Using a bands PA

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

This scenario has just come up on an email. I quoted for a wedding next year and the lady came back to me and said the band are quite happy with me plugging into their PA system, so how much would the quote change?

Would yours change or stay the same, and why?

[Vectis]

I wouldn't charge less for the following reasons:

1. I don't do PA hire, so the kit wouldn't be "working" elsewhere
2. I wouldn't be 100% happy with the audio until I'd checked and EQ'd it, so the gear would be in the van anyway just in case
3. My quotes are based on x+(n*y) where x=(costs + required profit margin), n=the number of work hours involved and y=the hourly rate for being there. n and y wouldn't change (in fact they might increase) and the difference in x for depreciation on the audio kit would be so difficult to calculate it'd cost more to do the maths than would be saved by doing it.


Incidentally, I recently had a "no lighting" quote request because the B&G are having a specialist lighting company do the whole marquee, band and disco. Same rules applied. Don't think I got the job :D

Maybe the lesson is to give them a token amount, say £10 or £20 to secure the work.

[Javlingames]

I dont think you should knock anything off. Do you know the Band?

[The_Blue_Dragon]

To tell the truth I wouldnt feel happy plugging my equipment into anyone elses equipment unless I knew them. But If I did I wouldnt change my price as I think of it as its me they are paying for, not the equpiment

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I dont think you should knock anything off. Do you know the Band?

No, though I have been given a list of their PA, which is decent quality.

[CRAZY K]

This scenario has just come up on an email. I quoted for a wedding next year and the lady came back to me and said the band are quite happy with me plugging into their PA system, so how much would the quote change?

Would yours change or stay the same, and why?

Our time is charged for an appearance and possibly increased if the event is longer than our standard 5 hours or anti social hours.

Its what comes out the speakers thats counts--i.e. your choice of appropriate music played at the correct volume and time together with whatever the DJ brings to the party by way of entertainment value.

I dont see using the Bands PA as a reason to reduce your price.

Your still there working the same hours, playing the same music and you COULD have done a booking down the road for full price--so why give a discount?

We never do.

CRAZY K

[ppentertainments]

I have done this in the past and have never reduced my price. It is the same at a few venues I do where everything is installed and just connect my mixer etc up to there amp and speakers. Similarly I have had bands / singers using my PA as it was easier and I never charged extra - I know them well though !

I must say, I wish more bands were co-operative in this way. In my experience the band takes up most the room for there equipment and you are shoved in a corner. Letting you use their speakers will give you more room.

[djsteve10]

Well I wouldn't charge no less that what I was charging before, Like Daz has the spec of the system I would still be interested to make sure I have the right levels during the sound check and if not I would go get my Pa out of the van. There is no use using a system that you don't like the sound of.

[rob1963]

Surely if someone quotes all people differently, largely dependant on the time & amount of work involved, then this scenario would result in a reduction of the time & work involved, so common sense suggests that would also mean a reduction in price...unless I'm missing something, which is highly possible!

[Ace DJ]

I still charge the same. When you do this full time as I do you still have to earn a set amount of money every week.
Even when doing big cororate events where they have hired in a 6k rig I have been told to plug into the system to save on space. Nobody has ever asked for a reduction.
Your gear still has to earn money for you whether you use it or not.
Ace

[Javlingames]

The reason I asked if you knew the band was because its slightly unusual for a band to allow a dj who they dont know to use their pa at no extra cost.

[Steve the DJ]

I wonder if the engineer fitting my new boiler would give me a discount if he used my spanner instead of his own? :eek:

No discount from me either, my fee is based on booking me, I just happen to have my own tools if required.

[ppentertainments]

Surely if someone quotes all people differently, largely dependant on the time & amount of work involved, then this scenario would result in a reduction of the time & work involved, so common sense suggests that would also mean a reduction in price...unless I'm missing something, which is highly possible!

I can see where your coming from, Rob, and you are correct if viewing through the 'customers eyes'. However if you took a booking and the client says 'i will supply the cd's, microphone, etc' would you discount ??

[Dragonfly]

stay the same , as i'd still want to take my own and have it set up ready to go incase of emergency , and ive only ever done this once ......for about 4 tracks as it sounded so dreadful ....... the mackies were used after all.

[CRAZY K]

I can see where your coming from, Rob, and you are correct if viewing through the 'customers eyes'. However if you took a booking and the client says 'i will supply the cd's, microphone, etc' would you discount ??

If Rob did that every week he wouldnt make any money:eek:

A problem here is the Customers perception of what they are getting for their money, there is a danger that they may think a large part of the charge is for supplying and setting up equipment---whereas in the case of Daz and many others its for their TALENT TO ENTERTAIN.

