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soundmaster mobile disco
15-12-2008, 10:23 PM
I recently bought my self a brand new D2 Director to use for digital djing.My question to you fellow D2 user is this

1) what file system are you useing on your external hard drive?

I am useing a freecom hardrive with the Fat 32 file system but when loading tracks from player a to b i get a slight blitch in the music that is playing in side a.(ie you have a track playing in side a but now want to cue up side b,when i have selected my track from the crate and press to b the music that is playing out from side a gets a slight blich).

I contacted Numark today and they say its the hardrive file system that causing that!

2) i also have another freecom hardrive which is formatted in ntfs.The proble that i have with this is it does not seem to store any information after i switch the hd of.

When i first switch the D2 on and the hd on i get the following message

Warning the device in usb 2 (freecom hardive ntfs) does not support writing data.You can only use the file browser to access tracks on this device.

What does this mean?
Is this why nothimg is stored on the crate\playlist that i have previously made up?

Can you help me out please

Excalibur
15-12-2008, 10:34 PM
I recently bought my self a brand new D2 Director to use for digital djing.My question to you fellow D2 user is this

1) what file system are you useing on your external hard drive?

I am useing a freecom hardrive with the Fat 32 file system but when loading tracks from player a to b i get a slight blitch in the music that is playing in side a.(ie you have a track playing in side a but now want to cue up side b,when i have selected my track from the crate and press to b the music that is playing out from side a gets a slight blich).

I contacted Numark today and they say its the hardrive file system that causing that!

2) i also have another freecom hardrive which is formatted in ntfs.The proble that i have with this is it does not seem to store any information after i switch the hd of.

When i first switch the D2 on and the hd on i get the following message

Warning the device in usb 2 (freecom hardive ntfs) does not support writing data.You can only use the file browser to access tracks on this device.

What does this mean?
Is this why nothimg is stored on the crate\playlist that i have previously made up?

Can you help me out please

The problem you describe occurs when using file browser on the Cortex. However, all my drives are NTFS, and I can do anything except write to them with the Cortex. I don't have to search in file browser. Ah. The light's just come on. Have you created the necessary database with the Numark software? Without that I think you can only use file browser. I run mine in NTFS so that it doesn't corrupt data in the case of a power cut. Vectis will know the answer to this.


Edit. I note the Numark forum is still down.

Vectis
15-12-2008, 10:50 PM
I recently bought my self a brand new D2 Director to use for digital djing.My question to you fellow D2 user is this

1) what file system are you useing on your external hard drive?

I am useing a freecom hardrive with the Fat 32 file system but when loading tracks from player a to b i get a slight blitch in the music that is playing in side a.(ie you have a track playing in side a but now want to cue up side b,when i have selected my track from the crate and press to b the music that is playing out from side a gets a slight blich).

I contacted Numark today and they say its the hardrive file system that causing that!

2) i also have another freecom hardrive which is formatted in ntfs.The proble that i have with this is it does not seem to store any information after i switch the hd of.

When i first switch the D2 on and the hd on i get the following message

Warning the device in usb 2 (freecom hardive ntfs) does not support writing data.You can only use the file browser to access tracks on this device.

What does this mean?
Is this why nothimg is stored on the crate\playlist that i have previously made up?

Can you help me out please


My advice? Not just as a digital DJ of 5+ years but as an IT bod of 25+...

Firstly make sure the d2's firmware is the latest version.

Then rethink how you want to use the d2/HDD combination such that you use NTFS rather than FAT. FAT is bad news, especially on big drives over 32GB, from the point of view of stability and ease of corruption through power outages, accidental disconnects etc.. If you want the full technical explanation I can forward you a recent PM I wrote to another forum member who was having trouble.

NTFS cannot be written to by the d2, so if you want to use the Numark database tools you'll need to generate them on a Windows PC with the HDD connected. This explains the 'errors' you get when plugging in an NTFS drive.

