D2: Ejecting devices before powering down

[rob1963]

I've just been reading my D2 instruction manual, and was concerned to read this:

"It is very important to always eject a storage device before unplugging it OR CUTTING THE POWER. This ensures that all files are properly closed and that all data has been saved to the device. Failure to follow this instruction can cause file system corruption which might render the device unusable."

I was already aware of the importance of ejecting my ipod before disconnecting it from the D2, but was unaware that powering down the D2 without ejecting my ipod could also cause the same problem.

This has me worried.....does it mean that on every occasion when the power is cut (by a sound limiter, for example) it will corrupt my ipod?

Have any of you digital DJs had a similar problem when the power was unexpectedly cut & you had problems with your music storage device when it came back?

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

:)

[Excalibur]

Oh yes, be careful Rob, one limiter cut and that's it, the whole Ipod memory wiped! I think Ipods are the only storage where this happens. Seriously, in my limited experience, it's not a problem, I have had this on the Cortex, and nothing corrupted yet.

[ppentertainments]

Oh yes, be careful Rob, one limiter cut and that's it, the whole Ipod memory wiped! I think Ipods are the only storage where this happens. Seriously, in my limited experience, it's not a problem, I have had this on the Cortex, and nothing corrupted yet.

But the cortex is more superior :D :D :D :D

Have had the cortex go down twice with sound limiter and no problems. Not something I would reccomend as anything electrical (esp computers etc) should be shut down properly.

Why use an Ipod anyway rob ?? would a external hard drive not do the job the same ??

[Penfold42]

Denon anyone?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Why use an Ipod anyway rob ?? would a external hard drive not do the job the same ??

I think we've had that topic a few dozen times....;)

[CRAZY K]

Hi Rob, no doubt VV will give you the answer as a regular user although I dont think he uses an Ipod?

Hmmm unlike the mains driven Hard Drives which would shut down exactly at the same time as the D2 in the event of a power cut obviously the I pod carries on as battery driven--however personally on the Cortex I have always closed the Cortex before shutting down the hard drive---then disconnecting the cable--so thats the same scenario:D

18 months later---no problems:thumbs_up:

Maybe you should have bought the Cortex :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I dont suppose theres a lot of basic difference between Cortex and D2--after all they are both USB readers.

However having NOW read the Cortex book 18months on I see the CORRECT procedure is to choose from the menu "eject device" --whooops !!!

I will be doing that in future--so far its not affected any of my hard drive files.

I imagine its a warning to protect the Manufacturers bottom:rolleyes:

In fact its identical to a PC which has an instruction to check any peripheral USB device is closed before removing "safely"

I have heard of this corruption problem when an external hard drive was removed from a PC belonging to a friend of my youngest son--but I reckon its fairly remote---unless someone knows otherwise?

regards

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

But the cortex is more superior :D :D :D :D

Have had the cortex go down twice with sound limiter and no problems. Not something I would reccomend as anything electrical (esp computers etc) should be shut down properly.

Why use an Ipod anyway rob ?? would a external hard drive not do the job the same ??
If only because it avoids beeing labelled as an Ipod DJ!

Denon anyone?
Not unless I win the Produb prize. :D


I think we've had that topic a few dozen times....;)

Deja Vu ;)

[Vectis]

Another good reason for using NTFS volumes. The d2 mounts them read-only.

Probably why I've never had a problem.

But I'm a good boy and always follow the eject sequence - ever since I blindly went off to a wedding a couple of years ago with a corrupt HDD from not doing the "safe eject" thing on windows. I got by that night thanks to the VV 6-point backup plan (which in those days was more like a 3-point plan :p ) but it was very squit-inducing running with a single copy of your prime dance tracks :cool:

I also have a small UPS in my deck case powering the d2 and DMX desk just in case of hiccups with the mains supply. My HDDs are USB powered.

[Tom]

Denon anyone?

I have never had this problem. At the end of a gig I always put both channels to the start page where you can select artist, album, title ect ect then just turn off the unit from the side switch. :)

[rob1963]

Why use an Ipod anyway rob ?? would a external hard drive not do the job the same ??

Yes, it probably would...but if I purchased an external hard drive, I wouldn't have a clue how to get the music onto it from my itunes music library, as I'm not very technical.

Any ideas?

That's why I went for the ipod option, as I just connect it to my computer & it automatically syncs with my itunes music library without me having to press a single button.

