Are Djs less valued nowadays?

[Boogie Boy]

Not monetarily, 'cos we all know the answer to that, but intrinsically?

Since I've been DJing again, one thing has struck me more than any other. Generally, people view DJs as a fixture and fitting far more than they ever used to. That is, DJs are taken for granted and having a great night out is taken more for granted than it ever was.

DJs have been around so long now, is the whole genre perceived as being a tad stale/predictable by the general populace? That in itself doesn't have to a red card offence, just look at any of the fast food outlets...totally predictable (or should be) and yet people flock to 'em.

What are your thoughts?

[Excalibur]

Answer yes, because it's not seen as being difficult by the public at large, and also there's a disco in a pub near you every night of the week, so familiarity breeds contempt. :bang: :bang: :bang:

Sits back and waits for the flood of " I charge £750 per gig so I'm not undervalued" replies .:sofa:

[rob1963]

I think DJs are DEFINATELY valued less now than they were say 20 years ago, and I'd say this is mainly for three reasons.

Firstly, equipment is cheaper than it's ever been, making it less expensive and therefore easier for someone to get the gear.

Secondly, technology has a part to play...as most people already have a music playout system at home.

It's called an ipod.

Just connect that to a mixer & a pair of powered speakers & you're off.

Thirdly, wannabe DJs don't even have to pay for their music these days, then can just download everything they want from illegal sites.

:bang:

[A1DL]

I'm in full agreement with Rob.

The fact that equipment (albeit bottom end equipment - but Joe Public doesn't know or care about this) is visibly being sold in high street/retail park electrical retailers certainly doesn't help.

The ease and little amount of money it takes for teenagers to "become a DJ" nowadays doesn't help. The fact that the equipment will be poor, presentation won't exist, music may be illegal, and PAT & PLI unheard of, doesn't come into the equation.

It's all about perception - and the public perception is often along the lines of "I'm not paying £x - that's more than it costs to BUY the disco equipment in xxxx and do it myself!" or "my best mate's boyfriend has got some big speakers, we'll connect an IPOD to those", etc

Most people still seem to recognise the talent and skill in live entertainment, and are happy to pay well for a band, tribute act, after dinner speaker etc. But when it comes to the DJ, he is often seen as very second class compared to the above. Sad, but true.

[Dragonfly]

I think we can be undervalued because of the perception of what we do the "how much is a disco" comment at the start of many telephone conversations is testament to this , of course all discos are the same all dj's are the same we all play the same 70 songs every night using the same equipment as each other.


no of course not ..... how under valued you are is however dependant on you and how you sell your service , tongue in cheek I once had the notion ....

your wedding day is 12 hours long ... the average cost of a wedding is 15,000 , you want me to be responsible for 5 hours of this 15,000 divided by 12 is 1250 x 5 ........ so 6250 .......... so if i charge you say 3000 for a disco it's a good deal is it not??

now of course this is not real and wouldn't happen also as stated this thread is not about money ........

i have as im sure many have been out with what i consider a ver small rig and got comments like "ooohhh i never knew there was so much gear involved"

yes the perception is that what we do is easy , why then are photographers still getting 2k for their services surely with digital cameras and super dooper software packages this job is now a whole heap easier than it once was ???

I feel less undervalued now than i used to as i'm getting more or less what i want to from my job (not just talking money)

but to raise the view of the dj is to illustrate what the likes of Darren (Solitaire) is doing by offering his time and money to be a face for our industry and try and raise awareness of just what life is like for the working dj and shoot down the misconceptions and misinterpretations not just with jo public but within the industry too.

I the biggest thing that mr public does not realise is like everything in life there are different standards and they have a choice which they pick.

On fast food restaurants ........ quick , easy , inexpensive

yes there is long term effects to using them but we really don't have time to think about the fact that we may die ten years earlier than we are supposed to right this very minute as we only have a fiver in our pockets and our lunch hour ends in 10 minutes.

the same way as ... a disco is a disco flashing lights and loud music .... the fact that it's kak and doesnt sound or look nice with mr bean at the decks only comes to light when it gets plugged in .............too late.

this is supposed to be a considered sensible post and i hope it doesnt sound too much like a ramble?

[Excalibur]

Two surprises there, firstly Rob and myself agreeing, and second no flak yet!

[rob1963]

just lookok at any of the fast food outlets...totally predictable (or should be) and yet people flock to 'em.


I see nothing wrong with being predictable.

The important thing is to provide a professional service & do what the client wants.

[spin mobile disco]

Just wrote a nice post on this subject however pressing wrong button at the end wiped it and sent me to HTFR website :bang: :bang: :bang:

Ok try again, Yes in general DJ's are being under valued now compared to say 20 years ago. However some client still know a good DJ when they hear it and im sure you all get repeat bookings from clients and venues.

As for ipods and mp3 players. They are really only being used by people in replacement for the hi fi in the corner through dinner and the daytime of a wedding. And anyone who uses one for a disco in the evcening wouldnt have swung for the price of a DJ any way. They are called cheap and do not realise the evening reception is a thankyou for their guests for attending in the day. The nicer the reception the more they valued their guests in my opinion.

[rob1963]

Two surprises there, firstly Rob and myself agreeing

You know I'm the voice of common sense :D


and second no flak yet!

Give it time! :rolleyes:

[Boogie Boy]

[QUOTE=Dragonfly;229166]
yes the perception is that what we do is easy , why then are photographers still getting 2k for their services surely with digital cameras and super dooper software packages this job is now a whole heap easier than it once was ???

I guess the difference is that the photographer can give the customer something tangible that will last a lifetime. We can only give them memories, which may or may not be forgotten in a hungover haze the next day.


I feel less undervalued now than i used to as i'm getting more or less what i want to from my job (not just talking money)

My question was a general one. Doubtless there are many DJs who feel totally fulfilled and are earning sufficiently good money to make them feel good.


but to raise the view of the dj is to illustrate what the likes of Darren (Solitaire) is doing by offering his time and money to be a face for our industry and try and raise awareness of just what life is like for the working dj and shoot down the misconceptions and misinterpretations not just with jo public but within the industry too.

After all is said and done, it's up to every one of us as individuals to 'walk the walk' better than we 'talk the talk'.


I the biggest thing that mr public does not realise is like everything in life there are different standards and they have a choice which they pick.

Is there such a chasm between the absolute best and absolute worst (mobile)DJs? This in an industry where he who shouts loudest usually gets the gigs, innit?



yes there is long term effects to using them but we really don't have time to think about the fact that we may die ten years earlier than we are supposed to right this very minute as we only have a fiver in our pockets and our lunch hour ends in 10 minutes.

We may yet have a generation that grows old being extremely Mutt and Geoff.


the same way as ... a disco is a disco flashing lights and loud music .... the fact that it's kak and doesnt sound or look nice with mr bean at the decks only comes to light when it gets plugged in .............too late.

Even Mr. Bean can have his fans/good days. To date I've had very positive reactions from clients, BUT ........maybe I've been lucky.

[sleah]

I think DJs are DEFINATELY valued less now than they were say 20 years ago
:bang:... blah blah

Probably one of the best post I've seen from Rob ;)

I agree 110%:)

[rob1963]

... blah blah

Probably one of the best post I've seen from Rob ;)

I agree 110%:)

Wow...thanks Simon!

The cheque's in the post :rolleyes:

[sleah]

... blah blah

Probably one of the best post I've seen from Rob ;)

I agree 110%:)


Wow...thanks Simon!

The cheque's in the post :rolleyes:

Enjoy the moment Rob.
Someone will along soon I'm sure to put you down, seems to be a sport round here :D :D :D

Better be more than Steve's £20 - I haven't suggested you could be overweight (yet):D

Besides, I'm posting as a DJ here and we are undervalued, sod it, make that cheque £500:D more like it.......

[rob1963]

Enjoy the moment Rob.
Someone will along soon I'm sure to put you down

As sure as night follows day!

