Photo Keyrings

[MaRkWrIgHtOcDiScO]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of starting up a photo keyring service at my gigs and would just like some advice from anyone who knows a thing or two about this kind of thing.

Basically I've got a decent digital camera and a good printer, loads of photo quality paper and plastic keyrings. I'm just looking for a good reliable software that would allow me to make individual keyring designs on my computer.

Has anybody got any ideas?

Thanks.

Mark.

[501damian501]

This one is right down my street lol, right theres many ways to go about it mate, you can use the cheap and nasty software you got with your printer, that will have the function somewhere to be able to do it no doubt, or you can buy a piece of software called keyring creator, or you could use paint shop pro or adobe and resize the image and crop to how you want it, or you could use a programme called photozoom, which allows you to resize images to how small or how big you want them without any pixilation defects, the best option I would go for is the paint shop pro and photozoom route, I have first hand experience of how softwares resize images and they lose their touch,or you could just stick to mobile djing lol, theres a few routes for you, also with paint shop pro you have the basic editing tools, like red eye removal and basic tools like that, I wouldnt really start using programmes like adobe until you have experience, trust me, if you need anymore help you know where I am.

[Shaun]

You should be able to do it with any basic photo editing software. I use Adobe Photoshop, it's pretty easy to make up a template based on the sizes of your keyrings.

Although I've never used it I hear a 'GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/)' is pretty good photo editing application. It's also free which is always a bonus.

[501damian501]

and may i ask why use basic, basic software = basic results in the photographic business

[Shaun]

and may i ask why use basic, basic software = basic results in the photographic business

My post clearly states that that I personally don't use a basic software. I mentioned a professional application, but also offered some advice on a basic alternative. I'll leave the original poster to make up his own mind which he would prefer.

[501damian501]

mark, what brought the idea of keyrings to you, there a great way to promote your business as well, you could also think about doing fridge magnets, theres a company called plastics direct, they have all the stuff for sale, pretty cheap as well,have you thought about doing photo dvds ?

[splash]

Isn't this diversifying a bit too much?
Sounds a bit risky to me.. if you are taking photos, would the DJing not suffer?

After all.. we are there to do one job and one job only.
Not make money on the side.

[DazzyD]

Although I've never used it I hear a 'GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/)' is pretty good photo editing application. It's also free which is always a bonus.

GIMP is a really good graphics editor. I use it to create web graphics and icons so I'm sure it would work well scaling down images for keyrings.


and may i ask why use basic, basic software = basic results in the photographic business

I wouldn't call it basic software. A lot of pro web designers I know use it. It's well supported and does the job that's required of it.


Isn't this diversifying a bit too much?
Sounds a bit risky to me.. if you are taking photos, would the DJing not suffer?

After all.. we are there to do one job and one job only.
Not make money on the side.

What's wrong with offering added extras? If you can maximise your earnings potential then surely that's a good thing. As long as the DJing doesn't suffer (ie - a roadie could take the pictures and take the orders for the keyrings). A lot of nightclubs are offering photo keyrings now and they charge a fair bit for them so there's obviously money to be made.

[Jiggles]

Dont remind me about keyrings! Over that past 3 months i have made over 3000 of the things! ARGH! Anyway, we use Corel Draw to make them.

[rob1963]

What's wrong with offering added extras?

In my opinion, nothing...as long as it relates to the job you've been hired to do. Offering added extras is one thing, but becoming a jack of all trades and selling stuff to try & make extra money is something very different.


If you can maximise your earnings potential then surely that's a good thing.

Not necessarily.


As long as the DJing doesn't suffer (ie - a roadie could take the pictures and take the orders for the keyrings).

So the roadie is now an expert photographer, is he?

And what if you don't have a roadie at all, let alone one who is an expert photographer?


A lot of nightclubs are offering photo keyrings now and they charge a fair bit for them so there's obviously money to be made.

Just because there's money to be made doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. The trouble is, where do you draw the line? If you're going to sell keyrings at gigs, why stop there?

You could also set up a couple of stalls next to the disco...one selling glowsticks and another selling off your old unwanted CDs.

What's the difference?

Just my opinion.

:)

[UltraBeat Entertainment]

I never know keyring selling was such a big add on for the mobile DJ.

I can't really see how it fits in myself but i guess as long as its working for you guys that all that matters.:confused:

Can't say I'll be taking it up any time soon:rolleyes:

[soundtracker]

Don't suppose its very relevant for most, as its not the sort of image you would want to portray at a wedding!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think it may be OK to do at some functions. Not for me personally though. I want to be concentrating 100% on what I am paid to be doing.

If you want to maximise your earnings, then put your prices up.