I modified my way of working thus:

Use an NTFS drive for the d2 with two master directories - one with the few hundred or so tracks that satisfy 80% of your average gig - therefore with folder names such as '70s Disco', '80s Electro', '90s Trance' - and the other with artists sorted by alphabet so for example A -> Abba -> Dancing Queen.mp3

Then I bought a couple of 4GB USB memory sticks formatted FAT and use these for any volatile content such as playlists for upcoming gigs, plus any recent tracks downloaded. 4GB goes a long way and means I only need to "consolidate" about once a year.

I DON'T use the Numark management software nor do I even use a keyboard. All the tracks I need are only 2 or 3 directories deep and are so logically sorted that I rarely struggle remembering where they are. Crate does me quite nicely.

System is steady as a rock and I've not lost a disk to corruption since moving from laptop to d2 as my primary playout.

Excalibur
15-12-2008, 11:07 PM
There you are look, the full unexpurgated from the Master. ;) I do something like that with the Cortex, but not as well or efficiently. And how Vectis gets away without a keyboard is beyond me ( and probably Rob ;)
As a fully qualified Numpty, I just use the string search, which works very well. If I were computer savvy, and starting again, I'd tag with scrupulous efficiency, and organise the folders more, rather than just letting them happen.

soundmaster mobile disco
15-12-2008, 11:14 PM
Hi Vectis how does this explaian the blitches in my sound when useing a ntfs hardive compared to no blitches when using a fat 32 hardrive?

Can it be the processer in the D2 cpu thats faulty?

Excalibur
15-12-2008, 11:20 PM
Hi Vectis how does this explaian the blitches in my sound when useing a ntfs hardive compared to no blitches when using a fat 32 hardrive?

Can it be the processer in the D2 cpu thats faulty?

Unlikely I feel. I think I got it right and Vectis certainly did, it's because you need to connect the drive to a PC, and install the Numark software. This will allow you the D2 to find tracks without thinking as hard, and pausing. The same thing happens if you ask the Cortex to use File Browser, rather than the search facility.

Vectis
15-12-2008, 11:26 PM
Hi Vectis how does this explaian the blitches in my sound when useing a ntfs hardive compared to no blitches when using a fat 32 hardrive?

Can it be the processer in the D2 cpu thats faulty?


I've only experienced this with an old WD hard drive which was spinning down every couple of minutes... a d2 firmware update soon fixed this which is why I suggested doing the firmware.

FAT drives have a single file access table (index if you like) and on big drives > 32GB it can take an age for the disk heads to zip across to the index to find out where to locate your file, then go back and find the file. It's probably these 'seek' delays that are causing the glitch. NTFS drives have multiple copies of the fat scattered along the disk at regular intervals and only one is updated at any time (hence NTFS's ability to better suffer outages) BUT it means seek times are greatly improved.

I'll wager your FAT HDD is quite big, yes? Several hundred gigs? FAT32 was only really designed for disks up to about 64GB - in fact in Windows you can't natively format one bigger than 32GB because Microsoft don't recommend you use them that size due mainly to the inefficiencies and increased possibility of corruption.

Excalibur
15-12-2008, 11:46 PM
I've only experienced this with an old WD hard drive which was spinning down every couple of minutes... a d2 firmware update soon fixed this which is why I suggested doing the firmware.

FAT drives have a single file access table (index if you like) and on big drives > 32GB it can take an age for the disk heads to zip across to the index to find out where to locate your file, then go back and find the file. It's probably these 'seek' delays that are causing the glitch. NTFS drives have multiple copies of the fat scattered along the disk at regular intervals and only one is updated at any time (hence NTFS's ability to better suffer outages) BUT it means seek times are greatly improved.

I'll wager your FAT HDD is quite big, yes? Several hundred gigs? FAT32 was only really designed for disks up to about 64GB - in fact in Windows you can't natively format one bigger than 32GB because Microsoft don't recommend you use them that size due mainly to the inefficiencies and increased possibility of corruption.

Vectis, I hesitate to cast doubt on your ability, but isn't Soundmaster experiencing the reverse of what you suggest, ie long seek times with NTFS? :confused: That's why I reckon there's some ( Numark?) software missing.

Vectis
16-12-2008, 12:02 AM
Vectis, I hesitate to cast doubt on your ability, but isn't Soundmaster experiencing the reverse of what you suggest, ie long seek times with NTFS? :confused: That's why I reckon there's some ( Numark?) software missing.

