Interesting idea!

[Dillmiester]

I have just been listening to Jeremy Vine (yes Radio 2 im feeling old).
He was talking about dowloading music and how the music industrys profits have slumped through less people buying CD's.
He had an ex record label manager on the show who says a subscription should be introduced for people who download music or I suppose format shift. He stated that £2 a month would be fair and enough for the industry to continue to invest in new artists.
Sounds reasonable to me, where do i sign.......
Interestingly they didnt mention anything about Produb.

[rob1963]

I have just been listening to Jeremy Vine (yes Radio 2 im feeling old).
He was talking about dowloading music and how the music industrys profits have slumped through less people buying CD's.
He had an ex record label manager on the show who says a subscription should be introduced for people who download music or I suppose format shift. He stated that £2 a month would be fair and enough for the industry to continue to invest in new artists.
Sounds reasonable to me, where do i sign.......
Interestingly they didnt mention anything about Produb.

The reason they didn't mention ProDub is probably because they haven't heard of it! 3968

It's also all over the news today about a supposed big crackdown on illegal file sharing.

Time will tell.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have just been listening to Jeremy Vine (yes Radio 2 im feeling old).
He was talking about dowloading music and how the music industrys profits have slumped through less people buying CD's.

I'm sure I read somewhere recently, information to the contrary?


He had an ex record label manager on the show who says a subscription should be introduced for people who download music or I suppose format shift.

Downloading and format shifting is a different thing though and places like Napster already do a subscription service, so what's new?



He stated that £2 a month would be fair and enough for the industry to continue to invest in new artists.

Sounds like a figure he just made up off the top of his head without any regard for the royalty collecting agancies such as MCPS and PPL.



Interestingly they didnt mention anything about Produb.

Why would they - it's not for the general public and the ProDub is for format shifting or copying, not downloading. I don't see that it has anything to do with what they were talking about really.

[Dillmiester]

I'm sure I read somewhere recently, information to the contrary?



Downloading and format shifting is a different thing though and places like Napster already do a subscription service, so what's new?




Sounds like a figure he just made up off the top of his head without any regard for the royalty collecting agancies such as MCPS and PPL.




Why would they - it's not for the general public and the ProDub is for format shifting or copying, not downloading. I don't see that it has anything to do with what they were talking about really.

I think it that info would be included as an example of how professional DJ's are to be charged for format shifting when the public at this time are not. That is what they were talking about so it is related.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think it that info would be included as an example of how professional DJ's are to be charged for format shifting when the public at this time are not. That is what they were talking about so it is related.

As far as I'm aware they were talking about downloading which is not format shifting and you didn't mention they were talking about DJs.

[theoloyla]

The reason they didn't mention ProDub is probably because they haven't heard of it! 3968

It's also all over the news today about a supposed big crackdown on illegal file sharing.

Time will tell.
Whatever the reason for both licences is to make money for PRS and PPL.

[Dillmiester]

As far as I'm aware they were talking about downloading which is not format shifting and you didn't mention they were talking about DJs.

At the end of the program the guest stated that anyone who has an ipod for example filled up with music they have ripped has broken the copyright law or anyone who has transfered vinal to CD etc. However it wasnt exactly an in depth discussion into the subject. His answer to this problem was the £2 charge and by his own words was a rough calculation.

I hope this subject does come to more public attention (not just illegal file downloading) as a solution would be a good thing. I am a musician and think artists and bands should get some fair reward for their work to keep the industry moving forward. There is clearly little hope of stopping file downloaders, so some form of copyright licence could be an answer. Maybe something along the lines of "If you have recorded music subject to copyright you must hold a licence" regardless of where it came from and enabling you to do whatever you see fit with it aside from selling it.
Ok im not sure that would work but there must be a fair solution somewhere.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

At the end of the program the guest stated that anyone who has an ipod for example filled up with music they have ripped has broken the copyright law .

The BPI made a statement on that saying it is still not legal, but they wouldn't be pursuing anyone who ripped an original CD onto their own computer.

[JAMdisco]

I believe (and I maybe wrong here) that it is legal to download any music from peer-to-peer sites, just not legal to share it (i.e. upload or have it in your shared directory)

I know this doesn't make sense on a P2P network as that's the whole point of them, but I think this is how they've got through the loopholes in the past.

Please correct me if I'm wrong - I know you'd all love too :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I believe (and I maybe wrong here) that it is legal to download any music from peer-to-peer sites, just not legal to share it (i.e. upload or have it in your shared directory)

I know this doesn't make sense on a P2P network as that's the whole point of them, but I think this is how they've got through the loopholes in the past.

Please correct me if I'm wrong - I know you'd all love too :D

You're wrong. You are not paying royalties on it, so in effect are stealing it.

P2P networks aren't illegal if you are sharing non copyrighted music.

