Digital DJ's vs Other Format DJ's

[Candybeatdiscos]

Ok Debate open.

As per another thread I see that some DJ's frown upon digital DJ's etc , so how about a debate on this....Mr Weetabix do you wanna start things off? (after all your idea lol)



I would be happy to debate "digital DJs" and any "attitude" I or others may have towards them, but that is for another thread in another section. It would actually make an interesting debate as there is obvious ill-feeling between the two and I would be interested to hear people's views/comments on the matter.

[Penfold42]

Attitude.....:confused:

I have no 'attitude' against other DJ's be it CD / Laptop or Music console.....after all, we are in the same business.

..or am i missing something here......:)

[Vectis]

I'm a 100% Digital DJ and have been 100% for over 3 years, 50% or more for about 6 or 7 years. I have no prejudices against other types of DJs as I've worked my way through the vinyl, cassette, CD, minidisc years myself.

These days a successful (read "well paid") mobile DJ specialising in weddings and other private functions needs to deliver a much more 'rounded' service in order to stand apart from the £100 Joes. This is what, in my experience, many modern-day customers want. Sure, they're hiring a disco because they want a broad selection of music, or because the band can't physically play for 5 or 6 hours BUT they want more. This isn't a thread about service offerings so I'll leave it there.

My point is that by "being digital" I can service the needs of my target market much better than previously, primarily because I have more time available to take care of other aspects of the event, and secondarily because I can be more responsive to the needs and whims of the hosts and their guests on the night. For example, I can take the online requests placed by guests over the course of several months before the party and preload these as a playlist to act as reference points throughout the course of the evening, and infill according to the reading of the crowd on arrival. Time (and stress) saved can be injected elsewhere into other value-add activities.

I have been known to drag a pair of turntables and a stack of vinyl out of the loft and to a gig as recently as last year, just because a customer specifically requested it... and paid extra for it.

[Shaun]

We all know that digital dj's aren't real dj's. In the "old days" a little bit of technical skill was needed. There was no beat counters, no auto mix functions, No effects buttons (to get a flanger effect we had to do it the hard way with 2 of the same vinyl). To be a real DJ you should be breaking your back carrying boxes of big black 12" pieces of grooved plastic. To be a real DJ you should have perfected the phrase "Shabba".

Of course I'm speaking crap, which is exactly what this kind of debate fundamentally is. :d

[Sam]

We use a mix.
Mostly play from CDs though - all depends on the party type really.

[djdarren]

personally speaking i dont think it matters, as long as your a top entertainer what does it matter about where your music is playing from.

i use a laptop myself simply because its smaller and easier to search for tracks you get asked for and dont play that oftern.... meaning i have more time to interact with the crowd

[Penfold42]

We all know that digital dj's aren't real dj's. In the "old days" a little bit of technical skill was needed. There was no beat counters, no auto mix functions, No effects buttons (to get a flanger effect we had to do it the hard way with 2 of the same vinyl). To be a real DJ you should be breaking your back carrying boxes of big black 12" pieces of grooved plastic. To be a real DJ you should have perfected the phrase "Shabba".

Of course I'm speaking crap, which is exactly what this kind of debate fundamentally is. :d

:agree:....with Mr Gumpy Guts! :D

[DJWayne]

We all know that digital dj's aren't real dj's. In the "old days" a little bit of technical skill was needed. There was no beat counters, no auto mix functions, No effects buttons (to get a flanger effect we had to do it the hard way with 2 of the same vinyl). To be a real DJ you should be breaking your back carrying boxes of big black 12" pieces of grooved plastic. To be a real DJ you should have perfected the phrase "Shabba".

Of course I'm speaking crap, which is exactly what this kind of debate fundamentally is. :d

Am wiping coffee off my screen after reading that quality post :D

[MrWeetabix]

Thanks for the debate string! :D

I am 90% CD and 10% laptop, because that is what I am comfortable with and that is how I feel I work best within my target market. I have bar-based residencies and I know the setup well.

Can I first of all say I have no problem at all with DJs who use laptops. I appreciate it is a tool and a format which i used to deliver the same service I proide, no better, no worse.

The website refered to says that "we don't want play list managers". This is with reference to a new crop of "DJs" (I'll use that term very loosely) who turn up with nothing more than a laptop and software with "automix" enabled and state "I’m a DJ". I am sure we've all seen them? Or is this just a Northern problem? You may have a driving licence and a car, but it doesn’t make you a racing driver...right? Well, boy racers may think otherwise!

I've seen "DJs" turn up at venues, plug in their laptop and just stand there, requests are simply "dropped in" to the play list, without any thought of how they sound, how they mix, the tempo, the feeling, nothing. Occasional "shout outs" given, but nothing more over and above that. I think this is where a lot of the apparent ill feeling comes from.

I have no issue with a DJ using a laptop who is actually worthy of the title. They have "served their time" as you will, they know how its done and they appreciate the art and skills involved, but merely use the laptop to further those skills and abilities and better serve their customers through wide choice and immediate access to tracks. That just makes sense!

Technology is changing and its crazy to stand still and refuse to change with it, but I am sure we all love the job we do and we have a genuine appreciating for what’s involved, with mutual respect for others in the industry. Its just a shame that the minority spoil it for the majority.

At the end of the day, we are entertainers, we are there to entertain our customers by whichever means possible. Its horses for courses and we each play on our individual skill sets to achieve this. Digital, CD, Vinyl or whatever, as long as the music is pumping and the crowd are smiling, singing and dancing, does it really matter?


Peace Kids, be happy...:)

[UltraBeat Entertainment]

I currently use a mix of laptop but still mostly use CD's.

OK lets stoke the fire:rolleyes:...

Call me old fashioned but I think using CD's can be more reliable (when was the last time you had a CD crash???) and to the client and guests using CD's is more "involved" and "hands on" and looks better than you just stood their with your arms folded deciding what you are having for tea later. You can't replace the headphones on, loading CD's in the draw and flicking through your collection with typing on the keyboard and clicking "Play".

Anyone can stand their and push the play button every few minutes can't they? and if they do are they really "DJing"? So does that make them a DJ?

