View Full Version : Limited company or sole trader?
Moved from another thread to keep it on topic.
Admin.
When i first set up the company i always said to myself one day when im older and had enuff id pass the company on to my kids to keep it a family biz and set my kid(s) up for future but now i just dont know.
Ross
A couple of points.
(1) I thought you were a sole trader
(2) You talk as if this was years & years ago, you're only 18...
OllieJames
02-01-2009, 04:01 PM
Ross
A couple of points.
(1) I thought you were a sole trader
(2) You talk as if this was years & years ago, you're only 18...
I call mine a company but i'm a sole trader... out of interest what should i be calling it if it's not a 'company' :o :D
I call mine a company but i'm a sole trader... out of interest what should i be calling it if it's not a 'company' :o :D
A business, a hobby, Fred, Shiela, whatever...
It's not a company unless it is registered at Companies House. Too many people seem unaware of that very simple fact.
I call mine a company but i'm a sole trader... out of interest what should i be calling it if it's not a 'company' :o :D
A business, or partnership if more people than yourself are involved.
Mark Wild
02-01-2009, 04:21 PM
A business, a hobby, Fred, Shiela, whatever...
It's not a company unless it is registered at Companies House. Too many people seem unaware of that very simple fact.
A registered company could also call themselves, a business, a hobby, Fred, Shiela, whatever. In some circumstances there really isn't much difference between the two.
Shakermaker Promotions
02-01-2009, 04:35 PM
A1 - I call myself a company, so what!?? I am a sole trader too.
Excalibur
02-01-2009, 04:37 PM
I do agree though that if you don't enjoy it, don't do it. It is stupid to do something that you don't like doing. Your busy December and stress (sorry, that made me laugh) may well have put you off but come on.... I have been out working almost every night in December and on occasions, I was ill too but it's my job and a job I love. Stress?....Stress is getting up every morning and going into a job you hate just because you need to be working to pay the bills....that's stress!! Ok, it's hard going out every night DJing and trying to put on a happy face when you are knackered or in the vacinity of countless drunks etc...but it isn't stress.
Have some time off, go travelling if you want but I bet you will be raring to go back behind the decks before long.
Now there are some of the most truthful words we've had on here for a long while. ;)
A1 - I call myself a company, so what!?? I am a sole trader too.
Gary, I don't understand what you mean by "so what" (assuming you take your business seriously). It's not hard to grasp - is your business registered at Companies House?
You can be a sole trader in business as well as a partner in a business, as well as a director/secretary of a limited company - none of these positions are mutually exclusive.
If a business is not registered at Companies House, and you refer to it as a "company", this is inaccurate and misleading.
Dynamic Entertainment
02-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I can understand why theres confusion regarding "companies". Im currently a sole-trader but the amount of times ive been asked for my "Companies Name" when filling out forms for adverts.
Ross - I remember 18 (only 6 years ago - God) I was tying down 3 jobs at your age. A day job from 9-5, then a chef (what i originally trained in) from 5-30 to 10.30ish with the cheffing on a saturday and sunday daytime and djing weekend evenings. I simpathise with you loosing your girlfriend but try having birds who wouldnt stick around the minute they found out about work. If your alos looking at loosing the day job them the disco may be your only source of income.
Anyway, would you like some cheese to go with that whine? :D :D :D
Shakermaker Promotions
02-01-2009, 05:06 PM
"Do I take my business seriously?" - Yes, of course I do!!
I was under the impression that I WAS listed as a company at Companies House but having just looked, it seems I am not so I do not know what has happened there.
"It's not hard to grasp.." - Please do not treat me like a child. That's very patronising! I know what the score is don't you worry about that, there has obviously been some kind of muck up along the way which I will be sorting out as soon as I can.
As for "innacurate & misleading".... that is NOT intentional in the slightest.
Danno13
02-01-2009, 05:09 PM
"Do I take my business seriously?" - Yes, of course I do!!
I was under the impression that I WAS listed as a company at Companies House but having just looked, it seems I am not so I do not know what has happened there.
You'd only be listed on companies house if you're a Limited company...
"I was under the impression that I WAS listed as a company at Companies House but having just looked, it seems I am not so I do not know what has happened there.
Quite simply, absolutely nothing has happened. Once a company is registered, it doesn't "disappear". You may have registered your trading name with some registry or other and be confusing the two distinctly different actions.
Please do not treat me like a child. That's very patronising!
I didn't and it wasn't - lighten up, matey :)
there has obviously been some kind of muck up along the way which I will be sorting out as soon as I can.
Let us know the outcome Gary, it will be interesting.
As for "innacurate & misleading".... that is NOT intentional in the slightest.