[Excalibur]

Another good reason for using NTFS volumes. The d2 mounts them read-only.



I also have a small UPS in my deck case powering the d2 and DMX desk just in case of hiccups with the mains supply. My HDDs are USB powered.

Thanks Vectis, for the reason why corruption of the drive hasn't been a problem. There's the reasom not to run FAT32 on your HD. I recently saw UPS devices in Staples for £50 upwards, and may invest in one at some point.

I have never had this problem. At the end of a gig I always put both channels to the start page where you can select artist, album, title ect ect then just turn off the unit from the side switch. :)
Which you can't do if the power goes off Tom. ;)

Yes, it probably would...but if I purchased an external hard drive, I wouldn't have a clue how to get the music onto it from my itunes music library, as I'm not very technical.

Any ideas?

That's why I went for the ipod option, as I just connect it to my computer & it automatically syncs with my itunes music library without me having to press a single button.

Neither was I mate, but I'm learning about MP3's, Ripping, HDD's , USB et al at a phenomenal rate!:eek: :D Soon I'll be at the idiot stage, with a bit of luck. :D

[Vectis]

There's the reasom not to run FAT32 on your HD. I recently saw UPS devices in Staples for £50 upwards, and may invest in one at some point.


Which means generating libraries etc. on a computer rather than the controller itself, which incidentally I don't do. I use a separate program on the laptop for searching rather than the built-in search on the d2.

I've seen small UPSs good enough for the task from about £25 in places like eBuyer, CPC etc. from time to time. Mine's a 450VA - only weighs a couple of kilos and is about the size of a large book.

[501damian501]

yes its allways important to close down any external storage, hard drives, external drives, before shutting down the main system, as this could mess everything up

[CRAZY K]

Yes, it probably would...but if I purchased an external hard drive, I wouldn't have a clue how to get the music onto it from my itunes music library, as I'm not very technical.

Any ideas?

That's why I went for the ipod option, as I just connect it to my computer & it automatically syncs with my itunes music library without me having to press a single button.

Rob, where is your i tunes library stored?

On your PC?

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Rob, where is your i tunes library stored?

On your PC?

CRAZY K

Yes Crazy.

[CRAZY K]

Yes Crazy.

All I do is burn a CD with all relevant I tunes tracks FROM THE I TUNES BANK.

This may involve several CDs.

Put CD in my laptop--(you could use your own PC) rip the tracks to MP3
at 320 and store in folder.

Then drag and drop the lot onto the stand alone hard drive which you plug into your PC or in my case Laptop.

Sound simple ????

You do of course need a pro Dub licence which you are buying shortly.

HTH

CRAZY K

[Vectis]

Then, of course, once you've mastered this art, you can upgrade to a virtual CD so rather than filling up a real one, you can skip that part.

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/xpvirtualcd.html

[Excalibur]

All I do is burn a CD with all relevant I tunes tracks FROM THE I TUNES BANK.

This may involve several CDs.

Put CD in my laptop--(you could use your own PC) rip the tracks to MP3
at 320 and store in folder.

Then drag and drop the lot onto the stand alone hard drive which you plug into your PC or in my case Laptop.

Sound simple ????

You do of course need a pro Dub licence which you are buying shortly.

HTH

CRAZY K


Then, of course, once you've mastered this art, you can upgrade to a virtual CD so rather than filling up a real one, you can skip that part.

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/xpvirtualcd.html

Until those last two posts, I was confident I knew something. Now I realise I don't! Therefore I'll just keep copying to a flash drive, and from there to my Hard Drives. Don't anybody say there's a better way, cos I can understand this one! :D

[djsteve10]

All my pc based systems and also the new Denon HD2500 are run off a battery pack that plugs into the mains, this ensures when the power trips for any reason, these remain on so i can disconnect any devices correctly and also shut down the machine correctly to avoid any damage.

[CRAZY K]

Until those last two posts, I was confident I knew something. Now I realise I don't! Therefore I'll just keep copying to a flash drive, and from there to my Hard Drives. Don't anybody say there's a better way, cos I can understand this one! :D

Thats fine Peter as long as you have 2 copies of a particular track on hard drives--I just trust a burned CD more than a flash drive/stick WHICH PRESUMABLY CAN GET CORRUPTED?

