may have whatever floats your boat/suits your wallet. ;)

It's a shame I couldn't make the speaker meet, it would have been nice to run the Class-D's against name gear, and get people's opinions. We'll let you know what JD thinks when we've had a go with his mackies. ;)

Am not knocking them mate and am not saying they don't sound good far from it, how would I know I have never heard them?
All I am saying is it will take some convincing at them prices to weather they are gonna be giving out the same performance in 2 years time and not gonna let me down.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Not if the sound I got from the Mackies last night is anything to go by (still haven't replaced the Calss Ds)

The thread is about going from active Mackie to passive class D anyway.

[Excalibur]

I have had both passive and active Mackies and the actives are better sounding.

Which is what I said. ;)


The thread is about going from active Mackie to passive class D anyway.

Which has got to be an interesting concept, even for someone like me!:eek:

Am not knocking them mate and am not saying they don't sound good far from it, how would I know I have never heard them?
All I am saying is it will take some convincing at them prices to weather they are gonna be giving out the same performance in 2 years time and not gonna let me down.

Well I'll let you know in eleven months time. ;) :D

[One Vision]

No problem bud, if they are as good as they say ill hold my hand up I just keep thinking soundlab of skytech for them prices :eek:

Out of interest does anybody know what type of drivers are in the Class-D?

[Excalibur]

No problem bud, if they are as good as they say ill hold my hand up I just keep thinking soundlab of skytech for them prices :eek:

As do many people, but that is way off the mark. Incidentally, they have gone up a lot since some of us started with them. My large cabs are £40 dearer for example, and my new tops are £250 per pair. Not as cheap as I would like! ;) :D

I haven't opened mine up to look, but they are selling Eminence drivers on their website. Another poster said on here that he preferred Class-D drivers to some better known ones he had used.

[CRAZY K]

One of my main concerns is that (true or not) is that I was told by a music store that my active sub has no servicable parts inside. Luckily it was only a faulty power switch when mine went down. I did a search and for a new amp module your looking around £300 :eek: ouch.
On the same vain if a speaker or amp went down
a) they're generally servicable (replacement parts)
b) cheap enough to replace.

Also John (Twinspin) had his Mackie SRM450 high frequency driver blown by some dizzy woman doing a speech IN FRONT OF HIS SPEAKER :eek: after he told them not too. I went to see him and his poorly Mackie on Sunday and it sounded awful. I know this could have happened with any system but I dread to think how much to replace?

Also I'm constantly looking to improve the clarity and bass response and I think it's time to look at other options. The guy from the repair shop said that a sub should never be attached to an amp (i.e. active). Right or wrong, I thought I'd take it on board and look around and Class D were the obvious choice as they are always been raved about on here. Cheap as chips too for what you're actually getting (if they're as good as people reckon)

I reckon the Mackies will be on ebay or dj bids fairly soon.

Yeah thats a bit worrying--blowing horn units--I spend a large amount of time in front of the Speakers with a mike--although possibly not right up close as may have been the case--somoene like that I would just chop the mike out until they moved to a proper position.

Usually the sqealing in their ear does the trick though!

Do Mackie or Class D get a 5 year warranty like I do on my Peaveys:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[One Vision]

Hya CRAZY K what peaveys you got?

[CRAZY K]

Hya CRAZY K what peaveys you got?

FOR SMALL GIGS--Pro 15s
LARGER GIGS/ MARQUEES Add Peavey Subs

CRAZY K

[One Vision]

OOO, am not being sarcastic here mate but going of the spec of the class-D they would blow them away and possibly built as good.
I have seen inside the pro series and they are not very good and don't actually sound that good.
I have compared the pro series with other peaveys and they just did not impress at all.
If you ever get the chance listen to a pair of peavey UL15's which are rated at 500wrms at 8ohms continuous, they honestly make the pros sound like a couple of empty bean cans.
They are around £350+ each which in terms of professional DJ gear is respectable.

500 Watts RMS continuous, 1000 Watts program, 2000 Watts peak 15'' (381mm) BlackWidow® woofer, cast frame with field-replaceable basket RX™22 compression driver coupled with a CD-Horn Dispersion: 90° H x 45° V Frequency response: 60 Hz - 17.5 kHz Efficiency: 98dB Neutrik® Speakon® connectors Full range and bi-amp operation with Sound Guard™ Mid-range contour EQ switch Resilient carpet covered Silver steel grille Alloy stand adaptor Teardrop handles Lightweight Poplar Plywood construction Made in the UK Dimensions: 27.4'' (695mm)H x 19.9'' (505mm)W x 19.3'' (490mm)D Weight: 56.2lbs (25.5kg)


If I had the room in my car thats what I would be getting.

Sorry if I offended, not what I was trying to do.

[Excalibur]

Do Mackie or Class D get a 5 year warranty like I do on my Peaveys:D :D :D

CRAZY K

No, but I have had parts replaced free on a two new for one broken basis. ;) :D
Crazy, people are going to start asking if you work for Peavey! :D


If you ever get the chance listen to a pair of peavey UL15's which are rated at 500wrms at 8ohms continuous, they honestly make the pros sound like a couple of empty bean cans.
They are around £350+ each which in terms of professional DJ gear is respectable.



If I had the room in my car thats what I would be getting.



If I had the money in my bank account, that's what I'd be getting! ;) :D I've worked with a couple of bands who use UL115/UL15 subs and tops, and they sound lovely.
Mind you I put my Class-D's against a band with 215S subs, and JD's beloved 4XT tops(:D ) and considering my rig must have cost £2000-£2500 less, I was a very happy bunny. ;) :D :D

[djsteve10]

Don't see why you want to upgrade from Mackie when they are such a nice system,
But totally upto you really isnt it,
I might consider your offer of a grand for your mackies too.

[CRAZY K]

No, but I have had parts replaced free on a two new for one broken basis. ;) :D
Crazy, people are going to start asking if you work for Peavey! :D



If I had the money in my bank account, that's what I'd be getting! ;) :D I've worked with a couple of bands who use UL115/UL15 subs and tops, and they sound lovely.
Mind you I put my Class-D's against a band with 215S subs, and JD's beloved 4XT tops(:D ) and considering my rig must have cost £2000-£2500 less, I was a very happy bunny. ;) :D :D

Hmmm what you guys dont realise is---

The UL15s are in the words of a Pro Disco Shop I use--for Bands use rather than discos.

I have used them when working with a band and they are fine but I dont want the heavier, louder speaker that the UL15 is--

I want portability and ability to mix and match--which I get.

I dont find the comments about Pro 15s offensive--they are just not credible.

Im not a power mad entertainer needing to blow my audiences heads off--just have a reasonable sound they can appreciate and hear the vocals clearly--which is what I get.