:rolleyes:

[Dragonfly]

[QUOTE]

I guess the difference is that the photographer can give the customer something tangible that will last a lifetime. We can only give them memories, which may or may not be forgotten in a hungover haze the next day.

Absolutely yes society sadly really is that shallow



My question was a general one. Doubtless there are many DJs who feel totally fulfilled and are earning sufficiently good money to make them feel good.

the point being if you feel you are getting your just rewards for something that you do , do you not feel a better sense of self worth and thus more VALUED?



After all is said and done, it's up to every one of us as individuals to 'walk the walk' better than we 'talk the talk'.

Yes but some dont and I for one will stand behind almost anyone willing to lead the way and stand up and be counted for the benefit of the masses



Is there such a chasm between the absolute best and absolute worst (mobile)DJs? This in an industry where he who shouts loudest usually gets the gigs, innit?

I genuinely believe there is yes !!!! and no i dont believe its he who shouts loudest gets the gigs at all , it's about who you shout to (which i believe is not the right word at all to use) and more importantly what you shout at them.




We may yet have a generation that grows old being extremely Mutt and Geoff.

indeed



Even Mr. Bean can have his fans/good days. To date I've had very positive reactions from clients, BUT ........maybe I've been lucky.

missed the essence of my point sadly ..... mr bean sure does have his fans but im sure they wouldnt want him introducing them onto the dance floor at their wedding as "brmbrmbrrrpbrrmmmhhhrrrddyyygurm"

[Ace DJ]

Yes we are under valued and a lot of the time and taken for granted.
On many occasions there is no hello other then when you introduce yourself and sometimes no goodbyes even when it's been a cracking evening.

At some functions I have even been asked for jugs of water, where are the toilets, can you get me a clean knife and fork, etc.
On replying saying "I am the DJ" they come back with "I thought you was the
Staff "
To cap it all on replying to my quote a couple of weeks ago one punter asked if I could give a discount for saying yes to booking me Eh!!!!.
I asked if she had called the hotel for a menu reduction for the 120 people
at the event. No she hadn't. But back came the reply.............................
"BUT YOU'RE ONLY A DISCO" What did she mean by that ????????????

I have a gig in June and yesterday received an email from the B&G asking if I needed any refreshment on the night and who is the account is to be charged too..........................Eh!!!! I will bring my own bottle of water I Think.
Ace

[Sam]

Answer yes, because it's not seen as being difficult by the public at large, and also there's a disco in a pub near you every night of the week, so familiarity breeds contempt. :bang: :bang: :bang:

Sits back and waits for the flood of " I charge £750 per gig so I'm not undervalued" replies .:sofa:

Bit like an airline pilot really...

[Steve the DJ]

Yes, I think DJs are undervalued both in terms of the public perception and monetary value, however I think this is almost entirely the fault of DJs themselves.

[sleah]

Yes, I think DJs are undervalued both in terms of the public perception and monetary value, however I think this is almost entirely the fault of DJs themselves.

Whoooooaaaa! There's a contravertial post if ever I read one:eek:

Methinks you should qualify that comment by saying 'entirely the fault of the rogue/cowboy/unprofessional DJ's'

[Vectis]

:agree: (with FDDJ)

Hence why those of us who strive to deliver a higher-than-expected level of customer care and commitment, and a range of services other than just turning up and playing a few records, will continue to win the premium business.

And it's also why playing to the various markets makes sense too. For example, I offer a "no frills" package for those who really do just want "a disco" as it is a minor part of their celebration and is viewed as a necessarily evil, such as the catering, balloons, cake etc.. For those discerning folks for whom the disco is "the entertainment" they can have a much improved service level and range of options as they're prepared to pay for it.

Edited to say that "however I think this is almost entirely the fault of DJs themselves" is probably a bit strong. I think it's the case with some DJs but not all, by a long chalk.

[rob1963]

Methinks you should qualify that comment by saying 'entirely the fault of the rogue/cowboy/unprofessional DJ's'

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Steve the DJ]

I did think about a different wording similar to what some have suggested but decided against it, and here is why...

I know many DJs that run fully legit, professional shows that despite their best efforts, on some occasions the business part of their brain switches off and they do favours here and discounts there, set up 6 hours before they are needed and don't charge, provide extra PA for speeches and don't charge etc. etc., all of which helps keeps prices lower than they should be.

I have made these mistakes before and consider myself neither a rogue, cowboy nor unprofessional DJ.

You can dress the above up as whatever you like, marketing ploys, favours, a discount for a venue you would like to get on board, out of the goodness of your heart etc. but DJs who fail to charge a fair fee for every aspect of their service are helping to limit our earning potential.

So blaming rogue/cowboy/unprofessional DJ's is wrong, even the best intentioned amongst us continue to make these poor business decisions and whether we like to admit it or not, we are doing nearly as much harm as the "cowboys".

[rob1963]

You can dress the above up as whatever you like, marketing ploys, favours, a discount for a venue you would like to get on board, out of the goodness of your heart etc. but DJs who fail to charge a fair fee for every aspect of their service are helping to limit our earning potential.

Don't most businesses do that?

I don't think that offering favours, discounts etc is bad business practice, I think it's GOOD business practice, and if it gets you more work, then it makes good business sense too.

With all due respect, I don't agree that we are contributing to the bad image of the industry or under-selling ourselves just because we don't pile on the charges of every single possible aspect of what we do.

You seem to think everything is black & white, but it's not.


blaming rogue/cowboy/unprofessional DJ's is wrong

No it's not, because they are the ones who are most responsible for the bad image our industry has.


whether we like to admit it or not, we are doing nearly as much harm as the "cowboys".

With all due respect, I think that's complete rubbish.

[Steve the DJ]

Told ya no one would like to admit it. :)

[Dragonfly]

I did think about a different wording similar to what some have suggested but decided against it, and here is why...

I know many DJs that run fully legit, professional shows that despite their best efforts, on some occasions the business part of their brain switches off and they do favours here and discounts there, set up 6 hours before they are needed and don't charge, provide extra PA for speeches and don't charge etc. etc., all of which helps keeps prices lower than they should be.

I have made these mistakes before and consider myself neither a rogue, cowboy nor unprofessional DJ.

You can dress the above up as whatever you like, marketing ploys, favours, a discount for a venue you would like to get on board, out of the goodness of your heart etc. but DJs who fail to charge a fair fee for every aspect of their service are helping to limit our earning potential.

So blaming rogue/cowboy/unprofessional DJ's is wrong, even the best intentioned amongst us continue to make these poor business decisions and whether we like to admit it or not, we are doing nearly as much harm as the "cowboys".

good point i'm not showering or shaving next time i have a wedding unless the client agrees to pay for my razor , water and shower gel.

[Steve the DJ]

good point i'm not showering or shaving next time i have a wedding unless the client agrees to pay for my razor , water and shower gel.

That's the spirit!

[Royalblue]

Its an interesting one really. As a teacher I went to a may ball last year and the disco set up was outrageous. Huge rig with every inch of room (which was large) lit by something or other. Not to my taste I have to say. Anyway, the DJ put on a really good show, played all the right music at the right times and interacted well with the kids. A few of my colleagues were not impressed and came out with comments like 'what a load of *expletive removed* (http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=12128) and what *expletive removed* (http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=12128) will he play next' only to be up dancing and enjoying themselves about twenty minutes later. I think things like the Peter Kay sketch haven't helped, but when you are DJing and you have a full dance floor you are certainly not undervalued. However, why do people organising weddings leave the disco to the last minute? Why do they try to scimp and save on the DJ, as happens so often. I think DJs are not undervalued but there is a problem with perception, which is different IMO especially when at the heart of it all is the music that is played, which unfortuantely will not appeal to everyone all of the time.

Oh and by the way, its nice to be back after having no internet for a week!:)

[theoloyla]

Vets, Surveyors and Accountants have a better public perception than builders, double glazing Salesmen and mechanics. The perception of each profession or trade is down to all its members. There are good and bad in all professions but vets have a professional body where someone who misbehaves is struck off. They are organized - we are not (despite the best efforts of SEDA and NADJ etc).