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Thats fine Peter as long as you have 2 copies of a particular track on hard drives--I just trust a burned CD more than a flash drive/stick WHICH PRESUMABLY CAN GET CORRUPTED?

CRAZY K

Why burn a CD? I load the flash drive, and place it on the Master HD, Travelling HD, and the stay at home back up HD in turn. Job done. I'm guessing flash drives are more stable, but that's only a guess.

[CRAZY K]

Why burn a CD? I load the flash drive, and place it on the Master HD, Travelling HD, and the stay at home back up HD in turn. Job done. I'm guessing flash drives are more stable, but that's only a guess.

BECAUSE ITS A PERMANENT COPY--

Music held on Flash drive or the hard drive on your computer could disappear---right now if they fail:rolleyes:

But if you have 2 HDs I guess no problem--just remember to leave one at home when your working to keep your pro dub licence cost down:D

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

BECAUSE ITS A PERMANENT COPY--

Music held on Flash drive or the hard drive on your computer could disappear---right now if they fail:rolleyes:

But if you have 2 HDs I guess no problem--just remember to leave one at home when your working to keep your pro dub licence cost down:D

CRAZY K

The last thing I want is a load of CDR's littered about the place! With three Hard drives, the traveller, the back up traveller WHICH STAYS AT HOME, and the back up back up which also stays at home, I'll take my chances. Downloads also have a built in back up for a period, and som of my CD's are showing signs of being way less than permanent. ;) ;)

[BeerFunk]

A few years back, I'd have trusted hard drives as far as I could throw them (still attached to a computer, as they're really not heavy), and I had full confidence in CDs, and DVDs too.

Nowadays, I'm finding the balance is shifting the other way. The general quality of CD-Rs/DVD-Rs has dropped due to an emphasis on mass sales and competitive pricing. Even some of the CD-Rs I burned years ago purely for long term backup (ie. not for regular use) have failed - costing me hours trying to salvage the data from them.

Also going back about a decade, when hard drives were typically only a few GB in size, I had a lot of hard drives crash and fail on me - bad sectors, complete corruption, you name it. Today, I can't remember the last time I even had a bad sector on a drive, never mind a complete crash or fail. Taking into account the increasing storage capacity (my largest drive being 1TB), that is a vast improvement in commercial hard drive technology.

So... CD or hard drive - I'm not so sure now!

[rob1963]

So... CD or hard drive - I'm not so sure now!

Definately Hard drive.

My music is on two 80gb ipod classics.

However, I'm also thinking of getting a 2gb ipod nano & loading it with my 300 most-played songs for extra back up...

...as I've just found out that ipod nanos use flash memory rather than hard drives, so there are no moving parts to go wrong.

:D

[ppentertainments]

Definately Hard drive.

My music is on two 80gb ipod classics.

However, I'm also thinking of getting a 2gb ipod nano & loading it with my 300 most-played songs for extra back up...

...as I've just found out that ipod nanos use flash memory rather than hard drives, so there are no moving parts to go wrong.

:D

Go for it Rob, you will defo be king of the Ipod dj's then :D :D :D :D .
Have yo thought about forming a club - only joking :D :D :zip:
By the way make sure your produb license covers your extra tracks.

[CRAZY K]

A few years back, I'd have trusted hard drives as far as I could throw them (still attached to a computer, as they're really not heavy), and I had full confidence in CDs, and DVDs too.

Nowadays, I'm finding the balance is shifting the other way. The general quality of CD-Rs/DVD-Rs has dropped due to an emphasis on mass sales and competitive pricing. Even some of the CD-Rs I burned years ago purely for long term backup (ie. not for regular use) have failed - costing me hours trying to salvage the data from them.

Also going back about a decade, when hard drives were typically only a few GB in size, I had a lot of hard drives crash and fail on me - bad sectors, complete corruption, you name it. Today, I can't remember the last time I even had a bad sector on a drive, never mind a complete crash or fail. Taking into account the increasing storage capacity (my largest drive being 1TB), that is a vast improvement in commercial hard drive technology.

So... CD or hard drive - I'm not so sure now!

Fair comments--personally and for Peters benefit I would trust Mini Disc above ALL OTHER STORAGE MEDIUMS.

My life times collection of Barn Dance Music for my show is held on Minii discs
with back up copies.

CRAZY K

[Vectis]

Fair comments--personally and for Peters benefit I would trust Mini Disc above ALL OTHER STORAGE MEDIUMS.