Intentional or otherwise, irrespective. There are many sole traders whom incorrectly refer to their businesses as "companies", possibly because they believe this portrays a more professional image and that it will gain them more business. I came across one a couple of weeks ago on another forum pretending to be a PLC.
Mods - apologies if this discussion re Companies/Sole Traders has hijacked the original thread - perhaps it can be broken off into a separate thread?
Shakermaker Promotions
02-01-2009, 05:16 PM
Well, that clears that up then, thanks Danno.
I am not a limited company as yet and may not be.
SO...I will STILL call myself a company because in my eyes that's what I am. I am NOT a limited company. If I go above the earnings amount then obviously I will register as a limited company.
I'm sure someone will have a moan about that!
Solitaire Events Ltd
02-01-2009, 05:18 PM
If a business is not registered at Companies House, and you refer to it as a "company", this is inaccurate and misleading.
Though what you say is true Tony, most people would call it their company, just because that's the way they see it, rather than looking at the legal implications.
I used to call myself the proprietor of the company before I incorporated.
I am not a limited company as yet and may not be.
SO...I will STILL call myself a company because in my eyes that's what I am. I am NOT a limited company.
If it makes you happy to pretend Gary, no one is stopping you, just advising.
If I go above the earnings amount then obviously I will register as a limited company.
What is "the earnings amount" Gary? This is a new one on me! Please explain.
Solitaire Events Ltd
02-01-2009, 05:20 PM
If I go above the earnings amount then obviously I will register as a limited company.
There is no 'earning amount' to go above Gary, only a VAT threshold and you don't have to incorporate for that.
Shakermaker Promotions
02-01-2009, 05:26 PM
A1 - I'll tell you what has happened (or I think what has happened). About 2 years ago I remember an enquiry coming in which I thought was a bit of a wind up, one of those calls that you KNOW is another competitor (if you want to call it that) trying to find out information etc (comparing prices etc).. One of those occasions when you KNOW that they KNOW you KNOW too but you treat every call as professionally as you can without saying "Come on, stop mucking about" just incase there is that slight chance that you may have got it wrong.
Anyway, the caller asked loads of questions etc which was fine, I answered them all as best I could and was as helpful as I could be too but then the call seemed to go downhill rapidly and the tone of the caller got aggressive(ish). They asked me about PLI & PAT, no problem. They also TOLD me that if I were to DJ at their wedding (this was the function) then I would need a CRB certificate / clearance because there were going to be children present there too. I asked if they would be supervised and the caller said that it didn't matter whether they were supervised or not, I would still need to have it. I knew the caller was being awkward on purpose (the tone and manner in which they were speaking to me wasn't nice at all), so I made my point clearly and also mentioned that I was not available on the date required as I was already booked. Then came the worst bit of the call.... She said to me that I wasn't a legit trader because I was not listed at Companies House. I actually said that I was terminating the call and put the phone down and then spoke to my wife who confirmed at the time what A1 has just said. It all comes back to me now.
I am pretty sure I asked on this forum and another one about the CRB situation and I am pretty sure also that I contacted Companies House by email to find out the situation there too although I am not 100% sure.
Apologies for the long post but I wanted to get my point across clearly.
soundtracker
02-01-2009, 05:27 PM
OK a little clarification here, there is no problem in calling yourself a company. A company is defined as any entity engaging in business, such as a proprietorship, partnership, or corporation.
A limited company however is a totally different kettle of fish. This would entail registering a memorandum and articles of association at Companies house, paying the requisite fee, and them checking to ensure that the name you wish to use, is actually available to you. The company name would then be for instance "Shakermaker Ltd" This would have the effect of limiting your liability by law, and creating a seperate legal entity.
The need to establish a Limited Company is not strictly speaking governed by income level, and for most small businesses is not necessary, any change from sole trader, partnership etc to Limited Company should be thoroughly discussed with a qualified accountant before being entered into.
Solitaire Events Ltd
02-01-2009, 05:30 PM
OK a little clarification here, there is no problem in calling yourself a company. A company is defined as any entity engaging in business, such as a proprietorship, partnership, or corporation.
A limited company however is a totally different kettle of fish. This would entail registering a memorandum and articles of association at Companies house, paying the requisite fee, and them checking to ensure that the name you wish to use, is actually available to you. The company name would then be for instance "Shakermaker PLC" This would have the effect of limiting your liability by law, and creating a seperate legal entity.
The need to establish a PLC is not strictly speaking governed by income level, and for most small businesses is not necessary, any change from sole trader, partnership etc to PLC should be thoroughly discussed with a qualified accountant before being entered into.
Shouldn't PLC be LTD Pete?
PLC is a company that has floated on the stock market is it not?
