Contract T&Cs No 10

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

States:

10. The client will provide adequate supervision of its guests, including children, at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of or damage to the equipment or personnel belongings, caused by guests attending the function.

Today for the first time ever, I had a prospective client ring and ask me if I could take that clause out as it was not covered on her wedding insurance.

I declined and she said that she would talk about it with her fiance.

What would you have done?

[HaiFai]

Exactly As you have done - Declined

[Tom]

Same here. If the client don't want to play by your rules then she should be looking else where for another DJ.

[Shaun]

I'd have declined also. Glad to hear you stood your ground.

[CRAZY K]

States:

10. The client will provide adequate supervision of its guests, including children, at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of or damage to the equipment or personnel belongings, caused by guests attending the function.

Today for the first time ever, I had a prospective client ring and ask me if I could take that clause out as it was not covered on her wedding insurance.

I declined and she said that she would talk about it with her fiance.

What would you have done?

The same.

Daz--as an ex Insurance guy I can tell you this--

If the Wedding Insurers wont include it they have obviously had loads of claims for this kind of incident.:eek: or think they will.

You are potentially at risk.

If necessary tell them to go somewhere else.

I dont include this clause myself--I would just sue them in the small claims court.

CRAZY K

[super-hero]

Sounds like the client knows what sort of guests will be comeing. And doesn't want to be liable for their behavior.

Terms and conditions are there for a reason. You can't just delete the ones the client doesn't like. Well done for standing your ground.

[soundmaster mobile disco]

I'd have declined also.

Same here

I would like to have seen the wedding insurance t&c

[PropellerHeadCase]

If she's that sure it'll be an issue I'd steer clear of her and her cleptomaniac and vicious drunk relatives ;)

[rob1963]

States:

10. The client will provide adequate supervision of its guests, including children, at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of or damage to the equipment or personnel belongings, caused by guests attending the function.

Today for the first time ever, I had a prospective client ring and ask me if I could take that clause out as it was not covered on her wedding insurance.

I declined and she said that she would talk about it with her fiance.

What would you have done?

I have a virtually identical term, and I too would have declined.

After all, if we let all clients go through our terms & conditions & take out any they didn't like, there would be no point in having them in the first place.

To be honest, I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

Imagine the reaction if you went to your bank for a personal loan, and asked if they could take out a couple of the terms & conditions which you weren't too keen on before you signed the application form!

[Vectis]

Decline.

It's not as if you won't re-book the date if they do go elsewhere now is it?

[Ace DJ]

I have a simler clause. even longer and covering a lot more aspects of guests
at functions.
I would dare say your client wasn't insuring her event anyway.
Ace

[soundtracker]

Agreed, apply barge pole principle!

[Spirits High]

And it's a NO from me too.

like it's been said T&C's are there for a reason and not for the client to get rid of the ones they don't like :eek:

[CRAZY K]

I have a simler clause. even longer and covering a lot more aspects of guests
at functions.
I would dare say your client wasn't insuring her event anyway.
Ace

She was-it just didnt cover what is very likely to happen:eek: :eek: :eek:

CRAZY K

[Penfold42]

What they all said....:)

[Twinspin]

Definetely no!!!

they are taking the micky!!

If any clients book a disco with me. they get two copies of the terms and conditions. They must sign a copy and keep a copy for themselves so they are aware.

failure to sign the terms and conditions. First of all the terms and conditions will be returned to them highlighting that they need to be signed. Failure to sign them still will end up with a letter in writing that their booking has been cancelled.

[Penfold42]

Also......

What would you have done?

I've added into mine....:o :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well, you'll be glad to hear that the lady has just rung back and booked for her wedding. They have got some extra insurance that covers my contract and were happy to book.

She was so happy that it was all sorted out - I guuess she really wanted to book.

