Bouncy cheque

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I've had one recently from a bank social club.

Should I charge them a bouncing fee and interest?

[andyw]

are they regular clients,is this the first time it has happened from them,i think i would charge them the bouncing fee.

[501damian501]

yup 100% charge them a bouncing fee !

[Jiggles]

Next time tell them not to make them out of rubber. Sorry :o

I think you should. Its all wasted time! If you sent a cheque to BT or that and it bounced then they would charge you.

[CRAZY K]

I've had one recently from a bank social club.

Should I charge them a bouncing fee and interest?

ERRR NOT LAST FRIDAYS GIG I HOPE?????????

YES was my answer

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

ERRR NOT LAST FRIDAYS GIG I HOPE?????????



Unfortunately yes....

Something to do with an old cheque book. I'm awaiting a phone call back from them. Check your account Alan.

[HaiFai]

If it isn't a regular client then I would charge them any fees I have been charged for the rubber cheque plus an admin charge. If it's a regular client I wouldn't charge this time but I would send a letter stating a charge would be made for any future cheques that bounce.

[Sapphire Disco]

I think you should send them a snotty letter with a charge & call them into your office for a dressing down and explain if they do it again you may have to repossess their bank.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think you should send them a snotty letter with a charge & call them into your office for a dressing down and explain if they do it again you may have to repossess their bank.

Ooooh, I'd so love to do that.

It's not my bank unfortunately. :(

[rob1963]

I've had one recently from a bank social club.

Should I charge them a bouncing fee and interest?

I guess it depends on:

1) Whether they are a regular client, and

2) If there is anything about bounced cheques in your terms & conditions.

:)

[Steve the DJ]

If the act of bouncing hasn't cost you anything then I would just do as you are and pursue (nicely) on the phone an alternative payment.

If you do get charged for bounced cheques have you covered this fact in your T&C's?

I haven't, but I don't get charged for a bounced cheque, the client does.

However it does state I will charge interest of Bank of England base rate + 3% for every day a payment is outstanding, although I have never had to charge anything yet!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If the act of bouncing hasn't cost you anything then I would just do as you are and pursue (nicely) on the phone an alternative payment.



And does the act of bouncing a cheque cost a bank anything then? It certainly doesn't cost £35 or whatever they charge when it happens.

I eventually spoke to the woman who was very embarrassed and must have apologised a dozen times in our 2 minute conversation.

They are sending me a personal cheque instead.

[Shaun]

Did you charge them any extra, Daz?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Did you charge them any extra, Daz?

No. She had already told me that another cheque was on its way.

[ppentertainments]

Am suprised at you allowing them to pay by cheque on the night Daz.

[CRAZY K]

Unfortunately yes....

Something to do with an old cheque book. I'm awaiting a phone call back from them. Check your account Alan.

We seem to be ok --

Sorry what can I say???????????????

Did she say what a great night it was ---or was that only whilst I was there

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Only joking:D :D :D

ALAN
CRAZY K

[CRAZY K]

Am suprised at you allowing them to pay by cheque on the night Daz.

It was in advance--not that it helped:(

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Am suprised at you allowing them to pay by cheque on the night Daz.

They didn't pay by cheque on the night. They paid 10 days before.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

We seem to be ok --

Sorry what can I say???????????????

Did she say what a great night it was ---or was that only whilst I was there

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Only joking:D :D :D

ALAN
CRAZY K

No, it improved apparantly. :boxer2:

Everyone could hear again after about 30 mins...not that I was told you are loud on the mic. :D

[rob1963]

And does the act of bouncing a cheque cost a bank anything then? It certainly doesn't cost £35 or whatever they charge when it happens.

I thought that's what all businesses did...charging clients more than it actually costs THEM in the first place.

Isn't that how businesses make a profit?

:confused:

[CRAZY K]

No, it improved apparantly. :boxer2:

Everyone could hear again after about 30 mins...not that I was told you are loud on the mic. :D

Always gets rid of those whingers who say---we cant hear what your saying;)

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I thought that's what all businesses did...charging clients more than it actually costs THEM in the first place.

Isn't that how businesses make a profit?