My life times collection of Barn Dance Music for my show is held on Minii discs
with back up copies.

CRAZY K


I'd agree with that statement. MD is definitely the most robust of all formats. Here's my trust order based on an assumption that the same level of care is taken irrespective of format:

1. MD
2. CD (pressed)
3. DVD (pressed)
4. Flash media, write protected
5. CD-R
6. HDD (with proper husbandry)
7. CD-RW
8. Vinyl
9. DVD+/-R
10. DVD+/-RW
11. Cassette

Anyone care to disagree?

[Danno13]

Surely Cds are easier to break & scratch than a hard drive is to break?

[nigelwright7557]

Oh yes, be careful Rob, one limiter cut and that's it, the whole Ipod memory wiped! I think Ipods are the only storage where this happens. Seriously, in my limited experience, it's not a problem, I have had this on the Cortex, and nothing corrupted yet.

Ipods have flash memory and under normal circumstances it is quite hard to corrupt them. If you remove power while it is writing to the flash memory then that can cause corruption.
The flash memory needs an exact sequence of control numbers to put it into write mode before you can put data into it. I know because I have designed systems with flash memory in them.

[rob1963]

Ipods have flash memory

I think that depends on the model.

For example, my ipod classic has a hard drive, although I believe the ipod nano uses a flash memory.

:)

[Excalibur]

Has anyone actually answered Rob's question? If the D2 is using memory it can write to then presumably it CAN be corrupted in a power cut? Same obviously goes for Cortex, particularly when using flash drives in FAT32. Clarification please from the Technocrats. Thanks.

[JAMdisco]

Has anyone actually answered Rob's question? If the D2 is using memory it can write to then presumably it CAN be corrupted in a power cut? Same obviously goes for Cortex, particularly when using flash drives in FAT32. Clarification please from the Technocrats. Thanks.

You could always invest in a UPS :p

OR...

A laptop with a battery (I believe most new laptops come with batteries as standard these days) :p :D

[Vectis]

Has anyone actually answered Rob's question? If the D2 is using memory it can write to then presumably it CAN be corrupted in a power cut? Same obviously goes for Cortex, particularly when using flash drives in FAT32. Clarification please from the Technocrats. Thanks.

Exactamundo.

Same goes for any digital device writing to any storage device. Some file system standards are more robust than others and can "cope" better with such events but nothing is as robust as a read-only file system hence why I choose to use NTFS with my d2 as the d2 isn't capable of mounting it read-write.

[rob1963]

Has anyone actually answered Rob's question?

I don't think so...and yet people accuse ME of making off-topic & irrelevant posts!


If the D2 is using memory it can write to then presumably it CAN be corrupted in a power cut? Same obviously goes for Cortex, particularly when using flash drives in FAT32. Clarification please from the Technocrats. Thanks.

Excalibur, thanks for your post, but I've already made a decision how to proceed (based on the lack of a clear answer on this one).

I obviously don't want to risk having a £150 ipod corrupted just because the power goes off...particularly to an over-sensitive sound limiter, for example.

I've therefore decided that when I start using my digital console, I will also take my current CD console and all CDs to every gig.

That way, if I arrive at a venue to discover there is a sound limiter which I knew nothing about, I'll be able to use my CD console & CDs...rather than using my digital set-up & risking the hassle & cost of a corrupted ipod.

The other advantage of having my CD console & all CDs with me is that it will also be extra back-up, in case of problems with my digital console.

This seems to be the sensible & least expensive way forward, hence my decision.

:)

[Vectis]

Rob. You have a computer (I presume, as you're typing posts on here somehow :p ). All you need now are 3 self-powered external HDDs and a small 450VA UPS. Format the HDDs NTFS (computer can write to them but d2 can't). Use the computer to generate the library. Put all your music on one HDD and clone it (connect two at a time and drag-n-drop). Put your d2 on a UPS.

Virtually bomb-proof, and if you do somehow lose an HDD (damage, theft) use another.

I've been using mp3/HDD for well over 5 years now exclusively.

[CRAZY K]

I don't think so...and yet people accuse ME of making off-topic & irrelevant posts!



Excalibur, thanks for your post, but I've already made a decision how to proceed (based on the lack of a clear answer on this one).

I obviously don't want to risk having a £150 ipod corrupted just because the power goes off...particularly to an over-sensitive sound limiter, for example.

