SRM450s Overheating - is it really a problem?

[Vectis]

Just done an unbelievable deal on a pair of mint SRM450s (v1) from a vocalist I work with occasionally (his spares :eek: ) and intend to use them as mains for smallish venues, or with a dB sub 15 for medium venues, in place of my Peavey Pro15s / large heavy amp case.

There's plenty of conflicting evidence around the web about overheating, some say it's a myth, others citing real examples, but mostly from bands/vocalists.

So what do we mobile jocks think of them?

Do I need to rush out and buy fan kits or can I put my faith in them for tomorrow's wedding? I've had them thrashing in the lounge for an hour this morning and they hardly got lukewarm.

:beer1:

[djdarren]

they are fantastic speakers mate depending on what version.
the older ones had much better speaker drivers in and sounded much better than the current version (however they still sound great)

the amps do seem to have a lack of cooling tho, running them at full volume (not clipping) for a few hours the amps do get very hot, no fan and just a heatsync is the cause.

i have known a few people using clip on desk fans on the back of the units just to help however never heard of anyone having a failed unit down to heat ether (however i dont believe it is good for them)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Out of the 7 guys who I use regularly, 6 use active Mackies and none of them have ever had a problem with overheating.

If you don't overdrive them, it won't be a problem.

The older ones did have a problem or two apparantly and they were built in Italy with RCF drivers, whereas the newer ones are built in China and don't have RCF drivers. I use RCF and used to use the 450s and there is not that much difference in sound to be honest.

The heatsinks do get hot, but then that is what they are there for.

[CRAZY K]

Just done an unbelievable deal on a pair of mint SRM450s (v1) from a vocalist I work with occasionally (his spares :eek: ) and intend to use them as mains for smallish venues, or with a dB sub 15 for medium venues, in place of my Peavey Pro15s / large heavy amp case.

There's plenty of conflicting evidence around the web about overheating, some say it's a myth, others citing real examples, but mostly from bands/vocalists.

So what do we mobile jocks think of them?

Do I need to rush out and buy fan kits or can I put my faith in them for tomorrow's wedding? I've had them thrashing in the lounge for an hour this morning and they hardly got lukewarm.

:beer1:

Martin, its not exactly benchtesting conditions in the comfort of your home,
but from what I hear you would have to be pushing the units hard all night to get overheated--certainly Bands seem pretty unaware of how loud they are as they try to oudo each other on sound levels :eek:

I did give some belonging to one of Dazs guys a 90 minute pasting with my voice recently and they seemed ok:D

I only found out last week the Peavey Pro 15s have a thermal cut out on the HF units--although I have been unable to blow them despite nearly 4 years of hammering including plenty of red leds.

I had a fault because a thin soldered wire connection cracked---no component failure or thermal cut out.

CRAZY K

[Shaun]

There's plenty of conflicting evidence around the web about overheating, some say it's a myth, others citing real examples, but mostly from bands/vocalists.

So what do we mobile jocks think of them?

Do I need to rush out and buy fan kits or can I put my faith in them for tomorrow's wedding? I've had them thrashing in the lounge for an hour this morning and they hardly got lukewarm.

:beer1:

Overheating isn't a myth (in my experience anyway). A few months after buying srm 450's I was wishing I'd bought something else.

I've recently bought cooling fans for them from a guy that makes them to order. Since attaching the fans I've never had a problem. They're now perfect.

Check the link below. Trust me, it'll be the best 35 quid you've spent in a while. You will however have to buy a couple of 12v transformers. They're cheap enough though.

http://www.geoffkingpromotions.co.uk/mackiesrm450coolingkits_219742.html

[Vectis]

Hmmmm.... There I was getting a warm feeling and then Shaun comes along :)

What sort of scenarios were yours tripping out in? Were you driving them hard, were they in hot rooms, tight corners etc.? Room/audience sizes??