We had a bit of a laugh and a joke about it in the end too. (I told her we didn't have any availability for that date anymore :sj:)

[Penfold42]

Good to hear it turned out well. :)

[nigelwright7557]

States:

10. The client will provide adequate supervision of its guests, including children, at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of or damage to the equipment or personnel belongings, caused by guests attending the function.

Today for the first time ever, I had a prospective client ring and ask me if I could take that clause out as it was not covered on her wedding insurance.

I declined and she said that she would talk about it with her fiance.

What would you have done?

T&C's are a double edged sword, while they protect the DJ and his equipment they can upset clients or potential clients.

Why should the client be responsible for their guests ? Surely its up to the guests to behave themselves and if they break something they pay for it ?
The law would make the client resonsible if anyone else did something wrong......

Parents looking after kids is a different matter.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

TWhy should the client be responsible for their guests ? Surely its up to the guests to behave themselves and if they break something they pay for it ?


If a guest breaks something and leaves, then what?

If a fight breaks out, then what?

If a guest becomes abusive, then what?

[nigelwright7557]

If a guest breaks something and leaves, then what?

If a fight breaks out, then what?

If a guest becomes abusive, then what?

But what has that got to do with the client ?

If there is trouble you call the police, its not the your job or the clients to sort out fights or arguments.

If you do get involved you could get a mouthful of knuckles or get into a scrap which gets you a criminal record.

[wensleydale]

depends on the gig and how much you want it.
saying no straight away is one extreme- turned out ok in the end though so everyones happy.

[CRAZY K]

But what has that got to do with the client ?

If there is trouble you call the police, its not the your job or the clients to sort out fights or arguments.

If you do get involved you could get a mouthful of knuckles or get into a scrap which gets you a criminal record.

You can bet that if theres any damage to the premises the Hotel or Hall would bill the client---so why are we any different?

CRAZY K

[nigelwright7557]

You can bet that if theres any damage to the premises the Hotel or Hall would bill the client---so why are we any different?

CRAZY K

Well you could try billing the client but I suspect it would end up in court and you losing.

The client would simply state that they have no control over other human beings.

If a crime is commited its the criminal they prosecute not a friend or relative !

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well you could try billing the client but I suspect it would end up in court and you losing.



Wrong. I have billed clients for damages and been paid.

The contract has been deemed fair by a solicitor, so I don't see what the argument is.

[nigelwright7557]

Well you could try billing the client but I suspect it would end up in court and you losing.

The client would simply state that they have no control over other human beings.

If a crime is commited its the criminal they prosecute not a friend or relative !

Well they must have been pretty stupid or just couldnt be bothered going to court or naive enough to think they had to pay it.

I would certainly take you to court with a doubt !

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well they must have been pretty stupid or just couldnt be bothered going to court or naive enough to think they had to pay it.

I would certainly take you to court with a doubt !

Take me to court because you damaged my equipment - that's interesting!

Nigel, please don't insult the intelligence of my clients.

I have a contract. It is a legal contract and covers both me and the client. The contract has been deemed fair by a solicitor. What don't you understand?

I am not 'playing' at this. I run a Ltd company and have to have certain procedures in place.

[nigelwright7557]

Take me to court because you damaged my equipment - that's interesting!

Nigel, please don't insult the intelligence of my clients.

I have a contract. It is a legal contract and covers both me and the client. The contract has been deemed fair by a solicitor. What don't you understand?

I am not 'playing' at this. I run a Ltd company and have to have certain procedures in place.

If the client has signed a contract then that is a totally different matter.

Its up to them to read the contract and decide whether or not to take your services and conditions.

I personally wouldnt book you with T&C's like that, because i would consider you to have an attitude problem.

I dont have t&c's any more because I think it puts people off.
I lost two bookings due to a booking form I had and that was with very mild t&c's.
I now take a none returnable deposit and accept the law is good enough as it stands to protect me and the client.

[Danno13]

LOL! Protecting your investment constitutes an attitude problem does it??