Anyone with no talent can buy a set of Disco equipment--I have worked with plenty of those;)

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

I can see where your coming from, Rob, and you are correct if viewing through the 'customers eyes'. However if you took a booking and the client says 'i will supply the cd's, microphone, etc' would you discount ??

No...because I have fixed prices for my discos, rather than quoting differently based on distance, hours etc.

I charge the same for a 5 hour disco on the first floor 40 miles away with a pre-event visit as it is for a 2 hour disco on the ground floor 2 minutes up the road with no pre-event visit.

Therefore, whether or not I use my own gear would make no difference, although I'd be VERY reluctant to use anyone elses gear.

[theoloyla]

I have on occasions used a band's or in house p.a. but dont generally give a reduction for it. As others have said it is my time they are paying for. If I am asked I will give a small token reduction like Vectisvibe suggests.

[Ace DJ]

Off topic slightly. I have quoted for a job for 2009. They have emailed back for a reduction as the event is starting 30 minutes later.
5.30 - 11.45. now 6.00 - 11.45
I have told them it is the same price.
Ace

[rob1963]

Off topic slightly. I have quoted for a job for 2009. They have emailed back for a reduction as the event is starting 30 minutes later.
5.30 - 11.45. now 6.00 - 11.45
I have told them it is the same price.
Ace

I agree.

If I quoted by time, a 30 minute reduction wouldn't be enough for the price to change.

[Creature]

i do several gigs thruout the year using either band PA's or PA provided by the bookee.

i normally knock £40.00 off as

1. Im not using my amps or speakers - so no ware n tear

2. I can go in the car instead of the van redusing my fuel bill by some 50%

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Darren, I would charge exactly the same as they are paying for your time.

[CRAZY K]

Darren, I would charge exactly the same as they are paying for your time.

Absolutely right--I wonder if the customer will see it like that?

We get loads phoning up here expecting a massive discount because they have their own rubbish equipment---in fact I have just done one where I refused to give a discount so they still booked it---then admitted their equipment was ropey and could we bring our own :D :D :D

I understand that Dazs situation is different--but its the same
principle.

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I had already answered this morning before I started the thread and it seems we mostly agree on this one. My answer was:

"I would prefer not to plug into the bands PA as there can sometimes be sound and quality issues. Having said that, the equipment being used for this is of suitable quality, but would not change the quotation. You are paying for our time, experience and expertise, so whether we plug into someone elses gear doesn't really make any difference."

[theoloyla]

Sometimes it is a question of stage space and I can understand the logic in that - but I still dont offer a discount.

[wensleydale]

I would offer a small discount if it was a dealbreaker, but only about £10-20 given that I believe that is representative of the amount of time/effort and wear and tear on the gear that it reflects.

No PA and no lights is a little different and essentially becomes a walk in job, but I would still be wary about the gear.

[DJ INDIE]

I wouldnt offer a reduction. I do lots of gigs DJing and playing with my band at the same venue on the same night, and i STILL take my own PA as well as my share of the bands. It can be far too much hassle mixing with a band if you dont know them regardless of kit etc. How many channels will they have spare? are they using a built in PA EQ? Will you be able to change it? are they using a high level 'backline' or pushing most of the volume through the front? Can you alter the volume through the PA if needed? Is the PA set up for a heavy band or a jingly jangly 60s type, ie bass cabs, tops, crossovers etc. What happens if the PA breaks when you are playing? Will you both have time to set up?.....and not wishing to tempt fate what happens if theyre late or worse dont turn up?

For the amount youre saving in not taking your own gear, you can easily spend sorting trivial questions like the above. In a strange way its probably easier taking your own gear.

Using in-house PA would be a different situation, and one I wouldnt have a problem with, for that I would offer a small deduction..

[soundmaster mobile disco]

If i was asked would there be a reduction in your price for useing the bands pa i would say no.Its me that they are paying for and not really the pa.

I have plugged my equipment into a bands pa system once before but that was only to save room on the stage.The band offered and did not ask for any extra money for doing so.


I had already answered this morning before I started the thread and it seems we mostly agree on this one. My answer was:

"I would prefer not to plug into the bands PA as there can sometimes be sound and quality issues. Having said that, the equipment being used for this is of suitable quality, but would not change the quotation. You are paying for our time, experience and expertise, so whether we plug into someone elses gear doesn't really make any difference."


Did you get the booking then Darren?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Did you get the booking then Darren?

I only answered this morning, but I would be surprised if they come back to me. I get the impression that anyone asking a question like that is looking to save even the smallest amounts and would go with the first company that offers them £50 off.

[wensleydale]

I only answered this morning, but I would be surprised if they come back to me. I get the impression that anyone asking a question like that is looking to save even the smallest amounts and would go with the first company that offers them £50 off.

had you quoted before they asked about the discount?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

had you quoted before they asked about the discount?

