Generators

[Spirits High]

Morning all,

Quick one on "gennies" i'm doing an outdoor PA gig in october :eek: at Chatsworth house for Relay for life.

What I need to do is source/ hire my own power for the day.

Not being a expert on the subject I thought i'd throw it to the masses for a steer.

It'll only be running my rig so looking at something that will do a pair a PSR15A's and a 1501 sub.

if we have any SME (subject matter experts) I would be pleased with some help ;)

[djsteve10]

Morning all,

Quick one on "gennies" i'm doing an outdoor PA gig in october :eek: at Chatsworth house for Relay for life.

What I need to do is source/ hire my own power for the day.

Not being a expert on the subject I thought i'd throw it to the masses for a steer.

It'll only be running my rig so looking at something that will do a pair a PSR15A's and a 1501 sub.

if we have any SME (subject matter experts) I would be pleased with some help ;)


Are you getting paid for the day?
If so then the customer should of taken power into consideration and hired in the facilites for you unless you have agreed otherwise, I don't like to get into hiring in and out generators because it aint my job i am there to provide PA or music or lighting and if the customer wants entertainment or services like this they should provide the power.

[jamesh]

ahhhhh generators.... best avoided if possible... But in cases like this it's probably the only option. And if i have to run off a generator i'd prefer to be the one organising it and hiring it as at least you know it's up to the job and will be what you need and more importantly not wreck your equipment... Leaving it to the event organise opens you up to a whole mind field of potential issues

Not claiming to be an expert :P but my opinion is.....

Go for a minimum of 4KVA - which will be more than enough for what you plan on running which will mean less stress for the generator throughout the day. Also ensure that if it's an older generator that its REGULATED! Most modern generators in hire shops are but if it's not it is highly likely it could cause nasty problems to your kit.

What you will find is that most of the cheaper hire generators will be very noisy - so make sure you get enough cables to have it a fair distance away from your setup. Yes i know you can turn your PA up to be louder than the genny but it's more a case of if you are too near the generator it will do your head in with it's constant engine noise - not to mention your hearing.

Don't forget back up fuel! although that would depend on the amount of hours you tend to play for... Check with the hire company for maximum run time under 3/4 load as it will give you a rough idea if you can cover it on one tank of fuel.

Finally - Spend a little cash and get a UPS and go from the genny to the UPS and then the UPS to your kit. You can pick them up for around £30 but you'll find not only will it keep you running for a short while should the genny cut out BUT it will smooth out the power running into your kit and help towards killing off any power spikes.

These days the only generators i tend to hire are bigger "silent running" ones around 12KVA+ - the sort that you have to tow to your event... Yes they are more expensive but it's worth every penny - not only will it be very quiet and save your ears but it will be more than enough power, last longer on a tank of fuel and you generally get a nicer cleaner power feed from them.

[A1DL]

Hi Paul

I guess you have explored the possibility of taking a power feed from the main house or one of its outbuildings. In my experience, with a little research/hunting them out, many stately home venues have remote distribution boards with 32a/63a cees. This can involve running some long runs of HO7 to keep it safe and out of the public areas (120+metres of 6mm2 in the case of an event a couple of weeks ago), however will be cheaper and may be preferable to the genny option. In the above example, I was surprised at how low the voltage drop was over that distance (only -3v).

If you do decide to take the genny option, I can only reiterate how important it is to have a decent sized set with AVR, designed for entertainment use as opposed to a dirty old construction set, where the voltage is often up and down like a whore's drawers. The newer super silenced sets are very good and very accurate nowadays, I personally like to keep an eye on the voltage at the distro from time to time during an event, and have found the larger Stephill sets to be amongst the best, with even voltage across each leg and very little fluctuation, even under a heavy or poorly balanced load.

Hope this helps

Tony

[501damian501]

get intouch with your local hire company or genset, if my set was available i would of borrowed you that,but its currently up for repairs, 12kva big, PAH you aint lived, cheers damian

[Corabar Steve]

To borrow is to receive, to lend is to give. (both on a temporary basis with the object being lent or borrowed ending up with it's original owner after it's loan has ended)

Do you mean you would lend him it if it was available?