And these days they don't even have to click play, they mix the tracks together for you:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I've seen "DJs" turn up at venues, plug in their laptop and just stand there, requests are simply "dropped in" to the play list, without any thought of how they sound, how they mix, the tempo, the feeling, nothing. Occasional "shout outs" given, but nothing more over and above that. I think this is where a lot of the apparent ill feeling comes from.



And is this any different from a person putting CDs on?

[DJWayne]

Thanks for the debate string! :D

I am 90% CD and 10% laptop, because that is what I am comfortable with and that is how I feel I work best within my target market. I have bar-based residencies and I know the setup well.

Can I first of all say I have no problem at all with DJs who use laptops. I appreciate it is a tool and a format which i used to deliver the same service I proide, no better, no worse.

The website refered to says that "we don't want play list managers". This is with reference to a new crop of "DJs" (I'll use that term very loosely) who turn up with nothing more than a laptop and software with "automix" enabled and state "I’m a DJ". I am sure we've all seen them? Or is this just a Northern problem? You may have a driving licence and a car, but it doesn’t make you a racing driver...right? Well, boy racers may think otherwise!

I've seen "DJs" turn up at venues, plug in their laptop and just stand there, requests are simply "dropped in" to the play list, without any thought of how they sound, how they mix, the tempo, the feeling, nothing. Occasional "shout outs" given, but nothing more over and above that. I think this is where a lot of the apparent ill feeling comes from.

I have no issue with a DJ using a laptop who is actually worthy of the title. They have "served their time" as you will, they know how its done and they appreciate the art and skills involved, but merely use the laptop to further those skills and abilities and better serve their customers through wide choice and immediate access to tracks. That just makes sense!

...:)

Hmm seems like a bit of a U turn IMO

the website states the following criteria are required

Mixing ability
Use of microphone
Crowd interaction
Music selection
Personal appearance
Ability to follow venue brief

Don't take a genius to figure out only 1 of those could be influenced by a laptop with automix the rest are down to the real abilities of the DJ and anyone with no skills would soon be exposed so the justification doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Personally I am as happy behind a set of turntables as i am a laptop I have worked through 3 or 4 different formats with no problems I just think some peoples preconcieved ideas of a DJ with a laptop is way off.

[MrWeetabix]

Hmm seems like a bit of a U turn IMO

the website states the following criteria are required

Mixing ability
Use of microphone
Crowd interaction
Music selection
Personal appearance
Ability to follow venue brief

Don't take a genius to figure out only 1 of those could be influenced by a laptop with automix the rest are down to the real abilities of the DJ and anyone with no skills would soon be exposed so the justification doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Personally I am as happy behind a set of turntables as i am a laptop I have worked through 3 or 4 different formats with no problems I just think some peoples preconcieved ideas of a DJ with a laptop is way off.

Can we move away from the rigths and wrongs of that particular competition and its rules? They were set for a reason and whatever your opinion on them, thats hows its being run. It was a decsion made between the venue maagers, I serve my customers and saying as they are not here to defend their views, I think its unfair to question their choice.

No u-turn made in my eyes, where did I actually say Digital Djs were not better than CD Djs?

It really is amazing how much this issue stirs you guys up! :eek:


And is this any different from a person putting CDs on?

Yes, very different.

I come into avenue with no major preconceptions of what I am going to play. You play to a mood rather than a playlist, selecting and dropping tracks accordingly depending on crowd reaction, whats gonig on in the bar, demographic and sometimes dropping something completely off-track just to throw people off and take the night in a different direction. All my venues have a promedia for their daytime music, if it wasn't any different I wouldnt have a job.

I was talking about my experience of "some DJs". I am in no way saying all digital djs come in with a concrete playlist and are wooden. I can only speak from the experiences I have had, which sadly, have been poor ones.

I'm sure you'd "rock my socks off" if you were playing...

Seems like you know your onions...nuff respc innit? ha-ha

[DJWayne]

I come into avenue with no major preconceptions of what I am going to play. You play to a mood rather than a playlist, selecting and dropping tracks accordingly depending on crowd reaction, whats gonig on in the bar, demographic and sometimes dropping something completely off-track just to throw people off and take the night in a different direction. All my venues have a promedia for their daytime music, if it wasn't any different I wouldnt have a job.

I was talking about my experience of "some DJs". I am in no way saying all digital djs come in with a concrete playlist and are wooden. I can only speak from the experiences I have had, which sadly, have been poor ones.

I'm sure you'd "rock my socks off" if you were playing...

Seems like you know your onions...nuff respc innit? ha-ha

Most DJ's on here don't play any differently on laptop than they would CD i have never got more than 1 track ahead in my playlist and certainly don't have any predefined playlists i use as every night is different. Your experience is not reflective of the professional digital DJ's on this forum hence why you have had a frosty response.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I come into avenue with no major preconceptions of what I am going to play. You play to a mood rather than a playlist, selecting and dropping tracks accordingly depending on crowd reaction, whats gonig on in the bar, demographic and sometimes dropping something completely off-track just to throw people off and take the night in a different direction.

And this differs how to what a laptop DJ would do?


I was talking about my experience of "some DJs".


In which case you must have had "some" CD and vinly DJs who were the same. Why limit it to laptop DJs?

[MrWeetabix]

Most DJ's on here don't play any differently on laptop than they would CD i have never got more than 1 track ahead in my playlist and certainly don't have any predefined playlists i use as every night is different. Your experience is not reflective of the professional digital DJ's on this forum hence why you have had a frosty response.

Fair play, but I have never said that my experience is reflective of ANY DJ on this forum, as I am sure if they have actually taken the time to find this forum, they are 100% professional DJs, who care and have put a lot of effort in to their work, and are very much NOT playlist managers, but are truely entertainers in every sense of the word. I use a laptop, its a tool, same as CD decks, Vinyl, casette, arseflute or whatever.

I was just trying to state that it is my opinion that Digital DJs have been lumbered with a negative image because of these "kids" who get a laptop, fill it with limewire music and call themselves DJs after downloading Virtual DJ...

I have a hammer, does that make me a carpenter?