:confused:

Very clever Rob and I thought you worked in a bank.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399355/Watchdog-crackdown-illegal-overdraft-charges.html

Note the phrase "The watchdog said the penalty charges must reflect the actual cost to the banks generated by an unauthorised overdraft, and not be used to boost profits."

[rob1963]

Very clever Rob and I thought you worked in a bank.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399355/Watchdog-crackdown-illegal-overdraft-charges.html

Note the phrase "The watchdog said the penalty charges must reflect the actual cost to the banks generated by an unauthorised overdraft, and not be used to boost profits."

The problem is, how many OTHER businesses have charges which don't reflect their ACTUAL costs?

I just don't understand why banks have been singled out when so many other businesses do the same thing.

For example, how many current affairs programmes or news programmes have started campaigns to get people back their charges paid to a certain online auction site (which I understand takes around a BILLION pounds a year in charges)?

:shrug:

[ppentertainments]

They didn't pay by cheque on the night. They paid 10 days before.

Sorry, I just assumed had paid on the night if cheque had not cleared beforehand. :zip:

[Danno13]

I had this happen to me last week too! They just transfered me the money in the end and I haven't had a charge from the bank yet. I think mine only charge if I represent the cheque, you get one bounce for free!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The problem is, how many OTHER businesses have charges which don't reflect their ACTUAL costs?




How many other businesses are there that charge like banks do?

How on earth can you defend banks when they make billions of pounds profit each year and charge £35 to tell you that you went 1p over your overdraft limit.

How can 1 letter cost £35?

[theoloyla]

How many other businesses are there that charge like banks do?

How on earth can you defend banks when they make billions of pounds profit each year and charge £35 to tell you that you went 1p over your overdraft limit.

How can 1 letter cost £35?
I agree. A bank manager is a man who will lend you an umbrella when the sun is shining and as soon as it starts to rain he wants it back!:)

[rob1963]

How many other businesses are there that charge like banks do?

How on earth can you defend banks when they make billions of pounds profit each year and charge £35 to tell you that you went 1p over your overdraft limit.

How can 1 letter cost £35?

Darren,

I'm not defending the banks....far from it.

The reason I left after 24 years was due to pay & conditions which became unacceptable to me, despite the bank making massive profits.

It's fashionable to knock the banks these days, but the point I'm making is that there are TWO sides to every coin.

A recent thread which many people agreed with suggested that we as DJs (as well as all other businesses) should charge for every aspect of our service...and even more so for the things that physically cost us money.

However, banks DON'T.....and that's a fact! :eek: :eek: :eek:

For example, if you remain in credit, all the basic banking services are free for personal customers, even though they cost the bank money & banks in other countries DO charge for many of these services.

Every cheque you pay into a personal account costs the bank around 50p to clear, but they don't charge customers anything for this...neither do they charge for providing cards, cheque books, paying in books, statements, cheque book covers, statement binders, cash withdrawals or deposits over the counter or through their cash machines or setting up / amending / paying standing orders & direct debits, making transfers...as well as many other services.

Out of interest, how many aspects of YOUR service to clients are there which physically cost you money but which you don't charge them for?

As for being charged £35 for a letter advising you've gone overdrawn or exceeded your overdraft limit, in all my time in the bank, when there were only small amounts involved (although very often a lot more than 1p), we would usually refund these charges.

However, in these days of online banking, telephone banking & banking through cash machines, it's easier than it's ever been to keep track of the transactions on your account...and therefore easier to avoid going overdrawn or exceeding your overdraft limit and incurring charges.

I have little sympathy for people who can't even manage or don't bother to keep a check on their account, and in my opinion they deserve to go overdrawn & end up getting charged.

Anyone who has problems keeping track of their account can also obtain a wallet register from the bank, which is a booklet where they can record details of transactions. Once again, there is no charge for these.

If the English banking system is as bad as many would have us believe, you have to wonder why it's still the envy of the world.

As I said, every coin has two sides.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren,


For example, if you remain in credit, all the basic banking services are free for personal customers

I'm a business customer with 6 accounts and I pay charges


Every cheque you pay into a personal account costs the bank around 50p to clear, but they don't charge customers anything for this...neither do they charge for providing cards, cheque books, paying in books, statements, cheque book covers, statement binders, cash withdrawals or deposits over the counter or through their cash machines or setting up / amending / paying standing orders & direct debits, making transfers...as well as many other services.

