Bass bin where do you put yours ?

[dj wayne]

Hello i use a mackie 1501 bass bin and 2 x db technologies opera 15 tops iv noticed that behind my setup i have loads of bass but on the dance floor cant hardly hear it iv tried facing the sub the other way but does not seem to make much difference just wondered where you put yours.

regards

wayne

www.andersonentertainments.co.uk

[Dillmiester]

Bass bins should be able to go anywhere within reason. As bass isnt that directional. So maybe your not drivig it properly with the correct power and frequency.
The Mackie should shake the room.
How are you setting it up?

[Dragonfly]

indeed my 1501 boomed no matter where i put it. and it used to go wherever it looked best ..... under a table , at the side , to one side .....

[pagan_flame]

Now I went in the other direction with this... I have dB sub 15 and Mackie SRM 450 (lean mean grilling machine)'s. The advice (from a sound engineer) I was given was that you should ideally have twice as much bass as top, in terms of wattage - the 1501 is only 500 watts RMS (700W peak), the tops you have are the same (250w RMS x 2).

You need another sub... ;) Either a second 1501, or the aforementioned dB sub 15 (800w RMS).

Also, how have you got them linked? You should be getting some decent bass off 15" tops - have you got them linked from the hi-pass on the sub, by any chance? Try running them full range if you have.

[Dragonfly]

Now I went in the other direction with this... I have dB sub 15 and Mackie SRM 450 (lean mean grilling machine)'s. The advice (from a sound engineer) I was given was that you should ideally have twice as much bass as top, in terms of wattage - the 1501 is only 500 watts RMS (700W peak), the tops you have are the same (250w RMS x 2).

You need another sub... ;) Either a second 1501, or the aforementioned dB sub 15 (800w RMS).

Also, how have you got them linked? You should be getting some decent bass off 15" tops - have you got them linked from the hi-pass on the sub, by any chance? Try running them full range if you have.

fair play ..... but .......... just for the record if i had used two macke 1501s with my set up at alot of the gigs i did people would have had to sit in the carpark so they didnt feel sick and could chat????

[Excalibur]

Now I went in the other direction with this... I have dB sub 15 and Mackie SRM 450 (lean mean grilling machine)'s. The advice (from a sound engineer) I was given was that you should ideally have twice as much bass as top, in terms of wattage - the 1501 is only 500 watts RMS (700W peak), the tops you have are the same (250w RMS x 2).

You need another sub... ;) Either a second 1501, or the aforementioned dB sub 15 (800w RMS).

Also, how have you got them linked? You should be getting some decent bass off 15" tops - have you got them linked from the hi-pass on the sub, by any chance? Try running them full range if you have.

Can't actually understand Wayne's problems. That is a fairly standard setup, one sub two tops, and rarely runs out of bass. Pagan, I understand what you say, but thought it made more sense to run tops as tops rather than full range, if only to keep the heat down to about gas mark five, ;) :D :D I simply feel that the sound is clearer if split as much as possible.

[Boogie Boy]

Could be a speaker cable/crossover is out of phase?

Maybe your ears are deceiving you? Sound always sounds different from behind the speakers and always sounds quieter too. Maybe your ears are very sensitive to mid range and therefore the 'sonic balance' is affected more when you step out in front of the speakers. Also, are we talking excessive bass being just about acceptable to you?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

There is a reason for this, but for the life of me I can't think why it is. I used to use the Mackie bins and found the same to a certain degree. Someone did tell me the technical reason for this - I'll try and find out again.

You shouldn't need 2 Mackie bins either unless you are playing particularly large venues.

[Boogie Boy]

Do you use your 'satellites' on the floor or on speaker stands? Also, if you use them on speaker stands, how high up do you normally have them?

Generally, you'll get a better overall bass response if they're on the floor. It'll also mean that the higher frequencies will be absorbed by the people dancing. OK, so long as you don't need to make announcements that people need to understand.

If on speaker stands, place them so that the woofers are just above average head height. That way the sound won't be totally on axis for most people's ears and will sound slightly more bass heavy.

Another trick might be to 'bounce' the sound of the satellites off of the back wall (the wall immediately behind you and the equipment). May sound ridiculous, but that can give a nice mellow sound. Also, satellites behind the bass bin (i.e. if a line were drawn across the front of the equipment, the satellites would be slightly behind that line) should give a more mellow, balanced sound. The further back you take the satellites, the more prominent the bass bin will become. Another thing is to not spread the speakers too far. Keep the satellites fairly tight (width wise) to the bass bin.