For my job--thats all I need so im happy with what I have.

Vectis Vibe has the same set up as me so no doubt he will tell you how he finds the Peaveys sounding.

Sure they might not be the very best sound around but they have a reputation--especially with hard working bands--for long term reliability over a very very long time combined with a reasonable sound--which back on thread is what we all probably want in the long term.

I dont have a bias for any speakers or USB readers either--just feedback how I find using them:D

Also bear in mind im in a better position than a lot of you to judge different speakers--because during the year I work through all sorts of different speakers OUT ON THE ROAD belonging to various DJs when im sharing an evening with them--not used Mackie yet though---and looking forward to trying Steves new Class D in April--hopefully ?

CRAZY K

[One Vision]

With the class-d speakers what amps do they tend to recommend, or what are people using?

Hya mate yeh that may be true but at the end of the day its about quality sound, clarity at high power.
Whats the point in spending allot of money on expensive CD/mp3 players and mixing gear if the resulting sound is coming out of under par speaker?
The fella that I mix for on many occasions has the UL15`s and no matter how hard you drive them the clarity is just amazing especially when you stick on something like children the acoustics are so clear and with plenty of clear thumping bass and thats without the bass bins being used.
Set the bins up and just run the ULs as mid and top only on separate amp and your in another world again, plus with running at 8ohms they are hardly breaking a sweat so are gonna last.

[Excalibur]

With the class-d speakers what amps do they tend to recommend, or what are people using?

Steve uses Yamaha. Class-D used to sell C-mark ( Which I rate highly), and are now selling KAM ( which is so far very good), among others.


Hmmm what you guys dont realise is---

The UL15s are in the words of a Pro Disco Shop I use--for Bands use rather than discos.

I have used them when working with a band and they are fine but I dont want the heavier, louder speaker that the UL15 is--

I want portability and ability to mix and match--which I get.

I dont find the comments about Pro 15s offensive--they are just not credible.

Im not a power mad entertainer needing to blow my audiences heads off--just have a reasonable sound they can appreciate and hear the vocals clearly--which is what I get.

For my job--thats all I need so im happy with what I have.

Vectis Vibe has the same set up as me so no doubt he will tell you how he finds the Peaveys sounding.

Sure they might not be the very best sound around but they have a reputation--especially with hard working bands--for long term reliability over a very very long time combined with a reasonable sound--which back on thread is what we all probably want in the long term.

I dont have a bias for any speakers or USB readers either--just feedback how I find using them:D

Also bear in mind im in a better position than a lot of you to judge different speakers--because during the year I work through all sorts of different speakers OUT ON THE ROAD belonging to various DJs when im sharing an evening with them--not used Mackie yet though---and looking forward to trying Steves new Class D in April--hopefully ?

CRAZY K

Crazy, if you don't mind me saying, you are slightly different to most of us on here, and your reasons for using the Pro's are perfectly valid. I have heard good and bad reports of them, but having not heard them I could not comment. I will say that I have a pair of Eurosys 3's which have been outstanding servants for me. I cannot bear to sell them, and recently found I could still find a use for them with my second rig when needed. :D The only reason for retiring them was that their power rating was lower than the Class-D's, and now all my speakers are interchangeable. ;)

Steve's new Class-D's appear to be under consideration, no matter what he says. ;) :D :D I keep telling him which ones will suit him, but will he listen? :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

[CRAZY K]

Steve uses Yamaha. Class-D used to sell C-mark ( Which I rate highly), and are now selling KAM ( which is so far very good), among others.



Crazy, if you don't mind me saying, you are slightly different to most of us on here, and your reasons for using the Pro's are perfectly valid. I have heard good and bad reports of them, but having not heard them I could not comment. I will say that I have a pair of Eurosys 3's which have been outstanding servants for me. I cannot bear to sell them, and recently found I could still find a use for them with my second rig when needed. :D The only reason for retiring them was that their power rating was lower than the Class-D's, and now all my speakers are interchangeable. ;)

Steve's new Class-D's appear to be under consideration, no matter what he says. ;) :D :D I keep telling him which ones will suit him, but will he listen? :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

Thats fine, ive heard the Pro 15s---in fact I do every week--and they sound ok:D

Yes persuade Steve to get the big Class Ds then I can blow peoples heads off in April :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[JAMdisco]

Here you go JD, two cabs, one amp, 1.2K, £650 and as much bass as you can ever need.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Citronic-Ultima-PRO-2000-Amplifier-2-x-1000W-PA-DJ_W0QQitemZ180200769910QQihZ008QQcategoryZ68247QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-d-CD215SP-1300watt-speakers-DJ-Groups-Install_W0QQitemZ170200130234QQihZ007QQcategoryZ69 967QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Nice system but I think I'd prefer seperate cabs and subs (so I can break it down for smaller venues). Hopefully my revised budget is going to be in the region of £1000 so...
2 x CD15SP - 350W RMS £249
2 x CD15NP - 650W RMS £349
1 x KAM KXR1000 - 340W RMS £199 for tops
1 x KAM KXR1500 - 450W RMS £245 for subs

Total = 1580W £1,042

I think I need to go down to Mansfield and check them out, they open on Sundays?

[Excalibur]

Nice system but I think I'd prefer seperate cabs and subs (so I can break it down for smaller venues). Hopefully my revised budget is going to be in the region of £1000 so...
2 x CD15SP - 350W RMS £249
2 x CD15NP - 650W RMS £349
1 x KAM KXR1000 - 340W RMS £199 for tops
1 x KAM KXR1500 - 450W RMS £245 for subs

Total = 1580W £1,042

I think I need to go down to Mansfield and check them out, they open on Sundays?

No, but turn up at mine as arranged, and you can hear ( almost )that exact rig up in action! Smaller subs, bigger top amp. ;) :D :D

[JAMdisco]

Will do, looking forward to it.

[Corabar Steve]

The thread is about going from active Mackie to passive class D anyway.
OK I'll shut up on the subject.

--and looking forward to trying Steves new Class D in April--hopefully ?

CRAZY KYou shall


Steve's new Class-D's appear to be under consideration, no matter what he says. ;) :D :D I keep telling him which ones will suit him, but will he listen? :confused: :confused: :D :D :D

No they're not. I am replacing like for like, just haven't got round to it yet. (& having done 3 gigs with passive Mackies, I can categorically state we won't be getting any more of them)

[JAMdisco]

No they're not. I am replacing like for like, just haven't got round to it yet. (& having done 3 gigs with passive Mackies, I can categorically state we won't be getting any more of them)

What is it that the Mackies lack? Is it bass, warmth (depth)??