And you think that banks should charge us for cheque books and debit cards to spend out own money that the are earning interest on? Banks make their money from overdrafts and loans and business charges, so don't talk wet Rob. You've already said they are in business. You don't think that giving the client cheque books etc will not encourage them to use the banks for loans and mortgages etc

Out of interest, how many aspects of YOUR service to clients are there which physically cost you money but which you don't charge them for?

Good example - the bank whose cheque bounced. I had to ring them and send them paperwork, but I didn't charge them £35 for the priveledge. I also source and pay for music for clients and don't charge them, as well as supplying paperwork for free (not that I'd charge them, but then I was just using your crap example about banks not charging for cheque books or statements

As for being charged £35 for a letter advising you've gone overdrawn or exceeded your overdraft limit, in all my time in the bank, when there were only small amounts involved (although very often a lot more than 1p), we would usually refund these charges.

Sorry, but I have had first hand experience of this, so don't agree.

However, in these days of online banking, telephone banking & banking through cash machines, it's easier than it's ever been to keep track of the transactions on your account...and therefore easier to avoid going overdrawn or exceeding your overdraft limit and incurring charges.

I have little sympathy for people who can't even manage or don't bother to keep a check on their account, and think they deserve to go overdrawn & end up getting charged.

It must be great to be as perfect as you Rob and never get anything wrong. Mistakes happen.


As I said, every coin has two sides.



And as usual, you are just giving one unbiased (not) side!

As long as you're not defending the banks...:rolleyes:

[rob1963]

[QUOTE] I'm a business customer with 6 accounts and I pay charges

And I'm a business customer who pays charges, but I also have personal accounts which don't cost me a penny.

[QUOTE] You don't think that giving the client cheque books etc will not encourage them to use the banks for loans and mortgages etc

Of COURSE I don't think that. Whether or not I have a cheque book or card will make NO difference whatsoever to whether I apply for a loan or a mortgage.

Also, my bank regularly increasing my overdraft limit & credit card limit makes no difference whatsoever to how much I spend, although I accept I have more common sense than many.

Out of interest, how many aspects of YOUR service to clients are there which physically cost you money but which you don't charge them for?

[QUOTE] Good example - the bank whose cheque bounced. I had to ring them and send them paperwork, but I didn't charge them £35 for the priveledge. I also source and pay for music for clients and don't charge them, as well as supplying paperwork for free (not that I'd charge them, but then I was just using your crap example about banks not charging for cheque books or statements

That's interesting, as I'm pretty sure I've seen you do posts saying that we should charge clients for ALL aspects of our service & the work we do.

Maybe I've got it wrong, or maybe you've just changed your mind since then.

[QUOTE] It must be great to be as perfect as you Rob and never get anything wrong.

With all due respect, now YOU'RE the one talking crap, as I've never said anything of the sort.

If a chart was compiled of the MDD forum members who think the most of themselves, I'd be WAY down the list...as you well know.

Know anyone who would be above me?

[QUOTE] Mistakes happen.

They do indeed, and when they do we have to pay the consequences...that's life.

However, anyone with half a brain will LEARN from their mistakes.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

[
Maybe I've got it wrong, or maybe you've just changed your mind since then

Or maybe you are twisting my words as you so often do, to suit.

Not the first time.

[rob1963]

Or maybe you are twisting my words as you so often do, to suit.

And this is from the person who said "It must be great to be as perfect as you Rob and never get anything wrong."

Touche!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And this is from the person who said "It must be great to be as perfect as you Rob and never get anything wrong."

Touche!

I have no idea what you are on about - all I know is you are twisting my words. This conversation and thread is at an end cos as usual it has been taken off topic by the twisting of words.

[rob1963]

This conversation and thread is at an end cos as usual it has been taken off topic by the twisting of words.

If that comment is directed at me, then I apologise for my off topic posts in this thread (although I notice I wasn't the first person to make an off-topic post!).

As for the twisting of words, I'm afraid I have no idea what that means, and am therefore unable to comment further.

[Steve the DJ]

Just trying to drag thinks back on track for a mo, I seem to remember (having spent some time in Financial Services) that a cheque can bounce up to 14 days after it has hit your account.

It can also on rare occasions show as cleared and then bounce as various bank systems update at different times (although as everything goes through a clearing house I have never understood this).

