How school has changed..

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have been sitting with my 11 year old daughter this evening discussing and listening to rap, hip hop and electro and have also been showing her a few old DMC world championships vids of DJ Cheese, Chad Jackson and Cash Money.

I've played through Run DMC, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, Afrika Bambaataa and a lot of early hip hop and the reason?

She and her friends have to write a rap about gangs in Reading for a music class!

How things have changed! :o

[PropellerHeadCase]

To be fair, Rap is at least pushing the creative use of the spoken word, it's just unfortunate that the bulk of it is not terribly creative. Make sure she hears some Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, De La Soul and Tribe Called Quest, too.

Actually, for a song about gangs check out 'Language of Violence' by Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy...

The first day of school was always the hardest
The first day of school, the hallways the darkest
Like a gauntlet
the voices haunted
Walking in with his thin skin, lowered chin
He knew the names that they would taunt him with
Faggot, sissy, punk, queen, queer
Although he'd never had sex in his 15 years
And when they harassed him it was for a reason
And when they provoked him it became open season
for the fox and the hunter, the sparks and the thunder
that pushed the boy under, then pillage and plunder
It kind of makes you wonder
how one can hurt another

But dehumanizing the victim makes things simpler
It's like breathing with a respirator
It eases the conscience of even the most conscious
and calculating violator
Words can reduce a person to an object,
something more easy to hate
An inanimate entity, completely disposable,
no problem to obliterate

[CHORUS:]
But death is the silence
in this language of violence
Death is the silence
But death is the silence
in this cycle of violence
death is the silence

It's tough to be young, the young long to be tougher
When we pick on someone else it might make us feel rougher
Abused by their fathers but was at home though
so to prove to each other that they were not homos
The exclamation of the phobic fury
executioner, a judge and jury
The mob mentality, individuality was nowhere
Dignity forgotten at the bottom of a dumb old dare and a numb cold stare
On the way home it was back to name calling
Ten against one they had his back up against the wall and
they reveled in their laughter as they surrounded him
But it wasn't a game when they up jumped and grounded him
They picked up their bats with their muscles straining
and they decided they were gonna beat this fella's brain in
with an awful, powerful, showerful, an hour full of violence
Inflict the strictest brutality and dominance
They didn't hear him screaming, they didn't hear him pleading
They ran like cowards and left the boy bleeding
in a pool of red 'til all tears were shed
and his eyes quietly slid into the back of his head
dead...

[CHORUS]

[x2]
You won't see the face 'til the eyelids drop
You won't hear the screaming until it stops

The boy's parents were gone and his grandmother had raised him
She was mad she had no form of retaliation
The pack didn't have to worry about being on a hitlist
But the thing they never thought about was that there was a witness
to this senseless crime, right place wrong time
Tried as an adult one of them was gonna do hard time

The first day of prison was always the hardest
The first day of prison, the hallways the darkest
Like a gauntlet
the voices haunted
Faggot, sissy, punk, queen, queer
Words he used before had a new meaning in here
As a group of men in front of him came near
for the first time in his life the young bully felt fear
He'd never been on this side of the name calling
Five against one they had his back up against the wall and
he had never questioned his own sexuality
but this group of men didn't hesitate in their reality
with an awful, powerful, showerful, an hour full of violence
Inflict the strictest brutality and dominance
They didn't hear him screaming
They didn't hear him pleading
They took what they wanted and then left him bleeding in the corner
The giant reduced to jack horner

But dehumanizing the victim makes things simpler
It's like breathing with a respirator
It eases the conscience of even the most conscious
and calculating violator

The power of words, don't take it for granted
when you hear a man ranting
Don't just read the lips, be more sublime than this
Put everything in context, is this a tale of rough justice
in a land where there's no justice at all ?
Who is really the victim ? Or are we all the cause, and victim of it all ?

[CHORUS]

[x2]
You won't see the face 'til the eyelids drop
You won't hear the screaming until it stops

[rob1963]

To be fair, Rap is at least pushing the creative use of the spoken word, it's just unfortunate that the bulk of it is not terribly creative.