That's not how I read post #1 :confused:

Excalibur
16-12-2008, 12:09 AM
That's not how I read post #1 :confused:

Vectis, I humbly apologise for ever doubting you, I'll shut up now! :o :o

deltic
16-12-2008, 12:14 PM
not really getting my head round this,i have no problem with my d2 and i use large fat formatted drives. if i use a drive formatted ntfs it will only let me use file browser to find tracks and is pretty slow to load them hence why i use fat32.

my question would be if you can't use librarian on an ntfs drive what do you use to build library and seek tables?

spin mobile disco
16-12-2008, 01:41 PM
The problem is how the files are stored on the file system.
When storing in ntfs format you can have all your music in 1 big folder even as the root folder if you wish with no issues.
owever on a fat based system more than 1000 files in one folder causes causes this glitch. I have replicated this glitch myself in testing to find out how to fix it.
If you wish to stay with fat system then you have to split your music down into smaller folders of about 500 songs in each this solves the problem. Or format in ntfs and that will solve it anyway but you cannot save crate info or cue points.

Also worth mentioning the smaller the cache on your drive and slower the spin speed these can make a big difference as well with performance.


p.s you use librarian software on your pc to create seek tables on the drive then plug drive back into D2 that is how you use the full function of device.

deltic
16-12-2008, 02:00 PM
think i will just stick to fat32 everything works,if it ain't broke don't fix it

Excalibur
16-12-2008, 02:02 PM
think i will just stick to fat32 everything works,if it ain't broke don't fix it

And I will stick to NTFS, for the same reason. Safety. I don't store cue points, and if I want a playlist, I'm likely to put it on a memory stick, as I have recently done with Xmas background music.

CRAZY K
16-12-2008, 02:37 PM
And I will stick to NTFS, for the same reason. Safety. I don't store cue points, and if I want a playlist, I'm likely to put it on a memory stick, as I have recently done with Xmas background music.

Agreed Peter, all this technical stuff is making my head spin at the speed of a hard drive. 7200 RPM:eek:

I have a basic Cortex, a basic 320gb Freecom hard drive and no play list or cue points ( no questions over that please Ive already been there)

I just look for the tracks by string search.

Dead easy--never ever had a problem or a glitch ( maybe one where I put a dodgy file on the HD which Cortex understandably didnt like )

Us simpletons seem to lead a charmed life ---eh Peter?

:D :D :D

CRAZY K

Excalibur
16-12-2008, 02:45 PM
Agreed Peter, all this technical stuff is making my head spin at the speed of a hard drive. 7200 RPM:eek:

I have a basic Cortex, a basic 320gb Freecom hard drive and no play list or cue points ( no questions over that please Ive already been there)

I just look for the tracks by string search.

Dead easy--never ever had a problem or a glitch ( maybe one where I put a dodgy file on the HD which Cortex understandably didnt like )

Us simpletons seem to lead a charmed life ---eh Peter?

:D :D :D

CRAZY K

I like simple. ;) :D :D :D :D I can do simple.

Jiggles
16-12-2008, 04:45 PM
Did i speak to you on the phone about this :D Stick with NTFS and life will become easy :D

CRAZY K
16-12-2008, 05:00 PM
I like simple. ;) :D :D :D :D I can do simple.

Me too

CRAZY K

rob1963
16-12-2008, 11:20 PM
And how Vectis gets away without a keyboard is beyond me ( and probably Rob ;)

Never a truer word spoken

It's so much faster using the keyboard.

:shrug:

CRAZY K
17-12-2008, 11:02 AM
Never a truer word spoken

It's so much faster using the keyboard.

:shrug:

Your also not wearing out physical moving parts on the D2--keyboards are much cheaper to replace.

CRAZY K

fusionmtx
31-01-2009, 05:22 AM
i have the D2 and contacting numark is impossible so maybe you all can help me......whenever i play a track the bpm changes throwing my mixes off and im really about to return it unless someone can tell me how to fix this. Let me know what you need to know as far as hard drive and all that good stuff


Thanks

Excalibur
31-01-2009, 11:13 AM
i have the D2 and contacting numark is impossible so maybe you all can help me......whenever i play a track the bpm changes throwing my mixes off and im really about to return it unless someone can tell me how to fix this. Let me know what you need to know as far as hard drive and all that good stuff


Thanks

Ahem. Before anybody else says this, please introduce yourself in the Newbies section, it's a good idea.