On a personal level I have had an instance where I paid a cheque in on a Monday, it showed as "cleared" in my account on the Thursday so I took some cash out and on Friday the cheque was "uncleared" and the funds taken back out again.

I then received the cheque back in the post the following week marked as "refer to payer".

For this reason I insist all payments are made no later than 30 days prior to an event.

[rob1963]

Just trying to drag thinks back on track for a mo, I seem to remember (having spent some time in Financial Services) that a cheque can bounce up to 14 days after it has hit your account.


Unless things have changed in the 4 years since I left, I understand a bank must bounce a cheque by 12 noon on the working day after they receive it...and they will receive it two working days after you pay it into your account.

The problem is caused by the fact that bouncing a cheque is a manual system which often has to rely on several different trips through the post.

Therefore, it takes two days for the bank to receive it, they could bounce it the following day, it could take a few days in the post to get back to the bank where you paid it in, it might then need to be sent back to your account holding bank (if that's different), and another few days for them to write to you about it.

Therefore, if you pay in a cheque which bounces, it's quite possible for it to take 14 days until you finally get to KNOW if it's bounced...even though most banks will let you draw against cheques paid in within a few days.

[Steve the DJ]

Therefore, if you pay in a cheque which bounces, it's quite possible for it to take 14 days until you finally get to KNOW if it's bounced...even though most banks will let you draw against cheques paid in within a few days.

So I'm right then. :D

[rob1963]

So I'm right then. :D

You are indeed...I was just trying to explain why it can take so long!

:)

[kilmeedyman]

[QUOTE]Mistakes happen.

They do indeed, and when they do we have to pay the consequences...that's life.

However, anyone with half a brain will LEARN from their mistakes.
Ahh, but Rob, here's the point..

The banks aren't there to educate people. They are only allowed by law to to 'charge' the customer in order to recoup the cost of bouncing a cheque or payment or paying against uncleareds etc. Its these charges which have been proved to be under 50 pence for automated transactions (including posting a letter) and under £1 for transactions requiring manual intervention (eg. cheque bouncing).

Now you suggest the banks are to punish us so we can learn. The only organisations that can punish us (fine us) are courts and local authorities or those contracted to work on behalf of them (eg. police, parking companies etc.)

Do you think that banks are putting themselves in this category? Banks are private companies with little or no morals? I don't think so.

Additionally you say that banks give their customers things for free. Only ever as an enticement and even then the way banks make their money mean that everything they do is profitable in some way. After all keeping a private customer GUARANTEES two things for a bank:-

1) Clearing chques or tranferring money, which should take a matter of seconds, still takes in many cases, at least three days. A hark back to the days of porters of different banks exchanging cheques in the cafes of London. Actually it does only take a short time and the banks make BILLIONS by not giving cutomers the benefit of their money for three, four or even seven days.

2) All the time a customer has money in a bank account that bank are investing that customer's money overnight or for even longer on the money markets, yet again making BILLIONS in interest themselves for the pleasure of holding our money. Do they pass that on to the customer - occasionally as a gimmick they may give 1% for positive current account balances.

So you see its disingenuous to even suggest that banks aren't making money out of everything they do, because they are - even when a customer is always in credit and never 'makes a mistake'.

Oh, I received a letter from Halifax this morning to say that a debit card transaction for Homebase for £2.99 was paid even though it took me £1.14 over my overdraft limit because a cheque I paid in on Tuesday am has not cleared yet. Guess what? They have charged me £35.00 to pay that £2.99. Not negotiated, not discussed, they will just take it from my money or further increase my overdraft in doing so. Immoral.

[CRAZY K]

[QUOTE=rob1963;256128]
Ahh, but Rob, here's the point..

The banks aren't there to educate people. They are only allowed by law to to 'charge' the customer in order to recoup the cost of bouncing a cheque or payment or paying against uncleareds etc. Its these charges which have been proved to be under 50 pence for automated transactions (including posting a letter) and under £1 for transactions requiring manual intervention (eg. cheque bouncing).

Now you suggest the banks are to punish us so we can learn. The only organisations that can punish us (fine us) are courts and local authorities or those contracted to work on behalf of them (eg. police, parking companies etc.)