[rob1963]

Vets, Surveyors and Accountants have a better public perception than builders, double glazing Salesmen and mechanics.

Isn't that because Vets, Surveyors & Accountants are qualified professionals, whereas builders & mechanics are labourers, and double glazing salesmen are just salesmen?

That has nothing to do with being undervalued due to giving discounts or doing favours.

[Vectis]

good point i'm not showering or shaving next time i have a wedding unless the client agrees to pay for my razor , water and shower gel.

Pah! Not charging for the heating of the water or a contribution towards a bottle of bathroom cleaning spray? Pussy!

[rob1963]

You can dress the above up as whatever you like, marketing ploys, favours, a discount for a venue you would like to get on board, out of the goodness of your heart etc. but DJs who fail to charge a fair fee for every aspect of their service are helping to limit our earning potential.

Assuming you practice what you preach, It must be a nightmare for potential clients trying to get a simple quote out of you...

...as you must have to spend about 15 minutes asking them loads of questions, to ensure that your quote includes charges for every single aspect of what you will do for them & how long each will take, down to the nearest minute.

:confused:

[Steve the DJ]

Assuming you practice what you preach, It must be a nightmare for potential clients trying to get a simple quote out of you...

...as you must have to spend about 15 minutes asking them loads of questions, to ensure that your quote includes charges for every single aspect of what you will do for them & how long each will take, down to the nearest minute.

No need to be facetious Rob...

I do spend a great deal of time on the phone to the client finding out as much info as possible so that I can formulate an exact quote.

I think that is the right way to do things so that I do not undersell myself. I don't charge for every minute detail, for example, if I am asked to set up early I will happily provide background music and supply radio mics for speeches because I have to be on site for insurance purposes anyway.

So whilst I am charging more, I am adding value.

And funnily enough clients don't think I am wasting their time, they actually thank me for helping them to consider all of the options available.

[Vectis]

:agree:

Me too. If the client is pushing for a price, I'll give them a range, but quickly explain that in order to get to an exact quote we need to know more about their aspirations for the day. If the range quote blows me out so be it, but this rarely happens.

Also you can deal with the costs of foam, blades, water etc. using an online quote system which strangely enough nearly all of my customers use :) For the big package with loads of options it's a bit like filling in one of those surveys... and women love filling those in. Strangely I'd say about two thirds if not more of my hirers are women :p

[rob1963]

No need to be facetious Rob...

I do spend a great deal of time on the phone to the client finding out as much info as possible so that I can formulate an exact quote.

I think that is the right way to do things so that I do not undersell myself. I don't charge for every minute detail, for example, if I am asked to set up early I will happily provide background music and supply radio mics for speeches because I have to be on site for insurance purposes anyway.

So whilst I am charging more, I am adding value.

Sorry if I came across as facetious.

That wasn't my intention...I was just curious if you practice what you preach, and it seems you only do to a certain extent.

[Steve the DJ]

Sorry if I came across as facetious.

That wasn't my intention...

Apology accepted.



...I was just curious if you practice what you preach, and it seems you only do to a certain extent.

I am not preaching to anyone, just offering my viewpoint which people can take or leave, it makes no odds to me.

But I do charge for every aspect of my service, full stop.

How I sell each aspect to the client is the important part and whilst most people like the idea of the DJ setting up before the Wedding Breakfast they cannot see any value in it if you just say that will be £x and I will set up before you get there

Offering background music and the use of mics whilst talking about how the day will run much more smoothly as everything is in place from the "off", adds value.

Every minute my gear is in a venue it can't be anywhere else earning me money, these are the tools of my trade, you want them then you have to pay.

Maybe I should ring a plumber and ask him drop his tools off in the morning but not come back and work on the boiler until the afternoon?

I wonder what he would say? :rolleyes:

Apologies to the OP, I think we have gone a bit "off topic"

[rob1963]

I am not preaching to anyone, just offering my viewpoint which people can take or leave, it makes no odds to me.

But I do charge for every aspect of my service, full stop.

I wasn't suggesting that you are preaching to anyone, but was simply using a figure of speech.

I have no problem with you charging for every aspect of what you do.

What I DO disagree with, though, is your suggestion that DJs who sometimes offer a discount or do a bit extra without charging more are contributing to the bad name our industry has.

I actually think the complete opposite is true. If we sometimes offer more than expected without actually charging more, then in the customer's eyes we are OVER-delivering.

Wouldn't that give them a BETTER opinion of our industry rather than a WORSE one?

I think so.

[Steve the DJ]

What I DO disagree with, though, is your suggestion that DJs who sometimes offer a discount or do a bit extra without charging more are contributing to the bad name our industry has.

I actually think the complete opposite is true. If we sometimes offer more than expected without actually charging more, then in the customer's eyes we are OVER-delivering.

Wouldn't that give them a BETTER opinion of our industry rather than a WORSE one?

I think so.

Yes and no.

There is nothing wrong with under promising and over delivering to a degree, in fact it is probably good business 101 so you are absolutely right.

But I think many DJs go too far in the "wrong" direction. We must be the most generous industry in the world! :D

I was talking to a bride the other day who has secured a DJ for her Wedding who is setting up at 2.30 PM and working until 1 AM. The fee? A princely £150.

He may well think he is doing everything you say, offering amazing value for money and ensuring the client is getting a good service. He has all the relevant insurance/tests and secures all bookings in writing.

Is the bride pleased with all the extra effort he is putting in? Is she happy that the DJ has offered her a contract or is fully insured?

Nope...she couldn't care less, but she is happy that she could secure a DJ for such a cheap price.

What happens if the DJ does a great job and gets more bookings? Can he put the price up? Of course he can't, he has to offer the same or lose the booking and you know many DJs work on the assumption that something is better than nothing...:bang:

What I have never understood is why DJs prostitue themselves to death for less than the minimum wage all in the "name of entertainment"?

[theoloyla]

What I have never understood is why DJs prostitue themselves to death for less than the minimum wage all in the "name of entertainment"?
Coz they're amateurs or idiots or both!

[Dragonfly]

What happens if the DJ does a great job and gets more bookings? Can he put the price up? Of course he can't, he has to offer the same or lose the booking and you know many DJs work on the assumption that something is better than nothing...:bang:

i have found this not to be the case at all for me .... i charge now almost double what i did 3-4 years ago and am still getting people call me and book me , because of what i do ..... not what i charge end of last year i did a 10 year wedding anniversary for someone whos wedding i actually did ... one of my first gigs ..... did they expect the same price .... no ... some of the people i get call on repeat bookings don't even mention a price .... i can remember having to call 2 people back because we got chatting about xs disco that i did and completely forgot to quote just agreed to send out a booking pack.

if we couldnt put prices up some who started in say 1980 would be going out for a very low fee .... which im sure they're not.


Coz they're amateurs or idiots or both!

or on the nicer side like me for a very long time don't have the confidence in their own ability to think they can charge that much for what they do ....

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Maybe I am doing something wrong then??
I've mentioned this on another thread but early access and setup times and stuff like radio mics etc for the speeches all come under my quote anyway. I ask the customers in my pre-function meetings if they want to use radio mics etc and if they do then that's fine with me.

I'll be honest with you too.... I will always mention that 99.9% of the time most other DJ's will charge extra for radio mics etc yet I don't. I do that because most of the other DJ's I know DO charge extra. It really doesn't bother me and anyway, there are ways of adding that extra into the overall price anyway if you know what I mean.

[theoloyla]

if we couldnt put prices up some who started in say 1980 would be going out for a very low fee .... which im sure they're not.
That is true. I would be on £15 a night!
However it either needs to be spelled out to the client that they are getting a special deal or else it makes it very dificult to increase prices by more than say 10%.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But I do charge for every aspect of my service, full stop.



Me too.


Coz they're amateurs or idiots or both!

I think the difference sometimes can be between doing this for a living and making some extra money on top of your day job.