If people don't want to book a professional and sign a contract then they're obviously a bit dodgy and I'm not interested, let them mess someone else around...

[Penfold42]

If the client has signed a contract then that is a totally different matter.

Its up to them to read the contract and decide whether or not to take your services and conditions.

I personally wouldnt book you with T&C's like that, because i would consider you to have an attitude problem.

I dont have t&c's any more because I think it puts people off.
I lost two bookings due to a booking form I had and that was with very mild t&c's.
I now take a none returnable deposit and accept the law is good enough as it stands to protect me and the client.

And if i damaged your eqipment...how would you get the money out of me....

Oh look there i am running out of the door.......who's that you ask.....dunno mate, didn't come with me.....

Nice one.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If the client has signed a contract then that is a totally different matter.

Its up to them to read the contract and decide whether or not to take your services and conditions.

I personally wouldnt book you with T&C's like that, because i would consider you to have an attitude problem.

I dont have t&c's any more because I think it puts people off.
I lost two bookings due to a booking form I had and that was with very mild t&c's.
I now take a none returnable deposit and accept the law is good enough as it stands to protect me and the client.

I really don't think you have looked into this.

Deposits by their very nature are refundable, which is why I take a booking fee or advance payment.

You wouldn't book me with T&Cs like that because you consider me to have an attitude problem?

Nigel, you truly are a comedian.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Surely this thread proves my point, doesn't it?

The client didn't book originally because of No:10 in the T&Cs, but wanted to be protected and book a reputable company, so got their insurance sorted out and then came back and booked me.

I must have had a real attitude problem then....

[nigelwright7557]

LOL! Protecting your investment constitutes an attitude problem does it??

If people don't want to book a professional and sign a contract then they're obviously a bit dodgy and I'm not interested, let them mess someone else around...

But I think you are doing it unfairly.

Your saying if John hits Fred then Mike is responsible.

The law says otherwise so your t&c's in the eye of the law are grossly unfair to the client.

I personally prefer to skip the t&c's and get more gigs.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I personally prefer to skip the t&c's and get more gigs.


I have had 2 people ever question my T&Cs and both of them booked after a little discussion.

[ppentertainments]

I use T&C and ask for a booking fee. Have lost one client because of this. Was really glad I lost them - if they are quibbling over a 'common sense' document and a small payment what is it going to be like on event day - and getting full payment ???

Agree with Daz - stick to your guns !

[Andy Westcott]

Most certainly.
I have a similar clause in my T&C, but have never had anyone question the document at all.

I'd be interested in this legal issue:
Can a person be held responsible for the behaviour of his/her guests?

But then, even if not, they are agreeing, by signing, to be accountable for their actions. If that means they decide not to invite their daughter's friend's agressive boyfriend, that has to be a good thing, surely?

[Excalibur]

Correct me if I'm wrong ( As if I have to request that! :D )but isn't the customer "Hiring" Darren? I know when I hire equipment ( Sorry Darren, I knowyou're much more important than a Kango Hammer, but bear with me.;) :D ) I have to sign a disclaimer saying I and my staff will not break it on purpose, or by being a total pillock. Same thing I reckon?:confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Correct me if I'm wrong ( As if I have to request that! :D )but isn't the customer "Hiring" Darren? I know when I hire equipment ( Sorry Darren, I knowyou're much more important than a Kango Hammer, but bear with me.;) :D ) I have to sign a disclaimer saying I and my staff will not break it on purpose, or by being a total pillock. Same thing I reckon?:confused:

I have a hire agreement for P.A. systems, dance floors etc which is different to the disco one.

My insurance company insist my clients have their own insurance in case of damages.

[Excalibur]

I have a hire agreement for P.A. systems, dance floors etc which is different to the disco one.

My insurance company insist my clients have their own insurance in case of damages.

