Non refundable booking fees

[CRAZY K]

Today reminded me what a good idea these are.

I was cancelled today for a Wedding just before Xmas which I am unlikely to replace with a booking of similar quality or price.

I have little chance of making up my loss so the fee will come in handy to offset that disappointment.

As it happens it was a very long journey and the people were very difficult to deal with---unlike my usual customers---so im not too worried.

Thank you whoever introduced me to these on here and everyone else who is not doing so I suggest you use them---now!

CRAZY K

[JAMdisco]

I specify NRBF too but luckily have never had a cancellation. I have had a couple postponed or re-arranged, one even offered to pay another £50. I said no, as I specify, the Booking Fee can be used against a re-arranged date if necessary (providing I'm free of course).

[soundtracker]

Today reminded me what a good idea these are.

I was cancelled today for a Wedding just before Xmas which I am unlikely to replace with a booking of similar quality or price.

I have little chance of making up my loss so the fee will come in handy to offset that disappointment.

As it happens it was a very long journey and the people were very difficult to deal with---unlike my usual customers---so im not too worried.

Thank you whoever introduced me to these on here and everyone else who is not doing so I suggest you use them---now!

CRAZY K

Funnily enough, I've just had a cancellation today, booked back in may, for next April 10th wedding anniversary, now not going ahead! Didn't like to ask why, but gives me plenty of time to re-fill the date! A lot to be said for non-refundable booking fees!

[Steve the DJ]

I ask for a non refundable advance payment as well (currently £100).

I wondered if any of you do (or would), assuming you were able to rebook the cancelled date with another event paying a similar amount, consider refunding some or all of the deposit/booking fee/advance payment to the client who cancelled as a gesture of goodwill?

[theoloyla]

They cover the cost and time of issuing contracts etc etc.

[Excalibur]

Today
As it happens it was a very long journey and the people were very difficult to deal with---unlike my usual customers---so im not too worried.
CRAZY K

You're obviously in need of a full course at the Excalibur School of Customer Relations, and Charm. ;) :D :D







Which I'll swap you for one from the Crazy K School of Business Costing, and Realistic Pricing. :D :D :D

[DJWilson]

The only time i would efund the booking fee/depost is if i fail to rpovide my service (if i cant make it (never so far) ill ask rob or my friend of the family barry to cover)

[theoloyla]

I ask for a non refundable advance payment as well (currently £100).

I wondered if any of you do (or would), assuming you were able to rebook the cancelled date with another event paying a similar amount, consider refunding some or all of the deposit/booking fee/advance payment to the client who cancelled as a gesture of goodwill?

The deposit I charge is smaller and no I dont offer a refund. If I was charging as much as you I might consider it.

[rob1963]

Funnily enough, I also had a cancellation a couple of days ago for a wedding next April, as the couple have split up! At the end of the email, she asked if she could have her deposit back. No prizes for guessing my answer!

I only charge a deposit of £50, but this is pre-printed onto my booking forms, so I won't be able to increase it to £75 or £100 (haven't yet decided which) until I've used up all the current forms.

I do have a problem with the phrase "booking fee" though, as it always makes me think of the EXTRA charge you pay when phoning up to book show or concert tickets & paying with your credit card.

Also, whenever customers ask me about the up front payment, they always refer to it as a deposit...so it makes sense for me to refer to it the same way on my website & in all my paperwork, as this avoids any confusion.

[One Vision]

I agree there Rob FEE sounds like additional, bit like you pay an additional fee to 100% guarantee ill turn up

[Corabar Steve]

Dosen't matter what it's called as long as you make it clear it is non refundable & part of the overall total.

This information is from a contract lawyer so can we have the end of this tiresome debate about what to call your deposit now please.:bang:

[Steve the DJ]

There are problems with all of the words used to be honest and whilst I have stuck with "advance payment" recently I will be returning to using the term "deposit" very soon.

At the end of the day it is the word that a client understands the most and as long as I am clear about the implications of a cancellation on the deposit then I am happy.

I am however increasingly uneasy about retaining money if I rebook a cancelled date at a similar fee.