What I have never understood is why DJs prostitue themselves to death for less than the minimum wage all in the "name of entertainment"?

For the above reason.

This is the same reason that a lot of DJs have no idea to run a proper business when they finance the purchase of new kit with money from the day job.

[rob1963]

What I have never understood is why DJs prostitute themselves to death for less than the minimum wage all in the "name of entertainment"?

Well you won't catch ME prostituting myself!

:rolleyes:

[theoloyla]

Well you won't catch ME prostituting myself!

:rolleyes:
Really? I had heard you were Surrey's top gigolo!:)

[rob1963]

Really? I had heard you were Surrey's top gigolo!:)

:Laugh:

[Steve the DJ]

This is the same reason that a lot of DJs have no idea to run a proper business when they finance the purchase of new kit with money from the day job.

It took me a number of years, many bad purchases, some really crappy jobs and a number of attempts to quit before I realised I had been doing things from a hobby or spare cash perspective rather than treating it as a proper business, and that was my single most important error.

I don't operate on the same scale as you and I retain the day job (for the moment), but it doesn't matter, you have to treat it as a business from top to bottom whether you are a sole man (cue the music...) or a multi op.

If you don't, you will continue to work your bits off, feeling totally unloved and for very little reward.

[music-2-play]

I got in a massive argument with a lot of members on here a while ago, because I said DJing wasn't a real job, or rather it's not viewed as such - I know the paperwork, administration, design etc, that I myself put into building my business up, but when I'm out there playing music in front of a bunch of people, I don't think people really think about that side.

I had an event organiser look amazed when I took out a real CD deck last week, and they were like 'i thought it was all ipods these days'...I've also had the surprised 'wow...i'm amazed how much equiplment you have', becasue let's face it, for every person that takes there work seriously, there's a whole lot more people with a mate called Terry, who's got a pair of belt-drive decks, and two lights from M**lins... When I turned up at a daytime corporate gig last week with just my tidy booth, the organiser said to me 'I thought you were going to be in the corner all - [and then she proceeded to wave her hands around in a maniacal manner], I guess to signify a crazy disco with flashing light boxes and traffic lights.

People do expect the crazy Peter Kaye DJ, and I think for the most part, it's becasue 'anybody' can be a DJ with a couple of Now That's What I Call Music and I've been to a lot of parties with DJs like that - I even had one like that for my 19th Birthday [music randomly cutting out, cds jumping, playing from an old hitachi hi-fi cd player]. Anybody that takes pride in knowing their way around six decades of music, or knowing the different between a 1/4" Jack and an XLR, no doubt have their skills undervalued becasue of Djs like this.

[Corabar Steve]

Were DJs ever valued??


Better be more than Steve's £20 - I haven't suggested you could be overweight (yet):D
But he is! :sj: :sj:

[rob1963]

Were DJs ever valued??


But he is! :sj: :sj:

I'm NOT overweight.
























































I'm just 3 feet too short!

:D

[BeerFunk]

I think DJs are DEFINATELY valued less now than they were say 20 years ago, and I'd say this is mainly for three reasons.Yes, I agree.


Firstly, equipment is cheaper than it's ever been, making it less expensive and therefore easier for someone to get the gear.Yes, and also easier to obtain (internet, 'general' stores stocking cheap rubbish)


Thirdly, wannabe DJs don't even have to pay for their music these days, then can just download everything they want from illegal sites.Yes, that's been the case for the past 10-15 years, definitely. Although piracy in general has pretty much always been there.


I guess the difference is that the photographer can give the customer something tangible that will last a lifetime. We can only give them memories, which may or may not be forgotten in a hungover haze the next day.Nevertheless, the disco is likely to feature in a good amount of photos. As are the cake, flowers and decorations, though.


Is there such a chasm between the absolute best and absolute worst (mobile)DJs? This in an industry where he who shouts loudest usually gets the gigs, innit?No, the gulf is massive in my opinion. The average DJ in a backstreet pub wouldn't be allowed to set foot in a top hotel.



You can dress the above up as whatever you like, marketing ploys, favours, a discount for a venue you would like to get on board, out of the goodness of your heart etc. but DJs who fail to charge a fair fee for every aspect of their service are helping to limit our earning potential.

So blaming rogue/cowboy/unprofessional DJ's is wrong, even the best intentioned amongst us continue to make these poor business decisions and whether we like to admit it or not, we are doing nearly as much harm as the "cowboys".An excellent point, which, as you say, will not be accepted by a large number of DJs because they don't want to believe it.

I'm having my bathroom re-done, and I had a plasterer in quoting. He seems like a genuine honest guy, and he told me what I had to do before he would start. It was mainly small things, which he could well have done himself, but he made it quite clear that he would charge me the labour if he did, and that I may as well do it as it is something that I could easily do (hence the 'honest' comment).

The point is, he charges for the time, materials and level of service, and no extras for free. He is running a business, after all.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Ironically I think much of the undervaluing of DJs by the general populace is down to something the general populace want front DJs... less chatter.

I'm not talking Peter Kaye/Smashy & Nicey/et al., I'm talking the "Here's a favourite from the bride's school days", "here's one for the groom and his rugby mates". If people allowed a little more of that into the night the guests would have a better idea as to why certain songs are being played and that the DJ HAS done his homework and IS putting in the effort.

Also, it has to be remembered that everyone's perception of what music makes up a good night is different, if a DJ plays a cluster of songs together that appeal to a particular person they are not generally going to say to themselves, 'Ooh, how did he know to play those songs together?', they're going to say, 'Yeah! That's what I would have done.', or just take it for granted that those songs make sense together. The exception being, for example, if someone goes to a disco of Theo's and he drops some bangin' gabba ;)

My experience suggests that if you are meeting with your clients and asking questions and explaining the difference in likely outcome depending on their answer then at least THEY will value what you do at THEIR day... and I think that's the most important outcome of all for repeat business, especially if their guests also enjoy it.

... but all we're doing is pressing 'PLAY'! ;)

[rob1963]

I'm having my bathroom re-done, and I had a plasterer in quoting. He seems like a genuine honest guy, and he told me what I had to do before he would start. It was mainly small things, which he could well have done himself, but he made it quite clear that he would charge me the labour if he did, and that I may as well do it as it is something that I could easily do

I understand what you're saying, but there's also another way of looking at it.

If he offered to do the small things that needed doing himself, and said that he SHOULD charge you for them, but wouldn't, what effect would that have?

In most cases, I'd say the client would be impressed because he was over-delivering, they would therefore be more likely to use him again and would also be more likely to recommend him to friends...so although in the short term it might cost him a small amount of lost income, he could easily make that back several times over in the future from the repeat work & recommendations.

To my mind, that makes good business sense.

[Boogie Boy]

I understand what you're saying, but there's also another way of looking at it.

If he offered to do the small things that needed doing himself, and said that he SHOULD charge you for them, but wouldn't, what effect would that have?

In most cases, I'd say the client would be impressed because he was over-delivering, they would therefore be more likely to use him again and would also be more likely to recommend him to friends...so although in the short term it might cost him a small amount of lost income, he could easily make that back several times over in the future from the repeat work & recommendations.

To my mind, that makes good business sense.

To my way of thinking, both these methods work and both deliver customer satisfaction. The major difference between our professions is that a plasterer is on 'piece time' in effect and we're not. We gain our wage through working a fixed amount of time that is known in advance.

[rob1963]

I'm just wondering something about those who say they charge for every single aspect of what they do for a client, and the total time involved.

Obviously they would need to have a chat with the client & ask a lot of questions to find out the work & time involved before they are able to give an accurate quote.

If the client then contacts them a week before the function to say the times have changed and the disco now needs to start 30 minutes later than originally stated...would that disco then offer a partial refund due to the fact that they are now needed for 30 minutes less?

I suspect that if they're honest, the answer is no.

[soundtracker]

I'm just wondering something about those who say they charge for every single aspect of what they do for a client, and the total time involved.