Vectis and Rob, all yours.
PS. Numark forum still down for maintenance? :confused: ;) :p :p Cortex are still talking to us. ( For now. It may perhaps disappear? )

Vectis
31-01-2009, 11:21 AM
please introduce yourself in the Newbies section


:agree:

Have you used the Librarian software to build a detailed index of the tracks you're playing out, or are you just playing them 'on-the-fly' and expecting the unit to somehow anticipate what's about to happen further downstream?

If its the latter, you need to do the former.

There are very very few tracks out there with a consistent BPM anyway, hence the Tap buttons which ought to help a little in an on-the-fly situation.

Excalibur
31-01-2009, 12:23 PM
:agree:

Have you used the Librarian software to build a detailed index of the tracks you're playing out, or are you just playing them 'on-the-fly' and expecting the unit to somehow anticipate what's about to happen further downstream?

If its the latter, you need to do the former.

There are very very few tracks out there with a consistent BPM anyway, hence the Tap buttons which ought to help a little in an on-the-fly situation.

As usual the Cortex has a similar feature. It's the "Smack the blasted thing repeatedly in desperation " button. :D :D

ppentertainments
31-01-2009, 01:35 PM
As usual the Cortex has a similar feature. It's the "Smack the blasted thing repeatedly in desperation " button. :D :D
Only one button - mine has about 6 for this function :D :D

fusionmtx
31-01-2009, 08:03 PM
:agree:

Have you used the Librarian software to build a detailed index of the tracks you're playing out, or are you just playing them 'on-the-fly' and expecting the unit to somehow anticipate what's about to happen further downstream?

If its the latter, you need to do the former.

There are very very few tracks out there with a consistent BPM anyway, hence the Tap buttons which ought to help a little in an on-the-fly situation.

yes i did it all with the librarian software the bpm stays still while playing the track for a couple of seconds and constantly changes like lets say i start playing its at 128bpm within seconds its changing from 127.4 to 128.5 and i cant keep up with keeping everything mixing, ive never seen anything like this before

Corabar Steve
01-02-2009, 10:10 AM
fusionmtx, are you going to bother introducing yourself as previously suggested in both this thread & by PM?

One Vision
01-02-2009, 01:58 PM
yes i did it all with the librarian software the bpm stays still while playing the track for a couple of seconds and constantly changes like lets say i start playing its at 128bpm within seconds its changing from 127.4 to 128.5 and i cant keep up with keeping everything mixing, ive never seen anything like this before

I cant see what the problem is there, that's not really any significant change in beat.
I don't really beat match but I would say the majority of tracks don't have a continuous beat, I guess that's the reason for the pitch sliders

spin mobile disco
01-02-2009, 03:35 PM
The reson for it is because the numark is very accurate, when you have the bpm added by either the numark software or the mixmeister software the numark displays exactly what the beat is actually doing. Besides .5 of a bpm off shouldnt make much of a difference as it would take at least 4 seconds to drift off beat at that variation.

fusionmtx
01-02-2009, 05:18 PM
** and no i shouldn't have to introduce myself to get help on a forum, i am only trying to get help on this one issue, so please stop Pm'ing me and constantly asking me......I don't harass the members on the Forum that i run to introduce themselves, so please stop.....K thanks

Solitaire Events Ltd
01-02-2009, 05:51 PM
i

** and no i shouldn't have to introduce myself to get help on a forum, i am only trying to get help on this one issue, so please stop Pm'ing me and constantly asking me......I don't harass the members on the Forum that i run to introduce themselves, so please stop.....K thanks

Then you are on the wrong forum.

Politeness costs nothing.