[rob1963]

I wondered if any of you do (or would), assuming you were able to rebook the cancelled date with another event paying a similar amount, consider refunding some or all of the deposit/booking fee/advance payment to the client who cancelled as a gesture of goodwill?

Hi FDDJ,

In a word, No....I'd NEVER refund a deposit under any circumstances.

However, there's a good reason for this. Although my deposit is non-refundable, my t&c state that in the event of a cancellation it will be held against any future booking...which I think is very fair.

Therefore, they can avoid losing their deposit simply by making another booking at a later date. This also helps ME, as it encourages them to keep my details & book ME next time they need a disco...so the customer wins & so do I.

[ppentertainments]

I had a cancellation a couple of months back for a 70th birthday next February. The lady, who has been to a few of my discos, has died. Call me soft or whatever, but I did give a refund.

[Vectis]

Hi FDDJ,

In a word, No....I'd NEVER refund a deposit under any circumstances.

However, there's a good reason for this. Although my deposit is non-refundable, my t&c state that in the event of a cancellation it will be held against any future booking...which I think is very fair.

Therefore, they can avoid losing their deposit simply by making another booking at a later date. This also helps ME, as it encourages them to keep my details & book ME next time they need a disco...so the customer wins & so do I.


So, hypothetical situation.

You're booked for a 40th birthday party which is cancelled for no good refundable reason, and you retain the deposit.

Six months later, the original hirer rings you to book for their daughter's 18th.

Is the deposit carried over?

If not, why not (other than not doing 18ths)?

What about if they were booking for their FRIEND's 40th party?

I would honour it in both cases.

[CRAZY K]

There are problems with all of the words used to be honest and whilst I have stuck with "advance payment" recently I will be returning to using the term "deposit" very soon.

At the end of the day it is the word that a client understands the most and as long as I am clear about the implications of a cancellation on the deposit then I am happy.

I am however increasingly uneasy about retaining money if I rebook a cancelled date at a similar fee.

Have you ever managed that--in my experience when you are fully booked all the last minute bookings come through--when its quiet and your not working---nothing!

You wouldnt be uneasy if you had as much time wasted as I have with these people.

I wont go there--believe you me on a time costed basis I can justify keeping it!

As Theo says theres a lot more to a cancelled booking than you may realise in the way of time wasted setting up the arrangements in the first place.

CRAZY K

[Steve the DJ]

You wouldnt be uneasy if you had as much time wasted as I have with these people.

I wont go there--believe you me on a time costed basis I can justify keeping it!

As Theo says theres a lot more to a cancelled booking than you may realise in the way of time wasted setting up the arrangements in the first place.

I don't feel uneasy about keeping it if the client cancels and I cannot rebook, but I do feel uneasy about keeping it all if I do get another booking for the cancelled date.

Of course it does depend on how much work has already gone into the cancelled booking but in my experience apart from collecting the deposit and contract, very little effort has been expended at the point of cancellation.

Therefore I think offering a certain amount of "good will" is a positive action.

[CRAZY K]

I don't feel uneasy about keeping it if the client cancels and I cannot rebook, but I do feel uneasy about keeping it all if I do get another booking for the cancelled date.

Of course it does depend on how much work has already gone into the cancelled booking but in my experience apart from collecting the deposit and contract, very little effort has been expended at the point of cancellation.

Therefore I think offering a certain amount of "good will" is a positive action.

Good will---people dont have 2 Weddings normally so im afraid thats a non starter for this case.

I wont bore you with the long story but it involves a sea of emails, a lot of time spent contacting other DJs I have worked with for a reference, checking with customers if they could come along and watch me---and then not having the decency to apologise for not acting on that--it just goes on and on --and on.

I do agree a bit unusual but it happens.

Just to show I try and help--but usually lose out--I have a customer cancelled two weeks ago--said it was being rearranged.

I have said I dont mind doing that off peak ( Winter) but NOT right in the middle of my busy time which they want ( May )

I also reduced the cancellation fee (which is normally 100 per cent) if they dont rearrange to 60 per cent of the original fee.

The problem tends to be if you rearrange in 8 months time your going to be missing that lump sum you could have earned somewhere else.

Because it HAS to be on a certain night people forget we honour their date and turn away other work--I have to ram this down peoples throats as they generally dont understand, probably dont want to if your asking for money:eek:

Try cancelling your Holiday at the last minute and see what happens.