I will be checking out Peter's (Excalibur) Class D's on Sunday. I might take my mackies so we can do a like-for-like comparison. I'll try to be as un-biased on my findings and I'm sure you'll all hear about it on here on Monday.

[Corabar Steve]

What is it that the Mackies lack? Is it bass, warmth (depth)??
Yes.

[Excalibur]

I will be checking out Peter's (Excalibur) Class D's on Sunday. I might take my mackies so we can do a like-for-like comparison. I'll try to be as un-biased on my findings and I'm sure you'll all hear about it on here on Monday.

Please do, as that would seem to be an integral part of the test. I have sorted out a local venue, where I have performed before. We can have the system you requested, plus my 215's for comparison, you bring your lappy and excuse for a mixer( If it doesn't look as if it could land the space shuttle, you can't really call it a mixer, can you? ) for playout, and we should be ok.

Watch this space for the full unexpurgated review of the proceedings, and if it goes against the Class-D's then we shall not refrain from saying so!!:D

Steve, the CD12SP's would be a good idea, they're about as big as 158's.;) :D

[pagan_flame]

Now I have just gone in the other direction; I have dumped all my old Peavey speakers and an amp, now running fully active with a dB Technologies 15" powered sub underneath my Mackie SRM 450's.

Have yet to try them as this month has been strangely gig-free, but I do have a marquee gig Saturday week to try them out (29th). So far, it would seem that the one sub is more than a replacement for the Peaveys...

... but I have kept a power amp and a pair of Class D 15"'s just in case! :D

£700 for a pair of 450's plus the sub? You can't find a rig like that on the 'Bay for anything like that money, I'd have an SWA already if you could!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

What is it that the Mackies lack? Is it bass, warmth (depth)??

I will be checking out Peter's (Excalibur) Class D's on Sunday. I might take my mackies so we can do a like-for-like comparison. I'll try to be as un-biased on my findings and I'm sure you'll all hear about it on here on Monday.

How can you do a like for like comparison when you are using actives against passives. To do like for like, you surely must need to use the same mixer and amp, which you can't when comparing the two.

[Excalibur]

How can you do a like for like comparison when you are using actives against passives. To do like for like, you surely must need to use the same mixer and amp, which you can't when comparing the two.

I see what you mean, the phrase like for like is technically inaccurate, I think Justin simply meant different systems in like for like surroundings, so that some form of an objective test ( which will of course be subjective, since we shall only have our ears as test gear ) would be possible. . While you are undoubtedly correct Darren, I'm sure you know what Justin meant. Technically, The Mackies ought to have the edge, since being active, they should be matched perfectly to the amps used. The 15" drivers in the Class-D's should offset this to a degree, so an interesting trial I hope. :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

That's the point though, sound is subjective, so how can you have a fair comparison with one active pair and one passive pair and an amp. Which ever one you think is better will only be your opinion and can't be a really fair opinion based on what you are using.

Technically and on paper, the SPL and just about everything else will be better on the Mackies, but if you like a bit more bass (as Steve does) then the Class Ds might 'sound' better to you. Does that mean they are better speakers? Check out the dispersion of both sets. I bet you can't can't hear vocals as clearly on the Class Ds by standing 180 degrees, as you would on the Mackies for example.

But yes, I do know what Justin meant. :sj:

[JAMdisco]

I did mean using the same set up (i.e. all mine or all Peters equipment) then swapping the speakers and listening to the difference. I know amps can make a huge difference but it will give us a pretty good idea.


I bet you can't can't hear vocals as clearly on the Class Ds by standing 180 degrees, as you would on the Mackies for example.

Why would you want to hear vocals at 180 degrees? Surely the dance floor area is where it counts most.

Anyway - will let you all know.

[Excalibur]

That's the point though, sound is subjective, so how can you have a fair comparison with one active pair and one passive pair and an amp. Which ever one you think is better will only be your opinion and can't be a really fair opinion based on what you are using.
Careful there Darren. Anyone of a suspicious and sensitive nature might read that as if you were saying that Justin and I would not give a fair account of our findings. ;) Neither of us is saying that our findings will be published as a learned treatise with the definitive answer to the question Class-D passive vs Mackie Active. Simply that it will be the views of two users on this trial, and don't forget that if we disagree totally on findings, there will be two accounts published, so editorial freedom guaranteed. :D :D

This is not an admission of failure, but I cannot see how (given the similarity in power ratings, and having matched amps/speakers in the Mackies ) there will be any increase in sound level from the Class-D's, and as for sound quality, well we can only wait and see. :confused:




Technically and on paper, the SPL and just about everything else will be better on the Mackies, but if you like a bit more bass (as Steve does) then the Class Ds might 'sound' better to you. Does that mean they are better speakers?

No, it means the Class-D's have 15" drivers. ;) :D



Check out the dispersion of both sets. I bet you can't can't hear vocals as clearly on the Class Ds by standing 180 degrees, as you would on the Mackies for example.

No idea, but this test will be included in the findings. :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Why would you want to hear vocals at 180 degrees? Surely the dance floor area is where it counts most.



So, if they existed, you buy speakers that just projected forwards?

What happens when people are doing speeches? What happens when you make announcements?

[JAMdisco]

So, if they existed, you buy speakers that just projected forwards?

If it were a choice between the ones that projected backwards, then, yes! :p


What happens when people are doing speeches? What happens when you make announcements?

I'm sure when the speeches are being done (hopefully) people will be a little quieter as they will be listening, also, there would probably be no music either.

[CRAZY K]

So, if they existed, you buy speakers that just projected forwards?

What happens when people are doing speeches? What happens when you make announcements?

Angle the speakers on the poles or stands as required.

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry, but if you can get speakers that have very wide dispersion, then those last two posts are null and void.

[Corabar Steve]

Don't void have a wide dispersion then? I've not heard of null, are they any good?

[CRAZY K]

Don't void have a wide dispersion then? I've not heard of null, are they any good?

Well on that basis if your class Ds arent 180 degrees dispersion Steve Ill have to pull out of that gig were doing together next month on the basis that not everyone will hear me.

:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[Corabar Steve]

Whoosh!

[PropellerHeadCase]

That might be even funnier than your original post, Steve.

[Corabar Steve]

I try :sj:

[colint]

So why is it then, that on the Class D web site they quote figures at 8 & 4 ohms for both the speakers AND amps???

Anyone offering £1000 for my Mackies and I'll stick em on DJ Bids.


I'm not a lover of either Mackie speakers or active speaker systems, but why on earth would you want to do this? I think this is a step backwards! stick with what you have!

[Excalibur]

I'm not a lover of either Mackie speakers or active speaker systems, but why on earth would you want to do this? I think this is a step backwards! stick with what you have!

Ssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh ! Let the lad find out on Sunday. ;) :D At least we will have some side by side comparisons for the Mackie vs Class-D debate.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But how can they be a fair comparison when one is active and the other isn't? :sofa:

You want to try some passive Mackies against the Class Ds - that would be a fair comparison.

[Corabar Steve]

I have, no contest.

[colint]

The total lack of a compression driver on the class d's would be a major concern to me, looking at the spec I would expect the class d system to be lacking in both lower bass and clarity!

[Corabar Steve]

But until you hear them........

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have, no contest.

But that's your opinion Steve and maybe not others. Just because a cab has more bass doesn't make it better.

[Corabar Steve]

Why do you keep bringing up the bass?

It's just an overall better sound, nice, clear & warm.

I've noticed things through ours that I've only ever heard on headphones before.

[Excalibur]

The total lack of a compression driver on the class d's would be a major concern to me, looking at the spec I would expect the class d system to be lacking in both lower bass and clarity!

Then look again Sir. The ones referred to in the later part of the post and below have compression drivers, and as for lack of Bass, that is never a problem! ;)

Enough Bass.
http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=930
More than enough Bass
http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=739
Earth moving Bass, and twice the price of mine
http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=847


But how can they be a fair comparison when one is active and the other isn't? :sofa:

You want to try some passive Mackies against the Class Ds - that would be a fair comparison.

Darren, I'm baffled by this, since being active must load the dice in favour of the Mackies, which would seem to be what every non Class-D user/afficionado wants/expects to happen. If the Mackie Actives blow the passive Class-D's away, so be it. Why is everybody unable to wait for the results before giving their verdicts? :confused:

[colint]

Sorry still not convinced! I don't see how any company can produce a complete speaker systen for the same price as a pair of reasonable price 15" drivers!

and I thought the post was about these:

http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=543

[colint]

from the class d site!

An amazingly powerful speaker system, designed by class d for any application and venue. Consisting of a 2 - 15” bass reflex bins and 2 - 15” drivers with 3 piezo tweeters, giving an amazing 1400 watts Rms at 8 Ohms 2800watts at 4 Ohms per system, This system must be the best on the market for all round performance and value for money.

The CD 15158 gives out a clear crisp top end due to the 2 x 15” Drivers with piezo tweeters. Each speaker is rated at 350 watts RMS total RMS per pair 700 watts at 8 Ohms 1400watts at 4 Ohms

With a punchy thunderous bottom end that only a top quality bass reflex 15” driver can handle. Each bass reflex bin is 350 watts RMS at 8 Ohms total RMS per pair 700 watts at 8 Ohms. That’s an amazing 2800 watts RMS at 4 Ohms per system giving a peak power of 5000 watts. You can put these along side any top class speaker cab at 3 to 4 times its value, and you won’t know the difference.

now try and work it all out!

[Excalibur]

Sorry still not convinced! I don't see how any company can produce a complete speaker systen for the same price as a pair of reasonable price 15" drivers!

The reason given is that Class-D are designers, importers, and sellers of the product, thus cutting out the middlemen, who inflate prices. May be right, may be wrong.

And sorry to labour this point, which Steve puts so eloquently so often, but:

Have you heard them? Some of us are using them week in week out, and do you hear us saying we wish we'd never clapped eyes on the things? I haven't seen a bad report on them by a person who has used them. I'm sure they must exist, but on here alone, we have more than one satisfied customer. Steve is apparently going to replace his stolen ones with the same model, and won't even upgrade in the same make ( no matter how much I entreat him ) . I'm getting quite cheesed with people telling me that what I and others are hearing every week is not in fact right!:bang: :bang:

[Excalibur]

from the class d site!

An amazingly powerful speaker system, designed by class d for any application and venue. Consisting of a 2 - 15” bass reflex bins and 2 - 15” drivers with 3 piezo tweeters, giving an amazing 1400 watts Rms at 8 Ohms 2800watts at 4 Ohms per system, This system must be the best on the market for all round performance and value for money.

The CD 15158 gives out a clear crisp top end due to the 2 x 15” Drivers with piezo tweeters. Each speaker is rated at 350 watts RMS total RMS per pair 700 watts at 8 Ohms 1400watts at 4 Ohms

With a punchy thunderous bottom end that only a top quality bass reflex 15” driver can handle. Each bass reflex bin is 350 watts RMS at 8 Ohms total RMS per pair 700 watts at 8 Ohms. That’s an amazing 2800 watts RMS at 4 Ohms per system giving a peak power of 5000 watts. You can put these along side any top class speaker cab at 3 to 4 times its value, and you won’t know the difference.

now try and work it all out!

I can't! I take little notice of their website blurb, as it's notoriously purple prose!

[One Vision]

I tell you what I am liking the look of these. :eek:

JAC15 500W Audio Music System 4 Bands Disco DJ equipment
£249.00

http://www.class-d.com/ThumbnailGenerator/Default.aspx?Big=True&File=/admin/products/images/3c14551a-4fb8-4608-8ec4-0d82f818abc7.jpg&width=360&height=500


15' 2-way speaker delivering 500 watts continuous and 1400 watts peak power, in a high density polypropylene moulded composite cabinet, giving light weight with no compromise on stength.
Designed by Class D to be the flagship of their range aiming to blow all other makes of 15' speakers out of the water. (THESE CABS ARE AWESOME)High clarity top end with a thunderous bottom end gives these cabs a rating on their own. Got to be heard to be believed, designed to excel as a live speaker, suitable for any kind of venue large or small.
Class d have spent 5 years in the development of its products and all involved are proud of this one.

Product Description

Model Number: JAC 15
Brand Name: Class-D

Specifications:
1) RMS power: 500W
2) Impedance: 8 Ohm

3) 1.75' Frequency horn
4) Sensitivity (1W, 1M): 98dB
5) Frequency response: 45Hz - 20kHz
6) Maximum SPL: 122dB
7) Nominal Coverage (H x V): 90 x 60o
8) Components: 15' woofer,

9) 76oz Magnet

10) Cast Aluminum chassis

11) 3' Voice coil
12) Protection: independent overload protection
13) Connections: 'Speakon'
14) Built-in crossover and circuit protection have been integrated into the design

15) Weight 21Kg

Features:
1) Two-way speaker
2) Mounted on a tripod or suspended from a wall or ceiling using the
embedded nuts
3) Bass driver is protected with metallic grille
4) Models of the same cabinets can also be stacked

5) Rubber feet included for stacking

6) Speakon connections included
7) Enclosure: compact polypropylene cabinet, bar handles, steel grille, 35mm stand/pole mount, two flying points on top, rubber feet.