Was hoping to run mine tomorrow for a wedding party, about 100ish folks in a spacious room near to a fire escape which can be opened slightly if it gets hot in there. Should I be taking the Peaveys in the van just in case?

[Shaun]

I think you'll be absolutely fine in the conditions you've mentioned. I have been driving them relatively hard, but nowhere near their potential. Most times it's been with crowds well in excess of 150 people. They've tripped out both in confined spaces, and large open stage alike.

I don't think you'll need to take the Peaveys as it's unlikely both will trip it a the same time. Whenever mine has tripped it's just a case of lowering the volume till the heatsink cools down.

[Penfold42]

I hope not as I will be getting mine soon. :D

[kilmeedyman]

I run mine with the rear gain control at '5 to 12' and it doesn;t seem to matter how much I crank them up through the mixer they cope.
I have never see or heard them clipping.
They have never overheated. They get warm, yes, but cooling fins are supposed to do that to dissipate the heat. If the fins don't get warm, that's when I would be worried as the amps could possibly overheat.

[spin mobile disco]

You can buy mains voltage fan units from maplin that with a bit of soldering could be attached to the mackie iec power in socket in line with mains input power. Then attach fan to cooling fins. Should work a dream.
I have worked alongside people who have mk1 mackies and only about half of them report heat problems.

[dmckaraoke]

Had mine now for about a year.Happened twice..

Two tripped one night at the same time aaahhh(was driving them way too much and was unable to see the clip light)

Second time tight corner one one tripped(driving too hard again or perhaps the tight corner)

Both times they have came back on with in about 1-2mins


Secret!!! Dont drive them too hard theres no need and watch the clip light.

[501damian501]

easy solution dont go active

[rob1963]

easy solution dont go active

Or go for the V2 Mackies which use digital amplifiers that produce very little heat, so no fans required & no overheating.

[CRAZY K]

Or go for the V2 Mackies which use digital amplifiers that produce very little heat, so no fans required & no overheating.

Has anyone actually used these and can confirm this is the case over many bookings?

They cost loadsa money:D

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

easy solution dont go active

Other amps don't get hot then?

[wensleydale]

Other amps don't get hot then?

but they do have fans.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

but they do have fans.

Not all do.

[Dragonfly]

one of my srm 450s has thermalled once .... in an upstairs function room with no outward ventillation , it was a school prom where half the year bought tickets and the other half all just turned up ..... seemed tight in the function room if you know what i mean? they were jumping up and down so hard the whole floor was like a trampoline (only gig ive ever been really nervous of the floor doing this such was the movement) and some little oik kep leaning over and pulling the master volume right up.

other than that ive never had a single problem , but then i never have really driven any speaker ive ever owned massively hard.

[wensleydale]

Not all do.

mine does

:p

[Dragonfly]

I run mine with the rear gain control at '5 to 12' and it doesn;t seem to matter how much I crank them up through the mixer they cope.
I have never see or heard them clipping.
They have never overheated. They get warm, yes, but cooling fins are supposed to do that to dissipate the heat. If the fins don't get warm, that's when I would be worried as the amps could possibly overheat.


exactky the same here ...... no problems to report.

[JAMdisco]

It was the heat problems that initially made me decide to go passive.

Mine only thermed-out once although they were close to a wall, and to be honest, I did drive them very hard, especially the bass frequencies.

They weren't so bad when I used to take the SWA1501 bin out, but they are just so d@mn heavy. :)

[Vectis]

Right, having had them running in the lounge for most of the afternoon (not full whack, obviously :D ) I'm going to trust them for the wedding tomorrow.

Well when I say "trust", I'm leaving the Peaveys at home but I do have a pair of 10" 2-way no-brand emergency speakers and an amp in the van :cool:

[djdarren]

Right, having had them running in the lounge for most of the afternoon (not full whack, obviously :D ) I'm going to trust them for the wedding tomorrow.