I think next year is going to be difficult, this is just the start.

CRAZY K

[theoloyla]

I think you are right.

[rob1963]

You're booked for a 40th birthday party which is cancelled for no good refundable reason, and you retain the deposit.

Six months later, the original hirer rings you to book for their daughter's 18th.

Is the deposit carried over?


Indeed it is, Vectis.


What about if they were booking for their FRIEND's 40th party?

Yes...the deposit would still be good against their FRIEND'S 40th party.

Last time someone phoned to cancel, I told her I would hold the deposit against any future booking...even if it was for someone she knows.

I think this is very fair.

[ppentertainments]

Good will---people dont have 2 Weddings normally so im afraid thats a non starter for this case.

I think that is untrue in todays world :D :D

Seriously though I agree with what you say, spot on.

[rob1963]

I don't feel uneasy about keeping it if the client cancels and I cannot rebook, but I do feel uneasy about keeping it all if I do get another booking for the cancelled date.

Of course it does depend on how much work has already gone into the cancelled booking but in my experience apart from collecting the deposit and contract, very little effort has been expended at the point of cancellation.

Therefore I think offering a certain amount of "good will" is a positive action.

In that case, why not do something like me & in the event of a cancellation just hold their deposit against any future bookings (or you could put a time limit on it, maybe a year)?

[Tom]

Well I had my first cancellation today but it has a very good reason.

It was for a suprise birthday party for the clients otherhalf. His other half has fallen ill but she is also pregnant and things don't look to good at the moment.

I phoned up the client (as he left me a voicemail as I was driving at the time) and wished her well.

I also said because he signed the t&c, he was unable to get his booking fee back. Felt bad for the guy but these are my t&c's and I must stick by them.

I will be sending a letter to confirm the cancellation but I will also give them a discount coupon if they wish to book again.



Rob....You say you dont like the word booking fee as you think it sounds like an extra charge. When you take an booking fee, do you add this on as an extra or do you take it out of the total price given as a quote???

I take this out of the final payment. This then brings the overall price down by £50 and it looks like they are getting a cheaper disco as they wont have to pay the extra £50 on the night or before the day of the gig.

[CRAZY K]

Well I had my first cancellation today but it has a very good reason.

It was for a suprise birthday party for the clients otherhalf. His other half has fallen ill but she is also pregnant and things don't look to good at the moment.

I phoned up the client (as he left me a voicemail as I was driving at the time) and wished her well.

I also said because he signed the t&c, he was unable to get his booking fee back. Felt bad for the guy but these are my t&c's and I must stick by them.

I will be sending a letter to confirm the cancellation but I will also give them a discount coupon if they wish to book again.



Rob....You say you dont like the word booking fee as you think it sounds like an extra charge. When you take an booking fee, do you add this on as an extra or do you take it out of the total price given as a quote???

I take this out of the final payment. This then brings the overall price down by £50 and it looks like they are getting a cheaper disco as they wont have to pay the extra £50 on the night or before the day of the gig.

Thats fair enough--somehow I think most people would spot that one Tom!

CRAZY K

[ppentertainments]

I must say in circustamces like that and if the booking was in advance I probably would offer a refund if I could somehow find proof it was genuine. Not saying there is any right or wrong answer just my personal opinion.

I can feel a 'Rob' poll appearing shortly :D :D

[rob1963]

Rob....You say you dont like the word booking fee as you think it sounds like an extra charge. When you take an booking fee, do you add this on as an extra or do you take it out of the total price given as a quote???

Tom,

I take it off the final total.

My initial letter tells them the total price, say £350.

It asks them to enclose a deposit of £50 with the booking form, and states that the balance of £300 can either be paid in advance by cheque or in cash on the night. This way everything is clear & there is no room for confusion.


II can feel a 'Rob' poll appearing shortly :D :D

Hey PP...I reckon it's about time YOU started a poll for a change! :p

[Steve the DJ]

Good will---people dont have 2 Weddings normally so im afraid thats a non starter for this case...