Price Per Pair
15 Cast Chassis
1' Compression driver
Integral pole adaptor
inbuilt crossover
Bar Handle
500W 8 ohns

[colint]

I never said it's not right? for an example I'm really into vintage pro audio systems (cos I also am vintage) and I've just bought a martin audio FR3 system thats about 25 years old, it has all the original drivers and sounds as good as most of the systems avalable nowdays

would the class d system be up to this (or anywhere near this) in 25 years time?

The reason I say this is to get back on topic it's not just about quality it's also how long these are going to last? would they be a better buy than the makies?
and your right I havn't heard them!

over the last 35 years I have been lucky enough to own speaker's and equipment from most of the top makers (I worked for a sound company so got good deals)
of all the equipment I've owned the only thing that ever let me down was a pair of Roger squire speakers that were loaded with cheap drivers and a fal amplifier (both about 30 years ago) this happened at about 11:45 on new years eve! not good ever since then I've used branded quality equipment and never had a problem!

and no I'm not putting the class d stuff down! (even Jbl had to start somewhere)
just trying to be objective!

[Excalibur]

Karl, I haven't heard any of the plastic ones running, so can only say, listen before you buy.


Iwould the class d system be up to this (or anywhere near this) in 25 years time?! No idea, but how many others will be? :confused:



The reason I say this is to get back on topic it's not just about quality it's also how long these are going to last? would they be a better buy than the makies?
and your right I havn't heard them!! I haven't heard Mackies, so I refrain from passing judgment



over the last 35 years I have been lucky enough to own speaker's and equipment from most of the top makers (I worked for a sound company so got good deals)
of all the equipment I've owned the only thing that ever let me down was a pair of Roger squire speakers that were loaded with cheap drivers and a fal amplifier (both about 30 years ago) this happened at about 11:45 on new years eve! not good ever since then I've used branded quality equipment and never had a problem!!

And I've had good service from RSC and FAL ( Examples of which are appearing on ebay as we speak )



and no I'm not putting the class d stuff down! (even Jbl had to start somewhere)
just trying to be objective!

Surely objective involves listening to the things first? :confused:

[Jaggiebunnett]

Right!

I think it's time to upgrade / change my Mackie PA system.
Currently have 1 x SWA1501 sub, 2 x SRM450 tops producing a max total of 1400W. Obviously I want a similar output but am inclined to go with (wait for it Peter (Excalibur) CLASS D :eek: )


Final question - Does anyone think this would be a backward move and should I stay with the Mackies.
just add another SWA1501 sub then you will have an awesome sound system:D .
Clas D is good regular gear I hear but Mackie is of higher Quality so maybe you would be stepping back by going ahead.:eek:

[One Vision]

That being the problem as I live in Cornwall :(
Saying that it would cost the same as delivery to go up and check them out and bring home. :D

[Tom]

Road trip.

[colint]

Karl, I haven't heard any of the plastic ones running, so can only say, listen before you buy.

No idea, but how many others will be? :confused:

I haven't heard Mackies, so I refrain from passing judgment



And I've had good service from RSC and FAL ( Examples of which are appearing on ebay as we speak )



Surely objective involves listening to the things first? :confused:

I'm at plasa in sept so will look them up! and also keep an open mind?

forgot to mention the other thing that let me down was a denon cd system Think it was a dn2000 (but I could be wrong) it was the first twin I saw in the shop and broke down constantly! so mabe I'm wrong and your right?

[One Vision]

Looks like class-d have altered their website as they are answering some of my questions or I just missed it before.
I notice that the bass bins they do have the cast alloy 15' Eminence Kapper drivers fitted.
They are not cheap drivers £60-70 I think not that far of the black widows in the Peaveys.
I have to say am starting to warm to them :eek:

[colint]

Looks like class-d have altered their website as they are answering some of my questions or I just missed it before.
I notice that the bass bins they do have the cast alloy 15' Eminence Kapper drivers fitted.
They are not cheap drivers £60-70 I think not that far of the black widows in the Peaveys.
I have to say am starting to warm to them :eek:

Karl don't take in all you read on their site!

the kappa driver is recomended for a vented/sealed cab and not a scoop/horn
(assuming you were looking at the cd 15p) and the kappa is rated at 450watts rms not 650watts rms as on the class d site

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Why do you keep bringing up the bass?


Becasue that's what you said to me when you got them and also you said the dispersion was a lot better on the Mackies or have you conveniently forgotten that?




Darren, I'm baffled by this, since being active must load the dice in favour of the Mackies, which would seem to be what every non Class-D user/afficionado wants/expects to happen. If the Mackie Actives blow the passive Class-D's away, so be it. Why is everybody unable to wait for the results before giving their verdicts? :confused:

I'm not giving a verdict at all. Where in my posts have you seen that? I am simply saying it is not a proper comparison using active speakers against passives and an amp. What exactly are you comparing?

[One Vision]

Karl don't take in all you read on their site!

the kappa driver is recomended for a vented/sealed cab and not a scoop/horn
(assuming you were looking at the cd 15p) and the kappa is rated at 450watts rms not 650watts rms as on the class d site

Surely they cant bluff this as they are quoting 650 rms @ 8ohms?
I know allot blow their products up by using pmpo ratings rather than the true rms.

[One Vision]

Just had a look and they are the LF version which are

Kappa 15LF
Size: 15"
Power Rating: 600W RMS
Frequency Res: 35-3kHz
Sensitivity: 101db
Impedance: 8 ohms
Voice Coil: 3" edge wound
Resonant Frequency: 35 Hz
Magnet Weight: 95 oz.

Specs
BUY NOW!
$139.99

[Twinspin]

If you changed to class d from mackie thats a definite downgrade in system. If you can get to one of my gigs one night come and have a listen to my RCF active rig. Thats an upgrade from Mackie.

ART 322A tops / ART 705 active subs (800w RMS) very powerful system and sounds great.

even have a look at a bigger HK Audio system Justin. like an elias or something. HK Audio are awesome too!

I wouldnt swap the active mackies for Class D that would be a mistake. If you wanted more power i would get another swa-1501 again.

[One Vision]

The ART 322A seem a bit pricey and not that much difference over the Mackies??

For the money am still liking the class-d JAC15 500W £249.00

[Corabar Steve]

Don't touch any of the Class D plastic ranges (JAC etc),the sound isn't a patch on the CD or SP ranges.

[Excalibur]

Don't touch any of the Class D plastic ranges (JAC etc),the sound isn't a patch on the CD or SP ranges.

I have said elsewhere that some of the Class--D lads are like me, not lovers of plastic speakers. Steve, have you heard these, cos I havent?