Well when I say "trust", I'm leaving the Peaveys at home but I do have a pair of 10" 2-way no-brand emergency speakers and an amp in the van :cool:

sure you will be fine mate... i have never known anyone to have them fail... clip and go into protect for a few moments but never fail.

just keep an eye on your level and all will be fine

[rob1963]

Or go for the V2 Mackies which use digital amplifiers that produce very little heat, so no fans required & no overheating.


Has anyone actually used these and can confirm this is the case over many bookings?

Crazy,

I've read the spec & can confirm that the V2 use digital amplifiers.

As I understand it, the main benefits of digital amplifiers are firstly the significant weight reduction (the SRM450V2 actives weigh 5kg LESS than my Mackie PASSIVES!) and secondly due to the way they work, digital amplifiers produce MUCH less heat than regular amps, making it extremely unlikely that any overheating would occur...regardless of the number of gigs they've been used at.

:)

[Excalibur]

Right, having had them running in the lounge for most of the afternoon (not full whack, obviously :D ) I'm going to trust them for the wedding tomorrow.

Well when I say "trust", I'm leaving the Peaveys at home but I do have a pair of 10" 2-way no-brand emergency speakers and an amp in the van :cool:

I'd take a loaf of bread, and some Bacon. That way you can pass round Toasted Bacon Sarnies, while you wait for the cabs to cool down. :D :D

Some folk swear they overheat and trip, others say they've never known it happen. I have seen their heatsinks very hot, which is where they remove the heat, but as to tripping, I've no idea. Sorry.

[Tom]

Crazy,

I've read the spec & can confirm that the V2 use digital amplifiers.

As I understand it, the main benefits of digital amplifiers are firstly the significant weight reduction (the SRM450V2 actives weigh 5kg LESS than my Mackie PASSIVES!) and secondly due to the way they work, digital amplifiers produce MUCH less heat than regular amps, making it extremely unlikely that any overheating would occur...regardless of the number of gigs they've been used at.

:)


Also Rob, The new v2 use neo magnet speakers which are lighter and perform a lot better,

[rob1963]

Also Rob, The new v2 use neo magnet speakers which are lighter and perform a lot better,

Even better!

:D

[kilmeedyman]

Martin, take them and enjoy them. I expect they'll be fine.

If you over drive them they would be so fuppin' loud and I can't imagine that's the way you work.

Just be ready to trim the mid-range on the eq. to keep the sound a bit more 'British'.

[CRAZY K]

Even better!

:D

But we still dont know anyone who has used them?

CRAZY K

[Jiggles]

But we still dont know anyone who has used them?

CRAZY K

Tom Uses them :D

[Tom]

But we still dont know anyone who has used them?

CRAZY K

I have heard the old one's and they did sound fantastic but after talking to the DJ he did point that they do get rather hot.


Tom Uses them :D

That's true but the v2 version. :)

[Jiggles]

That's true but the v2 version. :)

Crazy was referring to the V2s :)

[Tom]

Crazy was referring to the V2s :)


Ahh, well in that case then yeah. :)

[nigelwright7557]

There's plenty of conflicting evidence around the web about overheating, some say it's a myth, others citing real examples, but mostly from bands/vocalists.

:beer1:

Thats probably because different people thrash them harder than others.

If you go above the speakers rating then they will eventually over heat and fry the voice coil.

[pagan_flame]

I run mine at '12 O' Clock' all the time - never had a thermal-out yet. I kept a pair of passives and an amp in my van just in case - after a year, I've sold them now as I never used them, and replaced with a pair of Tapco Thump active 15"s as backup / reinforcement.

Heatsinks do get warm when they are worked hard - which means they are doing their job.

Excellent speakers, no plans to replace. :clap:

[nigelwright7557]

I run mine at '12 O' Clock' all the time - never had a thermal-out yet. I kept a pair of passives and an amp in my van just in case - after a year, I've sold them now as I never used them, and replaced with a pair of Tapco Thump active 15"s as backup / reinforcement.

Heatsinks do get warm when they are worked hard - which means they are doing their job.