A DJ is more than the sum of his hard drive, or CD/Vinyl bag for that matter, which is essentially the crux of my argument. Alebit, being missed by some :(

Its good to see so many people commenting though, this is a debate which needs to be aired in order to help people changetheir views of digital DJs.


And this differs how to what a laptop DJ would do?



In which case you must have had "some" CD and vinly DJs who were the same. Why limit it to laptop DJs?

I can see the point you're making and its a valid one. I guess what I am trying to say, is its easier to "think" your a DJ with a laptop, than it is with CDs. Its a lot easier to get setup and get going with the digital format, which is why we have the problem of these people all of a sudden declaing themselves DJs without any actual real experience. They will be exposed for what they are eventually, talentless playlist managers, but the damage is done sadly for those of use who actually use digital formats as the tool they are and not the "make me a dj" way they are abused.

Does that make sense?

[DJWayne]

Fair play, but I have never said that my experience is reflective of ANY DJ on this forum, .

No you said it was your experiences of laptop DJ's which IMO was tarring us all with the same brush.



I was just trying to state that it is my opinion that Digital DJs have been lumbered with a negative image because of these "kids" who get a laptop, fill it with limewire music and call themselves DJs after downloading Virtual DJ....

Nothing wrong with virtual DJ in the right hands but the type of DJ you are talking about exists on CD as well nothing stopping them buying a cheap twin CD player and burning their illegally obtained music to CD.



A DJ is more than the sum of his hard drive, or CD/Vinyl bag for that matter, which is essentially the crux of my argument. Alebit, being missed by some :(



Not missed by anyone assumptions were made by some people who have negative experiences of digital DJ's and these things are hard to shake off a good DJ is a good DJ regardless of the format he chooses to work in. But the vinyl DJ's snipe the CD DJ's and the CD DJ's snipe the digital DJ's and thats where all this stems from.

[MrWeetabix]

Example...

a local "DJ Agency" takes on young lads/lasses. They lease them a laptop and a 300gig HDD with mucis on and then farm them out to venues. They get away with this because they charge peanuts for the work and pay the lads/lesses even less. How does £40 for a 6 hour shift sound? :bang: The venues benefit from low DJ outgoings intially (lets not consider the damage done to their reputation at this stage), so they think they're on a winner straight off. The venue may actually get an experienced DJ for a few weeks to get them on borad, but then they get the kids after that.

I know what your thinking, they'll be seen for what they really are, kids with laptops, not DJs, which of course they will, but not before a hell of a lot of punters see them out there and form their opinions of "digital djs" without really understanding the difference.

This is what's happening in Tyne & Wear and I hope for everyone's sake, its not reflective of whats goign on nationally.

[MrWeetabix]

But the vinyl DJ's snipe the CD DJ's and the CD DJ's snipe the digital DJ's and thats where all this stems from.

Isn't this the way of the world? HA-HA.

Guys...great debate, loving it :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I can see the point you're making and its a valid one. I guess what I am trying to say, is its easier to "think" your a DJ with a laptop, than it is with CDs. Its a lot easier to get setup and get going with the digital format, which is why we have the problem of these people all of a sudden declaing themselves DJs without any actual real experience.

But what is the difference between that and someone who gets a load of cheap CDS and a twin CD player? That is no more difficult to set up than a laptop, in fact it is easier.

Forget the format, this problem has always been about. From the time that gear has got cheaper and cheaper, there have been plenty of wannabbes chancing their arm.

Nothing has changed in that respect - only the format.

[DJWayne]

Whether the laptop is a factor though is the issue.

I think nationwide everyone here has experience of "£50 quid sid" who has illegal music the cheapest gear ebay can supply doesnt pay tax has no PLI insurance and doesnt have a clue.

The fact someone is doing it with laptops is irrelevant its not the format thats at fault its the DJ :)

[MrWeetabix]

But what is the difference between that and someone who gets a load of cheap CDS and a twin CD player? That is no more difficult to set up than a laptop, in fact it is easier.

Forget the format, this problem has always been about. From the time that gear has got cheaper and cheaper, there have been plenty of wannabbes chancing their arm.

Nothing has changed in that respect - only the format.

Post people have a PC or laptop, most people will have internet access and most people can/have/will use p2p, giving them access to DJ software and music. Not many people would know where to go buy CD decks, mixer, etc (other than fleebay) unless they had some experience of the game.

Kid + laptop + limewire = DJ in their own eyes...

[DJWayne]

Post people have a PC or laptop, most people will have internet access and most people can/have/will use p2p, giving them access to DJ software and music. Not many people would know where to go buy CD decks, mixer, etc (other than fleebay) unless they had some experience of the game.

Kid + laptop + limewire = DJ in their own eyes...

Hmm if you want to DJ you need equipment so having a laptop on its own is no use without a mixer . amp , speakers , lights so they will soon learn where to buy kit from and when they see CD players for £150 they may well be tempted rather than lug a desktop and monitor about or spend £300 on a half decent laptop.

kid + computer + limewire = DJ in their own bedroom ;)

[MrWeetabix]

Hmm if you want to DJ you need equipment so having a laptop on its own is no use without a mixer . amp , speakers , lights so they will soon learn where to buy kit from and when they see CD players for £150 they may well be tempted rather than lug a desktop and monitor about or spend £300 on a half decent laptop.

kid + computer + limewire = DJ in their own bedroom ;)

the Guy I was talking about in an earlier post was actually workign in a nightclub! All the gear was provided by the venue, Laptop + jack/RCA, bosh!

"I can DJ me"

Understand what *text removed, click here for explanation* (http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7535) saying guys, just in my eyes, its easier to "fake it" with a laptop IMHO.

[DJWayne]

the Guy I was talking about in an earlier post was actually workign in a nightclub! All the gear was provided by the venue, Laptop + jack/RCA, bosh!

"I can DJ me"

Understand what *text removed, click here for explanation* (http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7535) saying guys, just in my eyes, its easier to "fake it" with a laptop IMHO.

This is the Mobile Disco Directory Forum so nightclub setups are not really applicable here.

Also in a club anyone who cant cut it will be exposed very quickly and will soon find work hard to come by ;)

[MrWeetabix]

This is the Mobile Disco Directory Forum so nightclub setups are not really applicable here.