If you want real bass without subs, these are the boys. ;) ;) :D :D

http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=847

I have heard them, and they make these which I have, http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=739 sound like a set of tops without the subs!!

[Corabar Steve]

I've heard one set of JACs (not sure of the exact model) horrible is not a good enough word for the sound & I've heard of other DJs who have bought them & either sent them back or swapped for CD 12 or 15s

[Tom]

The way i see it is if you can buy the parts cheap then i guess you can sell the overall product cheap.

I know that to get the best sound from a speaker it has to have a well designed cab. It doesnt take to much time to buy a branded speaker cab, take out the driver and have a look inside to see how they get the speaker to sound so good.

Anyway.

I have just noticed that Class-D are now selling 2.4k of bass for £599.99 Link (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=709)

From what i can tell it looks like they have used the same cabinet design form the others and just placed it a larger speaker with a bigger output.

Dont know why i just said that but there you go anyway.

I think that for anyone to actually make a comment about these speakers they should really be heard first. Personally i would love to hear a pair as so many people say there good and some not so good.

[Excalibur]

The way i see it is if you can buy the parts cheap then i guess you can sell the overall product cheap.

I know that to get the best sound from a speaker it has to have a well designed cab. It doesnt take to much time to buy a branded speaker cab, take out the driver and have a look inside to see how they get the speaker to sound so good.

Anyway.

I have just noticed that Class-D are now selling 2.4k of bass for £599.99 Link (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=709)

From what i can tell it looks like they have used the same cabinet design form the others and just placed it a larger speaker with a bigger output.

Dont know why i just said that but there you go anyway.

I think that for anyone to actually make a comment about these speakers they should really be heard first. Personally i would love to hear a pair as so many people say there good and some not so good.

Tom, the lads at Class-D actually design everything, there's no just borrowing something and shoving it in a box. They're actually people who have been in the industry for years, not just resellers of somebody else's kit.

Steve, thanks for that, curious how the plastic ones can be so far off target:confused:

[Twinspin]

having owning the mackie srm450 and the 322a rcf cabs the rcf are a lot better on terms of clarity.

[CRAZY K]

Tom, the lads at Class-D actually design everything, there's no just borrowing something and shoving it in a box. They're actually people who have been in the industry for years, not just resellers of somebody else's kit.

Steve, thanks for that, curious how the plastic ones can be so far off target:confused:

Perhaps ask the people who designed them--they are on the end of a telephone:D

If Steve is not recommending a Class D product--theres a problem.

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Perhaps ask the people who designed them--they are on the end of a telephone:D

I'm sure I say that every time, I certainly seem to remember typing it a lot!:bang: :bang:



If Steve is not recommending a Class D product--theres a problem.

CRAZY K


Agreed.

[One Vision]

Are the actual cabinets on some of the Class-D models the same as Cerwin Vega cabinets?
They certainly look the same???

Cerwin Vega Intense INT-252
http://i4.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/db/45/ab85_1.JPG


Class-D CD215SP
http://my.frooition.com/070460/images/CD215SP-PAIR.jpg

[Corabar Steve]

Different handles :sj:

[One Vision]

:clap: Maybe I should buy them class-d and stick some Vega badges on, I can stay in the closet then

[One Vision]

Bit of an update on the class-d Jack15s.
Received this email this evening.

Hi Karl.
We have a new cab for the Jac15 arrived (see attachment photo's) Thursday they are taking over from our Jac15 using an upgraded 15" driver and HF driver they are rated at 500watts rms 1000watts peak/max each speakers and are £249.00 a pair.
We have them in stock so give us a ring on 01623654080 for more details.

[Excalibur]

OK folks, I know you're dying to hear the outcome, so if you're sitting comfortably, then I'll begin. At great expense, I secured the use of a luxury venue, with all mod cons. Yeah right!;) ;) See picture in gallery. :D

First up, we must acknowledge a truth, which was never in doubt. Yes the two systems are different. We simply compared them as best we could, side by side. Don't ask which setups we ran, because we tried every possible permutation of my gear possible, bar one. With my mixer, we could run the two systems together or singly as we wished.

The initial conclusions were that the Mackies were noticeably brighter sounding, with a very tight bass. The Class-D rigs were bassier, probably due to to the 15" drivers throughout, perhaps having 12" in the tops might have brought them closer. whatever we did, we could not find any really significant advantages in either system, and they sounded far closer than the relative price tags. Sound levels were very similar, and as far as the ear could tell, the clarity and level of sound laterally, as remarked on by Darren, was very similar. Basically, in my opinion, (and Justin will put his views soon I'm sure) the result was a score draw. Each of us was really impressed with the others system.
Then came the revelation. Justin wanted to check his playout system with my PA, to check that it would perform satisfactorily, in case his Mackies were masking any deficiencies in it, especially since attention had been drawn to the cost of single sound cards, versus his mixer containing two at the same price virtually. I think he was a little worried. We got everything joined up,in the configuration Justin most wanted to hear, and he pressed the buttons on his laptop. My system came alive, and probably had the nicest sound of anything we had used previously. :eek: :eek: :D I have absolutely no idea why this should be, other than my EQ settings were all flat on purpose, and his might have been set a little brighter. :confused: Justin was one happy little bunny, and now had enough information to decide which direction he wished to go in concerning this matter. I was a bit cheesed how his playout system sounded better than mine, but that's life!

A trip to Mansfield now appears to be on the cards.;) :D

[Tony Scott]

Are the actual cabinets on some of the Class-D models the same as Cerwin Vega cabinets?
They certainly look the same???

Cerwin Vega Intense INT-252
http://i4.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/db/45/ab85_1.JPG


Class-D CD215SP
http://my.frooition.com/070460/images/CD215SP-PAIR.jpg

I think the Vegas are 'Birch Ply' cabs, not sure that the 'Class D's' are though, but no one needs to know! :D

[JAMdisco]

Yep, we certainly had interesting results. I won't go too much into depth as I think Peters excellent report covers it all. I will stress however, that I was a little worried that my Mackies may have been masking my Newmark mixer's "lack of quality", but Peters Class D's certainly sounded as good as my Mackies through my playout setup. This has convinced me that I will DEFINATELY parting with the Mackies and investing in some Class D's.

I truly cannot believe that 'budget' speakers can match the 'quality' of the Mackies, hearing is definately believing. I think the same set up as peters with the addition of 12" tops will produce a truly awesome sound.

I will definately be off to Mansfield probably a week on Saturday to invest in (what I believe) will be an amazing sound system.

Just to conclude, sound systems need not to be expensive to sound amazing and I now resign from the 'badge snobbery' club that I was once a dedicated member of:Embarassed: and anyone wishing to purchase a new system, just make sure you listen before you buy, you never know, you may be pleasantly surprised, as I was:D

Just like to say a quick thanks to Peter for taking the time to let me try out his set up.