You can say that again!

I always thought rap was for people who couldn't sing...in which case I'm surprised there isn't lots MORE of it around!

[Dynamic Entertainment]

You can say that again!

I always thought rap was for people who couldn't sing...in which case I'm surprised there isn't lots MORE of it around!

You may be surprised at how many rappers can actually hold a note.... Not into rap myself but my brother loves it and sometimes they dont do half bad.

[PropellerHeadCase]

Queen Latifah, anyone? One of the first and amongst the most successful female rappers also duetted with Rod Stewart on one of his American Songbook albums AND has a major role in Hairspray!

[rob1963]

Queen Latifah, anyone? One of the first and amongst the most successful female rappers

With ONE top 20 hit 18 years ago...and it wasn't even a solo hit, either!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I had a liking of the early hip hop and electro (as they called it back in the day)...I remember the old stuff like Afrika Bambaataa & The Soulsonic Force, Grandmaster Flash, Cold Crush Brothers etc etc...One of my favourite films is 'wildstyle' which has all of the early stuff in it and there is a classic bit in the film where Fab 5 Freddy and Grandmaster Flash are in a kitchen and 'Flash has 3 record decks set up and he does the 'Wheels of Steel'.

Here's a sample (it's been mucked about with though) - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9NUucDPoFoI

I remember going to Reading one saturday afternoon as a kid and going to the old market by the Hexagon. There used to be a record stall there and I picked up the 12" of 'Planet Rock' which I absolutely loved to death (based on 'Trans Europe Express' by Kraftwerk by the way!)....I also played it to death. I went through a stage in 1983/84 of being into the whole Breakdancing and graffiti thing and in 1983 our crew (haha) called the 'Beat Boys' came 6th out of 20 in the UK Breakdancing championships in Camden, London. We met Tim Westwood and Womack & Womack.

Back then, the whole Hip Hop thing was a laugh and pretty soft to be honest. Over the years it has turned into a monster in my opinion and is all 'F' this and 'F' that and very derogatory. Bands like Public Enemy and the Disposable Heroes had a message but they weren't in the same 'out of order' league as what we have today. Run DMC who were considered a bit of a joke by many of the people in London who I used to hang about with at the time, were easy to listen to. It was when the likes of NWA and Ice T (also with Bodycount) came along that it started to get a bit harder.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Queen Latifah, anyone? One of the first and amongst the most successful female rappers also duetted with Rod Stewart on one of his American Songbook albums AND has a major role in Hairspray!




With ONE top 20 hit 18 years ago...and it wasn't even a solo hit, either!

And what has having hits got to do with...



I always thought rap was for people who couldn't sing...in which case I'm surprised there isn't lots MORE of it around!

[rob1963]

Absolutely nothing!

I don't remember sating it DID!

:confused:

[cara]

from what i remember (big daddy kane, public enemy etc.) rap/hip-hop music used to be about oppression & struggling to get heard

now it's turned on it's head and it's about completely the opposite of what it used to be about.

[Penfold42]

I do like a bit of a rap....goes will with chicken or mince....:p

Seriously.....I grew up on hip/hop and rap....some really funky beats. Great for getting down on the lino in the good old days.......back not up to much these days.....but way back then it use to be a refreshing change in music.

Not so sure nowadays and as for writing a rap for a music lesson......never heard that before but kids at school do a variety of things now, on the whole I think it's good to learn new cultures......:)

[OllieJames]

I had to make a rap about the french alphabet LOL.

I think my brother had to make a rap about world affairs for relgious education..

[soundtracker]

I do like a bit of a rap....goes will with chicken or mince....:p

Seriously.....I grew up on hip/hop and rap....some really funky beats. Great for getting down on the lino in the good old days.......back not up to much these days.....but way back then it use to be a refreshing change in music.

Not so sure nowadays and as for writing a rap for a music lesson......never heard that before but kids at school do a variety of things now, on the whole I think it's good to learn new cultures......:)

You're right Tone ,it was a refreshing change 25 years ago, now its just tired and boring!