[JAMdisco]

Ok, fair enough. I'm sure I read it somewhere though, that it's ok for personal use. Can't remember where so can't say if it was a reputable source! :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ok, fair enough. I'm sure I read it somewhere though, that it's ok for personal use. Can't remember where so can't say if it was a reputable source! :confused:

No, and this is where people get confused.

File sharing copyrighted music is illegal, whether it is for personal use or commercial gain.

What you are thinking of (probably) is that the BPI made a statement saying that if people are ripping thier won personal CDs to their PC or Mp3 player, they won't be pursueing them. It still isn't legal though...

[BeerFunk]

Ok, fair enough. I'm sure I read it somewhere though, that it's ok for personal use. Can't remember where so can't say if it was a reputable source! :confused:I read the exact same thing, and I can't remember where either - maybe it was someone on this site!? :confused:

[501damian501]

their was sumthing which i did read a little while back, about being able to download music for personal useage.

[djgordyp]

The BPI made a statement on that saying it is still not legal, but they wouldn't be pursuing anyone who ripped an original CD onto their own computer.

They wouldn't persue anyone for two simple rasons.
a) the cost of, and work involved policing it. Would we see a case where the retailer took our names and addresses like they do when a new tv is sold.

b) the court system would never cope.

[501damian501]

its just another silly law to be honest with you, heres afew more you might think their not real but google and find out for your self:

A pregnant woman can legally relieve herself anywhere she wants, including in a policeman's helmet.

It is illegal to avoid telling the tax man anything you do not want him to know, but legal not to tell him information you do not mind him knowing

In the city of York it is legal to murder a Scotsman within the ancient city walls, but only if he is carrying a bow and arrow

crazy stuff, cheers damian

[Corabar Steve]

Been watching QI have we Damian?

[mr rusty]

more on this subject here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/29/who_wants_a_music_tax/page3.html)

Its worth reading the past articles linked at the bottom of this as well.

whatever the final outcome, I believe we will see something other than charges based on unit downloads. I think the Industry have realised it is more important to try and get £x from everybody per month/year than to worry too much about how much music they actually download. As long as the revenue stream is maximised, the quantity of downloads doesn't really matter. The problem is they are still trying to work out how to do it. Although this doesn't directly impact on the produb, the impact will be that it will be a unit quantity based license within a flat fee based market, and inevitably it will become redundant since anyone will be able to get any track they want, within their fee structure, by download with no format-shift involved.

[Tom]

The reason they didn't mention ProDub is probably because they haven't heard of it! 3968




Funny that.

I was round my other halfs, cousin house who is a professional singer, signed by warner brothers. I told him that this new pro dub licence has come out.

I gave him the run down of what It is and even he said it don't think it will work.

There are a lot of people who have mcps under there belt. So far its somthing like 87 people who have signed up to the produb (rough guess). So lets say everyone had paid the minimum of £250. Thats £21,750. How many pence would each artist get from this, not a lot I don't think.

I don't think the artists are really going to benefit from this at all. The only way the artists would see the extra money in there banks would be if every dj in the world had to pay for this, but there is no way this can ever happen.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry Tom, but you don't have the real facts and figures for now and the future. What you are talking about is just what has been sold so far in less than a month and you don't know which licence has been bought.

It shouldn't worry you anyway as you are using CDs.

It absolutely amazes me that people just say "it won't work" when they have no idea of what is actually involved.

[Tom]

Sorry Tom, but you don't have the real facts and figures for now and the future. What you are talking about is just what has been sold so far in less than a month and you don't know which licence has been bought.

It shouldn't worry you anyway as you are using CDs.

It absolutely amazes me that people just say "it won't work" when they have no idea of what is actually involved.


Your right on facts and figures for now and the future. I don't know what they are but would be interested on how the following months go by and how many more buy the licence.

If the price does come down then I may think about buying but for now cd's are working fine for me. :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If the price does come down then I may think about buying

How many tracks have you got then Tom?

What would you consider a reasonable price?

[Tom]

How many tracks have you got then Tom?

What would you consider a reasonable price?


I have 7,645 tracks. That includes all my heavy metal but as they wont ever get played and I will be taking that off the hard drive anyway. So as it stands I would have to pay £300 (I think), not including the current 25% discount.

I don't have a problem with paying for that. The reason I wont buy it yet is because I still believe that there are issues that need to be sorted out first. Once some of these have been sorted out then I may go for it, but for the time being I am happy using cd's.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have 7,645 tracks. That includes all my heavy metal but as they wont ever get played and I will be taking that off the hard drive anyway. So as it stands I would have to pay £300 (I think), not including the current 25% discount.

I don't have a problem with paying for that. The reason I wont buy it yet is because I still believe that there are issues that need to be sorted out first. Once some of these have been sorted out then I may go for it, but for the time being I am happy using cd's.

Fair points Tom and I agree, there are issues to be sorted still.