[Shaun]

It's funny how the waft of gear snobbery permeates in the air whenever speakers and gear is mentioned...lol.

At the end of the day...if you like the sound your speakers make, if they meet your needs, and you have backup (just in case) does it really matter what you use?.

Fair-play to the skytec users, the class D users, the mackie and rcf users. Despite being a Mackie user, they don't produce the the best sound I've had from a speaker (a cheap budget brand beats my mackies hands down). Specification wise they might be superiour but it all comes down to preference and the kind of sound you're looking for.

I don't buy into the 'willy waving' mentality. Choose the speaker that best fits the sound you want and forget about the badge on the front. ;)

[Corabar Steve]

:claphands: Hear hear!

[Excalibur]

:claphands: Hear hear!

Spelt correctly too, well said that man! ;) :D :D

[Corabar Steve]

Oh yes! "Here here" bugs the hell out of me http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1823.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[Paul James Promotions]

Here here

:sofa:

:D

[Excalibur]

Here here

:sofa:

:D

Where? Where? :confused:

[theoloyla]

One other factor to bear in mind (and not saying anything for or against the brands mentioned) is reliability and durability. You need a speaker that will consistently provide a good quality sound every at every gig for years and that will withstand the physical thumps and knocks of being lugged in and out of vans and gigs plus the occasional loud sound caused by accidents like feedback or someone dropping the mike etc. In the case of my Deltec Minibins - I bought them in 1976 and they never let me down. I've now had them refurbished and they are better than ever.

[Corabar Steve]

Here here

:sofa:

:D

http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-11236.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)


One other factor to bear in mind (and not saying anything for or against the brands mentioned) is reliability and durability. You need a speaker that will consistently provide a good quality sound every at every gig for years and that will withstand the physical thumps and knocks of being lugged in and out of vans and gigs plus the occasional loud sound caused by accidents like feedback or someone dropping the mike etc. In the case of my Deltec Minibins - I bought them in 1976 and they never let me down. I've now had them refurbished and they are better than ever.

Well I had my Class Ds for over a year 2 - 3 gigs a week & they were still sounding good. Shame I'll never know how long they'll actually last.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well I had my Class Ds for over a year 2 - 3 gigs a week & they were still sounding good.

And so they should after that amount of time!

[Excalibur]

http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-11236.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)



Well I had my Class Ds for over a year 2 - 3 gigs a week & they were still sounding good. Shame I'll never know how long they'll actually last.

Never mind, Justin and I will keep you updated. :D

[CRAZY K]

One other factor to bear in mind (and not saying anything for or against the brands mentioned) is reliability and durability. You need a speaker that will consistently provide a good quality sound every at every gig for years and that will withstand the physical thumps and knocks of being lugged in and out of vans and gigs plus the occasional loud sound caused by accidents like feedback or someone dropping the mike etc. In the case of my Deltec Minibins - I bought them in 1976 and they never let me down. I've now had them refurbished and they are better than ever.

Good point--- I was going to mention that--how long is the warranty?

I got 5 yrs with Peavey-:D

CRAZY K

[JAMdisco]

I know it's not really a get out clause, but at the price of the Class D's, it's not exactly going to break the bank if you need to replace them. And the component parts are very inexpensive too. I'm all for quality at an affordable price which, IMO is what you get with the Class D's.

[JAMdisco]

Right, after some serious consideration I have decided to go for this (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=543) system with this (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=722) amp. (will this be 4 ohms if I run each side from the amp to the sub, then link from sub to top - i.e. 1500W) I will purchase these (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=621) at a future date which will hopefully give a brighter sound when used altogether and also gives me multiple rig options. If my sums are correct they should all fit in my estate car.

[Corabar Steve]

And so they should after that amount of time!My point being that I've known lesser brands (also precieved as budget brands) that haven't


Right, after some serious consideration I have decided to go for this (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=543) system with this (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=722) amp. (will this be 4 ohms if I run each side from the amp to the sub, then link from sub to top - i.e. 1500W) I will purchase these (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=621) at a future date which will hopefully give a brighter sound when used altogether and also gives me multiple rig options. If my sums are correct they should all fit in my estate car.

Be sure to let us know how you get on with them.

[Excalibur]

Right, after some serious consideration I have decided to go for this (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=543) system with this (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=722) amp. (will this be 4 ohms if I run each side from the amp to the sub, then link from sub to top - i.e. 1500W) I will purchase these (http://www.class-d.com/Product.aspx?PRO=621) at a future date which will hopefully give a brighter sound when used altogether and also gives me multiple rig options. If my sums are correct they should all fit in my estate car.

In order.
Oh yes, that's the ninth final choice you've made so far!:p
No, if you use the crossover, yes if you do it in reverse. I thought I explained that.;) :D
No it will never fit in the Escort, if you get six cabs.:p :eek:

BTW, I'd go this way first if you're so minded, same amp.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-D-CD15N12SP-1200watt-speaker-system-DJ-PA_W0QQitemZ380008136540QQihZ025QQcategoryZ69967QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

But I'd advise this instead, as a starting point, with a KXR2000 Amp, or equivalent. 1.5Kw, two boxes, one amp, plenty of Bass.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-d-CD215SP-1300watt-speakers-DJ-Groups-Install_W0QQitemZ380008503151QQihZ025QQcategoryZ69 967QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

With the older 215's as the lower cost option.

Shall we start a book on what he ends up buying? :confused: ;) :D :D

I can see us going to Mansfield in my van now, to get it all in!!





Be sure to let us know how you get on with them.

He will Steve, just try and stop him!! :D

[JAMdisco]

In order.
Oh yes, that's the ninth final choice you've made so far!:p

Well it's a lot of money to me and I want to make sure I'm making the right choice!!!


No, if you use the crossover, yes if you do it in reverse. I thought I explained that.;) :D

Yes you did, I remember now, so amp into top then into sub?


No it will never fit in the Escort, if you get six cabs.:p :eek:

I reckon it will, providing the CD158's stand up rather than laying them down! I'm awaiting a response from Class D on the sizes of the CD158's. They should be a little smaller than the SP158's which, although would stand up in the back, couldn't get past the small lip on the rear of the roof.


BTW, I'd go this way first if you're so minded, same amp.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-D-CD15N12SP-1200watt-speaker-system-DJ-PA_W0QQitemZ380008136540QQihZ025QQcategoryZ69967QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

I'd rather go down the 15" top route to start with. More bass, and if I ever decide to use them on their own they'll pack more punch.