Vectis
01-02-2009, 06:07 PM
** and no i shouldn't have to introduce myself to get help on a forum, i am only trying to get help on this one issue, so please stop Pm'ing me and constantly asking me......I don't harass the members on the Forum that i run to introduce themselves, so please stop.....K thanks

Ah, well, in that case, as a d2 veteran of some 2 years with several hundred live performance hours under my belt I shan't be offering any more help on this matter.


Next!

Excalibur
01-02-2009, 06:13 PM
** and no i shouldn't have to introduce myself to get help on a forum, i am only trying to get help on this one issue, so please stop Pm'ing me and constantly asking me......I don't harass the members on the Forum that i run to introduce themselves, so please stop.....K thanks


Then you are on the wrong forum.

Politeness costs nothing.

A point I regularly make, and I would suggest that adhering to the reasonable and sensible practices on here might get better results than needlessly annoying the very people on here best placed to answer your query. As to saying you're only coming on here to get advice on one thing, rather than playing a full part in the forum is also counter productive. I suspect I am not in the minority on this. ;) We're a friendly lot here, but we like good manners.


Ah, well, in that case, as a d2 veteran of some 2 years with several hundred live performance hours under my belt I shan't be offering any more help on this matter.


Next!
See, what did I tell you. ;)
As a Cortex user, with several hundred performance minutes under my belt, I shall also not be making my totally useless knowledge available. ;)

Disco Leisure UK
01-02-2009, 08:32 PM
i'll take my question elsewhere


And this guy is going to TRY and run a business with an attitude like that?? I have always believed that us jocks always stick together, you never know when you may have to call on one especially for top advice!!...;)

Excalibur
01-02-2009, 08:44 PM
i'll take my question elsewhere

I'd suggest a llitle more politeness would get a better response. ;)


And this guy is going to TRY and run a business with an attitude like that?? I have always believed that us jocks always stick together, you never know when you may have to call on one especially for top advice!!...;)

Or a pair of Class-D cabs. See below.
http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=18290

Disco Leisure UK
01-02-2009, 09:36 PM
I'd suggest a llitle more politeness would get a better response. ;)



Or a pair of Class-D cabs. See below.
http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=18290


I was reading that the other day pete!, just proves my point that one day we may need someone....just like you as you did by helping the poor guy out!...:D :D

Solitaire Events Ltd
01-02-2009, 09:47 PM
And this guy is going to TRY and run a business with an attitude like that?? I have always believed that us jocks always stick together, you never know when you may have to call on one especially for top advice!!...;)

I will answer your email tomorrow....and no problem, I can send what you asked to see. ;)

Disco Leisure UK
01-02-2009, 10:10 PM
I will answer your email tomorrow....and no problem, I can send what you asked to see. ;)

Cheers Darren....

Corabar Steve
02-02-2009, 08:49 AM
** and no i shouldn't have to introduce myself to get help on a forum, i am only trying to get help on this one issue, so please stop Pm'ing me and constantly asking me......I don't harass the members on the Forum that i run to introduce themselves, so please stop.....K thanks

1 PM (which incidentally was sent to the other 5 or so members who also posted without introduction on the same day as you did) & 1 request in this thread doesn't really constitute "constantly asking" you, now does it? (although if you did actually bother reading the forum rules before posting as you are supposed to do, you would see the following.....
27. Instructions by the Moderators and Administrators must be followed. in case you hadn't realised, I am one of the site admins & if you had done what I asked in the PM, I wouldn't have needed to repeat it in public on this thread)



We try to encourage politeness & "netiquette" on this forum, as we have found that other members usually respond more favourably to somebody who has actually bothered to take the time to introduce themselves, as opposed to a jumped up little keyboard warrior, who thinks they can treat the place like they own it on their first day here.

Here's the deal, you don't tell us how to run this forum, we won't tell you how to run yours (what is it by the way? anything any of us are likely to have heard of?). I can't see why I'm bothering to tell you this, coz with an attitude like yours, you aren't going to be around for long anyway.



Sorry for taking the thread off topic guys.

djqacy
30-04-2009, 07:14 AM
Hello, back to the topic again.

At the moment im using:
1. An external usb HD seagate inside 120GB IDE
2. An external usb HD seagate inside 160GB SATA

I have been using the since May 2007 with no problems at all.

Andreas - DJQA