But surely both stipulate that damage caused by the Hirer/Customer/ Staff/Agents/Guests must be paid for? :confused: ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But surely both stipulate that damage caused by the Hirer/Customer/ Staff/Agents/Guests must be paid for? :confused: ;)

Indeed. Just in a slightly different way.

[soundtracker]

If the client has signed a contract then that is a totally different matter.

Its up to them to read the contract and decide whether or not to take your services and conditions.

I personally wouldnt book you with T&C's like that, because i would consider you to have an attitude problem.

I dont have t&c's any more because I think it puts people off.
I lost two bookings due to a booking form I had and that was with very mild t&c's.
I now take a none returnable deposit and accept the law is good enough as it stands to protect me and the client.

I would so love to answer this, but a moderator being banned for insulting a member would not be cricket. Suffice to say it is quite a large pile of pants.

[rob1963]

I dont have t&c's any more because I think it puts people off.

I'd suggest that NOT having terms & conditions puts MORE people off, as you are unable to offer any protection to either yourself OR the client.


I lost two bookings due to a booking form I had and that was with very mild t&c's.

I'd be willing to bet that I'd lose a LOT more than 2 bookings if I scrapped my terms & conditions!


I now take a non returnable deposit and accept the law is good enough as it stands to protect me and the client.

How can you ask clients for a non returnable deposit when you have no terms & conditions stating this?

Also, what happens, for example, if the client doesn't pay the balance when it's due? Without any terms & conditions, you can't refuse to do the gig, as you have no way of knowing when/how/if they intend to/will pay.

With all due respect, your way of operating has me completely baffled.

In my opinion a business with no terms & conditions is generally more likely to be a cowboy outfit.

:confused:

[nigelwright7557]

But surely both stipulate that damage caused by the Hirer/Customer/ Staff/Agents/Guests must be paid for? :confused: ;)

Since i stopped using t&c's I havent had a single person ask about them.

Surely PLI covers a lot anyway ?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

So what would happen if someone cancelled you within a week or two of the function?

No T&Cs, no comeback, no gig and no money.

[rob1963]

So what would happen if someone cancelled you within a week or two of the function?

No T&Cs, no comeback, no gig and no money.

Exactly.

[nigelwright7557]

So what would happen if someone cancelled you within a week or two of the function?

No T&Cs, no comeback, no gig and no money.

I would keep the deposit.

If they do cancel its no big deal, I work full time and run another business besides the disco.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I would keep the deposit.

If they do cancel its no big deal, I work full time and run another business besides the disco.

It's not the point though is it? Whether you work full or part time DJing shouldn't make any difference to whether you get paid or not and looking after yours and the clients interests.

What's your other business? How would you feel if people cancelled you and didn't pay you for that?

This icon is going to come in useful here I think. :bang:

[nigelwright7557]

It's not the point though is it? Whether you work full or part time DJing shouldn't make any difference to whether you get paid or not and looking after yours and the clients interests.

What's your other business? How would you feel if people cancelled you and didn't pay you for that?

This icon is going to come in useful here I think. :bang:

I design software and electronics systems.
I have never had anyone not pay because I do a good job at a reasonable price.

My clients interest are that I do a good job, that doesnt include sueing him !

[PropellerHeadCase]

So in other words you're taking it on complete trust... nice world you live in.

[CRAZY K]

But I think you are doing it unfairly.

Your saying if John hits Fred then Mike is responsible.

The law says otherwise so your t&c's in the eye of the law are grossly unfair to the client.

I personally prefer to skip the t&c's and get more gigs.

ITS PROBABLY THE REVERSE.

People are more suspicious of traders who dont collect deposits/ booking fees and have a signed Contract.

They wont think you are Professional and prepared to commit in writing to undertaking a vital service.

I wouldnt book anyone on that basis unless I knew them previously.

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

People are more suspicious of traders who dont collect deposits/ booking fees and have a signed Contract.


Absolutely!