Also in a club anyone who cant cut it will be exposed very quickly and will soon find work hard to come by ;)

Point taken, but at the same time, no matter if you;re mobile or club-based, these are the people who are out there playing to the public, they've never ever met you, as they've never booked yo before, but they may think twice about booking a Digital DJ after seeing the tosh these guys put on!

They are exposed to the public, therefore tarring you all with their BS.

Which is why it is so hard for digital DJs to shake the stigma.

[DJWayne]

I have never been asked by a customer what playout format i use when they make a booking so these cowboys are hurting the DJ population in general no matter what format they use :)

[groovy-nights]

What about djs who use things Like the Denon HD-2500,Numark D2 and cortex

[rob1963]

What about djs who use things Like the Denon HD-2500,Numark D2 and cortex

What about them?

Presumably they also count as digital DJs.

[MrWeetabix]

What about them?

Presumably they also count as digital DJs.

Suppose we're then getting in to the perception of a "Digital DJ"...

Is it Jack and his laptop, or Dan and his Denon HDs?

I suppose the Denon soltion is more naturalistic and whould probably be more acceptable to the "DJ Purists" ha-ha

[djdarren]

think this is going into a big gray area...

for instance i dont use a cortex or the such like however i do use a usb based mixer to get hands on feel over my sound and volume........ so am i semi digital?

i think the point is it does not matter....... its your skill and experience as a entertainer and presenter that makes you a dj not what source of music you use

[MrWeetabix]

Suppose its what punters expect to see. Using a hercules pad or similar as a VDJ inderface means your're still hands-on in a traditional sense, but obviously digitally sourced, You'd still be a "traditional DJ" in the punter's eyes.

[CRAZY K]

Suppose its what punters expect to see. Using a hercules pad or similar as a VDJ inderface means your're still hands-on in a traditional sense, but obviously digitally sourced, You'd still be a "traditional DJ" in the punter's eyes.



Just picked up on this having been River Cruising this morning in the sun--

I really must retire:D

As someone who has been using formats of every description over the years including reel to reel tape recorders as well as vinyl. mini disc and CD I dont understand the thread really.

There is no "contest" its simply people want an entertainer who can give them the music they want in a clear format--i.e. reasonable quality.

I dont think anyone cares what s being used---except perhaps DJs for some unknown reason:confused:

Certainly Digital Music is more efficient to play and find tracks required quickly--it certainly doesnt allow anyone to push buttons and be a DJ overnight--you have to know what to play and when to play it--as well as having it of course.

THERES A LOT MORE BEHIND THAT STATEMENT OF COURSE--

Nothing has actually changed from the Reel to reel days--only the playout formats which no doubt will change again :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

In case you wondered-- last year I went digital with Cortex :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[theoloyla]

There is no conflict that I am aware of.

[rob1963]

There is no "contest" its simply people want an entertainer who can give them the music they want in a clear format--i.e. reasonable quality.

I dont think anyone cares what s being used---except perhaps DJs for some unknown reason:confused: CRAZY K

:agree:

Your playout system of choice has no effect on how professional you are or what level of service you provide, so who cares?

:shrug:

[Impactdisco]

The website refered to says that "we don't want play list managers". This is with reference to a new crop of "DJs" (I'll use that term very loosely) who turn up with nothing more than a laptop and software with "automix" enabled and state "I’m a DJ".

I've seen "DJs" turn up at venues, plug in their laptop and just stand there, requests are simply "dropped in" to the play list, without any thought of how they sound, how they mix, the tempo, the feeling, nothing. Occasional "shout outs" given, but nothing more over and above that. I think this is where a lot of the apparent ill feeling comes from.



I don't use a laptop, but I do use a computer with OTS on it and I have done for the last three years.

What you have described above could look like me or any other DJ in the country who's gone digital. I have been known to drop requests in for the next record even if it's a change of style.

In fact, I get loads of compliments about the way I'm happy to play requests asap. Yes, sometimes it makes what you're playing seem disjointed, but I've often played 45-50 requests in a night. It don't half make your guests happy that you plays as many as you can.

In fact I get referrals for that reason alone. So it may seem like I play my music with no thought, but that would be a long way from the truth.

I think that we DJs are picky when we see anyone else. I try not to be, but I often come away thinking I could do better, when the truth is I probably couldn't have.

Yes there are a lot of not very good DJs out there, and at one stage I expect most of us were part of that group, but you learn as you go and most improve. I find the ones that don't probably wouldn't join a forum as they think they know it all.

The others are, as you say, the 'bedroom dj's' of the world, but they more often than not ruin it by trying to be the superstar DJ and try all the tricks just to show how good they are.

It's nothing about digital at the end of the day, it's just about people. We're all different and you can usually tell whether you're good or bad. I do OK. I know why - I get good comments on my questionnaires, referals from satisfied clients and sometimes tips!

And personally - I don't worry about anyone else - if the client only wants to pay £100 - they don't deserve to have me anyway! (But if I was going to play for £100, there'd have to be a future benefit in my eyes or it would be because I wanted to.)

[videoguy]

think this is going into a big gray area...

for instance i dont use a cortex or the such like however i do use a usb based mixer to get hands on feel over my sound and volume........ so am i semi digital?

i think the point is it does not matter....... its your skill and experience as a entertainer and presenter that makes you a dj not what source of music you use


Here, Here!
Chris
www.chris-norfolk.co.uk

[videoguy]

Any of you "walk the room" with a radio mic! Have a bit of banter with your guests, crack a few one liners, get them on your side, tell a few jokes. I usually do 10-15 mins after the buffet before the main dance music starts....... I could'nt do this if i did'nt use my laptop.

Chris.

[BeerFunk]

Suppose we're then getting in to the perception of a "Digital DJ"...

Is it Jack and his laptop, or Dan and his Denon HDs?All of them, although the public are more likely to notice you're digital if you're using a monitor or laptop.


:agree:

Your playout system of choice has no effect on how professional you are or what level of service you provide, so who cares?