But I'd advise this instead, as a starting point, with a KXR2000 Amp, or equivalent. 1.5Kw, two boxes, one amp, plenty of Bass.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Class-d-CD215SP-1300watt-speakers-DJ-Groups-Install_W0QQitemZ380008503151QQihZ025QQcategoryZ69 967QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

With the older 215's as the lower cost option.

Not really an option as I want the capability of splitting the system and there's no easy way to raise them up (I don't want to put them on tables really)


Shall we start a book on what he ends up buying? :confused: ;) :D :D

I think this thread has already turned into a respectably sized novel:p


I can see us going to Mansfield in my van now, to get it all in!!

That's all very well but are you gonna roadie for me all the time then.
Basically if I can't bring it back in the car there's no point in buying it. I'm not parting with any cash until I know for sure it'll fit!

And finally, yes I will be letting you know how I get on and how it performs at the first gig (probably Sat 5th April - the same day I'll be buying:eek: )

[JAMdisco]

Just in case you missed it in the temp forum, I've finally made the move from Mackie to Class D's, and I know i've made the right choice!

Went down to Mansfield and picked Peter (Excalibur) on the way on Wed afternoon.

I'm not 'dissing' mackie as I have been a loyal follower for a long time and we had a great sound when I was in my 5 piece rock group using 2xSRM450's (tops) & 2xSWA1501's (subs).

The guy who bought mine wanted to hear them so I asked the Class-D guys if we could 'borrow' some electricity, they kindly agreed and the guy went away happy (having knocked me down by £50 )

To cut a long story short, the Class-D guys (and Peter) wired up my potential new rig while I was counting my money and when I went in to the shop and tested the rig, the sound was far superior to the Mackies we were testing minutes before, which made me very :D

I went for the JAC12's as they had a really nice sound and complimented the wooden subs and mids excellently. I got a very good deal after playing my 'I can't afford that' card, and still can't believe how good the system sounds. The bass from the 15" subs is deep and loud, the mids are tight and clean and the tops are nice and bright.

Basically the lot cost me £700 (£50 over what I wanted to spend) but the extra £50 was well worth it.

To summarise, I've got an excellent 1400W rig, for the same price (maybe a little less) than you would pay for 2 new SRM450's. I'm a VERY happy bunny, can't wait to try em out at my local residency now - roll on Saturday night...

Oh, and one last thing, thanks to Peter for loaning me a 'back-up' amp and speaker poles. Cheers mate ;) :beer1:

[theoloyla]

That is what the forum is about. Meeting and talking to people and then helping each other out whether you are into Mackie, Class D, Peavey, Wharfdale or Deltec (as I am). You pays your money and you makes your choice. Its up to you in the end. You will always get people who will tell you that you are wrong. So long as you and your customers are happy with what you buy its OK

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

That is what the forum is about. Meeting and talking to people and then helping each other out whether you are into Mackie, Class D, Peavey, Wharfdale or Deltec (as I am). You pays your money and you makes your choice. Its up to you in the end. You will always get people who will tell you that you are wrong. So long as you and your customers are happy with what you buy its OK

Absolutely.

You still can't beat a good old heated debate though. ;)

[Excalibur]

Absolutely.

You still can't beat a good old heated debate though. ;)


I am getting a bit bored with whole debate to be honest?

:confused: :p

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Generally you can't beat a heated debate, but some subjects do get a bit boring when they come up time and time again...

Annd you knew exactly what I meant so stop trying to catch me out :boxer2:

[Excalibur]

Generally you can't beat a heated debate, but some subjects do get a bit boring when they come up time and time again...

Annd you knew exactly what I meant so stop trying to catch me out :boxer2:

I never said a word! You did though! ;) :D :D :D

[One Vision]

Generally you can't beat a heated debate, but some subjects do get a bit boring when they come up time and time again...

Annd you knew exactly what I meant so stop trying to catch me out :boxer2:


Err but its a forum :Meeting:

[Tom]

Err but its a forum :Meeting:


Ok, lets say someone every month brings up the whole PAT and PLI question. Would you get annoyed with it???

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ok, lets say someone every month brings up the whole PAT and PLI question. Would you get annoyed with it???

Once a month would be fine....if only...:D

[JAMdisco]

Easy solution, if it's been covered to death and you're bored of hearing about it, just don't read it and, more so, don't get involed :eek: .

Or, you could always give a link to relevant previous threads. :p

Yes, it's a forum and nice to get peoples feedback/help/advice but it's not compulsory read every thread, I know I don't :eek:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Easy solution, if it's been covered to death and you're bored of hearing about it, just don't read it and, more so, don't get involed :eek: .

Or, you could always give a link to relevant previous threads. :p

Yes, it's a forum and nice to get peoples feedback/help/advice but it's not compulsory read every thread, I know I don't :eek:

It's compulsory to me as I have to check to make sure people aren't posting things that could get me into trouble.

[One Vision]

It's compulsory to me as I have to check to make sure people aren't posting things that could get me into trouble.

A simple solution to that one Daz, put a clause within the terms stating that the site/owners are not responsible for comments made by members or to whether information provided within the forums is accurate or not.

At the end of the day you simply run a free website for all to learn and share their experiences on but is impossible for you as the owner of the site to know whether everything posted whether technical or otherwise is 100% correct.
It goes without saying that you try to guide your members to only post facts from experience or professional knowledge but that's all you can do.

[Shaun]

A simple solution to that one Daz, put a clause within the terms stating that the site/owners are not responsible for comments made by members or to whether information provided within the forums is accurate or not.



There is such a clause. The forum staff still have to monitor topics to make sure all posts fall within the forum rules and guidelines.

Now where were we?. oh yeah, PA Upgrade!

[JAMdisco]

Now where were we?. oh yeah, PA Upgrade!

I think this thread has run it's course, seem to be going round in circles, and I've now upgraded!:D

[Shaun]

seem to be going round in circles, and I've now upgraded!:D


I think you've misspelt 'downgraded'.

Ok, I'll be quiet now. :zip: :D

[JAMdisco]

I think you've misspelt 'downgraded'.

Ok, I'll be quiet now. :zip: :D


No, definately spelt it correctly, even checked it in the Oxford English Dictionary and I quote: "...a replacement from ANY speaker system to Class-D..." :D :p :D

[Excalibur]

I think you've misspelt 'downgraded'.

Ok, I'll be quiet now. :zip: :D

I hope we can put this to bed soon ( though I somehow doubt it :( ). In Justin's case we're both convinced it's an upgrade, and that's the main thing.


No, definately spelt it correctly, even checked it in the Oxford English Dictionary and I quote: "...a replacement from ANY speaker system to Class-D..." :D :p :D

I think you'll be needing this- :sofa: