Reducing fee?

[Silver]

Okay we all know 'things' are getting tight.

Assume you are doing a weekly Saturday residency in a pub and the landlord approaches you saying "I know you do a really good pro job and I really don't want to lose you but trade is down and numbers seem to be dwindling. I need you to take a 20% fee cut, is that okay?"

If you say yes, then you still have a job, if you say know, then it's a free Saturday night for you!
e.g.
£150 down to £125
£120 down to £100
£90 down to £70
or whatever your local rate is

So, would you or wouldn't you?

Me? I would take the drop, on the proviso it went back up when business picks up.

[Javlingames]

not sure if i want to answer this question on a public forum, you never know who is reading it!!

[Silver]

not sure if i want to answer this question on a public forum, you never know who is reading it!!
Fair comment, too be honest I hadn't thought of that point. Delete if you feel mods :)

[funkymike]

Okay we all know 'things' are getting tight.

Assume you are doing a weekly Saturday residency in a pub and the landlord approaches you saying "I know you do a really good pro job and I really don't want to lose you but trade is down and numbers seem to be dwindling. I need you to take a 20% fee cut, is that okay?"

If you say yes, then you still have a job, if you say know, then it's a free Saturday night for you!
e.g.
£150 down to £125
£120 down to £100
£90 down to £70
or whatever your local rate is

So, would you or wouldn't you?

Me? I would take the drop, on the proviso it went back up when business picks up.

Would the landord drop the price of a pint or a meal by 20%? I think not, so why should you, I would'nt. So a so called credit cruch going on, and business's use it, to get suppliers to drop prices, extend credit terms and for getting rid of dead wood, meaning staff.

stick to yer guns:D

mike

[DJ James Lake]

I think a small amount of diplomacy would be needed. I think the saving they would gain would not make enough of a difference to them, something would have to give on your behalf to make the lower price..

I would point out to the landlord that he may have less business but your expenses have increased because of the economic climate just like his. The cost of purchasing new music and equipment price increases for example.

Point out you would have to cut back in some way and it would effect the amount of new music or equipment replacement to keep up to date which in turn could cut his trade down further and do more harm than good.

Make the point that you were actually going to have to increase prices this year, however you as a gesture of goodwill had decided to keep them the same.

At the end of the day if they want to pay less...they get less in someway or another.

If you drop your prices you will NEVER get them back up. Why would they if you have been prepared to do it for less.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I have spoken about this to the landlady of my local today. I do 2 nights a month there and they have some other stuff on too. She has said that the other stuff is going to be knocked on the head but wants to keep me but did say things are very tight at the moment. They give me work all year round and so I feel loyal to them plus I love the place. I have been going there for 22 years now.

I've said that if things do get really 'iffy' then I will obviously work with it and reduce the fee until things get better as I would rather earn something than nothing at all. She really appreciates that. We have other ideas too where I will supply the sound for their open mic nights and I said that I will do that free of charge (a couple of pints more or less) as it's a wednesday night once a month and will save them some more money.

I have no problem at all reducing my fee for regular nights at this moment in time or even a private booking simply because I would rather be working for slightly less than nothing at all. Yes, I know...we've all heard it before and read it before on here that people SHOULD stick to their guns but at this moment in time, with the economy the way it is...dare I say it...hard times for some...well, I think it needs to be done. Of course, every area is different and I must admit that I have had some bookings over the past few days, all of which have confirmed and not even mentioned the price at all. That may well change but I think at this time of the year and especially with the way things are at the moment...I thought it would be worse than that. I didn't expect the phone to ring and have been thinking up ideas of how to utilise my van during the day to get some extra cash.

Before anyone says it....I'll agree with you..we are BUSINESSES and NOT CHARITIES but if you want to stick with your pride and stick to your morals and be adamant that you will NOT go out for less than your usual fee but sat there turning work away and there's nothing coming in to back it up so in other words you aren't earning...well, if you are that comfortable that you can do that...FAIR PLAY!

I suppose another contributing factor into all of this is if you are DJing to subsidise your full time job. It shouldn't be that hard to reduce your fee in that case as you are already earning. If DJing is all you do to survive (like a lot of us on here), then I think you could probably split it right down the middle, 50/50 as to those that will reduce and those that won't. I am sure that there will also be people that will say "No way" just to keep face but reduce their fee anyway because they know it's better to be earning something rather than nothing.

If someone calls up and it's a day I'm not working and they are looking for the best price (I don't normally price match), well..I would more than likely match it at this moment in time. It sounds simple doesn't it?? ( I know it may not be) but...Dropping from (example) £300.00 to £250.00 and getting the job or sticking to the price and not getting it and ending up sitting there twiddling your thumbs??

Sorry to go on...didn't realise how long I'd been typing.