...Because it HAS to be on a certain night people forget we honour their date and turn away other work--I have to ram this down peoples throats as they generally dont understand, probably dont want to if your asking for money:eek:

I don't think we are disagreeing, if someone cancels then keep the deposit, but my point is, if you do resell the date at a fee similar to what you would have earned at the original booking and you haven't done much work on the cancelled job, is it still reasonable to keep all of the deposit?

I think it may be a little excessive to keep it all in these circumstances but I guess it is each to their own.


In that case, why not do something like me & in the event of a cancellation just hold their deposit against any future bookings (or you could put a time limit on it, maybe a year)?

I do.

[rob1963]

I do.

Great minds!

:D

[soundtracker]

Hey PP...I reckon it's about time YOU started a poll for a change! :p

Oh deep joy!:bang:

[rob1963]

Oh deep joy!:bang:

Everything ok there, Soundtracker?

:confused:

[Corabar Steve]

Why was this posted in the Lounge?

Moved to a more relevant section.

[CRAZY K]

I don't think we are disagreeing, if someone cancels then keep the deposit, but my point is, if you do resell the date at a fee similar to what you would have earned at the original booking and you haven't done much work on the cancelled job, is it still reasonable to keep all of the deposit?

I think it may be a little excessive to keep it all in these circumstances but I guess it is each to their own.



I do.

Completely agree if you can roll things forward TO ANOTHER DATE---I am currently doing this with a Charity fund raising booking-- with a Wedding you cant unfortunately, in this case also my admin and time costs were very high.

I try to be " Mr Reasonable " --sometimes its not possible.

CRAZY K

[JAMdisco]

I would generally keep the deposit but do as Rob says and hold it against any future dates providing I'm available.

It does incurr costs in admin time, printing of booking packs, stamps (I always use first class), travelling times (if a pre-meeting is required) and not to mention the lack of gig on said night.

If I get another booking for the date, I would still keep the deposit (or whatever you want to call it) as I've still paid for all the above.

I currently charge £50 up to £250 and £80 over £250.

[CRAZY K]

I would generally keep the deposit but do as Rob says and hold it against any future dates providing I'm available.

It does incurr costs in admin time, printing of booking packs, stamps (I always use first class), travelling times (if a pre-meeting is required) and not to mention the lack of gig on said night.

If I get another booking for the date, I would still keep the deposit (or whatever you want to call it) as I've still paid for all the above.

I currently charge £50 up to £250 and £80 over £250.

And for everyone, Rob and FDDJ included-- if you found the cancellation was because they had got something alternative and cheaper to suit themselves---which is the case here for my cancelled booking--:D :D :D

What then ?

Would you be falling over yourself to be handing money back or give a credit?

A cancellation---is a cancellation---is a cancellation IMHO

And just to prove I really am " Mr Reasonable" I had a gig due to take place last week which I verbally agreed prior to paperwork and said if they cancelled I wanted a £100--the guy phoned and said beyond his control the Committee got someone for nothing ( against his advice) so sorry but where
did he send the £100--I told him not to bother BUT next time they wanted someone to do a PROPER job--- ring me.

I know they never will---but sometimes what goes round etc.

CRAZY K

[One Vision]

I don't think I would be inclined to carry any deposits forward.
The way I see the deposit is, its a fail safe, if they cancel its helped towards the admin side etc. or could be seen as small compensation for your efforts as time is precious in life and time is money in business.

I can see certain circumstances that are beyond their control when it comes to being liable for the full contract fee, if a late cancellation; but not with the deposit.

[Steve the DJ]

And for everyone, Rob and FDDJ included-- if you found the cancellation was because they had got something alternative and cheaper to suit themselves---which is the case here for my cancelled booking--:D :D :D

What then ?

Would you be falling over yourself to be handing money back or give a credit?


Does it really matter why they cancelled?

I don't think so.

I would only be considering possibly offering a partial refund as a gesture of goodwill if I had secured a fresh booking at a similar fee and if I had not put a great deal of effort into the cancelled booking.

From my point of view I am holding £100, so if I have only sent out some paperwork and held a date for a bit (which I have now refilled) I find it morally difficult to justify holding the whole amount to cover my costs (which are minimal at best), in the same way that people are miffed when a bank charges them £25 for a letter.