I've therefore decided that when I start using my digital console, I will also take my current CD console and all CDs to every gig.

That way, if I arrive at a venue to discover there is a sound limiter which I knew nothing about, I'll be able to use my CD console & CDs...rather than using my digital set-up & risking the hassle & cost of a corrupted ipod.

The other advantage of having my CD console & all CDs with me is that it will also be extra back-up, in case of problems with my digital console.

This seems to be the sensible & least expensive way forward, hence my decision.

:)

I suggested you could have a mains powered hard drive which I imagine would solve the problem technically--even if not from a convenience point of view.

You can always ask the boffins at D2---Cortex technical back up has proved extremely helpful and you can speak to real live people easily and without cost:D no doubt there is a D2 helpline of some sort?

As I said previously--- I have for 18 months apparently been abusing my hard drive( without side effects) by removing it from the Cortex USB reader WITHOUT using the correct procedure. I.E. seek permission from the Cortex to safely remove HD or stick:eek: Naturally my back up hard drive is left at home to comply with Pro Dub regulations. :bang:

Is not the answer to put a question on your website/ enuiry forms asking if theres a sound limiter and in your T and C a disclaimer for failure to deliver your service if they dont tell you---just in case?

SURELY ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN HUMPING CD CASES AND A CONSOLE???

You said yourself--(I think) you can afford to avoid these venues--go for it!!!!!!!!

regards

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Thanks for the advice, Vectis.

:)

[Vectis]

Thanks for the advice, Vectis.

:)

No probs.

I did, of course, simplify the original explanation because the VV6PBP is too complex to inflict on mere mortals :D

Just to complete the picture I'll share a couple of other nuggets about how I manage my music.

At home I have a large NAS with lots of disk storage holding all kinds of personal and business "stuff" - one of which is my 'music archive' which I update annually, contains absolutely everything I/the business owns, and is then backed-up off-site on a standalone drive. I also carry a copy of this in the van as a third-level backup/emergency oddball requests drive.

I then have about 100GB-worth of "Disco Friendly" tunes which is stored in a seperate directory on the NAS and is my master from which I clone the portable HDDs I take out to gigs. This gets refreshed about every 4-6 weeks with newer stuff, or with stuff in the wider archive that I have had requested for upcoming gigs.

In the meantime, I use a couple of 4GB memory sticks to manage newly downloaded or acquired tracks.

So a typical gig will see me connect a portable HDD and a memory stick to my d2, and the same to a laptop. A third portable HDD is on-hand in case of problems and the ultimate backup is hidden in the van.

It sounds like a lot of aggro but really it isn't. The memory sticks are flushed up to the Disco Master every now and then (and also copied into an "Incoming" folder on the main archive) and then the whole lot is resynced back to the three portable HDDs. Once a year I spend a day or so cleaning up and refreshing/backing up the archive.

[Larry B Entertainment]

I've just been reading my D2 instruction manual, and was concerned to read this:

"It is very important to always eject a storage device before unplugging it OR CUTTING THE POWER. This ensures that all files are properly closed and that all data has been saved to the device. Failure to follow this instruction can cause file system corruption which might render the device unusable."

I was already aware of the importance of ejecting my ipod before disconnecting it from the D2, but was unaware that powering down the D2 without ejecting my ipod could also cause the same problem.

This has me worried.....does it mean that on every occasion when the power is cut (by a sound limiter, for example) it will corrupt my ipod?

Have any of you digital DJs had a similar problem when the power was unexpectedly cut & you had problems with your music storage device when it came back?

Thanks in advance for any help with this.

:)

I bought a nifty little Belkin UPS from PC World for 50 notes. It has 3 IEC sockets on the back and will give upto 20mins of power in the event of a cut, enough to power down safely. Quite small and easy to carry and USB controlled so the status can be checked on the computer.

[rob1963]

I bought a nifty little Belkin UPS from PC World for 50 notes. It has 3 IEC sockets on the back and will give upto 20mins of power in the event of a cut, enough to power down safely. Quite small and easy to carry and USB controlled so the status can be checked on the computer.

Thanks for the info, rocket.

It sounds like that's the kind of thing I'm after...not that I'd need it to give 20 minutes of power...in the event of a power cut, I'd only need long enough to safely eject my ipod from my D2...so less than a minute for each time the power cut off would be enough.

:)