[rob1963]

Not so sure nowadays and as for writing a rap for a music lesson......never heard that before

Neither have I, and bearing in mind that it doesn't invove singing, I'd have thought writing a rap would be just as appropriate for an English lesson as a music one!

:shrug:

[PropellerHeadCase]

With ONE top 20 hit 18 years ago...and it wasn't even a solo hit, either!

And AC/DC have famously had no top ten hits in the UK... your point?



from what i remember (big daddy kane, public enemy etc.) rap/hip-hop music used to be about oppression & struggling to get heard

now it's turned on it's head and it's about completely the opposite of what it used to be about.

Not entirely true, check the aforementioned Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, the subsequently formed Spearhead and/or anything else by/with Michael Franti, check Jurassic 5/Quannum MCs, Mos Def, Jeru the Damaja (guested on Groove Armada's 'Suntoucher'), Consolidated, etc. Even Wu Tang Clan and KRS:One still come out with thought provoking material every now and then.



You're right Tone ,it was a refreshing change 25 years ago, now its just tired and boring!

See above.

[rob1963]

Queen Latifah, anyone? One of the first and amongst the most successful female rappers


With ONE top 20 hit 18 years ago...and it wasn't even a solo hit, either!


And AC/DC have famously had no top ten hits in the UK...your point?

AC/DC might not have had any top 10 UK hits, but they've had 12 top 30 hits against Queen Latifah's one.

You cited Queen Latifah as one of the most successful female rappers.

There is usually a link between general success & the number of chart hits.

Therefore, to answer your question, my point is that if she's one of the most successful female rappers, that doesn't say much for the rest of them!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I think you'll also find that writing a rap is harder than you think.
To those that think it's easy....try!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

There is usually a link between general success & the number of chart hits

Rob, come on!

Depeche Mode, Iron Maiden, ACDC, Bush.....and loads more.
All stopped having 'chart' hits a while back (Depeche Mode continue to do so though so ignore that one), but they are some of the biggest bands in the world!!!

Sorry to go off topic but that statement made me laugh!! I know you used the word USUALLY but I still chuckled. There are tons of artists out there in every genre of music that don't have chart hits yet are still huge and successful!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Rob, come on!

Depeche Mode, Iron Maiden, ACDC, Bush.....and loads more.
All stopped having 'chart' hits a while back (Depeche Mode continue to do so though so ignore that one), but they are some of the biggest bands in the world!!!

Sorry to go off topic but that statement made me laugh!! I know you used the word USUALLY but I still chuckled. There are tons of artists out there in every genre of music that don't have chart hits yet are still huge and successful!

Led Zeppelin.

[PropellerHeadCase]

AC/DC might not have had any top 10 UK hits, but they've had 12 top 30 hits against Queen Latifah's one.

You cited Queen Latifah as one of the most successful female rappers.

There is usually a link between general success & the number of chart hits.

Therefore, to answer your question, my point is that if she's one of the most successful female rappers, that doesn't say much for the rest of them!

Queen Latifah was successful in Rap when Rap was still relatively 'new', her career is now outside of rap though she has, for example, added vocals to a rap remix of Bowie's 'Fame'. More successful female rappers would include MC Lyte, Missy Elliott, Salt N Pepa and so on... heard of them?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Queen Latifah was successful in Rap when Rap was still relatively 'new'

I assume she had one or two more 'hits' in the States?

[mikeee]

Ah, Rap, with a capital "C". Bring back Spooky Tooth and King Crimson :) :) :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ah, Rap, with a capital "C".

I would have thought as a DJ of long standing you'd be more open minded.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Some people aren't though are they Darren... I'm not a big fan but I try to know a bit about each genre because it may come in handy and at the end of the day...it's my job and I don't want to look stupid should anyone ask me.

By the way Darren (sorry off topic), did you get back to that guy?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Some people aren't though are they Darren... I'm not a big fan but I try to know a bit about each genre because it may come in handy and at the end of the day...it's my job and I don't want to look stupid should anyone ask me.

By the way Darren (sorry off topic), did you get back to that guy?