Do you think that banks are putting themselves in this category? Banks are private companies with little or no morals? I don't think so.

Additionally you say that banks give their customers things for free. Only ever as an enticement and even then the way banks make their money mean that everything they do is profitable in some way. After all keeping a private customer GUARANTEES two things for a bank:-

1) Clearing chques or tranferring money, which should take a matter of seconds, still takes in many cases, at least three days. A hark back to the days of porters of different banks exchanging cheques in the cafes of London. Actually it does only take a short time and the banks make BILLIONS by not giving cutomers the benefit of their money for three, four or even seven days.

2) All the time a customer has money in a bank account that bank are investing that customer's money overnight or for even longer on the money markets, yet again making BILLIONS in interest themselves for the pleasure of holding our money. Do they pass that on to the customer - occasionally as a gimmick they may give 1% for positive current account balances.

So you see its disingenuous to even suggest that banks aren't making money out of everything they do, because they are - even when a customer is always in credit and never 'makes a mistake'.

Oh, I received a letter from Halifax this morning to say that a debit card transaction for Homebase for £2.99 was paid even though it took me £1.14 over my overdraft limit because a cheque I paid in on Tuesday am has not cleared yet. Guess what? They have charged me £35.00 to pay that £2.99. Not negotiated, not discussed, they will just take it from my money or further increase my overdraft in doing so. Immoral.

Barclays have introuced a new feature on my/our accounts that allows for this kind of thing --its called Personal Reserve and its err FREE apparently so you can have a bit more leeway if theres a problem --its an overdraft on top of an overdraft--brilliant eh?


CRAZY K

[discomobiledj]

[QUOTE=kilmeedyman;256580]

Barclays have introuced a new feature on my/our accounts that allows for this kind of thing --its called Personal Reserve and its err FREE apparently so you can have a bit more leeway if theres a problem --its an overdraft on top of an overdraft--brilliant eh?


CRAZY K

Charged at £25 per month if you use it! Makes total sense!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well, 3 days after it was promised, the second cheque hasn't turned up. I'm now starting to get slightly miffed.

Just as I was posting this....I get a phone call back from my call today. Apparantly the cheque was sent Monday, but with a second class stamp..."Sorry, we didn't think to send it first class"

Pathetic. If it doesn't arrive tomorrow, they are going to hand deliver a cheque to my house over the weekend.

I really feel like sending them an invoice for interest and charges now.

[Penfold42]

You would think a bank social club would know better....:bang:

And how will they give it too you this weekend....your Norf bound ....

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And how will they give it too you this weekend....your Norf bound ....

I'll have my secretary wait in for it. :D

[CRAZY K]

Well, 3 days after it was promised, the second cheque hasn't turned up. I'm now starting to get slightly miffed.

Just as I was posting this....I get a phone call back from my call today. Apparantly the cheque was sent Monday, but with a second class stamp..."Sorry, we didn't think to send it first class"

Pathetic. If it doesn't arrive tomorrow, they are going to hand deliver a cheque to my house over the weekend.

I really feel like sending them an invoice for interest and charges now.

Darren, im really sorry to hear this--unbelievable.

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren, im really sorry to hear this--unbelievable.

CRAZY K

And I blame it all on Alan who pushed the work our way! :D :D :D

[Penfold42]

:laughup:

[Jiggles]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/aal0010l.jpg

[CRAZY K]

[QUOTE=CRAZY K ROADSHOW;256603]

Charged at £25 per month if you use it! Makes total sense!

£22 for the first 5 days--£22 EVERY 5 DAYS AFTER THAT :eek:

Cheaper than Halifax:D

I dont need it---some do!

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

The banks aren't there to educate people. They are only allowed by law to to 'charge' the customer in order to recoup the cost of bouncing a cheque or payment.

I'm sorry, but I don't really understand that.

If a bank is only allowed to pass on their own ACTUAL costs & charges to customers, how would they ever make a profit?

That's like a company buying ipods for £150 each & only being allowed to sell them to their customers for £150.

:shrug:


Now you suggest the banks are to punish us so we can learn.

With all due respect, I'm NOT suggesting the banks are there to punish us so we learn.

I'm suggesting that if we make a mistake which costs us money, most of us will probably take steps to avoid it happening again.