DID NOBODY ON HERE YOUNGER THAN 35 GO TO SCHOOL???

[jamesh]

get intouch with your local hire company or genset, if my set was available i would of borrowed you that,but its currently up for repairs, 12kva big, PAH you aint lived, cheers damian

ha ha ha i didn't say big - i said bigger... which i'm sure i'm right on :D as the last time i checked 12KVA was bigger than 4kva... ;)

But you are perfectly right there are bigger still - just not really needed to run a disco rig!


To borrow is to receive, to lend is to give.

Do you mean you would lend him it if it was available?


DID NOBODY ON HERE YOUNGER THAN 35 GO TO SCHOOL???

Na not me guvna... :P

[CRAZY K]

Theres plenty of good advice already here for you--

I worked with a small jenny recently supplied by organisers although the Disco before me had used it for 2 hours so I knew it wasnt going to blow my gear up:D :D :D

Heres a few ideas--

Make sure you keep petrol level topped up---mine ran out because the organisers were--disorganised--I WAS ON MY MOBILE ORDERING MORE PETROL--:eek: :eek: :eek:

I became the generator filler upper and operator--all in days work;)

If its noisy( BOUND TO BE) get it put as far away as possible from you--mind you at the level I play at its easily drowned out:D

Dont use the power immediately let the jenny settle down first after starting.

Use power surge boards, I use two in line so hopefully it will blow those before your equipment.

I agree with A1 Tony, try to use long leads, you would be surprised at how little power drop there is --assuming you dont need lighting of course.

Watch out for elf n safety though:eek:

CRAZY K

[501damian501]

petrol must of been small then, newer enclosed sets are very low in sound values, never try running commerial things of a smaller petrol open frame, it wont happen or lead into problems, make sure the set company supplys a 32amp or 64amp distribrution board with the set and somepower cables, 1.5mm wire is ok for short runs like 10meters or so, but for more larger runs i would recommend using 2.5mm which will lower the voltage drop, also make sure that you get the calculations of power needed from all parties involded, i.e power need from caters, dj, marquee lighting, toliets if needed, as you may know one basic 240volt supply, will pump out a "massive" 3kw, thats probley enough to power half a decent sized dj rig, weres a caters water boiler probley needs around 3kw its self, make sure the set you pick has a decent overhead for power, just incase, good planning always pays off when dealing with this sort of thing, i use to be a manager of a multi-million pound leisure business pre to starting my own, so i know most things, people might slate this but each to their own, and if in doubt get a electrican in.

p.s never fill a set up with diseal while running it will clog up the filters, then you be in SERIOUS problems, if you dont have a machanical mind.

calculate what your equipment needs, then go looking at small generators, personally all djs should have a basic mini suitcase generator in their sheds, just incase of this type of work comes along

[Corabar Steve]

That would've been a lot easier to read if instead of using it to highlight the word serious (where bold would have worked better) you had used capital letters at the start of the first word in each sentence.

Like wot they tort you in skool

[A1DL]

make sure the set company supplys a 32amp or 64amp distribrution board with the set and somepower cables, 1.5mm wire is ok for short runs like 10meters or so, but for more larger runs i would recommend using 2.5mm which will lower the voltage drop,

Damian - that's a dangerous assumption - "OK for short runs" for what exactly ? I know you (hopefully) mean for a 16a SPNE cee on an 16a MCB... but you haven't been specific and others may think it's OK on a larger cee/larger MCB, which could have dire consequences in an overload or fault condition.


as you may know one basic 240volt supply, will pump out a "massive" 3kw

no it doesn't. a supply doesn't "pump out" anything.

[501damian501]

ok sorry for not being specific next time :bang: :bang: i will just type an S.A several pages long in techincal words, just to boggle his mind even more ????? also with a page containing abbreviations :beer1: :Censored:

unless some one has a death wish, why would they want to mess with a big lean mean set, even starting one up and flicking the trips on, can boggle the inexperianced person

[ppentertainments]

As mentioned before go for bigger rather than smaller.I was given that advice when purchasing a generator. I wan looking at a 1.5kv and ended up with a 6kv. Did not realise at the time but best advice I have had. I run a full rig of this generator without any probs at all. Don't know what all the panic is about keeping topped up with petrol. A full tank will be ok for 2, 5 hour gigs and this is not a tow along generator neither. I never like to top up the petrol anyway in case any spills onto the engine or exhaust.

