Quality and Performance of behringer amps

[501damian501]

Hello i have been looking at behringer europower amps and would like to know peoples views and the quality on these such amps, i know a certain member uses one and hope he will comment on the performance of his, cheers damian

[Danno13]

They're certainley reliable enough, but the quality is lacking compared to more expensive amps but thats to be expected. They're better than most other stuff at their price range, but I'd also look at the new QSC GX series and the Crown XLS or XTI range if you can afford a little bit more.

[Paul James Promotions]

look at the new QSC GX series.

Absolutely. Can't go wrong with 6 year warranty!

[501damian501]

i taken alook at it, and with that warranty it looks very attractive hehe

[Skins]

I own a pair of the EP2500 and they are great amps for the price.

Be wary of the spec rating though, but I have to say they really are great amps for the money:)

I think they were less than £190 each- cant go wrong!

Shaun

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I bought a Behringer mixer which was supposedly their version of the Pioneer DJM600. I didn't like it at all and ended up returning it and getting the Pioneer one instead. I thought the quality of sound wasn't that great and it also felt cheap, which at the end of the day....it was. I know people who use Behringer stuff and they are quite happy, I wasn't impressed. I'm not saying it was totally rubbish, for the price it's good enough. As far as amps go, I always stick with Crown personally.

[Vectis]

I run an EP1500 for the majority of gigs and am more than happy with the sound quality and output. At the time I bought it the low-end Crowns weren't around otherwise I might have struggled to justify the saving.

Had an odd problem whereby output from one channel was reduced sporadically despite lots of faultfinding with spare cables etc.. Had it replaced no-quibble and the new one has been a dream.

[wensleydale]

i'm not aq big fan of behringer- only owned an eq of theirs and it died mid gig after a few months- i appreciate its only one experience but this is the type of thing that does put me off stuff- i'd spend a little extra and get a crown

[nigelwright7557]

Absolutely. Can't go wrong with 6 year warranty!

A warranty isnt worth anything out on a gig with the amp dead.

[Jiggles]

A warranty isnt worth anything out on a gig with the amp dead.


They know that there amps will last that 6 years. (Odd one might brake down) They wouldn't they wouldn't give out that warrenty if they knew that they didn't last that long. So your pretty safe imo.

[wensleydale]

i'd rather have a 6 year warranty than a 1 year- it says something about the manufacturers confidence in their product

[nigelwright7557]

No one can guarantee a component will last for 6 years.

From my Uni days I remember seeing graphs of failure rates of electronic systems and they usually either fail when the equipment is nearly new or towards the end of their life. This doesnt take into account physical abuse.

[djsteve10]

I would go for QSC or Crown everytime, Sound quality is very important i find in this job so why spend £200 on an amp when you will be back in a few years to spend another £200 and it will carry on when you can buy a QSC, Crown Or Peavey and spend £300 - £500 and know if you look after it and treat it right you will have a amp for an awful long time.

[nigelwright7557]

I would go for QSC or Crown everytime, Sound quality is very important i find in this job so why spend £200 on an amp when you will be back in a few years to spend another £200 and it will carry on when you can buy a QSC, Crown Or Peavey and spend £300 - £500 and know if you look after it and treat it right you will have a amp for an awful long time.

I bought a Peavey mixer from a local dealer as shop soiled and paid £75.
Its been a good reliable mixer with plenty of different types of input and output sockets.

I wouldnt recommend second hand as the sliders are usually well worn.
You could obviously change them but this can get messy if they are soldered onto a pcb.

I also have a valve preamp/mixer I designed and built myself.
The valve gives a little bit of harmonic distortion and this lifts the treble a bit giving the sound more bite.

I prefer the valve preamp/mixer to the Peavey one.

[wensleydale]

No one can guarantee a component will last for 6 years.

From my Uni days I remember seeing graphs of failure rates of electronic systems and they usually either fail when the equipment is nearly new or towards the end of their life. This doesnt take into account physical abuse.

but they do.

[nigelwright7557]

They know that there amps will last that 6 years. (Odd one might brake down) They wouldn't they wouldn't give out that warrenty if they knew that they didn't last that long. So your pretty safe imo.

Not at all !

They add so much to the cost of each to pay for any possible breakdowns.

I have designed electronic equipment so I know how the game is played !

If your lucky they last otherwise your left at a gig with a duff amp.

Just coz you pay more doesnt mean the components are any better.
An IRFP240 MOSFET transistor is the same whether its in a cheap amp or top price amp.

[mr rusty]

An IRFP240 MOSFET transistor is the same whether its in a cheap amp or top price amp

and I'd take a bet that the new QSC GX range are made in China just like the Behringers. This is a skoda/audi arguement. Is the skoda a great car because it shares alot of running gear with audi, or are audi's not that great because they have skoda running gear. Its all marketing.

For the record we have an EP2500 and it works well and sounds good.

[Andy Westcott]

Quote Nigel:
"An IRFP240 MOSFET transistor is the same whether its in a cheap amp or top price amp."

True, of course. (And I know you know what you're talking about!)

But build quality comes into the equasion doesn't it?
Have the heatsink holes been de-burred, or are the burrs going to punch through the insulating washer after a time and cause a catastrophic failure?

Are the heatsinks adequate, have the output devices been properly mounted and is the fan a long-life design? Has the heat-sinking been over-engineered to allow for a certain amount of clogging-up over time?

What about power supplies?
Are the electrolytics mounted in a position subject to a lot of heat?
Are the rectifiers adequately rated, or will they run uncomfortably hot under heavy use?

How good is the quality of the flow soldering? Will some joints fail eventually under repeated thermal cycling?