In other words, the most effective way to learn is not through reading or being told something, but from our own mistakes


Clearing cheques or tranferring money, which should take a matter of seconds, still takes in many cases, at least three days.

I must correct you here.

For a cheque to clear, it needs to go through the clearing house & back to the bank & branch it's drawn on in order for it to be paid.

How is it possible for that process to happen in a matter of seconds?

:confused:


So you see its disingenuous to even suggest that banks aren't making money out of everything they do, because they are - even when a customer is always in credit and never 'makes a mistake'.


I'm sorry, but that's simply not the case.

It's a fact that millions of customers stay in credit & therefore get completely free banking for all the standard services on their personal accounts.....including myself & a number of people I know.

Who in their right mind would pay for a service when there are very easy (and obviously legal) ways of getting it for free?


I received a letter from Halifax this morning to say that a debit card transaction for Homebase for £2.99 was paid even though it took me £1.14 over my overdraft limit because a cheque I paid in on Tuesday am has not cleared yet. Guess what? They have charged me £35.00 to pay that £2.99. Not negotiated, not discussed, they will just take it from my money or further increase my overdraft in doing so. Immoral.

Why did you have no idea that you had reached your overdraft limit?

When people open accounts or apply for any borrowing, they are given leaflets giving full details for the charges.

If they don't bother to read them, and don't bother to keep a check on their account, how can they moan when it all goes pear shaped & they get charged?

:confused:

It would be interesting to see how many people would moan about our banks if they had experienced the alternatives is many OTHER countries.

If our banks are so bad, why is the UK banking system the envy of the world? and why is London the financial capital of the world?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If a bank is only allowed to pass on their own ACTUAL costs & charges to customers, how would they ever make a profit?



For someone who worked in a bank, that really is laughable Rob.

[rob1963]

For someone who worked in a bank, that really is laughable Rob.

I'm always happy to be a source of amusement, Darren.

:D

EDIT: However, It was good to see you didn't say the same about all the other points I made in the same post.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm always happy to be a source of amusement, Darren.

:D

EDIT: However, It was good to see you didn't say the same about all the other points I made in the same post.

I really couldn't be bothered Rob, 'cos you are always right, so what's the point.

[rob1963]

I really couldn't be bothered Rob, 'cos you are always right, so what's the point.

:confused:

Have I ever said I'm always right?

If so, I'd be interested to know where.

If not, then I guess you're twisting my words...something which only yesterday you complained about ME doing!

I think you did the same thing a day or two back, with your comment about how it must be nice for me being perfect & never making any mistakes...something ELSE which I've never said, or even remotely suggested.

So why say it?

I really don't mind people accusing me of things...as long as they are TRUE!

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear the eventual outcome of your problem with the bounced cheque.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:confused:

Have I ever said I'm always right?

If so, I'd be interested to know where.

If not, then I guess you're twisting my words...something which only yesterday you complained about ME doing!

I think you did the same thing a day or two back, with your comment about how it must be nice for me being perfect & never making any mistakes...something ELSE which I've never said, or even remotely suggested.

So why say it?

I really don't mind people accusing me of things...as long as they are TRUE!




You can't just leave it can you Rob?

You go on and on, trying to create problems with your posts.

Why bother?

[rob1963]

You can't just leave it can you Rob?

When I'm accused of things I'm not guilty of, then no, I can't leave it.


You go on and on, trying to create problems with your posts.

What a ridiculous thing to say...of course I don't.

How many of my 12,000 posts would you say have been attempts to create problems?

:confused:

[DazzyD]

So you see its disingenuous to even suggest that banks aren't making money out of everything they do, because they are - even when a customer is always in credit and never 'makes a mistake'.




I'm sorry, but that's simply not the case.

It's a fact that millions of customers stay in credit & therefore get completely free banking for all the standard services on their personal accounts.....including myself & a number of people I know.

Who in their right mind would pay for a service when there are very easy (and obviously legal) ways of getting it for free?


Rob, kilmeedyman is correct when he says that banks make money even out of those who are always in credit and never make a mistake. I don't think he's suggesting that people are being charged for being in credit but rather that the banks use customers money to invest (often at high interest - high risk as was the case with Northern Rock and several other failed banks). The interest paid to these customers is nowhere near the interest the banks make.