Obviously they would need to have a chat with the client & ask a lot of questions to find out the work & time involved before they are able to give an accurate quote.

If the client then contacts them a week before the function to say the times have changed and the disco now needs to start 30 minutes later than originally stated...would that disco then offer a partial refund due to the fact that they are now needed for 30 minutes less?

I suspect that if they're honest, the answer is no.

Yeah right!

[Steve the DJ]

If the client then contacts them a week before the function to say the times have changed and the disco now needs to start 30 minutes later than originally stated...would that disco then offer a partial refund due to the fact that they are now needed for 30 minutes less?

I suspect that if they're honest, the answer is no.

Correct, the answer is no and this potential factor is built into my Terms & Conditions (the same as additional time requirements).

The reason for this is simple, if the day runs over by an hour or so and that impacts on the dancing time available, that isn't my fault. I was there, ready, willing and able to proceed as agreed, on time.

I can't go anywhere else and earn some money whilst I wait for the over running speeches to finish!

Edited To Add:

I obviously can't read properly!

If a client called me several days or weeks before their event to say they needed less "playing time" it is unlikely (although not entirely impossible) that I will offer a refund unless it was a substantial deviation from the previously agreed times.

[CRAZY K]

Correct, the answer is no and this potential factor is built into my Terms & Conditions (the same as additional time requirements).

The reason for this is simple, if the day runs over by an hour or so and that impacts on the dancing time available, that isn't my fault. I was there, ready, willing and able to proceed as agreed, on time.

I can't go anywhere else and earn some money whilst I wait for the over running speeches to finish!

Dont you find if its a midnight finish though--everyone has had enough by then--well they do when im around at a Wedding.

If they start late because of over running speeches I do agree I wouldnt play longer unless I got paid more.

Perhaps you need to work the Dancers harder--;)

CRAZY K

[Steve the DJ]

Dont you find if its a midnight finish though--everyone has had enough by then--well they do when im around at a Wedding.

Sometimes.



If they start late because of over running speeches I do agree I wouldnt play longer unless I got paid more.

That's two of us then. :)



Perhaps you need to work the Dancers harder--;)

I don't understand? :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I don't understand? :confused:

I doubt very much whether you have got people dosi-do ing and spinning their partners round etc Steve. :p

[Steve the DJ]

I doubt very much whether you have got people dosi-do ing and spinning their partners round etc Steve. :p

Ahhh....of course, I see now! :D

I remember the days when I was lucky if the audience was sober enough to stand up let alone dance...:lol:

[Excalibur]

Ironically I..............................................
also enjoy it.

... but all we're doing is pressing 'PLAY'! ;)

I'm hoping that's all I need to do soon! :D ;) ;) :D

[rob1963]

If a client called me several days or weeks before their event to say they needed less "playing time" it is unlikely (although not entirely impossible) that I will offer a refund unless it was a substantial deviation from the previously agreed times.

So if they phoned up to ask for 30 minutes extra playing time, you'd presumably charge more, but if they reduced the playing time by 30 minutes you'd NOT charge less?

If you're charging for every aspect of your time & work, then isn't that a bit hypocritical?

It reminds me of the petrol situation. When the price of oil goes up, the price of petrol goes up. However, when the price of oil goes DOWN, the price of petrol usually stays the SAME!

[sleah]

So if they phoned up to ask for 30 minutes extra playing time, you'd presumably charge more, but if they reduced the playing time by 30 minutes you'd NOT charge less?

If you're charging for every aspect of your time & work, then isn't that a bit hypocritical?

It reminds me of the petrol situation. When the price of oil goes up, the price of petrol goes up. However, when the price of oil goes DOWN, the price of petrol usually stays the SAME!

I'm inclined to agree Rob. The actual playing time isn't generally all that significant, what's 1/2hr to an hour anyway?

I'd only charge more if it were several hours over or more importantly going in to the wee small hours, cutting in to my beauty sleep (boy, do I need it!)

If I were booked 'till 1am and it were cut back to 11pm, I may consider a reduction. But not below what I would consider a 'flat-rate'. After all, you can't be elsewhere making up the difference.

I don't think you can easily have hard and fast rules, you take each job on it's own merits.

[CRAZY K]

I doubt very much whether you have got people dosi-do ing and spinning their partners round etc Steve. :p

Sorry-im not being clear--yes I include plenty of Barn Dances in my Wedding gigs so people get pretty tired out:D

Steve--were those nice Scottish people on their knees before I handed over the other week---or not:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

I include plenty of Barn Dances in my Wedding gigs so people get pretty tired out:D CRAZY K

As tired out as YOU get carrying the Peaveys?

:D :D :D

[Steve the DJ]

So if they phoned up to ask for 30 minutes extra playing time, you'd presumably charge more, but if they reduced the playing time by 30 minutes you'd NOT charge less?

If you're charging for every aspect of your time & work, then isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Errr....no.

For example, I have a basic fee that books me out for an evening. I expect to work up to 5 hours inclusive for that fee (excluding set up/break down/travel time), but accept that sometimes I may only "perform" for 4 hours or so, maybe less.

If a client had booked me and the original plans were to run from say 7 PM to 11.30 PM but on the night they asked me to play for another 30 minutes then I would do so and not ask for extra money.

If the client asked me on the night to do an extra hour I would tell them it would be £25 extra (that's right, £25 per half hour or part thereof extra).

If the client books me from 7 PM until 11 PM I can't go anywhere for the last hour and earn some more money so why should I discount my basic fee?

That basic fee is based on covering all of my costs, if I start giving money away without being able to replace it, it affects my bottom line.

Again I reiterate, I am in business to entertain, to give great service and make money.


It reminds me of the petrol situation. When the price of oil goes up, the price of petrol goes up. However, when the price of oil goes DOWN, the price of petrol usually stays the SAME!

It is nothing like the petrol situation. :daft:

[rob1963]

I do charge for every aspect of my service, full stop.



If a client had booked me and the original plans were to run from say 7 PM to 11.30 PM but on the night they asked me to play for another 30 minutes then I would do so and not ask for extra money.

:confused:

[Steve the DJ]

:confused:

It's not really that hard is it Rob?

I charge a basic fee for the evening and then build in extras if required such as early set up, playing beyond Midnight, extra travel etc. etc.

If I have already factored in (and charged for) the fact I could be working up to 5 hours and then get asked to do so, when I was only asked to work for 4 and 1/2 hours originally, then I have already been paid for the extra half an hour anyway.

If they ask me to do an extra hour then we move beyond the 5 hours I have already accounted for and I will charge extra.

Simple really isn't it? Everything has been, or must be paid for.

[Dragonfly]

It's not really that hard is it Rob?

I charge a basic fee for the evening and then build in extras if required such as early set up, playing beyond Midnight, extra travel etc. etc.

If I have already factored in (and charged for) the fact I could be working up to 5 hours and then get asked to do so, when I was only asked to work for 4 and 1/2 hours originally, then I have already been paid for the extra half an hour anyway.

If they ask me to do an extra hour then we move beyond the 5 hours I have already accounted for and I will charge extra.

Simple really isn't it? Everything has been, or must be paid for.

ok i don't mean to be pedantic here but .... same theory you are booked 7.30pm until 12 midnight still 4 1/2 hours and the client says can we have an extra half hour please? do you still do it o gratis??? as i know some up the fee for finishing beyond midnight? as i said genuinely curious , i do the same as you by the sounds of it charge upto and including 5 hours so just wondering how it works after midnight? personally rightly or wrongly i'd still do it for nothing as i'd quoted for upto 5 hours ...... or maybe you get round this by stipulating the 5 hours end before midnight? given myself something to think about there.

[rob1963]

It's not really that hard is it Rob?

Probably not, although I still don't understand, but don't worry, I'm a bit thick!