Yes. The actual phrase they used was "Can you advise how this may change the quote you provided below"

[DazzyD]

I would only offer a discount to "lubricate" the deal. As a salesman in a previous life, I know how important deal-clinchers can be but I also know how to recognise when they are needed and when they are not. My prices are built so there is a little room for negotiation so it would be the same as any other booking really.

As with any other enquiry, I would push our strengths and make the client aware of how good a deal we are at our regular prices. Only as a very last resort would I offer a financial discount.

From a personal point of view, though, I would be very reluctant to use anyones gear other my own. My own rigs are finely tuned to achieve the sound that I want to hear and I don't think I could get this with a few minutes on someone elses gear. But I can see the practical issues with regards to space so I suppose you just have to find the right balance.

[Kernow]

I agree.

If I quoted by time, a 30 minute reduction wouldn't be enough for the price to change.

But a 30 minute extension would be chargeable ????? Hmmmmmmm :confused:


In the past 12 months I have used a bands PA & Decks (!) and a Hotel's install. On both occasions all I supplied was myself & Cd's.

My fee in both cases was exactly the same as if I had used all my own kit.

[leighinstoke]

But will the band not be packing away and you be expected to play late? How do you get around that?

[The_Blue_Dragon]

But a 30 minute extension would be chargeable ????? Hmmmmmmm :confused:


In the past 12 months I have used a bands PA & Decks (!) and a Hotel's install. On both occasions all I supplied was myself & Cd's.

My fee in both cases was exactly the same as if I had used all my own kit.



No, if you are asking to do 30min less thats at the normal rate, most people if are asked to do more hours charge it as Extra Time or Over Time (what ever you want to call it) so charge more. If that makes sense

[nigelwright7557]

Your still there working the same hours, playing the same music and you COULD have done a booking down the road for full price--so why give a discount?

We never do.

CRAZY K

Not having to load the vehicle up with amps and speakers is like less work. Also not having to cart in/out of the gig speakers and amps.
I would go knock off a few quid for that, maybe 10%.

However, I would not be so sure about plugging my gear into someone elses perhaps possibly on a different ring main. It might cause problems with hum.
If i really had to do it then it could be difficult powering up the different sets seperately. This can cause latch up in electronic systems. i.e. if I plug in my Cd player in to my mixer with both powered on it sometimes crashes the cd player.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But will the band not be packing away and you be expected to play late? How do you get around that?

No, this band are aware of the situation are timings and are happy to 'lend' their PA to the DJ until he has finished.

[nigelwright7557]

Is the bands PA stereo ?

A disco is usually stereo and a band is usually mono.

It will sound pretty odd if you dont have a stereo to mono converter.

[The_Blue_Dragon]

Not always, Ive done a disco in a bar where due to the shape of the room I used mono so the sound was clear and everyone heard the same

[Danno13]

I've never heard a band play in mono.. it would sound dreadful, as they wouldn't be able to "place" the singers and instruments so would all just be a mush of sound coming from one place.

And yes.. I know that technically thats still essentially mono, but they'd still have the facility to output a stereo source from a DJ setup.

[nigelwright7557]

I've never heard a band play in mono.. it would sound dreadful, as they wouldn't be able to "place" the singers and instruments so would all just be a mush of sound coming from one place.

And yes.. I know that technically thats still essentially mono, but they'd still have the facility to output a stereo source from a DJ setup.

You would have to go into two channels in the mixer to mix the stereo channels together.

[A1DL]

However, I would not be so sure about plugging my gear into someone elses perhaps possibly on a different ring main. It might cause problems with hum.


Can you explain the physics on that thinking, Nigel? I don't understand why connecting playback equipment to a different circuit to that on which the FOH amps are connected will increase the risk of electromagnetic induced hum.

If the oscilliation emanates from a ground loop, at the end of the day ground is ground and all circuits phases will share a common equipotential zone.

In fact, I understood connecting to a different circuit good practice to REDUCE the liklihood of hum, to avoid shared impedance oscillation caused by heavy draw (eg dimmer rack) and light draw (eg playback rack) loads on the same circuit.

[nigelwright7557]

Can you explain the physics on that thinking, Nigel? I don't understand why connecting playback equipment to a different circuit to that on which the FOH amps are connected will increase the risk of electromagnetic induced hum.

If the oscilliation emanates from a ground loop, at the end of the day ground is ground and all circuits phases will share a common equipotential zone.

In fact, I understood connecting to a different circuit good practice to REDUCE the liklihood of hum, to avoid shared impedance oscillation caused by heavy draw (eg dimmer rack) and light draw (eg playback rack) loads on the same circuit.

Instead of the earths being linked (short length) locally they will be linked back at the distribution box meaning the earths will be much longer and possibly even at different potentials. If there is anything on the mains that has any earth leakage current the problem will be much worse.