As for being charged, I ended my account with Lloyds TSB because they took their service charge out of my account 3 days before it was due out. The Direct Debit that was due out the following day was returned unpaid because it would have made me 12p overdrawn and I was charged £27.50. I challenged this with the branch deputy manager who said it had nothing to do with him as it was done by the automated banking system and, no, I wouldn't be refunded this charge. Then it was goodbye Lloyds TSB hello Co-Operative Bank (imo the friendliest bank in the world!) :)

[kilmeedyman]

Comments in blue below


I'm sorry, but I don't really understand that.

If a bank is only allowed to pass on their own ACTUAL costs & charges to customers, how would they ever make a profit?

Its part of the Act covering consumer protection. It is a fact. Banks can charge interest, and other fees, with the customer's consent. They are profitable for the banks. Charges are not allowed to be profitable, that's the law.


With all due respect, I'm NOT suggesting the banks are there to punish us so we learn.

I'm suggesting that if we make a mistake which costs us money, most of us will probably take steps to avoid it happening again.

In other words, the most effective way to learn is not through reading or being told something, but from our own mistakes

So why should a bank be allowed to profit from our mistake? It shouldn't which is why they are only allowed to recover their costs from the customer.


I must correct you here.

For a cheque to clear, it needs to go through the clearing house & back to the bank & branch it's drawn on in order for it to be paid.

How is it possible for that process to happen in a matter of seconds?

I don't know which bank you worked for Rob, but in Nat West they have the capability to key the sort code, account number and cheque number at the till when taking it in. (They called them truncated cheques). Now that same capability exists for cheques drawn on any UK bank. It would just require computer internetwork connection in the same way as for servicetills. Large amounts of paid in cheques could be scanned or keyed by back-office staff.

You may argue that the signature needs to be checked and that the words and figures should be the same and the date should be within 6 months etc. Well none of that is checked nowadays unless queried by the customer - as you well know. So no difference if its keyed/scanned at the receiving branch.

I met Mrs Kilmeedyman when working for Nat West Clearing (me for 2 years, she for 7 years) and having checked with her, she confirms that the capability for same day cheque clearance (cross-bank) has been in existence since the early 1980's but the banks make so much money from it, they have not bothered to introduce it. Oh and its the same for bank giro credits - there's no technical excuse for the delay in processing.

I'm sorry, but that's simply not the case.

It's a fact that millions of customers stay in credit & therefore get completely free banking for all the standard services on their personal accounts.....including myself & a number of people I know.

Who in their right mind would pay for a service when there are very easy (and obviously legal) ways of getting it for free?

Ahhh, but using someone elses money for overnight investment (as the banks do as part of the current account agreement) means that the customer is down by the amount of interest his money has earned - beause the bank keeps it. No longer is the account free. If the customer is overdrawn the bank cannot invest but charge interest and fees instead.

Why did you have no idea that you had reached your overdraft limit?

Because when you use a debit card, the transaction is checked with your bank and the money pre-allocated from your balance for when that transaction is completed. However £48.66 interest was taken on the Monday leaving my account short for when the payment was taken on Tuesday. You tell me when interest payments are taken from your account because in the Halifax it is a different day each month.


When people open accounts or apply for any borrowing, they are given leaflets giving full details for the charges.

True - it doesn't make those charges legal though.

If they don't bother to read them, and don't bother to keep a check on their account, how can they moan when it all goes pear shaped & they get charged?

I usually do.

[kilmeedyman]

When I'm accused of things I'm not guilty of, then no, I can't leave it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitaire Entertainments Ltd
You can't just leave it can you Rob?

When I'm accused of things I'm not guilty of, then no, I can't leave it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitaire Entertainments Ltd
You go on and on, trying to create problems with your posts.

What a ridiculous thing to say...of course I don't.



You two are bickering like a married couple. For goodness sake!

[rob1963]

Rob, kilmeedyman is correct when he says that banks make money even out of those who are always in credit and never make a mistake. I don't think he's suggesting that people are being charged for being in credit but rather that the banks use customers money to invest (often at high interest - high risk as was the case with Northern Rock and several other failed banks). The interest paid to these customers is nowhere near the interest the banks make.

Hiya Dazzy,

I fully understand what you & kilmeedy are saying.