:daft:

[Steve the DJ]

ok i don't mean to be pedantic here but .... same theory you are booked 7.30pm until 12 midnight still 4 1/2 hours and the client says can we have an extra half hour please? do you still do it o gratis??? as i know some up the fee for finishing beyond midnight? as i said genuinely curious , i do the same as you by the sounds of it charge upto and including 5 hours so just wondering how it works after midnight? personally rightly or wrongly i'd still do it for nothing as i'd quoted for upto 5 hours ...... or maybe you get round this by stipulating the 5 hours end before midnight? given myself something to think about there.

It's a fair question and one I have toyed with for a while, do I allow for 5 hours full stop or do I have a limit (i.e. up to Midnight)?

The honest answer is, I was judging each situation on it's own merits, but recently decided I needed to set a limit so that I was being fair and giving a more consistent message, so I chose 5 hours up to Midnight.

However, I can still be flexible if I need to and as long as the figures add up...

Anyway, plenty of companies charge more after Midnight, why shouldn't I?

(Cue the next tirade about how I'm a DJ and it's my job to work late...:D )

[rob1963]

It's a fair question and one I have toyed with for a while, do I allow for 5 hours full stop or do I have a limit (i.e. up to Midnight)?

The honest answer is I was judging each situation on it's own merits but recently decided I needed to set a limit so that I was being fair and giving a more consistent message, so I chose 5 hours up to Midnight.

However, I can still be flexible if I need to and as long as the figures add up.

After all, plenty of companies charge more after Midnight, why shouldn't I?



But you're a DJ, and it's your job to work late!

:rolleyes:

[Steve the DJ]

Probably not, although I still don't understand, but don't worry, I'm a bit thick!

:daft:

Don't be too hard on yourself, maybe I am miss judging things, it is my pricing structure after all and makes perfect sense to me! :)

Obviously most of us will do things differently and charge in ways that we see fit. I just made the decision to come up with a basic figure of what I needed to earn for a job and what the basic parameters within that fee were.

Then everything over and above the basic parameters, be it mileage, hours, PA etc. is charged as an extra.

I know what I have allowed for and if someone wants to carry on for a while longer and I have already accounted for it then fine, no problem. If I haven't accounted for it then they need to pay.

Maybe we should try and get back to why we are undervalued rather than try to work out the inner workings of my pricing structure? :D


But you're a DJ, and it's your job to work late!

:rolleyes:

I'll line them up...

:lol:

[Have a disco]

Are Djs less valued nowadays?

Gonna have to agree with the first post we are less valued as entertainers more than ever thanks to

A: Prices (lack of matching most other incomes in last 20 years)
B; Technology (the jumps here, have made us less required as professionals any joe bloggs can be a dj now)
C; We are treated as the scum of the entertainment world (even the industry refuses to a degree to accept us in there union)
D; we knock each other, to a point that nearly everywhere rivalry is rife rather than comradeship
E the music industry uses us to promote them, then accuses us of stealing even when we all basically do is constantly advertise for them for nothing???

This is my point of view and may seem very inept but in reality it so very true

[rob1963]

Maybe we should try and get back to why we are undervalued rather than try to work out the inner workings of my pricing structure?

Point taken, but I've already said that we ARE more undervalued these days, as well as giving the reasons for this way back in post #3

:D

[Steve the DJ]

This is my point of view and may seem very inept but in reality it so very true

Seems reasonable to me.


Point taken, but I've already said that we ARE more undervalued these days, as well as giving the reasons for this way back in post #3

:D

You did indeed, and I agree with every point.

So what are we all going to do about it?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Don't be too hard on yourself, maybe I am miss judging things, it is my pricing structure after all and makes perfect sense to me! :)



And to me as mine seems to be exactly the same.

(Were you taking notes when we had that drink?) :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

D; we knock each other, to a point that nearly everywhere rivalry is rife rather than comradeship



Maybe in Badger world....

I've never had problems like that either online or in the 'real world'. I work with other local companies and have done for years.

[Steve the DJ]

And to me as mine seems to be exactly the same.

(Were you taking notes when we had that drink?) :D

I thought it was about time I learned from a master... ;) :D

[rob1963]

we are less valued as entertainers more than ever thanks to

A: Prices (lack of matching most other incomes in last 20 years)

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Having just done some checking, I've discovered that since I started in 1984 inflation has increased by 100%, but my prices have increased by 500%.

Have incomes in other jobs gone up by more than that then?

[Corabar Steve]

I doubt very much whether you have got people dosi-do ing and spinning their partners round etc Steve. :p

Nor does Alan :sj: :sj: :sj: :sj:


Sorry-im not being clear--yes I include plenty of Barn Dances in my Wedding gigs so people get pretty tired out:D

Steve--were those nice Scottish people on their knees before I handed over the other week---or not:D :D :D

CRAZY KYes, unfortunately they then sat down.



D; we knock each other, to a point that nearly everywhere rivalry is rife rather than comradeshipThat's only in the Haverhill area. :sj:

E the music industry uses us to promote them, then accuses us of stealing even when we all basically do is constantly advertise for them for nothing???http://planetsmilies.net/tired-sleeping-smiley-17374.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[PropellerHeadCase]

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Having just done some checking, I've discovered that since I started in 1984 inflation has increased by 100%, but my prices have increased by 500%.

Have incomes in other jobs gone up by more than that then?

Given that recent figures give inflation as 2.5% when in real terms they are nearer 7.5% it's no surprise that your real income out-strips the publicised inflation figure to that degree. Bear in mind that for no sensible reason things like flat screen TVs are included in inflation calculations when we know that tech items always launch at new product prices and quickly reduce proportionate to their penetration of the market. Proper inflation figures should only include daily, weekly, fortnightly, monthly and possibly quarterly household purchases/expenses.

[rob1963]

we knock each other, to a point that nearly everywhere rivalry is rife rather than comradeship

Maybe you are more guilty of that than most.

I remember your recent reaction & comments when starting a thread about a DJ near you who had his gear stolen.

[Have a disco]

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Having just done some checking, I've discovered that since I started in 1984 inflation has increased by 100%, but my prices have increased by 500%.

Have incomes in other jobs gone up by more than that then?

When I quote disco's in 1989 the price for a public house venue was £100 its still basically the same???

Now private venues are not really much different your really looking at £150 - £200 in 1989 now its basically only £185 - £250 hardly a 100% increase for a nights work more like 25%

Ask an established plumber how much there prices were in 1989 compared to now for example???? there callout charge has gone up by at least 200%

Your prices have probably gone up through customer demand of yourself personally????


Maybe you are more guilty of that than most.

I remember your recent reaction & comments when starting a thread about a DJ near you who had his gear stolen.

Fact the guy has NO PLI nor pat tested equipment, uses pirated copy music, even though I have tried to promote good practice he still tries to carry on being a pirate. Im sick of these kid of guys sucking the blood out of my industry giving me a bad name??? If not more of you

[Corabar Steve]

Im sick of these kid of guys sucking the blood out of my industry giving me a bad name???

That explains it all



Im sick of these kid of guys sucking the blood out of my industry giving me a bad name??? If not more of you

I've read this quote several times now & it appears to me that it is a dig at someone. Play nice now, or it's off to the Badger cage for you.

[rob1963]

When I quote disco's in 1989 the price for a public house venue was £100 its still basically the same???

Now private venues are not really much different your really looking at £150 - £200 in 1989 now its basically only £185 - £250 hardly a 100% increase for a nights work more like 25%

Ask an established plumber how much there prices were in 1989 compared to now for example???? there callout charge has gone up by at least 200%



I guess things are different in Haverhill, then, as often seems to be the case, because my own prices are now five times higher than they were when I first started, although I have to admit I don't do pub gigs apart from private parties in their function rooms. If the prices are THAT low, it's just as well!


Your prices have probably gone up through customer demand of yourself personally????

I'd love to be able to agree with that, but I can't.

The fact is that most people who book me are new customers who have seen my site (including my prices) through my online advertising on various wedding directories, made an enquiry (usually by email) and gone on to book my services...presumably because they like my website and also the way and speed at which I deal with their enquiry.


