The warm sound of a valve mixer.

[nigelwright7557]

As a few will know on here I design and build my own amplifiers.
I also build my own speaker boxes too.

The current project is a mixer for my disco but one that uses a valve instead of transistors or op amps.

Guitarist love valve amplifiers because the give a warmer, richer and fatter sound.

Its currently working on the bench, it just needs fitting inside an enclosure now.

Has anyone else used valve amps or mixers on here ?

[DJ INDIE]

ive used valve amps in the band (bass and guitar) they do give off a richer nicer sound, but they are a lot more fragile than solid state/transistor amps, can break easy and regularly blow - and decent valves are a dear do! (about £30 a set if i remember correctly). they are Also they a lot louder like for like wattage wise.

anywho, luck with the project!

[nigelwright7557]

ive used valve amps in the band (bass and guitar) they do give off a richer nicer sound, but they are a lot more fragile than solid state/transistor amps, can break easy and regularly blow - and decent valves are a dear do! (about £30 a set if i remember correctly). they are Also they a lot louder like for like wattage wise.

anywho, luck with the project!

Cheers....

The dual triode valve ECC83 for my mixer was around £6.

Output valves that are many watts can be very expensive.
They usually need to be in matched sets too which bumps up the price.

Yes they are fragile but I wont be throwing this mixer around.

I am told a valve in a pre amp (not in a power amp) should last up to 3-4 years if used 3-4 times a week.

[BeerFunk]

Yeah, I don't go for that, my Dad has an ancient valve amp and although it does sound good - there is a reason for them being off the market these days. If they genuinely sound better than modern amps then there would still be new valve amps in production.

The only reason people like the old valve amps is because of the 'retro' factor IMO.

[nigelwright7557]

Yeah, I don't go for that, my Dad has an ancient valve amp and although it does sound good - there is a reason for them being off the market these days. If they genuinely sound better than modern amps then there would still be new valve amps in production.

The only reason people like the old valve amps is because of the 'retro' factor IMO.

Who told you that you can no longer get valve amps ?

Marshall, Fender, etc etc all do valve amplifiers.

I have a Simm-Watts 100 watt valve amp that sounds great and is very loud for 100 watts.

[Andy Westcott]

Some of the most expensive domestic amplifiers on the market are valve designs, and are currently manufactured all over the world.

Quote:
"I am told a valve in a pre amp (not in a power amp) should last up to 3-4 years if used 3-4 times a week."

They'll last for decades - in fact until the filaments give out. :) The only valves which may need replacing are the ones running at or near full capacity, as this dips somewhat after a period, and would need to be changed if full output is to be retained, as in transmitters for example. In any other application there is no need or benefit to change them.

Nigel - be sure to use metal film resistors as you will then get very low noise levels.

I'm not conviced about this 'valve sound' thing though.
A valve amp driven into mild clipping sounds a lot better than a solid state amp under the same conditions, due to the lack of hard clipping, and I think this is where the idea comes from. I have used (and built) valve amps on many occasions and have never found them to sound any better than a reasonably well-designed solid state amp. Maybe this is the issue - early solid state amps using germanium transistors were truly atrocious!

But good luck with the project, and don't touch the reservoir capacitor terminals... :)

[nigelwright7557]

Some of the most expensive domestic amplifiers on the market are valve designs, and are currently manufactured all over the world.

Quote:
"I am told a valve in a pre amp (not in a power amp) should last up to 3-4 years if used 3-4 times a week."

They'll last for decades - in fact until the filaments give out. :) The only valves which may need replacing are the ones running at or near full capacity, as this dips somewhat after a period, and would need to be changed if full output is to be retained, as in transmitters for example. In any other application there is no need or benefit to change them.

Nigel - be sure to use metal film resistors as you will then get very low noise levels.

I'm not conviced about this 'valve sound' thing though.
A valve amp driven into mild clipping sounds a lot better than a solid state amp under the same conditions, due to the lack of hard clipping, and I think this is where the idea comes from. I have used (and built) valve amps on many occasions and have never found them to sound any better than a reasonably well-designed solid state amp. Maybe this is the issue - early solid state amps using germanium transistors were truly atrocious!

But good luck with the project, and don't touch the reservoir capacitor terminals... :)

I have used metal film resistors.
The ECC83 is barely taking 1mA so should last a very long time.

Its usually guitar amps that are fully valve or just have a valve pre amp to get the valve sound.

I suspect the valve amps you have heard were designed not to clip.
A good hi fi valve amp sounds little different to a good transistor amp.

The guitar amp designers allow a clean sound or an overdriven sound where the valve goes into the none linear part of its power curve.
It just rounds off the waveform giving a lot of second harmonics instead of hard clipping it like in a transistor amp.

A good example of a valve sound is The Who. They just wouldnt sound the same without it.

I tried my disco with and without the valve pre amp and it sounds different with the valve amp even tho its not driven into distortion.
The bass sounds bigger and stronger.

I can tell best when playing a guitar through it, that now has a richer tone to it and the high end seems to have a bit of boost for some reason, I suspect the harmonics lifting the top end.

[Jaggiebunnett]

I agree that the Valve sound is warmer for individual instruments piped through valve systems but for what we do would that kind of set up not just color the sound?
In this day when we are looking for the cleanest path from CD to speaker it seems to me that a valve preamped system may be a step back maybe?:attn:

[nigelwright7557]

I agree that the Valve sound is warmer for individual instruments piped through valve systems but for what we do would that kind of set up not just color the sound?
In this day when we are looking for the cleanest path from CD to speaker it seems to me that a valve preamped system may be a step back maybe?:attn:

Its all down to personal preference.

Some people prefer transistor sound and others valves.

Some of the top Hi Fi enthusiasts wont even consider a transistor amplifier.
Just like some still prefer vinyl to CD's.

Have a look on ebay for valve pre amps and amps, and some sell for thousands of pounds.

[nigelwright7557]

I enclose a picture of the valve pre amp.

http://www.ckp-railways.talktalk.net/valve_preamp.jpg

The two left jacks are for CD channel 1.
The next two are for CD channel 2.
The next input is for a MP3 player.
The last input is for a mic or electric guitar as it has an extra stage of gain to boost the signal.
The output is on the back of the mixer.

[Vectis]

Very nice Nigel :)

But why go to all that trouble then use the cheapest nastiest interconnects you could find? :confused:

[soundtracker]

Very nice Nigel :)

But why go to all that trouble then use the cheapest nastiest interconnects you could find? :confused:

Yeah spot on, any possible gains made by the "valve quality sound" - if such a thing exists- would soon be diminished by cheapo cables!

[Tony Scott]

When I first started I had 4 x 'Orange' 120w Valve slave amps, these were absolutely awsome amps.

I used to love the glow you got from the valves & the sound was as you discribe it - warm bass and crystal clear highs, these used to power 4 x ElectroVoice Eliminator W bins.....happy days!! :)

[theoloyla]

Yeah I started out on valve amps too but I think solid state ones are more reliable.