:shrug:Well, providing it does the job! No jumping CDs, MP3s that stop dead etc


Any of you "walk the room" with a radio mic! Have a bit of banter with your guests, crack a few one liners, get them on your side, tell a few jokes. I usually do 10-15 mins after the buffet before the main dance music starts....... I could'nt do this if i did'nt use my laptop.

Chris.I don't see how that is relevant to your choice of playout system? :confused:

[rob1963]

Your playout system of choice has no effect on how professional you are or what level of service you provide, so who cares?

:shrug:


Well, providing it does the job! No jumping CDs, MP3s that stop dead etc

No playout system is perfect, though...they can all have problems.

It's impossible to have CDs that always play perfectly & don't jump, CD players that never go wrong, laptops that never crash, hard drives that never have problems etc etc etc

[Shaun]

No playout system is perfect, though...they can all have problems.

It's impossible to have CDs that always play perfectly & don't jump, CD players that never go wrong, Unless you buy Denon. I've never had a CD jump or player fail when using a Denon.

Oh wait...we've already had this discussion. Ok, carry on. :d

[rob1963]

I've never had a CD jump or player fail when using a Denon.

I have.

[BeerFunk]

No playout system is perfect, though...they can all have problems.

It's impossible to have CDs that always play perfectly & don't jump, CD players that never go wrong, laptops that never crash, hard drives that never have problems etc etc etcExactly, which means that the product you buy reflects your level of professionalism. If you buy some cheap Argos all-in-one DJ solution, you will have problems, and deservedly so. If you invest in decent equipment.... well we all know this, there's no point in repeating it, is there? :)


Unless you buy Denon. I've never had a CD jump or player fail when using a Denon.

Oh wait...we've already had this discussion. Ok, carry on. :dNeither have I actually, bar one CD which had a ring scratch on it, which was made by another CD player :mad:

[groovy-nights]

Just had a lady ring me about a booking and her 1st question was.
"do you use a computer or are you a proper dj"

[rob1963]

Just had a lady ring me about a booking and her 1st question was.
"do you use a computer or are you a proper dj"

:jawdrop:

You should have asked her what the difference was!

[groovy-nights]

I replyed no we do not use a computer.She said good as she did not want someone looking at a screen all night

[Penfold42]

I replyed no we do not use a computer.She said good as she did not want someone looking at a screen all night

Why would she think someone would be looking at a screen all night??....the odd glance yes...but not all night....:)

[wensleydale]

I replyed no we do not use a computer.She said good as she did not want someone looking at a screen all night

dont understand that- its no different to looking at a cd player readout.

or using a computer for dmx lights.



and in regard to the earlier post about playlists, i dont see why that is any different to using mastermix cds- although i hate those too so whilst its not right or wrong its not my cup of tea.

ultimately this game is like anything else- you have to keep up with technology and use it to the best of your advantage- and i think the new breed of hd controllers means that i need to use one- despite being against digital for a while and still believing there is a place for cds. for the time being.

[theoloyla]

Any of you "walk the room" with a radio mic! Have a bit of banter with your guests, crack a few one liners, get them on your side, tell a few jokes. I usually do 10-15 mins after the buffet before the main dance music starts....... I could'nt do this if i did'nt use my laptop.

Chris.
Er yes I do that and Jan pushes the button on the CD player when I give her the nod. Very high tech!:)

[robbiedj]

I started in 1970, shortly after Theo. We have both done the vinyl bit and were happy to go over to cd when it became a stable system. Now I use OTSAV on a laptop. So much lighter than all those cases of music.

In over 4 years I have never been asked what format I use by clients, but I have had comments of "Wow, is that how you do it now? That's awesome"

People are impressed by the speed you can find that request, fit it in and add 1 or 2 tracks to make a set. I do have an emergency cd player, but mostly for clients cds such as when we play alongside the Irish dancers and they bring cds.

Nobody has ever suggested it wasn't proper djing. If they are enjoying the evening they don't give a :Censored: cuss

[BeerFunk]

Just had a lady ring me about a booking and her 1st question was.
"do you use a computer or are you a proper dj"That was good timing then, for the purposes of this thread! :)

[Shaun]

I replyed no we do not use a computer.She said good as she did not want someone looking at a screen all night

Reply to client:
"No we do not use a computer, so instead of looking at a screen all night we'll spend a large part of the evening with our backs to everyone looking through CD's for music"

:ph34r:

[Tom]

Very true. lol

[groovy-nights]

That was good timing then, for the purposes of this thread! :)
I was abit shocked when she said it.
I use the denon DNHD-2500

[Shaun]

I was abit shocked when she said it.
I use the denon DNHD-2500

Remember...no looking at the Denon screen that night. :ph34r:

[Penfold42]

Remember...no looking at the Denon screen that night. :ph34r:

:lol:....:D

[ppentertainments]

To stir things up a bit - If you use sound to light lighting instead of DMX will this also mean you are not a 'proper dj' ????

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I replyed no we do not use a computer.She said good as she did not want someone looking at a screen all night

But you use a Denon with software and with a screen which you'll have to look at longer to get to the correct track, unlike a computer where you can scroll through....:p

[groovy-nights]

It does not matter what you use
Mp3 You have to look at a screen
Cd's You have to look at the track list
I am just please i am already booked on the night she was after.

[Penfold42]

I am just please i am already booked on the night she was after.

I'll do it.....:p

[Shaun]

I'll do it.....:p

Didn't she state that she wanted a proper DJ?
















:ph34r: :D

[Penfold42]

Didn't she state that she wanted a proper DJ?

:eek: ...........:handbag::handbag:

[groovy-nights]

At the end of the day what does it matter what you use.As long as people enjoy themself then you have done your job.

[BeerFunk]

With regards to the 'looking at a screen all night' comment, it isn't completely unfounded. I've seen a couple of laptop DJs who seem to be so pre-occupied with their laptop the whole night, that it seens as though they aren't paying attention to the disco. That may or may not be true, but it may look that way to an observer.

[Danno13]

It takes quite alot of concentration to play hearts though, especially whilst making sure you're playlist doesn't run out.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It takes quite alot of concentration to play hearts though, especially whilst making sure you're playlist doesn't run out.