Fact the guy has NO PLI nor pat tested equipment, uses pirated copy music, even though I have tried to promote good practice he still tries to carry on being a pirate. Im sick of these kid of guys sucking the blood out of my industry giving me a bad name??? If not more of you

But having PLI & PAT testing aren't even legal requirements.

It's obviously wrong to have pirated music, but I was just surprised to see you moan about DJs knocking each other instead of having comradeship, when (judging from some of your posts) that seems to be something you are more guilty of than many others on this forum.

[soundtracker]

So that's you told!

[rob1963]

So that's you told!

:sofa:

[soundtracker]

:sofa:

LOL!:D :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

When I quote disco's in 1989 the price for a public house venue was £100 its still basically the same???



Don't work in pubs then. Market your services to a higher paying section.

[rob1963]

When I quote disco's in 1989 the price for a public house venue was £100 its still basically the same???


Don't work in pubs then. Market your services to a higher paying section.

Exactly what I was thinking!

There's no way I'd work for the same money I was getting 20 years ago!

[Dragonfly]

Exactly what I was thinking!

There's no way I'd work for the same money I was getting 20 years ago!

£1 a week pocket money I was 11 ;) :D :D :D i'm getting just over 4x what i was when i first started in the business.

[Excalibur]

£1 a week pocket money I was 11 ;) :D :D :D i'm getting just over 4x what i was when i first started in the business.

£4.25 a week, blimey I thought I was cheap! :eek:

[CRAZY K]

£4.25 a week, blimey I thought I was cheap! :eek:

You walked into that one Dave:D :D :D

Some cheeky ..........actually said the other week--oh I thought someone would do my event cheap for a bit of extra pocket money---its only a couple of hours---

Did I put the phone down on them--cant remember:rolleyes:

Probably:D

CRAZY K

[Have a disco]

This site like many sites is a forum for disscussion (I was considering spelling that right LOL) Im not diss ing you guys but my comments in my first post are spot on regardless of where I live I know of several disco's country wide and prices have been held down for years. its either take the business that is available or you wont survive? As a mobile/Club DJ the basic fee to pay a DJ is still £50 I have worked for many people and have obviously been paid more when doing club work but Mobile work has not moved in years so yes the DJs less valued nowadays?
Its a shame that things were not better but how many older DJ's do you see doing pub disco's not many???

[soundtracker]

This site like many sites is a forum for disscussion (I was considering spelling that right LOL) Im not diss ing you guys but my comments in my first post are spot on regardless of where I live I know of several disco's country wide and prices have been held down for years. its either take the business that is available or you wont survive? As a mobile/Club DJ the basic fee to pay a DJ is still £50 I have worked for many people and have obviously been paid more when doing club work but Mobile work has not moved in years so yes the DJs less valued nowadays?
Its a shame that things were not better but how many older DJ's do you see doing pub disco's not many???

and in English???????????????

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

This site like many sites is a forum for disscussion (I was considering spelling that right LOL) Im not diss ing you guys but my comments in my first post are spot on regardless of where I live I know of several disco's country wide and prices have been held down for years. its either take the business that is available or you wont survive? As a mobile/Club DJ the basic fee to pay a DJ is still £50 I have worked for many people and have obviously been paid more when doing club work but Mobile work has not moved in years so yes the DJs less valued nowadays?
Its a shame that things were not better but how many older DJ's do you see doing pub disco's not many???

Sorry, but your comments are not spot on. They relate to you and you only. There are plenty of people getting well paid work all over the country and they don't have to fight each other for it, they work together.

I have given and received work to guys on here around the country, near and far, and why? Because we work together.

I'm nto sure where you get your figures from either? £50 for a basic fee for mobile and club?

[theoloyla]

It's just Badger.:rolleyes:

[Excalibur]

Sorry, but your comments are not spot on. They relate to you and you only. There are plenty of people getting well paid work all over the country and they don't have to fight each other for it, they work together.

I have given and received work to guys on here around the country, near and far, and why? Because we work together.

I'm nto sure where you get your figures from either? £50 for a basic fee for mobile and club?

I have to agree with you Darren, I don't know what life is like in Badger's territory, but round here we try to help each other and the customers. I've met some great folk through here, and had no shortage of help in many ways.
There may be some debate over prices, but this often relates to the area, and the venue. There are some I know of paying not a lot, but this is often because the gig is a walk in.

[rob1963]

I have to agree with you Darren, I don't know what life is like in Badger's territory, but round here we try to help each other and the customers. I've met some great folk through here, and had no shortage of help in many ways.
There may be some debate over prices, but this often relates to the area, and the venue. There are some I know of paying not a lot, but this is often because the gig is a walk in.

:agree:

[Have a disco]

It's just Badger.:rolleyes:

Look guys Im trying to get on with you all, but you keep coming up with unecessary cutting remarks just like this which is wholy un needed

No none of you actually live in Haverhill and Yes Im probably not the most liked guy in town DJ wise, but I am continuing to uphold certain ethics that the NADJ and MDD would approve of with, but all to no avail

I would say these things to your faces if in person but due to the forum rules I think there would be all out fighting or beating me up.

Some of those righteous comments made about me must stop immediately. Not all of us here are as successfull with there small shows and do not have 8 disco's out every weekend night.

My point is that prices have been held down for 20 years at least, and maybe we should not expect to be so valued as we used to be, in days of old??? DJing is so easy to get into as a career, mobile DJing even easier we have lost alot of respect from all angles...

As for my failure to puntuate I apologise, my speed of typing don't help me sometimes. I wish to get on with you all so please stop sniping at me over the smallest thing

[rob1963]

Look guys Im trying to get on with you all, but you keep coming up with unecessary cutting remarks just like this which is wholy un needed

Badger, with all due respect people are just commenting on what you have said, and if you don't want that to happen, a forum might not be the best place to hang out!


I would say these things to your faces if in person but due to the forum rules I think there would be all out fighting or beating me up.

Now who is making unnecessary cutting & unneeded remarks?

That comment was a clear suggestion that you think the people on this forum are no better than a gang of thugs out to beat people up, which is completely ridiculous.


Not all of us here are as successfull with there small shows and do not have 8 disco's out every weekend night.

That looks like a knock at multi-ops.

Now where have I heard THAT before?

:rolleyes:

[soundtracker]

My point is that prices have been held down for 20 years at least, and maybe we should not expect to be so valued as we used to be, in days of old??? DJing is so easy to get into as a career, mobile DJing even easier we have lost alot of respect from all angles...

As for my failure to puntuate I apologise, my speed of typing don't help me sometimes. I wish to get on with you all so please stop sniping at me over the smallest thing

But prices haven't been held down for 20 years! Only by the mentality that says "you'll never get more than £200 around here" which I hear on a weekly basis in my local DJ emporium!
As for the punctuation, if you don't punctuate correctly, it is easy for your posts to be incorrectly interpreted! e.g Wanted Piano for old lady with carved legs.

[Ace DJ]

Until the day when all DJ's work to the same business standards and sing from the same hymn book we will always be undervalued and taken advantage of. "Oh!! Its alright he's only the DJ" attitude by the general public.
Because the punter knows if you don't play their way they will always go to to the next DJ who will.
We all ought to be like the Gas industry for fitting domestic boilers. If you ain't Corgy registered you can't fit them.

IE:
Doing no more freebies for no-matter who. Because you are being taken for a ride. Then it becomes expected.
All bringing our T&C's into line. As if written by a businessman not a 5 year old. In plain to the point concise English
Sticking to what you say in your agreement terms. If someone cancells. You charge them!!!!.
Always taking an advance payment of at least £75 minimun. and the balance to be always paid 14 days prior to the event. No more cash on the night. This always makes it look so partime hobbie and non-business like.
Always play the same game with PLI PAT Income Tax Statatory Insurance etc.
Keeping proper business records.
The list could go on and on and on for any form of standardisation.
Would anybody care to add to the list
Ace.

[Steve the DJ]

...Would anybody care to add to the list...

A minimum wage/fee and 7 day payment terms for any DJ working via an agent...