Excellent speakers, no plans to replace. :clap:

I am a bit paranoid about heat in amps, so I have two fans and a huge heatsink in my home grown amps.

I always carry a spare too, otherwise sods law kicks in and one will fail !

Just finished my latest project a 650WRMS 18 inch Eminence sigma pro speaker and enclosure. Sounds good.

[kilmeedyman]

That highlights a common misconception that Pagan and I have addressed which is heatsinks should get warm/hot, otherwise they are not doing their job.

Its a simple case of thermal conductivity.

[501damian501]

simple, dont go active

[nigelwright7557]

That highlights a common misconception that Pagan and I have addressed which is heatsinks should get warm/hot, otherwise they are not doing their job.

Its a simple case of thermal conductivity.

Large heatsinks can be very expensive so manufacturers usually use the minimum heatsink they can get away with.

I wouldnt be worried at a warm heatsink unless it was seriously hot.
Transistors will start to die at around 150 degrees C so the heatsink can get pretty hot before damage occurrs.

The job of the heatsink and fans is to get the heat away quicker than it builds up. If you dont you get what they call thermal runaway and this will fry the output transistors.

[501damian501]

you having a drink tonight nigel ? lol

[nigelwright7557]

you having a drink tonight nigel ? lol

Yes I am on the cider. How did you guess ?

[501damian501]

you up so late lol, am on the whiskeys, double JD's with ice and coke, lovley, but bloody cold outside.

[Vectis]

Big cheesy smile :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

VERY happy with my purchase. Lukewarm only even after a hard half-hours grinding RnB :beer1:

[Excalibur]

Big cheesy smile :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

VERY happy with my purchase. Lukewarm only even after a hard half-hours grinding RnB :beer1:

No Bacon Sarnies then? :( :(

[Vectis]

Only when I got home :p

[OllieJames]

I've got the SRM450's v1s and they're great, have never over-heated. I do belive it's the v2's that have been having this issue.

[CRAZY K]

I've got the SRM450's v1s and they're great, have never over-heated. I do belive it's the v2's that have been having this issue.

I think its the other way round?

If not Robs talking spherical objects.

:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[JAMdisco]

Old V1's get hot (in my experience) usually around the 3-4 hour mark of very heavy bass usage.

When I could barely touch them, I wound back on the bass and after a few minutes they became 'bareable' to touch.
When we used them in the band we had small clip on fans that worked very well.

As I am a bit of a 'bass-head' I ditched the Mackies for passive speakers - now I have as much bass as I want and best of all - no overheating.

[pagan_flame]

Old V1's get hot (in my experience) usually around the 3-4 hour mark of very heavy bass usage.

When I could barely touch them, I wound back on the bass and after a few minutes they became 'bareable' to touch.
When we used them in the band we had small clip on fans that worked very well.

As I am a bit of a 'bass-head' I ditched the Mackies for passive speakers - now I have as much bass as I want and best of all - no overheating.

I have an active sub and the 'low cut' button pushed in on the SRM's. Now I have as much bass as I want and best of all - no overheating. :D ;)

Enjoy lugging those amps AND speakers in and out of the venue, won't you?

[JAMdisco]

I have an active sub and the 'low cut' button pushed in on the SRM's. Now I have as much bass as I want and best of all - no overheating. :D ;)

Enjoy lugging those amps AND speakers in and out of the venue, won't you?

I also used to have the 'low cut' button pushed in but they still got very very hot (in fact this was the case when one of them thermed out.

As for lugging speakers and amps - it's a lot easier than carrying that d@mn heavy active sub (SWA1501) - unless it's the fact that I regularly visit the gym these days. :p :D

[pagan_flame]

As for lugging speakers and amps - it's a lot easier than carrying that d@mn heavy active sub (SWA1501) - unless it's the fact that I regularly visit the gym these days. :p :D

I have the dB Tech Sub 15 - 38kg. Before this, I had 2 Peavey 15"s (38 kg each) and the power amp to go with them (25kg).