I emailed him yesterday with a slightly more expensive price, explaining about the vat, but he hasn't come back to me.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Ok, cheers mate. He may get back to you, I know the price is an issue that's why I dropped mine as he contacted me via recommendation. There are 2 of them splitting the cost so who knows?

Anyway, sorry to go off topic guys.

[theoloyla]

I dont mind rap its all the profanities and sexism that I object to.

[mikeee]

I would have thought as a DJ of long standing you'd be more open minded.

:D And I'm the guy that did an 18th in Haslemere and was told by the punters and the staff that I did the best R&B, Rap, Hip Hop set they had ever heard. The police were so impressed that the venue now has to get their OK before they can have any event there :D :D :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:D And I'm the guy that did an 18th in Haslemere and was told by the punters and the staff that I did the best R&B, Rap, Hip Hop set they had ever heard.

Nothing to do with being open minded though, is it?

[mikeee]

My mind is so open, everything drops out :D :D
I just have concerns on where the music leads to.

[rob1963]

There is usually a link between general success & the number of chart hits.


Rob, come on!

Depeche Mode, Iron Maiden, ACDC, Bush.....and loads more.
All stopped having 'chart' hits a while back (Depeche Mode continue to do so though so ignore that one), but they are some of the biggest bands in the world!!!

Sorry to go off topic but that statement made me laugh!! I know you used the word USUALLY but I still chuckled. There are tons of artists out there in every genre of music that don't have chart hits yet are still huge and successful!

Gary, I hear what you're saying, but that's why I was careful to include the word "usually".

I stand by my comment, because rightly or wrongly, that's what I believe.


Queen Latifah was successful in Rap when Rap was still relatively 'new', her career is now outside of rap though she has, for example, added vocals to a rap remix of Bowie's 'Fame'. More successful female rappers would include MC Lyte, Missy Elliott, Salt N Pepa and so on... heard of them?

Yes I have, apart from the first one.

[wensleydale]

some rap is quite poetic and embraces many current issues not touched upon by other genres.
and some is just plain rubbish.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

That's the same with all music isn't it?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I stand by my comment, because rightly or wrongly, that's what I believe.





And I noticed my comment was ignored.

How many hits did she have in the States?

[BeerFunk]

If I was to summarise the history of rap and hip-hop, and what it means to me, from my own experience, it would include :

Dr Dre
Outkast
Puff Daddy
Nate Dogg
Snoop Dogg
Beastie Boys
De La Soul
Wu Tang Clan/ODB/Method Man
Redman
Eminem
Wyclef Jean/Pras/Fugees
Usher
Run DMC

Generally speaking, the best rap and hip-hop tracks never seem to chart well - take note Rob ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Usher in a rap and hip hop list? Really? What would he have to do with the history of it? (I realise you said what it means to you)

[BeerFunk]

Usher in a rap and hip hop list? Really? What would he have to do with the history of it? (I realise you said what it means to you)Yeah I did think that would be flagged up (I thought Alan would be first to it though, so well done!). I suppose it's mainly down to his collaborations with rappers - much like Nate Dogg, who isn't a full-on rapper.

[rob1963]

I assume she had one or two more 'hits' in the States?


And I noticed my comment was ignored.

How many hits did she have in the States?

Darren,

The reason I didn't respond to your comment was simply because I don't have a clue how many hits she had in the USA.

My earlier post was referring to success in the UK though, and the connection between that & the number of chart hits in the UK. I apologise for not making that clear.

[Corabar Steve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBt_QbQ_sSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNQ_vFwgtAU

[PropellerHeadCase]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNQ_vFwgtAU

LOVE that track :D

'Twas on some soundtrack or other... Night of the Living Dead, I think.

[Corabar Steve]

I can't decide if we're off topic or not :con:

[PropellerHeadCase]

If you're not sure it ain't the case
So in your face like a can of mace

[Corabar Steve]

Yo Baby Yo!

[rob1963]

Generally speaking, the best rap and hip-hop tracks never seem to chart well - take note Rob ;)

Note taken as requested ;)