Some equipment even connects the neutral to the earth so any decent current taken will raise the potential of the earth line too.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:Sleeping: :D

[Tom]

I think this forum needs an advanced section where talk like this can take place. lol.


If it was me, I would see what gear they have on the day. If they can setup there own equipment and make it sound good and you are pleased with it, then use there PA system. If you are not keen on it then use your own PA system. :)

[rob1963]

If I quoted by time, a 30 minute reduction wouldn't be enough for the price to change.


But a 30 minute extension would be chargeable ????? Hmmmmmmm :confused:

Yes...because a 30 minute extension would probably involve finishing at 12.30am rather than midnight, so you're into the unsociable/late hours scenario.

As I've already said, this wouldnt affect me anyway, as I have set prices for all discos up to 5 hours.

Therefore, I'd charge the same for a 3 hour disco from 7pm until 10pm as I would for a 5 hour disco from 7pm until midnight.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If it was me, I would see what gear they have on the day. If they can setup there own equipment and make it sound good and you are pleased with it, then use there PA system. If you are not keen on it then use your own PA system. :)

The whole point of offering the bands PA is so that you can sort this out in advance and help reduce the room taken up and time taken up by setting another set of kit up, so that wouldn't really be an option.


Yes...because a 30 minute extension would probably involve finishing at 12.30am rather than midnight, so you're into the unsociable/late hours scenario.


All of the hours we work are unsociable surely?

[rob1963]

Yes...because a 30 minute extension would probably involve finishing at 12.30am rather than midnight, so you're into the unsociable/late hours scenario.


All of the hours we work are unsociable surely?

Agreed, but midnight often seems to be the cut-off point, with all time after then charged at a higher rate.

[partytimediscos]

I often get bookings through an Agent who specialises in weddings and frequently with large bands, as stated elsewhere the best policy is to still take your equipment with you in case of a F.U.B.A.R. by the band. So no discount.

On a slight tangent i must say it really annoys me when bands take up most of the stage area and the D.J. who usually has to start and finish the gig as well as act as compere for the evening is stuck ito an area the size of a postage stamp. We are just as important and in most cases have more people on the dancefloor than them.

I could list numerous examples as probably can most guys on here who have been around for a couple of years.

The other one that gets to me are bands who dont give you a playlist then moan when you play something they usually do.

[CRAZY K]

All of the hours we work are unsociable surely?

Up to midnight is ok--after that the kit is heavier and more difficult to take down and carry plus the hangover in the morning is worse.

After midnight is just MORE unsociable :D :D :D

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

Up to midnight is ok--after that the kit is heavier and more difficult to take down and carry plus the hangover in the morning is worse.

After midnight is just MORE unsociable :D :D :D

CRAZY K

:thumbsup:

[Dillmiester]

I would share a bands pa if they had equipment of a reasonable standard however I would need to know them and meet them first to assure myself that on the night it would be compatible and they were of a reasonable attitude.
I would also insist on a good hours sound check as well.
As for a discount I would say yes but it would only be a token one of £20 as thats what I considor is worth my back not having to lump the extra equipment around. I fully understand people not giving a discount if their business is full time and dependant on a certain profit.

[theoloyla]

I would share a bands pa if they had equipment of a reasonable standard however I would need to know them and meet them first to assure myself that on the night it would be compatible and they were of a reasonable attitude.
I would also insist on a good hours sound check as well.


An hour!:eek: Youre having a laugh now...arent you?:D :confused:

[Dillmiester]

An hour!:eek: Youre having a laugh now...arent you?:D :confused:

Having seen many senarios where people have attempted to hook up to unknown equipment in unknown rooms i would insist in having time to get the sound as good as i can.
I hate bad sound in any form so that would be one of my prioritys.
Ok so expecting to get a band to go away for an hour is possibly a bit much but whats the alternative, you begin with an awful sound and the guests move away until you finally get it right.

[theoloyla]

Certainly I would want to do a sound check but if I couldnt get it to sound right after 10 minutes I would be very surprised or go and fetch my own kit in.

[Dillmiester]

Maybe this is how i generally avoid failure by strategic planning.

Consider this;

Option 1
At the planning stage you ask for a sound check when band and disco is set up, this would be after the band have finished doing their check
Result = You would be lucky to get 5 mins after the band get their act together.

Option 2
At the planning stage you ask for a 30 mins sound check.
Result = You may be lucky and get 10 mins

Option 3
At the planning stage you ask for an hours sound check.
Result = You may actually get 20 – 30 mins.

Plan for failure and everyone else being muppets, thats what i say!

[theoloyla]

No not my style. I call a spade a spade, say what I want and try not to exaggerate or bull****.

[Dillmiester]

No not my style. I call a spade a spade, say what I want and try not to exaggerate or bull****.

fair enough