I'd like to think that with a more expensive amp these points and many more would have been addressed, but there's no real way to know, other than talk to someone who is involved in the repair of such equipment and can point out the repeatedly dodgy builds he comes across.

[Paul James Promotions]

They add so much to the cost of each to pay for any possible breakdowns.



Have you actually seen the prices of the new amps i'm referring to? They are competitive with many budget amps.

[nigelwright7557]

Quote Nigel:
"An IRFP240 MOSFET transistor is the same whether its in a cheap amp or top price amp."

True, of course. (And I know you know what you're talking about!)

But build quality comes into the equasion doesn't it?
Have the heatsink holes been de-burred, or are the burrs going to punch through the insulating washer after a time and cause a catastrophic failure?

Are the heatsinks adequate, have the output devices been properly mounted and is the fan a long-life design? Has the heat-sinking been over-engineered to allow for a certain amount of clogging-up over time?

What about power supplies?
Are the electrolytics mounted in a position subject to a lot of heat?
Are the rectifiers adequately rated, or will they run uncomfortably hot under heavy use?

How good is the quality of the flow soldering? Will some joints fail eventually under repeated thermal cycling?

I'd like to think that with a more expensive amp these points and many more would have been addressed, but there's no real way to know, other than talk to someone who is involved in the repair of such equipment and can point out the repeatedly dodgy builds he comes across.

But most of these things cost nothing or next to nothing to rectify !

Deburring holes is absolutely vital or the burr will cut through the insualtor straight away.

Soldering these days is very reliable these days.

Who is to say whether an expensive amp is any better than a cheap one ?

The only way to find out is to strip it down and check it.
Then put it on test equipment to check its frequency response.
Put it on a full bore test for 5 hours to see if it survives.

This all applies to cheap and expensive amps.

Anyone can put a cheap amp in a fancy enclosure and charge a bit more.

[Danno13]

But would a company like Crown or QSC really risk their reputation by doing that?

[A1DL]

But would a company like Crown or QSC really risk their reputation by doing that?

Most probably not... which is why you see so many old Macrotechs going on and on and on, even when run in the worst of conditions, with no maintenance and no cleaning.

[One Vision]

This is just personal choice, but I now only go for amps that are made by companies that have been around a long time building amps to a high standard.
For the budget I had at the time I went for the Peavey PV amp, very well built but at the end of the day time will be the decider to whether they are built to last.
The PA system is probably the hardest working piece of kit we have and so many seem to opt for the cheaper option.

Why spend a fortune on high spec mixers, Denon head units etc. then play through a sub standard PA system were it actually matters the most?

I know a lad that uses an Allen and Heath mixer which isn't a cheepo but uses Miltec amps and soundlab speakers :eek:

[Andy Westcott]

I think the comment about reputation is key here;

Someone such as QSC daren't get a reputation for dodgy builds, as a bad reputation can take years to dissipate and could even ruin a company supplying professional equipment - this type of gear has to work first time, every time.

My next amps (if I can persuade myself to part with the cash) will be QSC - I've decided that much, and the choice is based on faith in accordance with the reputation argument, rather than specs on paper.

[CRAZY K]

A warranty isnt worth anything out on a gig with the amp dead.

Its worthwhile next day back at the Disco shop though:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[TonyB]

I agree with using QSC over Crown. Crown have blotted their copybook a bit with the XTi range which have had build quality and reliability problems. They seem to be trading on their past reputation for people to continue to buy their amps.

An independent test showed that the power output from the XTi1000 dropped to about 90w at 4 ohms/20hz http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13869426#post13869426

The Behringher EP2500 gave a much better result at a lower distortion rate http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10753638#post10753638

[Danno13]

The XTI sounds much better though, IMO (I own both an XTI1000 and an ep2500)

[nigelwright7557]

I agree with using QSC over Crown. Crown have blotted their copybook a bit with the XTi range which have had build quality and reliability problems. They seem to be trading on their past reputation for people to continue to buy their amps.

An independent test showed that the power output from the XTi1000 dropped to about 90w at 4 ohms/20hz http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13869426#post13869426

The Behringher EP2500 gave a much better result at a lower distortion rate http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10753638#post10753638

It could be they have a new designer working for them who isnt quite up to the job.

No company deliberately makes equipment that wont last long due to the cost of warranties.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I use Crown amps and I also have an old Peavey. Both makes are good and clear and powerful and have never let me down.

[Adam_F]

I know a lad that uses an Allen and Heath mixer which isn't a cheepo but uses Miltec amps and soundlab speakers :eek:

MilTec certainly is not a cheap or budget range. Their amplifiers are very good. Soundlab speakers on the other hand...... LoL


The XTI sounds much better though, IMO (I own both an XTI1000 and an ep2500)

:agree:

Crown XTI's sound far better, plus have more features too.

[Royalblue]

For what its worth I have an EP2500 and I'm thrilled to bits with it. So far, very reliable, and very good sound quality. I don't think you can go wrong at the price.

[paull]

Hi,

I have a Crown XTI 4000 a K2 and a EP 2500. The EP 2500 was a workhorse and did not break down in fact I had 2 and a 1500 and not one problem. The XTI had problems with dropping a channel due to a welding issue that is known to Crown as a manufacturing problem and may be the cause of the drops mentioned in the report above. This was fixed within a week.

Sound wise, the XTI is up with the K2 ( which are £1800 new)when going through my Mackies. It is only if I get it drive my JBL MRX 528 can you hear that it is not the same as the K2. There is however quite a difference that even customers have commented on between the EP 2500. Saying that I will not get rid of it as it is a very reliable back-up and for the price can not be faulted be me.

Paul