Shakermaker Promotions
02-01-2009, 05:31 PM
A1 - There you go again... "PRETEND"... Do you not see what a wind up that is? I am trying hard to keep my mouth shut here as there are a few things that I could say about the quality of customer service of some COMPANIES, limited or not, who I have had the 'pleasure' of speaking to over the past year when doing some 'Market Research' and some (very close to home) who I have seen operate in the flesh.
I'll keep quiet for now though as I really don't want to get into a slanging match at the moment.
As for the 'earnings' comment, I was under the impression that once you got to a certain figure, you either had to or should really declare yourself as a limited company?
soundtracker
02-01-2009, 05:32 PM
Shouldn't PLC be LTD Pete?
PLC is a company that has floated on the stock market is it not?
Sorry Daz, your right, should have let the Jack Daniels wear off first! Now amended!
Solitaire Events Ltd
02-01-2009, 05:32 PM
As for the 'earnings' comment, I was under the impression that once you got to a certain figure, you either had to or should really declare yourself as a limited company?
Nope.
Shakermaker Promotions
02-01-2009, 05:36 PM
Thanks, at least that's cleared that up.
there are a few things that I could say about the quality of customer service of some COMPANIES, limited or not, who I have had the 'pleasure' of speaking to over the past year when doing some 'Market Research' and some (very close to home) who I have seen operate in the flesh.
I'm sure there are Gary, as indeed within many industries, however I don't believe there is any correlation between the legal status of a business and its customer service offering.
Some people may expect a more personal service from a small business than a larger entity, other people may expect a more professional service with better guarantees from a larger entity than a sole trader. However, that does not mean a sole trader cannot offer just as professional service as a company, nor does it mean a multi-op company cannot offer the same or indeed a better level of personal service than an individual, as the company may have more skilled resources in different areas of their business.
I'll keep quiet for now though as I really don't want to get into a slanging match at the moment.
I thought the purpose of this forum was to promote healthy, professional discussion. Opinions will differ - that's healthy - however let's keep it professional. I have never believed in putting individuals or other businesses down and that is the work ethic I promote within my businesses.
As for the 'earnings' comment, I was under the impression that once you got to a certain figure, you either had to or should really declare yourself as a limited company?
As has already been stated, there is no legal requirement to do this. However, as I'm sure the other multi-ops on here will agree, there comes a time when it is prudent to incorporate - a good accountant will advise on this better than I ever could.
Dynamic Entertainment
02-01-2009, 06:28 PM
I thought one of the better reasons to register was that you gat a better tax break than a sole-trader?
Solitaire Events Ltd
02-01-2009, 06:29 PM
I thought one of the better reasons to register was that you gat a better tax break than a sole-trader?
:whistle:
Dynamic Entertainment
02-01-2009, 06:33 PM
:whistle:
Eh, thats basically how my accountants selling it. :confused:
OllieJames
02-01-2009, 06:53 PM
Who would get mislead by someone calling their 'business' or whatever you want to call it a company? A member of the public is more than likely unaware about Companies House, and will not know the difference between a company and a sole trader anyway. You either know the differences or you don't.
Personally, i find it more natural calling my service a company, quite obviously from this thread am i being 'incorrect'.
Nevermind :)
Personally, i find it more natural calling my service a company, quite obviously from this thread am i being 'incorrect'.
Nevermind :)
Ollie, as you are a 15 year old schoolboy, surely a "hobby" would be the best description for your activities?
That's certainly how it was many moons ago, when I was your age.
OllieJames
02-01-2009, 07:03 PM
Ollie, as you are a 15 year old schoolboy, surely a "hobby" would be the best description for your activities?
That's certainly how it was many moons ago, when I was your age.
Yes, but if you were 15, would you put hobby on your website? :confused:
CRAZY K
02-01-2009, 07:16 PM
I personally thought the only general commonly used categories recognised by the Inland Revenue were---
Sole Trader One man band unlimited liability
Partnership (two or more persons up to a stipulated maximum) unlimited liability
Limited Partnership by guarantee
Limited Company either limited by guarantee or shares registered at Companies House
PLC
CRAZY K
Yes, but if you were 15, would you put hobby on your website? :confused:
How times have changed - when I were a wee lad, I had to do paper round for pocket money...:(
On a serious note Ollie, I would refer to the activity as a "business". Then, when people enquire about you, your age and your services in more detail, they are likely to see and respect you as an enterprising young person as opposed to a kid pretending to be running a company in between school and homework.
Just my 2p.
I personally thought the only general commonly used categories recognised by the Inland Revenue were---
Sole Trader One man band unlimited liability
Partnership (two or more persons up to a stipulated maximum) unlimited liability
Limited Partnership by guarantee
Limited Company either limited by guarantee or shares registered at Companies House
PLC
CRAZY K
:approve: spot on, Alan.