[CRAZY K]

Do you use your 'satellites' on the floor or on speaker stands? Also, if you use them on speaker stands, how high up do you normally have them?

Generally, you'll get a better overall bass response if they're on the floor. It'll also mean that the higher frequencies will be absorbed by the people dancing. OK, so long as you don't need to make announcements that people need to understand.

If on speaker stands, place them so that the woofers are just above average head height. That way the sound won't be totally on axis for most people's ears and will sound slightly more bass heavy.

Another trick might be to 'bounce' the sound of the satellites off of the back wall (the wall immediately behind you and the equipment). May sound ridiculous, but that can give a nice mellow sound. Also, satellites behind the bass bin (i.e. if a line were drawn across the front of the equipment, the satellites would be slightly behind that line) should give a more mellow, balanced sound. The further back you take the satellites, the more prominent the bass bin will become. Another thing is to not spread the speakers too far. Keep the satellites fairly tight (width wise) to the bass bin.

I dont do technical--but a lot of set ups have the sattelite immediately above the bass cab on a pole ( like mine) to avoid feedback amongst other things--not that it should be a problem with a decent set up and quality mike:D

Also its hard to believe after shelling out mega money for Mackie equipment you have this kind of problem, I was amazed by Dazs comment--presume the problem was solved?

I have not experienced this problem with a pair of matched Bins and tops on poles.

I agree with Dave and Daz, you should have loads of bass end, also agree with BB sounds like a dodgy lead, mismatch or faulty bass bin:eek:

CRAZY K

[BrightLights]

Bass sounds different in different parts of the room. It's affected by where the sub is and where your head is.

Generally, a sub placed near to a wall or in a corner will sound quite a bit louder than one further away. Also, as you walk around in a room you can hear the level of bass vary quite significantly. It's all about the long wavelength of bass sounds and the way they interact in an enclosed space. This is why recording studios have all sorts of fancy sound modelling and analysis done to them, bass traps, acoustic treatments, etc.

Obviously we don't have the luxury of analysing the room properly and we don't have many options as to where we put our sub(s). So the best we can do is to EQ everything from the audience's point of view - i.e. while standing on the dancefloor. If you EQ it while standing behind the decks it'll probably sound wrong on the dancefloor. Obviously it's less convenient if there's only one of you, but you get a much better sound. If it sounds really bassy and bad from behind the decks, resist the temptation to adjust it!

Maybe you already do EQ from the dancefloor, but my point is that you shouldn't be put off by how boomy and bad it sounds from behind the decks, because you'll know it sounds very different out front.

At a gig the other day I EQ'd everything from the dancefloor, then went back behind the decks and was amazed at how bassy and muddy it sounded back there - but on the dancefloor it sounded great. I also noticed that moving my head just a few feet closer to the sub actually made the muddy bass sound disappear and it sounded OK again.

So if this is what's going on then the solution to your problem might just be to turn it up a bit! On the other hand if you're already running your sub quite hard, maybe there's something else wrong...

[dj wayne]

Thanks for all your replys i will try some of your suggestions and see how i get on thanks once again.

regards

wayne

www.andersonentertainments.co.uk

[pagan_flame]

Can't actually understand Wayne's problems. That is a fairly standard setup, one sub two tops, and rarely runs out of bass. Pagan, I understand what you say, but thought it made more sense to run tops as tops rather than full range, if only to keep the heat down to about gas mark five, ;) :D :D I simply feel that the sound is clearer if split as much as possible.

I run the 450 Grilling Machines full range with a flat EQ down that end of the sliders, however I do push in the Low Cut button (which rolls it off below 70Hz).

I found that running them through hi-pass gives the harsh trebly sound that everyone complains that SRM's make.

No overheating problems in a year of use so far... yes they get warm on the back, it means the heat sinks are doing their job AFAIK.

[djdarch]

Hi there,

Id just try turning the tops down maybe 3db or so , its probably that the tops are a little bit more efficient than the bass bin. Obviously once the tops are turned down drive your master gain a little more.

Somone else suggested you could do with another bass bin , that in my eyes would be the best way to go, if you had 2 bass bins and placed them side by side you would gain 6db of bass. ( that is a substantial increase bear in mind evry 3db increase requires double the power).