In this scenario I might return £25, £50 or £75 as a gesture of goodwill.

However if I had completed all of the paperwork, met up with the couple to discuss their event and then it was cancelled I would feel quite justified in retaining the entire deposit to cover the costs I have incurred, regardless of whether or not I secure another booking.

[rob1963]

And for everyone, Rob and FDDJ included-- if you found the cancellation was because they had got something alternative and cheaper to suit themselves---which is the case here for my cancelled booking--:D :D :D

What then ?

Would you be falling over yourself to be handing money back or give a credit?


Yes...I would still offer them a credit against a future booking.

The reason for them cancelling is completely irrelevant to me. In all cases they won't get a refund, but I'll hold their deposit against a future booking.

If they cancelled because they'd found another disco which was much cheaper, it's unlikely they'd book me again, in which case I'd be £50 up.


Does it really matter why they cancelled?

I don't think so.



Not in my book.

A cancellation is a cancellation.


From my point of view I am holding £100, so if I have only sent out some paperwork and held a date for a bit (which I have now refilled) I find it morally difficult to justify holding the whole amount to cover my costs (which are minimal at best), in the same way that people are miffed when a bank charges them £25 for a letter.

In this scenario I might return £25, £50 or £75 as a gesture of goodwill.



That's fair comment FDDJ, as you are taking an upfront payment of £100, whereas I only take £50...so I have no problem keeping the full amount to cover my costs, and certainly don't feel uneasy about doing so.

[theoloyla]

I agree with Rob. I only take approximately 10% deposit; so if they cancel they lose it.

[JAMdisco]

And for everyone, Rob and FDDJ included-- if you found the cancellation was because they had got something alternative and cheaper to suit themselves---which is the case here for my cancelled booking--:D :D :D

What then ?

Would you be falling over yourself to be handing money back or give a credit?


Erm, No. If I found out they had found someone cheaper I would explain that the deposit is non-refundable so is it really going to be cheaper in the long run?

Also depending on when they cancelled if it's short notice and they have no intention of using me again, I would call upon my T&C's regarding cancellation fess. One month or less=half total price, One week or less=full amount.

As they have signed it, thereby agreeing to the T&C's I would have no quarms about taking it to small claims court either. :p

[CRAZY K]

Erm, No. If I found out they had found someone cheaper I would explain that the deposit is non-refundable so is it really going to be cheaper in the long run?

Also depending on when they cancelled if it's short notice and they have no intention of using me again, I would call upon my T&C's regarding cancellation fess. One month or less=half total price, One week or less=full amount.

As they have signed it, thereby agreeing to the T&C's I would have no quarms about taking it to small claims court either. :p

Sadly more than 30 days notice was given:D :D :D

They went for a band--god knows why it took 18 months for them to decide
:eek: :eek: :eek:

CRAZY K

[A1DL]

There is another very salient difference between the advance payment being a "deposit" and a "booking fee".

Where a cancellation charge is made, or a customer forfeits a deposit, there is no VAT due because HMRC do not deem a service to have been provided.

However, if the advance payment is a "booking fee", this consideration is a taxable supply irrespective of whether the booking goes ahead.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

There is another very salient difference between the advance payment being a "deposit" and a "booking fee".

Where a cancellation charge is made, or a customer forfeits a deposit, there is no VAT due because HMRC do not deem a service to have been provided.

I must admit I didn't know that.


However, if the advance payment is a "booking fee", this consideration is a taxable supply irrespective of whether the booking goes ahead.

And if the advance payment is called 'advance payment' rather than deposit or booking fee?

[A1DL]

I must admit I didn't know that.
And if the advance payment is called 'advance payment' rather than deposit or booking fee?

Section 8.13 of the blue "VAT Notes" booklet, Daz.

If it's called an advance payment, I would treat it the same as a deposit and do the VAT journals ;) The specific example given states "Booking fee" and uses a hotel booking fee where the guest does not take up the room.

[rob1963]

For those who use the phrase "booking fee" I'd be interested to know how many customers ask what you mean, as I think it's really confusing.

If I phoned a company to ask for a quote for a service & was told "The price for that will be £300, and we require a £50 booking fee" then I'd think the total price was £350.