And watching the last series of Lost on DVD...:p

[Danno13]

Downloaded through the venues Wi-Fi, naturally... :D

[sleah]

Peace Kids, be happy...:)

And peace on you tooo:D Good post, BTW:)



Forget the format, this problem has always been about. From the time that gear has got cheaper and cheaper, there have been plenty of wannabbes chancing their arm.


Not strictly true. As I discussed in another thread, it is something that has really come about since digital and CD-R. Before then someone with a pirate collection had it on cassette - they would have been a teeny weeny minority.
Your spot on about since gears got cheaper though.


Kid + laptop + limewire = DJ in their own eyes...


kid + computer + limewire = DJ in their own bedroom ;)

:D How true......:D


I replyed no we do not use a computer.She said good as she did not want someone looking at a screen all night


Reply to client:
"No we do not use a computer, so instead of looking at a screen all night we'll spend a large part of the evening with our backs to everyone looking through CD's for music"

:ph34r:

Funny you should say that. About 2 years ago I was mates with a DJ at our local Chicago Rock, who use a digital playout system.
Some woman kept moaning he was looking at the screen all night and not the crowd:eek: How the hell was he supposed to see what he was doing then? Stoopid moo:rolleyes: Ironically, he's quite interactive with the crowd, won't shut up most of the time:D :D :D




It takes quite alot of concentration to play hearts though, especially whilst making sure you're playlist doesn't run out.

And watching the last series of Lost on DVD...:p

Downloaded through the venues Wi-Fi, naturally... :D

Joking apart...... the people that do this are the one's who say PC DJing is rubbish because the thing is unreliable and crashes all the time.
WONDER WHY???:bang:

[DazzyD]

I had the opposite query to Alistair.

Last month, a woman phoned me up asking about a disco for her wedding. Her first question was "What kind of speakers do you use? I hope it's not those tacky carpet-covered ones like my dad used to have when he was a DJ in the 70s!" To which I replied "No, we use modern ABS plastic cased speaker units which are sleek and not tacky at all!". Then she said "Great! So how do you play your music?" I said "How do you want me to play it? CDs or through a computer-based system?". She replied "Oh, definitely the computer - we'll be asking for lots of requests so it'll be easier for you to find them". The gig is in August - contracts are in - deposit paid - need I say more?

[Candybeatdiscos]

Ok finally caught up lol

I love playing via laptop (one day i might even upgrade to cortex or denon) as it takes seconds to find a track and slip it in, i use playlists and will happilly admit to doing so, not that i will stick to it all the time, but having a playlist of your usual play's per the function, then adding and subtracting tracks based on the crowd.....
After all playing the exact same songs two or three nights in a row would drive me nuts.

Walking the room, yes i do this, i also interact as much as i can with the crowd, a bit like a stage performer i will identify a couple of people in the audiance that i can interact with and have fun with.

All in all, i dont think that wether your digital or CD/Record based really makes a difference, cowboys are always shown up for what they are and venue's will eventually rid themselves of them, but its up to us professional DJ's to go out and keep doing what we do, i bet 90% of us will get repeat work through recommendation or someone being at our gigs, regardless if we are more expensive than £50 sid

[rob1963]

Just had a lady ring me about a booking and her 1st question was.
"do you use a computer or are you a proper dj"

I would have been able to say "I'm a proper DJ"...

...as neither an ipod or a D2 count as a computer!

:D :D :D :D :D

[Corabar Steve]

There's a first time for everything.

[rob1963]

There's a first time for everything.

Indeed!

:Laugh:

[Danno13]

I'm sure both are considered computers.. because they use a cut down form of processor, and architecture similar to a PC.

[Javlingames]

Whover says that digital DJ's are not real DJ's watch this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuGGCBinC7Y

[Impactdisco]

Whover says that digital DJ's are not real DJ's watch this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuGGCBinC7Y

Mind you that'd go down like a lead balloon and most dos I do!

[Javlingames]

Of course, but horses for coarses.

The point im trying to make is, is he less of a DJ for using a laptop?

[soundtracker]

Of course, but horses for coarses.

The point im trying to make is, is he less of a DJ for using a laptop?

Obviously!:D

[Adam_F]

A mobile DJ should use what he feels most comfortable with, as they are using it week in week out, so wants ease of use, but also something that can showcase their skills.

If your a pub or club dj I think you should be comfortable on all formats as you'd need to work from what the venue has, or provide your own.

The above link shows a great DJ with a background in turntables. He's using his skill, and applying new techniques that are now capable using laptops, taking his performances to new level.

Big name DJ's as a whole (not a mobile dj!) have had to get more technical and its all now about live remixing. You simply cannot compete to be a world class dj if you DO NOT use a laptop!! Take Norman Cook from the recent Radio One Big Weekend, he could not have performed as he did without Serato and Ableton Live. Even the use of quality effects units such as the Pioneer EFX 1000 and Roland SP 555 is becoming an essential part of the DJ booth. (anyway, thats not really specific to a mobile disco forum LoL).

[Javlingames]

Good point Adam F.

There are computer programmes which beatmix for you, all control is via the keyboard. Are these programmes keeping DJ'ing alive and taking it to a new level? Are these the programmes that our potential customers dont want us to use?

Or are programmes like Serato and Finalscratch which use modern technology but keep old skool techniques alive, more acceptible to our customers? These programmes can be used with Timecoded Vinyl or Timecoded CD or even straight off the keyboeard. These programmes do not beat mix for you. They are hands on pieces of software, which, if you suck as dj will highlight it just as if you were using real vinyl or cd's.

[Adam_F]

Good point Adam F.
There are computer programmes which beatmix for you, all control is via the keyboard. Are these programmes keeping DJ'ing alive and taking it to a new level?


It depends, in a mobile disco which is what we should be discussing, then its taking the skill away, but the DJ still has to pick the right music, and interact with the crowd. Majority of mobile gigs, the public would not know who was mixing and who wasn't, and more to the point would not care.
One thing to mention though is that the software does not have to mix for you, the button is there for your choice, and you don't need to use a keyboard, there seems to be different midi controllers being released weekly (I've got 2 pre-production models on my desk at the moment) which all keep the "hands on feel".