[yourdj]

Tried it, fiderly, but you can command good money, especially if you have young kids LOL.

I own a printing business so can make more money other ways.

I use adobe all the way - illustrator a good bet but photoshop/indesign works too. You can download the eps templates for the keyrings

[DazzyD]

Rob, I simply giving my thoughts to a question that was asked. I wasn't endorsing anything nor condemning anything. I just don't see that maximising income is a bad thing so long as it doesn't distract from the core services we provide.


In my opinion, nothing...as long as it relates to the job you've been hired to do. Offering added extras is one thing, but becoming a jack of all trades and selling stuff to try & make extra money is something very different.


My business provides a broad range of services although keyrings is not something we do although we have the facility.



So the roadie is now an expert photographer, is he?

And what if you don't have a roadie at all, let alone one who is an expert photographer?


Funny you should say that, Rob. My brother in law, who roadies for me from time to time when my brother is unavailable, is a fully qualified photographer. He bought all the gear (£1000+ for a camera, the show-off!), did the job for a while and then decided he wanted to be a driving instructor. We only use his photography skills when clients request it. He wouldn't just turn up at a gig with all his gear cos I don't consider that professional. He does do all the photography for the charity functions we put on, though.


Just because there's money to be made doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. The trouble is, where do you draw the line? If you're going to sell keyrings at gigs, why stop there?

You could also set up a couple of stalls next to the disco...one selling glowsticks and another selling off your old unwanted CDs.

What's the difference?

Just my opinion.

:)

And a valid opinion, Rob. Again, we do provide party accessories which includes glo-sticks but these are provided upon request and paid for in advance.


Don't suppose its very relevant for most, as its not the sort of image you would want to portray at a wedding!

Totally agree with this as weddings tend to have their own photographer. My brother in law has only been requested a handful of times and most of these have been corporate events and some family occasions. Although I find that more and more people are buying the disposable camera party packs and sticking a camera on each table so the guests can take their own photos. Even some B & G's are opting for this over a professional photographer at their wedding.

[501damian501]

whats need to have your own camera ect ect, if they have a professional photo boy their, just get pictures off his flash card,sd card or whatever he uses, then just charge the client whatever, imo you should keep to the djing then you wont get any problems, like rob said lets all turn the function rooms into mobile market stalls, I have been doing this sort of thing for ages now infact afew years to be honest, i run things seperate to the rest, i get all my images off the photographer if they wont a photo dvd, then when i get home i start making it for them, also i have nice little dvd leather cases, damian

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The photographer gives you his images to use for free, so that you can sell them? Is that right?

[501damian501]

no your getting the wrong end of the stick, when a photograhper is hired in, the images which he is taken are the clients, even though they may be on his digital memory card, they client still owns them images, so we ask the photographer nicely and all is pre arranged to take some pictures from him for the photo dvd, damian

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

no your getting the wrong end of the stick, when a photograhper is hired in, the images which he is taken are the clients, even though they may be on his digital memory card, they client still owns them images, so we ask the photographer nicely and all is pre arranged to take some pictures from him for the photo dvd, damian

I see, though I'm not sure that the client would own ther images? I would have thought they belonged to the photographer until he decided to sell them to the client.

I remember Shaun saying something about this when he designed my logo. Maybe that's just for graphics and not photographs.

[DazzyD]

Its like my website domain registration. Although I do all the work on it now, my original webdesigner owns the domain until the registration on it runs out next year.

I've asked my brother in law about this one and he says that, as far as he's aware, he owns the rights to the photographs he takes and that, in his contract with the client, he transfers these rights to client upon completion of the assignment. He says it's also possible to jointly own the rights with the client so as the photographer can use the images as he sees fit even after completion of the assignment (for promotional purposes, for example). However, if he was contracted to work for an employer as an employee then the rights to the images would belong to the company.

Hope this helps.

[Marc J]

I see, though I'm not sure that the client would own ther images? I would have thought they belonged to the photographer until he decided to sell them to the client.

I remember Shaun saying something about this when he designed my logo. Maybe that's just for graphics and not photographs.

The photographer owns the images unless there is explicit transfer to the client (which is usually not the case).

As a couple paying the photographer, you pay him (or her) for the hard copies (album of photos, and whatever else) he supplies to you at the end of it all. Even if you get a CD or DVD of a selection of photos, these are usually not the raw images but might be thrown together for CD or DVD video (which is still basically low resolution).

Try asking him for the high resolution raw images from the camera (or negatives) and in 99.9% of cases you'll get a definite no and a sharp reminder that he owns the images!

[501damian501]

maybe in your case, not in mine

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

maybe in your case, not in mine

I think Marc is telling you the legal position on this subject.