[Vectis]

So the best approach therefore is to charge a deposit but change the Ts & Cs to state that cancellation charges apply. If it just so happens that the cancellation charge equals the deposit amount then so be it. ;)

Actually that sounds far more palatable to me. As the cancellation charge could reasonably flex depending on proximity to the booking date.

Also helps with the 'deposit will be held over' concept.


I like it.

[CRAZY K]

For those who use the phrase "booking fee" I'd be interested to know how many customers ask what you mean, as I think it's really confusing.

If I phoned a company to ask for a quote for a service & was told "The price for that will be £300, and we require a £50 booking fee" then I'd think the total price was £350.

ITS THE WAY YOU TELL EM ROB ;)

The words are--

The cost is £350--theres a NRBF of £50 and £300 is payable in 50p pieces on the night:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Everyone understands that.

Never had a problem.

The Contract states--

NRBF x
Balance y

Total = The whole fee

Simple.

The intention is to show that the NRBF is for work carried out BEFORE the event. No one works for nothing do they?

A deposit sounds like its just an advance payment for work done on the day thats not DUE until you have done the Disco, --why then should they pay anything if they cancel say 2 months ahead of the gig and you havent actually done the Disco--the answer is--because you may well have incurred a lot of time and cost.

NRBF makes it clear THERE IS WORK before the event that has to be paid for.

I have had three gigs cancelled since using the NRBF approach and NEVER been asked for a refund.

Why ? because it does what it says on the tin :D

CRAZY K

[soundtracker]

ITS THE WAY YOU TELL EM ROB ;)

The words are--

The cost is £350--theres a NRBF of £50 and £300 is payable in 50p pieces on the night:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Everyone understands that.

Never had a problem.

The Contract states--

NRBF x
Balance y

Total = The whole fee

Simple.

The intention is to show that the NRBF is for work carried out BEFORE the event. No one works for nothing do they?

A deposit sounds like its just an advance payment for work done on the day thats not DUE until you have done the Disco, --why then should they pay anything if they cancel say 2 months ahead of the gig and you havent actually done the Disco--the answer is--because you may well have incurred a lot of time and cost.

NRBF makes it clear THERE IS WORK before the event that has to be paid for.

I have had three gigs cancelled since using the NRBF approach and NEVER been asked for a refund.

Why ? because it does what it says on the tin :D

CRAZY K

Agreed:)

[rob1963]

ITS THE WAY YOU TELL EM ROB ;)

The words are--

The cost is £350--theres a NRBF of £50 and £300 is payable in 50p pieces on the night:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Everyone understands that.

Never had a problem.

The Contract states--

NRBF x
Balance y

Total = The whole fee

Simple.

The intention is to show that the NRBF is for work carried out BEFORE the event. No one works for nothing do they?

A deposit sounds like its just an advance payment for work done on the day thats not DUE until you have done the Disco, --why then should they pay anything if they cancel say 2 months ahead of the gig and you havent actually done the Disco--the answer is--because you may well have incurred a lot of time and cost.

NRBF makes it clear THERE IS WORK before the event that has to be paid for.

I have had three gigs cancelled since using the NRBF approach and NEVER been asked for a refund.

Why ? because it does what it says on the tin :D

CRAZY K

Interesting stuff, Crazy...and I see where you're coming from.

However, hell will freeze over before my deposit becomes a NRBF, simply because booking fee sounds to me like an extra charge - which I don't like, and because everyone knows what a deposit is.

:D

[Vectis]

Careful what you wish for...
:D

[CRAZY K]

Interesting stuff, Crazy...and I see where you're coming from.

However, hell will freeze over before my deposit becomes a NRBF, simply because booking fee sounds to me like an extra charge - which I don't like, and because everyone knows what a deposit is.

:D

But we all go through a learning curve ---

Before I joined a forum a few years ago I wasnt aware I needed PAT.

I also read about NRBF on here and embraced it because it makes sense in the event of cancelled gigs where you have already expended time and money.

I still say if you call it a deposit you are inviting that old expression---

I WANT MY DEPOSIT BACK:eek:

If its a Booking Fee no one asks for that back--how can they--they booked you and you charged a fee to do it---thats why its called a BOOKING FEE.