Or are programmes like Serato and Finalscratch which use modern technology but keep old skool techniques alive, more acceptible to our customers? These programmes can be used with Timecoded Vinyl or Timecoded CD or even straight off the keyboeard. These programmes do not beat mix for you. They are hands on pieces of software, which, if you suck as dj will highlight it just as if you were using real vinyl or cd's.


Again this hardware can do your beatmixing too, its simply a case of turning it on, so even using Serato/Tracktor/Mixvibes/Virtual Vinyl (cue)/Virtual DJ/Schaack/Torq you can sit back and watch it do it for you, all you have to do is pretend to play with the vinyl, or you can use additional skills to prepare loops, effects, hot cues etc....

But again, our customers on the whole don't really appreciate what we use, or how we use it.

[Javlingames]

Adam,

As an owner of Serato and Finalscratch I would love to know where the button is to turn on the auto beatmatching facility which allows me to sit back and watch?

[Adam_F]

Don't know off hand on Serato, I was chatting to a customer about it this morning who said he loved the feature. What software are you using with Final Scratch? Its been discontinued for a while now, I've lost count on the old revisions of the software.

[Javlingames]

I used to use Finalscratch but now I use Serato. Serato and Finalscratch do not have auto mix facilitys, who ever has told you this are wrong. I know both programmes inside out. Finalscratch IS software, with it you get the hardware with is the scratchamp. Just like Serato, you get an SL1 box, which is the serato hardware.

Please believe me, these programmes do not beat mix for you!

[PropellerHeadCase]

This whole argument is identical to the one that the vinyl purists (read "some elitist club DJs") trotted out when CDJ technology became more prevalent - the whole "it has BPM counters", "it virtually mixes for you", "no skill", etc., etc.

Then James Zabiela started winning awards for his DJing and they started to shut up and take notice.

[leighinstoke]

I don't personally care what other DJs think about digital, CD, vinyl, etc, users - we are all individual and use what suits us in whatever way gets the job done.

If others don't like it, so what!

[Penfold42]

Whover says that digital DJ's are not real DJ's watch this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuGGCBinC7Y
That ws superb....master at work....loved every minute of that....:approve:


I don't personally care what other DJs think about digital, CD, vinyl, etc, users - we are all individual and use what suits us in whatever way gets the job done.

If others don't like it, so what!
:agree:.......with you Leigh.......:)

Also see post #2............:D

[Corabar Steve]

I don't personally care what other DJs think about digital, CD, vinyl, etc, users - we are all individual and use what suits us in whatever way gets the job done.

If others don't like it, so what!

Well said Leigh. For a rubbish DJ you talk a lot of sense :sj:

[Nile]

Interesting.
I found this thread doing a search for Virtual DJ on your forums out of curiosity to what others use.
You see I come from a different background. I am solely a singer / entertainer from pubs to Haven camps. Due to work being tough at the mo and diesel having shot up I took an opportunity to run a pubs karaoke night - local - regular -and work! Even tho Karaoke does my swede in! Anyway there system was a basic Player with a few hundred discs. So I started building up my own system, laptop / VDJ / Hercules mixer / Behinger desk. Enabling me to play tracks etc when quiet, sing a few myself, provide visuals for the pub on there tellies etc, and also find myself more work locally as a DJ / karaoke / singer all in one.
I have had to learn from scratch the DJing thing, cos altho I have been a singer or in bands for years I have not done the djing thing before and had no-one to ask. So trial and error as they say. I can't do the old way of mixing CD's / vinyls, so as has been put " haven't served my time".
So does that make anyone that come through now straight into the digital age NOT a DJ?
hmm.
Yes the PC makes it easier / beat matching / samples etc etc but thats progress. We all had a horse and cart once, but things move one.
I do appreciate the skills involved in mixing by hand, it must be rather cool! The CD / vinyl mixing is a dying breed I am sure, and does maybe need more skill in some ways - but there are NEW skills to learn using the digital system, which in my humble opinion doesnt make a VDJ any less of a DJ than a CD DJ providing they embrace the technology and use it to do all the extras and not just set up a list of songs and press automix ( as was mentioned!)
my 2 pence from someone new!
cheers
Nile
( 39 and only just staring to DJ!)

[theoloyla]

Interesting.
I found this thread doing a search for Virtual DJ on your forums out of curiosity to what others use.
You see I come from a different background. I am solely a singer / entertainer from pubs to Haven camps. Due to work being tough at the mo and diesel having shot up I took an opportunity to run a pubs karaoke night - local - regular -and work! Even tho Karaoke does my swede in! Anyway there system was a basic Player with a few hundred discs. So I started building up my own system, laptop / VDJ / Hercules mixer / Behinger desk. Enabling me to play tracks etc when quiet, sing a few myself, provide visuals for the pub on there tellies etc, and also find myself more work locally as a DJ / karaoke / singer all in one.
I have had to learn from scratch the DJing thing, cos altho I have been a singer or in bands for years I have not done the djing thing before and had no-one to ask. So trial and error as they say. I can't do the old way of mixing CD's / vinyls, so as has been put " haven't served my time".
So does that make anyone that come through now straight into the digital age NOT a DJ?
hmm.
Yes the PC makes it easier / beat matching / samples etc etc but thats progress. We all had a horse and cart once, but things move one.
I do appreciate the skills involved in mixing by hand, it must be rather cool! The CD / vinyl mixing is a dying breed I am sure, and does maybe need more skill in some ways - but there are NEW skills to learn using the digital system, which in my humble opinion doesnt make a VDJ any less of a DJ than a CD DJ providing they embrace the technology and use it to do all the extras and not just set up a list of songs and press automix ( as was mentioned!)
my 2 pence from someone new!
cheers
Nile
( 39 and only just staring to DJ!)
Welcome.:) It is never too soon or to late to learn something new.

[BeerFunk]

Technically, you are a DJ if you use a device which uses a disc drive for storage, but you wouldn't be a DJ if it used a flash drive for storage :whistle:

[theoloyla]

Technically, you are a DJ if you use a device which uses a disc drive for storage, but you wouldn't be a DJ if it used a flash drive for storage :whistle:
Pedant!:)

[theoloyla]

It now looks that ordinary dj's will have an advantage over digital dj's as they wont have to shell out £250 per year.