Of course banks invest the money in customers accounts to make their own money, while paying paltry interest rates to their customers.

However, it all depends entirely on the turnover & balance on the account.

In other words, how much would they make from someone who pays in a few fairly small cheques each month, and draws the money out 2 days later?

Probably nothing...certainly a lot less that it costs them to maintain the account, clear the cheques paid in, provide cheque books, statements etc.

[discomobiledj]

Large amounts of paid in cheques could be scanned or keyed by back-office staff.

Back office staff at Natwest???? Not in my local branch, being served in less than 15 minutes would be nice!

The problem is, is that Natwest (and others) pay counter staff so little (at the last look it was £12,000 pa with Natwest).

[kilmeedyman]

Back office staff at Natwest???? Not in my local branch, being served in less than 15 minutes would be nice!

The problem is, is that Natwest (and others) pay counter staff so little (at the last look it was £12,000 pa with Natwest).

They're there, don't worry.

I'm not sure what the rate of pay has to do with this.
I will comment, though, that from seeing what some DJs charge they must feel that a Nat West Counter Staff's wages are too high! :bang:

[rob1963]

So why should a bank be allowed to profit from our mistake?

Because other businesses do the same, so why should banks be exempt?

For example, let's say you take a £50 booking fee now for a disco next year. If the client then cancels a couple of weeks later, what would you do if they insisted on getting their booking fee refunded...because they made the mistake of not reading your terms & conditions & were therefore unaware this was non-refundable?

Would you refund them? or would you profit from their mistake, like you're complaining the banks do?


I don't know which bank you worked for Rob, but in Nat West they have the capability to key the sort code, account number and cheque number at the till when taking it in.

I worked for Nat West.

In the early 2000's, they moved over to the Royal Bank of Scotland's counter computer & processing system. This initially involved passing every cheque paid in through the reader, which created an audit trail of the cheque details, and was handy in the case of queries.

However, this system was scrapped very quickly due to the much longer time taken to scan every single cheque paid in, rather than just processing a block total for the cheques.

The queues were bad enough BEFORE this!


You tell me when interest payments are taken from your account because in the Halifax it is a different day each month.

I have no idea when charging periods are or when they are taken from the account, because as you say the dates are different each month.

However, unless things have changed in the four years since I left, the bank provides a leaflet containing the charging periods & dates when the charges are taken from your account for the whole year.

There is help available. People only have to ask for it.


The problem is, is that Natwest (and others) pay counter staff so little (at the last look it was £12,000 pa with Natwest).

That was one of the reasons I left.

I now earn 50% more than I did in Nat West, but do less than a third of the hours.

Enough said!

[discomobiledj]

I'm not sure what the rate of pay has to do with this.

The fact that no one wants to work for them because the wages are so low, so they have no staff

[rob1963]

Wake up Kilmeedyman!

Ive been looking forward to you answering my first point in post #63.

:D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Back on topic, the cheque arrived this morning and I just had a very apologetic phone call to make sure it had arrived.

Let's hope it clears this time.

[Penfold42]

Back on topic, the cheque arrived this morning and I just had a very apologetic phone call to make sure it had arrived.

Let's hope it clears this time.

:clap: :thumbsup: :approve:

Good to hear!.:)

Beers on you then on Sunday.....:D

Out of intrest...will you be charging or not?

[rob1963]

Back on topic, the cheque arrived this morning and I just had a very apologetic phone call to make sure it had arrived.

I should think so too!

That's good to hear, Darren.


Let's hope it clears this time.

Fingers crossed.

So much for dealing with banks!

That's why I left...so I could deal with them a lot less!

:D :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Out of intrest...will you be charging or not?

If it clears then no. I really couldn't be doing with the extra hassle. :)

On principal I know I should and if they were my bank, then I probably would.

[Penfold42]

Fair comment..:) ..bigger fish too fry...so too speak....:)

I also have a poor memory....:o

:D :D :D

[rob1963]

I also have a poor memory

I don't remember you mentioning that!

3982

[DJMIKEYR]

Its when a large entertainment company (supposed to be) bounces cheques on you lads that you need to worry. I had a company bounce 2 on me in a week, then play me around with another payment which still to date I dont have.......Debt collector on case now and me not doing anymore work for them!!!