[Marc J]

I think Marc is telling you the legal position on this subject.

Indeed, and I have the lawyer's bill to prove it :mad:

[Shaun]

As always, Marc is 100% correct. :)

[ppentertainments]

Have a look at :
http://www.my-software.co.uk/personalised-gifts.php

reasons why I would reccomend this is the time it takes to cut out each keyring. If you get a 'rush' of customers it takes ages to cut each one out. Using the software above you can also buy the template paper for the keyrings. This works out a bit more expensive to produce but makes it easier and looks a lot neater than trying to cut out with scissors. Another option would be to use a plotter to cut them out - again more expense and more equipment.

I make key-rings (not while dj'ing) but am now only taking orders for 25 min (unless part of a photo package). You will find people sell keyrings really cheap as people can make them at home themselves so won't pay a lot.

[wensleydale]

aside from the issue of who owns the photo i think its a little tacky anwyay.
you might as well sell pegs, dusters and dishcloths at the same time.


and on the subject of image ownership i am surprised more people dont demand it when booking a photographer for weddings- after paying £1.5k for a photographer i dont see why your guests should have to pay £5 a photo.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

aside from the issue of who owns the photo i think its a little tacky anwyay.
you might as well sell pegs, dusters and dishcloths at the same time.

And lucky heather?

[wensleydale]

And lucky heather?

each to their own.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You reeeeeeeeeeelly need to get a sense of humour Rich.

[wensleydale]

You reeeeeeeeeeelly need to get a sense of humour Rich.

that was not meant in a grumpy way.

i just know there is lot more money in dish cloths than heather.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

that was not meant in a grumpy way.

i just know there is lot more money in dish cloths than heather.

I didn't say you were grumpy. ;)

[ppentertainments]

aside from the issue of who owns the photo i think its a little tacky anwyay.
you might as well sell pegs, dusters and dishcloths at the same time.


and on the subject of image ownership i am surprised more people dont demand it when booking a photographer for weddings- after paying £1.5k for a photographer i dont see why your guests should have to pay £5 a photo.

Totally agree which is when I do wedding photography I offer the cd with copyright for sale. You find A LOT of photographers going down this road as people will not pay a lot now. I find a lot more people having a family friend doing the photography. I can't blame them to be honest as you could buy a decent camera for around £600, get a friend to take the photos and then you keep the camera afterwards. With digital photography you can check the photo straight away also.

[rob1963]

aside from the issue of who owns the photo i think its a little tacky anwyay.
you might as well sell pegs, dusters and dishcloths at the same time.


I completely agree with you Rich, which isn't something that happens too often, so let's savour the moment!

:thumbsup:

[Marc J]

Totally agree which is when I do wedding photography I offer the cd with copyright for sale. You find A LOT of photographers going down this road as people will not pay a lot now. I find a lot more people having a family friend doing the photography. I can't blame them to be honest as you could buy a decent camera for around £600, get a friend to take the photos and then you keep the camera afterwards. With digital photography you can check the photo straight away also.

So, you're essentially saying it's the equipment that makes the photographer, then?



I wonder if that works for DJs, too....? ;)

[ppentertainments]

Did I say that ??? I was pointing out the costs involved esp. as we are going through a 'credit crunch' at the moment and a lot of people are trying to reduce costs. Obviously there is a difference between a professional and DIY.

What I am saying is that it IS possible to do photographs (on the cheap) legally. With cameras it is possible to check the photo has been taking correctly. If not ot can be taken again. Quality production is readily available in many high street stores.

Dj'ing is a different matter. For one, to build up a decent song collection costs a lot more than hiring a dj, plus if you get the songs wrong that moment has passed, you can't go back and redo it so the skills are neccesary.

[rob1963]

So, you're essentially saying it's the equipment that makes the photographer, then?

I wonder if that works for DJs, too....? ;)

I'm sure there are some that think so!

I'm pleased to say I'm definately not one of them, though!

:D :D :D

[Marc J]

Did I say that ??? I was pointing out the costs involved esp. as we are going through a 'credit crunch' at the moment and a lot of people are trying to reduce costs. Obviously there is a difference between a professional and DIY.

What I am saying is that it IS possible to do photographs (on the cheap) legally. With cameras it is possible to check the photo has been taking correctly. If not ot can be taken again. Quality production is readily available in many high street stores.

Dj'ing is a different matter. For one, to build up a decent song collection costs a lot more than hiring a dj, plus if you get the songs wrong that moment has passed, you can't go back and redo it so the skills are neccesary.

I know, I was only kidding - hence the ;)

[ppentertainments]

I know, I was only kidding - hence the ;)

Climbing down off soapbox :D :D :D