[rob1963]

Until the day when all DJ's work to the same business standards and sing from the same hymn book we will always be undervalued and taken advantage of. "Oh!! Its alright he's only the DJ" attitude by the general public.
Because the punter knows if you don't play their way they will always go to to the next DJ who will.
We all ought to be like the Gas industry for fitting domestic boilers. If you ain't Corgy registered you can't fit them.

IE:
Doing no more freebies for no-matter who. Because you are being taken for a ride. Then it becomes expected.
All bringing our T&C's into line. As if written by a businessman not a 5 year old. In plain to the point concise English
Sticking to what you say in your agreement terms. If someone cancells. You charge them!!!!.
Always taking an advance payment of at least £75 minimun. and the balance to be always paid 14 days prior to the event. No more cash on the night. This always makes it look so partime hobbie and non-business like.
Always play the same game with PLI PAT Income Tax Statatory Insurance etc.
Keeping proper business records.
The list could go on and on and on for any form of standardisation.
Would anybody care to add to the list
Ace.

Interesting ideas Ace, but you will never get to the day when all DJs work to the same standards & sing from the same song sheet.

The reason is simple. The industry has many different types of operatives. There are the full time professionals, semi-professionals, part time DJs, Hobby DJs and cowboys...as well as everything in between. All have different priorities & standards, and I don't really see that changing much.

As for all working to the same standards, with the same prices, same terms & conditions, same payment options etc, I'm not sure if this is a good idea. If we were all really similar, we would be clones, and customers would have little reason to choose disco A over disco B, C or D.

[Steve the DJ]

As for all working to the same standards, with the same prices, same terms & conditions, same payment options etc, I'm not sure if this is a good idea. If we were all really similar, customers would have little reason to choose disco A over disco B, C or D.

Yes they would, thinks like:

- Ability
- Attitude
- Service
- Professionalism
- Style
- Presentation
- Music Selection
- Experience

[rob1963]

Yes they would, thinks like:

- Ability
- Attitude
- Service
- Professionalism
- Style
- Presentation
- Music Selection
- Experience

Ok, I will re-phrase.

They would have LESS reason to choose Disco A over Disco B, C or D than they do now.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Look guys Im trying to get on with you all, but you keep coming up with unecessary cutting remarks just like this which is wholy un needed

Then stop spouting such rubbish. Doesn't it make you wonder why people make comments to you?


No none of you actually live in Haverhill and Yes Im probably not the most liked guy in town DJ wise, but I am continuing to uphold certain ethics that the NADJ and MDD would approve of with, but all to no avail

I am glad you uphold these ethics, but you don't have to live in Haverhill to do that. There are 1001 small towns round the UK where people have the same problems - why is Haverhill so special?


I would say these things to your faces if in person but due to the forum rules I think there would be all out fighting or beating me up.

No there wouldn't. What has that got to do with disagreeing with you?


Some of those righteous comments made about me must stop immediately. Not all of us here are as successfull with there small shows and do not have 8 disco's out every weekend night..

You are right, some of these comments must stop, especially the pathetic jealous ones about successful multi-ops, which are unwarranted and unneeded.




As for my failure to puntuate I apologise, my speed of typing don't help me sometimes. I wish to get on with you all so please stop sniping at me over the smallest thing


Then take people's advise and read what you post before you hit the reply button.

[Corabar Steve]

I don't know what life is like in Badger's territoryI do & there is work to be had there. Some of our several DJs out at weekend nights have worked over that way quite often (usually in well paid wedding receptions, strangly most of our clients over that way have usually specified that they don't want screens / Peter Kay type set ups)


No none of you actually live in Haverhill No, but as said above, I have worked in the area on numerous occasions.



I would say these things to your faces if in person but due to the forum rules I think there would be all out fighting or beating me up. That sounds like fighting talk pardner:cowboy:


Not all of us here are as successfull with there small shows and do not have 8 disco's out every weekend night. http://planetsmilies.net/tired-sleeping-smiley-17374.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)


My point is that prices have been held down for 20 years at least,Don't talk rot! Corabar Entertainment has been in existance for 10+ years, we have never charged as low as what you've quoted & put our prices up every couple of years as the need arises
and maybe we should not expect to be so valued as we used to be, in days of old??? DJing is so easy to get into as a career, mobile DJing even easier we have lost alot of respect from all angles...A good DJ will always be valued, but a bad one will drag the rest of us down with them.


As for my failure to puntuate I apologise, my speed of typing don't help me sometimes. I wish to get on with you all so please stop sniping at me over the smallest thing Well slow down & then read what you've typed before hitting the submit button


EDIT: I started typing this nearly an hour ago, but got called away. Sorry if I've repeated any of Darrren's post.

[Have a disco]

Just read this after a nights DJing and again the forum moderators snipe at need I say anything else CLICQUE goes the mouse????

I have ONE disco for good reasons LESS HASSLE been there done it before??

[Corabar Entertainment]

Long time no 'speak'.

I'm sorry to see that things haven't changed Badger.

What right have you to continually complain about people 'sniping' at you, when almost every post you make is a thinly veiled dig at the owners / moderators of this site?

If we are all so dreadful, why bother coming on here?

[Corabar Steve]

I have ONE disco for good reasons LESS HASSLE been there done it before??

If that is the case, then why oh why do you continually bang on about only having one disco & how good the multi ops do compared to you?

If you're happy doing what you do, then get on with it & leave the big boys to do their thing.


Actually, having just re-read the above quote, I think I've hit the nail on the head. You're a failed multi op aren't you?
been there done it before??All becomes clear now, that's why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about companies with multiple DJs.

[PropellerHeadCase]

My point is that prices have been held down for 20 years at least, and maybe we should not expect to be so valued as we used to be, in days of old??? DJing is so easy to get into as a career, mobile DJing even easier we have lost alot of respect from all angles...

If you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always got(ten).

In the year (plus) that I have been on this forum the basic content of your posts hasn't changed even slightly - for everyone's sake (most especially your own) take a critical look at what you do, DJing-wise, then set-up a shell company that markets your re-evaluated services under a new name at the price you want and see how the bookings go under that name. This will allow you to experiment with the concept without damaging your existing business.

[Corabar Steve]

What an excelent idea Alan.

[rob1963]

What an excellent idea Alan.

:agree:

[theoloyla]

Or like I said in another thread stop doing mobiles and concentrate on club work which seems to be what you are most interested in. Club dj's in major connurbations earn very good money; so if there is no money to be had working Haverhill pubs (which I am quite prepared to believe coz there is no money to be made working pubs anywhere) move to a new market.

[PropellerHeadCase]

True, Theo, I DJed in Bristol the last two nights for about 90 minutes each time and have 120 quid (and a few tasty local brews on the night) for my trouble - pretty good when you consider that I had NO material so when I got the call on Friday night I dashed into Tescos and spent 60 quid just to have some music).

[Have a disco]

If only ther were some Nightclubs in Haverhill I would, but lack of transport is an issue. Hiring the van I use is for mobile disco work only???.

I am currently saving for a car. I am multi diversive business not just in Mobile DJ work, I Hire myself out for Club DJ work and emergency DJ/Disco cover as well and also do Karaoke nights. Im not sitting on my laurels as could be said.............

I am slowly moving towards a new market but as ever all the markets are flooded with wannabes not professionals?? Which is making things even tougher

[Danno13]

I am slowly moving towards a new market but as ever all the markets are flooded with wannabes not professionals?? Which is making things even tougher

Yeah.. its everyone else's fault. You could get a taxi to club gigs!

[Tom]

I am slowly moving towards a new market but as ever all the markets are flooded with wannabes not professionals?? Which is making things even tougher

Which is???

[Have a disco]

Well paid Mobile Disco's weddings and birthdays

that is what they still do??

Sorry KMA seemed silly comment nothing personal. I dont think anyone sticks to just one format of disco if they were honest

[theoloyla]

A friend of mine is a doorman at a top club in Maidstone. He tells me that their dj's earn £300 per night. Like the man says - get a taxi!