[501damian501]

can you please be more specific :D

I would of fought 6kva was more than enough to power your rig, probley enough to power marquee lighting aswell, cheers damian

[A1DL]

can you please be more specific :D

I would of fought 6kva was more than enough to power your rig, probley enough to power marquee lighting aswell, cheers damian

Let's leave the fighting aside and concentrate on the topic being discussed... a 6kva set is undersized for all but the smallest of events.

Two PAR56 trees alone need almost half of the current a 6kva set can provide.

[501damian501]

yes of course, thats why most people are moving over to led par's.


but i strongly sugguest you get an enclosed type of generator, my friend, you probley pick a decent silent one up for around £500 maybe afew 100quid more. cheers

[Excalibur]

I agree with amost everything posted on here, and would say Diesel is usually better than petrol ( Assuming as said before, it's not an ancient one with little or no regulation) and bigger is always better. As usual James, and particularly Tony ( A1) are spot on.

Damian, I've resisted saying this before, but I'm really struggling with your posts. The spelling and grammar annoy me immensely, but that I can live with. Your posts in this thread worry me, as any advice about generators needs to be impossible to misunderstand, as safety is involved. We all make humorous posts, and I'm more guilty than most on here, BUT there's a time and place for everything, and your flippant reply to a totally valid qualification from A1 which had important safety aspects illustrate this completely. Sorry, but there it is.

[ppentertainments]

Let's leave the fighting aside and concentrate on the topic being discussed... a 6kva set is undersized for all but the smallest of events.

Two PAR56 trees alone need almost half of the current a 6kva set can provide.

As mentioned before go for the max you can budget for, however with my 6kva one I can safely power a 1300w amp driving 4 speakers, mixer, cd, 2 Acme Boogie LEd, 2 Firebirds and an Impossibled. I have used this many times without any glitches at all. Mainly this is used at Firework displays but have also powered many outdoor events (inc. weddings) lasting 5 hours +

[501damian501]

spelling and grammer is the least of my worrys, and i dont know why i went onto the thing about my big diesel set, since am totally allways wrong i think i might just resign from this forum and dont bother, big tools come down and fix my 250kvaer and wire that beast up !!!

why would i need to put anything other than i did, of course the geezer new i was talking about little voltages, as i cant see their being any major ampage involded with his dj gear, non of the less i must be talking rubbish

[Excalibur]

spelling and grammer is the least of my worrys, and i dont know why i went onto the thing about my big diesel set, since am totally allways wrong i think i might just resign from this forum and dont bother, big tools come down and fix my 250kvaer and wire that beast up !!!

I rest my case.

[A1DL]

big tools come down and fix my 250kvaer and wire that beast up

which, when translated, means? :confused:

[501damian501]

oh you dont know about 3 phase wiring ???, maybe i should teach you

[Excalibur]

oh you dont know about 3 phase wiring ???, maybe i should teach you

Another shining example of what I was referring to earlier. There are plenty of us who know about 3 phase on here, as you must surely know.

[501damian501]

yeah, but am sure he was preferring i dont have aclue about anything, might bump into him on the road sumday lol

[A1DL]

oh you dont know about 3 phase wiring ???, maybe i should teach you

I assume this comment was aimed in my direction Damian, since your post was concurrent to mine, simply asking for a translation from ChavTktTork into the Queen's English.

In answer to your question regarding three phase, my knowledge of power systems, regulations and practices has, to date, been sufficient for my job, however is by no means fully comprehensive and there are many people out there with a far superior knowledge on the subject, than myself. Perhaps you are one of those people Damian, although with respect, your inability to articulate a basic literate post leads me to think I may struggle to learn from you, as there would be a language/understanding barrier.

[Excalibur]

I echo the views of A1 wholeheartedly.

[501damian501]

i wouldnt be able to teach you over a forum, its far easy to teach you face to face.