[rob1963]

It now looks that ordinary dj's will have an advantage over digital dj's as they wont have to shell out £250 per year.

An ordinary DJ will have to carry a number of boxes of CDs.

To play a track, they have to find the CD with the track on, take it out of it's jewel case, open the drawer on the CD player, put the CD in, close the drawer, wait for the player to read the TOC & cue at track one, then press the track skip button a number of times until you get to the track you want.

A Digital DJ has no boxes of CDs to carry, and simply has to press a few buttons on a keyboard to locate & cue a track.

In my opinion, digital DJs are the ones who have the main advantage over ordinary DJs, even though they WILL have to shell out £250 a year...as £5 a week is a very small price to pay for the massive convenience of digital DJing that I've described above.

[BeerFunk]

It now looks that ordinary dj's will have an advantage over digital dj's as they wont have to shell out £250 per year.Yes, but quite simply, you need this licence, even if you still use CDs. I find downloading and burning to CD is the only way I can keep up with the charts - as I'm sure you're aware it is becoming increasingly more difficult to find CD singles.


An ordinary DJ will have to carry a number of boxes of CDs.

To play a track, they have to find the CD with the track on, take it out of it's jewel case, open the drawer on the CD player, put the CD in, close the drawer, wait for the player to read the TOC & cue at track one, then press the track skip button a number of times until you get to the track you want.

A Digital DJ has no boxes of CDs to carry, and simply has to press a few buttons on a keyboard to locate & cue a track.

In my opinion, digital DJs are the ones who have the main advantage over ordinary DJs, even though they WILL have to shell out £250 a year...as £5 a week is a very small price to pay for the massive convenience of digital DJing that I've described above.I agree about losing the cases of CDs, that may be a factor.

As for the time taken to load the CD - what else are you going to do in the 2-4 minutes between tracks anyway? :confused:

I'd find it a disadvantage, as I'd be bored out of my mind!

[rob1963]

As for the time taken to load the CD - what else are you going to do in the 2-4 minutes between tracks anyway? :confused:


You're missing the point. The fact is, I want to make the job as easy as possible. Digital DJing helps with that...regardless of what I'm doing in the 2-4 minutes between tracks.


I'd find it a disadvantage, as I'd be bored out of my mind!

Maybe you're in the wrong job then!

:rolleyes:

[theoloyla]

Yes, but quite simply, you need this licence, even if you still use CDs. I find downloading and burning to CD is the only way I can keep up with the charts - as I'm sure you're aware it is becoming increasingly more difficult to find CD singles.


You are absolutely right of course and that is why I find the licence so annoying. I download about 1 track per week on average which I then burn to CD. Therefore it will cost me about an extra £5 per track. Ludicrous.:bang:

[BeerFunk]

You're missing the point. The fact is, I want to make the job as easy as possible. Digital DJing helps with that...regardless of what I'm doing in the 2-4 minutes between tracks.

Maybe you're in the wrong job then!

:rolleyes:No I don't think so, I enjoy DJing - otherwise I wouldn't do it. The only aspect of the job I try to make easier setting up, packing down and transportation of the equipment. I think most would agree that it is the actual DJing that we all enjoy the most, so why would you think it such a great idea to cut down on the time changing tracks?

I don't see that as an advantage at all - only the search facility is an advantage.

[rob1963]

No I don't think so, I enjoy DJing - otherwise I wouldn't do it. The only aspect of the job I try to make easier setting up, packing down and transportation of the equipment. I think most would agree that it is the actual DJing that we all enjoy the most, so why would you think it such a great idea to cut down on the time changing tracks?

I don't see that as an advantage at all - only the search facility is an advantage.

There is another disadvantage of digital DJing over using CDs...you are less likely to play the wrong track.

I currently use CDs, and there have been occasions where I've got the track number wrong & therefore cued the wrong track...as all you can see on the CD player's display is the track number (unless you're using that best of Wham CD!).

There have also been plenty of occasions when I've put in a CD, but then forgotton to cue it up to the track I want, meaning I end up playing track 1.

With digital DJing, you can see the actual track name & artist before you hit the play button. I know the tags could be wrong, but I've spent a lot of time checking mine & feel confident they're at least 99% accurate.

[daz226]

well i am both cd and digital and i have to say i can take a request . locate load and play far quicker with the laptop than i ever could with cd's i still carry loads of cd's to events but i have them down to 2 cases now all the rest is digital of which i have a vast array of receipts for and spend on average 82 a month on new downloadable music just to ensure i have what the public require.

it saves a lot of time and effort to carry in a laptop with external drive than to be hauling in box after box of CD's

its the future embrace it dont look back in anger look forward:cool:

[leighinstoke]

Truly pointless debate.

Either you're CD, or PC or a mix of both.

Horses for courses.

Can we get back to discussing wires visible on setup photos please?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Truly pointless debate.

Either you're CD, or PC or a mix of both.

Horses for courses.

Can we get back to discussing wires visible on setup photos please?

And a truely pointless post.

[rob1963]

And a truely pointless post.

Indeed.

[DazzyD]

In my opinion, digital DJs are the ones who have the main advantage over ordinary DJs, even though they WILL have to shell out £250 a year...as £5 a week is a very small price to pay for the massive convenience of digital DJing that I've described above.

Not quite, Rob. Digital DJs will have to shell out a minimum of £250 (in my case £480!) in week 1 and then nothing for the next 51 weeks.

If it could be paid at so much per week (or even month) then it would be so much easier to handle. That way wor lass won't noticed me spending that much money. She seems to turning anti-DJ at the moment! :( :(

[rob1963]

Not quite, Rob. Digital DJs will have to shell out a minimum of £250 (in my case £480!) in week 1 and then nothing for the next 51 weeks.

If it could be paid at so much per week (or even month) then it would be so much easier to handle. That way wor lass won't noticed me spending that much money. She seems to turning anti-DJ at the moment! :( :(

After the first year, there's a simple answer to that Dazzy.

Just put £5 in a jar each week.

Problem solved!

:)