Just trying to make life easy for you Rob---thats all my friend.

CRAZY K

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I still say if you call it a deposit you are inviting that old expression---

I WANT MY DEPOSIT BACK:eek:



But that's probably never happened to Rob in 25 years and 1000 discos...:sj:

[Jiggles]

But that's probably never happened to Rob in 25 years and 1000 discos...:sj:

Knock off two zeros Daz :D

[CRAZY K]

But that's probably never happened to Rob in 25 years and 1000 discos...:sj:

You might be surprised---it certainly happened to me last year--so thats why I like NRBF.

Note Rob this is what you say--

If you care to read your copy of the signed Contract you will notice the words

( using slightly raised voice for effect ) NON REFUNDABLE

If we can help any time in the future please contact us --

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

CRAZY K

[Corabar Steve]

But we all go through a learning curve ---

Before I joined a forum a few years ago I wasnt aware I needed PAT.

I also read about NRBF on here and embraced it because it makes sense in the event of cancelled gigs where you have already expended time and money.

I still say if you call it a deposit you are inviting that old expression---

I WANT MY DEPOSIT BACK:eek:

If its a Booking Fee no one asks for that back--how can they--they booked you and you charged a fee to do it---thats why its called a BOOKING FEE.

Just trying to make life easy for you Rob---thats all my friend.

CRAZY K

Just in case you missed post #11 (& the one it was quoted from) here it is in full



Dosen't matter what it's called as long as you make it clear it is non refundable & part of the overall total.

This information is from a contract lawyer so can we have the end of this tiresome debate about what to call your deposit now please.:bang:The only actual difference that may or may not affect you (dependant on your taxation status) is the one brought up by Tony in post #41

[CRAZY K]

Just in case you missed post #11 (& the one it was quoted from) here it is in full

The only actual difference that may or may not affect you (dependant on your taxation status) is the one brought up by Tony in post #41

I will not say anymore and I am aware of the legal situation outlined.

My point to Rob was in my view Booking Fee distances the transaction from the actual Disco on the night which deposit does not---IMHO---even though described as non refundable, I read on here there is no difference--no problem.

I am trying to minimise the potential problem with customers perception and expectations when it all gets nasty. i.e cancellations.

I am currently getting the runaround regarding a booking cancelled a couple of weeks ago--broken promises to get back to me etc.

I think 2009 could be when all this starts to become a practical issue--without wishing to be negative---

:zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip: :zip:

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

I still say if you call it a deposit you are inviting that old expression---

I WANT MY DEPOSIT BACK :eek:


Unless you call it a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. :D


But that's probably never happened to Rob in 25 years and 1000 discos...:sj:

Funnily enough, someone cancelled a few days ago & asked for her deposit back.

And it's 1,650 discos, not 1,000, Darren! :D

[CRAZY K]

Unless you call it a NON-REFUNDABLE deposit. :D



Funnily enough, someone cancelled a few days ago & asked for her deposit back.

:D

And what happened next:D

CRAZY K

[rob1963]

And what happened next:D

CRAZY K

I told her no & haven't heard anything back.

:D

[theoloyla]

SEDA contract shows Fee payable, Advance payment (due on signing) and Balance to be paid..... Terms and conditions stat that "If either party cancels a booking then that party shall pay to the other by way of liquidated damages a sum equal to the advance payment..."

[CRAZY K]

SEDA contract shows Fee payable, Advance payment (due on signing) and Balance to be paid..... Terms and conditions stat that "If either party cancels a booking then that party shall pay to the other by way of liquidated damages a sum equal to the advance payment..."

I see--so certainly no refunds given of advance payment.:D

And full refund of advance payment to client if Disco cancels.

Perhaps to tidy it up it might be better---

....cancels the arrangement to provide Entertainment evidenced in writing by the standard SEDA Contract dated xxxxxxxxxxxxand signed by both parties

If your going down the legal jargon route :D :D :D

Im sure its been through the Small Claims Courts though:D

CRAZY K

[theoloyla]

Indeed. As you point out if the disco cancels the gig then the punter gets the deposit back. That is patently fair and balanced which is part of why the SEDA contract was approved by the Office of Fair Trading.