Not collecting deposits, not having terms & conditions and not having a signed contract are three of the major things I (and probably many others) would associate with a cowboy.

[nigelwright7557]

If she's that sure it'll be an issue I'd steer clear of her and her cleptomaniac and vicious drunk relatives ;)

Nice to see so much respect for the clients ! :bang:

[theoloyla]

I would so love to answer this, but a moderator being banned for insulting a member would not be cricket. Suffice to say it is quite a large pile of pants.
Soundtracker I am not a moderator and have been known to upset Daz and other moderators before; so I'll say it for you - Nigel you are a complete burke!

[nigelwright7557]

Soundtracker I am not a moderator and have been known to upset Daz and other moderators before; so I'll say it for you - Nigel you are a complete burke!

Personally I would say comedian rather than burke !

[theoloyla]

Personally I would say comedian rather than burke !
So you really are a wind up merchant.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Soundtracker I am not a moderator and have been known to upset Daz and other moderators before; so I'll say it for you - Nigel you are a complete burke!

LMAO!

Behave yourself Loyla. :mad: :D

[theoloyla]

LMAO!

Behave yourself Loyla. :mad: :D
Whoops! I'm in trouble again!:D

[mikeee]

We have had forums for 5 years in the UK, we have had associations for over 30 years and yet with all the FREE information there are still :Censored:S, that lower the level of this industry to prehistoric times. Now lets reverse the situation, something happens that could be leveled at the DJ, but he didn't have any T&C's to protect him, um, house goes, car goes, belongings go - long wait for a council house, :Censored:, sorry, SOCIAL HOUSING.
Only a total numpty would not have some form of basic T&C's in place. It really makes me sad to think the average DJ does not have ability to pass the 11+. OK, who's upset, loads, good, put the grey matter into gear before trying to run the most basic of businesses. I'm really starting to feel the need to be out spoken again.

[soundtracker]

I'm really starting to feel the need to be out spoken again.

Now look what you've done! Tin hats on chaps!:D

[mikeee]

Um, heavy artilary this time :-)

[Ace DJ]

I must agree with Mikeee.
Before you set up in any business you do the basics. That is the way you want to trade.
Anybody who does anything without the proper paperwork in place
is to put it mildly an Idiot.
Some of the T&C's and contracts that I have read from so called professional DJ's have I think been written by a 5 year old.
Being a DJ is not just about playing music it is also about what goes on in the background.
Ace

[Dragonfly]

It really makes me sad to think the average DJ does not have ability to pass the 11+.

I did wahoo :D :D :D :D :D :D

[soundtracker]

I did wahoo :D :D :D :D :D :D

and me! That's why I can spell Artillery!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Before you set up in any business you do the basics.

Unfortunately, lots of people don't appear to treat this as a business.

[Andy Westcott]

I passed my 11 plus too!
Although you'd seriously doubt it if you met me...

[mikeee]

That's why I can spell Artillery!

OK Smart Ar$e, so sepllnig si nto my srtnog poitn :D :D :D


Um, three passes, does that mean everyone else failed :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :)

[theoloyla]

OK Smart Ar$e, so sepllnig si nto my srtnog poitn :D :D :D


Um, three passes, does that mean everyone else failed :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :)

Careful you will upset the mods on here. They will think it is text talk! :D

[mikeee]

PMSL, Whats "Text Talk", I use the proper Queens englais, U Iriot :) :) :)

[theoloyla]

PMSL, Whats "Text Talk", I use the proper Queens englais, U Iriot :) :) :)
Are you calling me a french rioter? You feelthy pig!:D

[mikeee]

Are you calling me a french rioter? You feelthy pig!:D

Don't think so, couldn't see a white flag.
Well muglefup, I shower daily, and some of the best DJ's I know are pigs, I've seen them eat a kebab at 3.00am

[Penfold42]

I've seen them eat a kebab at 3.00am

Yea good 'innit...........:zip: :D