OllieJames
02-01-2009, 07:19 PM
How times have changed - when I were a wee lad, I had to do paper round for pocket money...:(
On a serious note Ollie, I would refer to the activity as a "business". Then, when people enquire about you, your age and your services in more detail, they are likely to see and respect you as an enterprising young person as opposed to a kid pretending to be running a company in between school and homework.
Just my 2p.
Yes, i'm 15, but i'm not just some lad that does it for a laugh, i enjoy doing it and have an interest in music, sound (hence i work in a recording studio) and lighting. So hopefully people enquiring will recognise that :)
Thanks A1 :)
CRAZY K
02-01-2009, 07:54 PM
:approve: spot on, Alan.
Like my Calling Tony--
its a must:D :D :D
HNY
Alan
CRAZY K
rob1963
02-01-2009, 09:11 PM
OK a little clarification here, there is no problem in calling yourself a company. A company is defined as any entity engaging in business, such as a proprietorship, partnership, or corporation.
Spot on!
What does it matter?
There are many sole traders whom incorrectly refer to their businesses as "companies", possibly because they believe this portrays a more professional image and that it will gain them more business.
Sure, and there are many businesses who register as a limited company purely because they think it portrays a more professional image & will gain them more business.
At the end of the day, clients probably don't give a stuff whether or not you're a limited company. Lets face it, virtually anyone can form a limited company for around 50 quid. All that matters is the service you offer & what you charge, which has no connection with your formal business status.
Solitaire Events Ltd
02-01-2009, 10:21 PM
At the end of the day, clients probably don't give a stuff whether or not you're a limited company.
And you'd know this how, exactly?
rob1963
02-01-2009, 10:36 PM
And you'd know this how, exactly?
Only through my own experience over the last 25 years, Darren.
Not one enquirer has ever asked if I'm a limited company.
That suggests to me that they don't care.
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Only through my own experience over the last 25 years, Darren.
Not one enquirer has ever asked if I'm a limited company.
That suggests to me that they don't care.
And had any asked if you were a sole trader?
Perhaps they has done their homework beforehand.
Many of my customers prefer the 'backup' of a company.
wensleydale
03-01-2009, 10:22 AM
And had any asked if you were a sole trader?
Perhaps they has done their homework beforehand.
Many of my customers prefer the 'backup' of a company.
but being limited doesnt guarantee any back up does it?
as someone mentioned before you can become a ltd co for about £50.
rob1963
03-01-2009, 10:23 AM
And had any asked if you were a sole trader?
None at all.
Like I said, they probably don't care.
Many of my customers prefer the 'backup' of a company.
Fair enough.
Out of interest, what backup does a company have that a sole trader or partnership doesn't?
CRAZY K
03-01-2009, 12:51 PM
None at all.
Like I said, they probably don't care.
Fair enough.
Out of interest, what backup does a company have that a sole trader or partnership doesn't?
I would say its the organisational ability of the business that matters not what its called.
Im a sole trader but have instant access to more Barn Dance Callers for back up than virtually anybody in my specialist field.
I must admit that is sometimes helpful for customers who are concerned,
I had one like that recently.
CRAZY K
rob1963
03-01-2009, 01:03 PM
I would say its the organisational ability of the business that matters not what its called.
And I would say it's the service provided by the business that matters, not it's business status.
After all, If I wanted to, I could become a limited company tomorrow (and for very little cost)...but my service & back up would be exactly the same as it is now!
:D :D :D
After all, If I wanted to, I could become a limited company tomorrow (and for very little cost)
Rob, whilst the initial formation cost may be negligible, the ongoing costs, in particular annual accountancy costs, would most likely be significantly larger than those you may currently pay as a sole trader.
rob1963
03-01-2009, 01:16 PM
Rob, whilst the initial formation cost may be negligible, the ongoing costs, in particular annual accountancy costs, would most likely be significantly larger than those you may currently pay as a sole trader.
That's fair comment...but at least I could go around telling everyone I was a company director!
:D
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-01-2009, 02:16 PM
That's fair comment...but at least I could go around telling everyone I was a company director!
:D
People would still know what you really are though.
Corabar Steve
03-01-2009, 03:16 PM
http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1862.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-438.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)http://planetsmilies.net/vicious-smiley-1862.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)
rob1963
03-01-2009, 03:38 PM
People would still know what you really are though.
:rofl:
Mark Wild
03-01-2009, 04:00 PM
To be honest i'd feel a bit of a knob saying "I'm the company director"
To be honest i'd feel a bit of a knob saying "I'm the company director"
I think that's what Darren & Steve were hinting at :cool:
Sorry Arthur :p :rofl:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.