[Spirits High]

Jeeeze Guys,

Was asking about gennys and all sorts has erupted:eek:

I'll take the advice from the trusted sources and ignore the others ;)

The gig will run from 9am till just after 4 but inbetween the start and finish there won't be lot to do ;)

Relay for life Derby is our chosen charity and walk for life is part of that

And yes we do get paid for it but I don't charge them full rates I've lost a few family members with cancer including my Dad so it's something I chose to support ;)

Anyway I'll check out genny prices and let you know. Thanks for your help so far

[501damian501]

ok, hope you dont get ripped off, cheers damian

p.s you will need to find out how much power your system needs first ! also if your running a motor from it, you will need to know the starting power of the motor ? as a motor draws more power whiles starting then when in pull swing , but i dont think this will matter to you

[Danno13]

Come on guys.. let's not make this personal. If you have an issue with Damian take it up via PM.

[Danno13]

Testing.. testing.. are my posts showing up..

Yes they are. Can we please stay on topic!

[Excalibur]

Generators. I remember Penmare asking this before his Firm's Summer Ball. After the excellent advice he got on here I'd have assumed he'd have given Spirits a number for the people who supplied power for that. Deal with people you know? ;) :confused:

[Corabar Steve]

Right, I have deleted a number of posts in this thread for reasons that should be abundantly clear to those concerned. One member has been put in the sin bin over it & another is likely to end up in there if he's not careful.

2 Moderators have asked for this thread to be kept on topic & have been ignored. (see Danno13's posts for an example). I know the site owners will not tolerate this. Neither will I.

Abusive posts are against forum rules & will not be tolerated, neither will posts that are blatantly trying to pick an argument.

If anyone involved with the running of this site asks or tells you to do something, then take it as their word is law. Blatantly ignoring them will be taken as a breach in forum rules & the appropriate action will be taken (Sin Bin or Ban).

Any further off topic posts in this thread will be deleted without notice.

[Excalibur]

Let's leave the fighting aside and concentrate on the topic being discussed... a 6kva set is undersized for all but the smallest of events.

Two PAR56 trees alone need almost half of the current a 6kva set can provide.


As mentioned before go for the max you can budget for, however with my 6kva one I can safely power a 1300w amp driving 4 speakers, mixer, cd, 2 Acme Boogie LEd, 2 Firebirds and an Impossibled. I have used this many times without any glitches at all. Mainly this is used at Firework displays but have also powered many outdoor events (inc. weddings) lasting 5 hours +

There's actually no conflict here, as both the above posts are correct. The current draw required for the rig mentioned by PP Ents is no more than the rig I ran off a 2.2KVA in an emergency forced by a power cut. The genny wasn't really big enough, but it coped. Like I said, it was an emergency. 6KVA would run mine or pp's fine, since in the scheme of things it's a small rig and therefore power requirement( no offence :D ) If as Tony suggests, you're going to run loads of filament lights for a start then yes it's way too small. Unless there's a really huge disparity, it's better to run a small load on a big genny, rather than the other way round.

[soundtracker]

Its quite impressive that we have people on here that are experts in so many fields, I must admit that this is a side of things that I have no interest in, I'm more inclined to pass the buck to marquee companies etc and let them have all the worries. But all power to you.

[Excalibur]

Its quite impressive that we have people on here that are experts in so many fields, I must admit that this is a side of things that I have no interest in, I'm more inclined to pass the buck to marquee companies etc and let them have all the worries. But all power to you.

And I in turn know naff all about DMX, OTS AV, PC DJ, and a load of other acronyms! :( :( The great feature of this forum ( hopefully) is the ability to share information in a sensible, helpful and adult manner, thus avoiding costly pitfalls.

[mldiscos]

if you're gonna use a genny then i really do suggest hiring/buying/borrowing a power stabilsing unit because what you dont want is a power spike from the genny frying your gear, i have seen it done and it aint a pretty site, if you dont all you can hope is the fuse pops before your gear does.

[A1DL]

if you're gonna use a genny then i really do suggest hiring/buying/borrowing a power stabilsing unit because what you dont want is a power spike from the genny frying your gear, i have seen it done and it aint a pretty site, if you dont all you can hope is the fuse pops before your gear does.


Posts 3 & 4 of this thread stress the importance of using a set with AVR (automatic voltage regulation).

I assume that what you mean by a "power stabilising unit".

Tony