EDIT: Can I just add (well I will anyway)...The twice monthly residency that I have at the pub actually pulls people in. The last thing the landlady wants to do is drop the nights because those people won't come down. It's all well and good saying "Stick to your guns" and 9 times out of 10 I would adhere to that but the situation at this place is different in the fact that they give me loads of work but there are still people who I know that are itching to get in there and cheaper than me. The landlady sticks with me as she is a friend too. The other residencies I have, well...not the same really and I would stick to my guns with them as the work is few and far between. Once a month and that's it.

[Excalibur]

Half a loaf's better than no loaf at all.

[funkymike]

Refering to this thread and the other similer one, i can never work out pubs. Disco's and karaokes attract more people into pubs, so by cutting it down less people will go in the pub, to me its clearly a spirel down the pan, but pubs and landlords are crap at organising entertainment, i dont get it.at all.

mike

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Which is what I am saying (or trying to). In simple terms:
I do two nights a month and any special 'one offs' at my local.
They pay for sound for their Open Mic nights.
I offered to do the sound for them for free. This means that they save the money there and therefore I don't lose any money on my nights or the nights themselves. That's the deal.

[Silver]

Which is what I am saying (or trying to). In simple terms:
I do two nights a month and any special 'one offs' at my local.
They pay for sound for their Open Mic nights.
I offered to do the sound for them for free. This means that they save the money there and therefore I don't lose any money on my nights or the nights themselves. That's the deal.

Makes complete sense to me.

[Silver]

Would the landord drop the price of a pint or a meal by 20%? I think not, so why should you, I would'nt. So a so called credit cruch going on, and business's use it, to get suppliers to drop prices, extend credit terms and for getting rid of dead wood, meaning staff.

stick to yer guns:D

mike

Well they have done exactly that around here! Meals are cheaper, buy one get one free. Cheap shots, buy two glasses of wine and the rest of the bottle is yours etc. All promotions geared at trying to retain as much custom as possible.

So they are reacting to the credit crunch locally, maybe things are different were you live? http://planetsmilies.net/confused-smiley-17432.gif

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I have droped my rate in the past, but at the same time i have sat down with the owner and pointed out everything he was doing wrong (wanted to take the club in a new direction musically which would have worked, had the customers not been chavy under 25s). He listened, got his business back on track and i went back to the full rate and then some :)

[CRAZY K]

Fair comment, too be honest I hadn't thought of that point. Delete if you feel mods :)

Interesting topical point.

The problem is Entertainers are almost totally labour intensive, we dont earn a mark up on products sold like a shop or pub--we still work the same hours.

How will you know when trade and profits are better---do you get to see every nights takings and a copy of the Accounts for the pub--:D

Yeah right-so takings are up but another unexpected overhead cut the profit.

Im tweaking my quotes where I can to be a bit more competititve and including extras and incentives but not a 20 per cent price cut:eek:

CRAZY K

[Penfold42]

Half a loaf's better than no loaf at all.

Yes - but I have two kids.....half a loaf don't go far!

[Dynamic Entertainment]

How will you know when trade and profits are better---do you get to see every nights takings and a copy of the Accounts for the pub--:D

In my case, to an extent, yes. He wanted to save his business and didnt know how. I had a fair idea so it was mutually benificial :)

[DJ James Lake]

Interesting topical point.

The problem is Entertainers are almost totally labour intensive, we dont earn a mark up on products sold like a shop or pub--we still work the same hours.

How will you know when trade and profits are better---do you get to see every nights takings and a copy of the Accounts for the pub--:D

Yeah right-so takings are up but another unexpected overhead cut the profit.

CRAZY K

I totally agree and stand by my previous point once you start dropping prices its a downward spiral and you will never go back up again with that client.

[Vectis]

Half a loaf's better than no loaf at all.

Which is fine if the half a loaf you end up with doesn't cost less than the ingredients...

I had a 'reasoning session' with one of my regular venues a little while ago after the company narrowly escaped liquidation. We agreed to hold 2009's rates the same as 2008 but in return I could plug my 'private hire' services during gigs. So it's out with the banners, cards on tables, the odd announcement and so far I've picked up three bookings in three weeks for events later in the year.

[DJ INDIE]

quite right too Vectis, if pubs etc do try and knock you down (whether genuine or trying it on) there are still ways to benefit like you show - good stuff.

[wensleydale]

dont think you can have "one answer" for all on this.
it depends on other work, how much you are relying on the work, the original price and how that has changed over time, whether you could get work elsewhere, how close it is to home etc etc.

[DazzyD]

Half a loaf's better than no loaf at all.

Try telling my business partner (my dad!) this! He's just decided he wants to double our prices for this year even though I'm having trouble convincing some potential clients that our current prices offer really good value for money!


Yes - but I have two kids.....half a loaf don't go far!

I've got three and one due in March! :eek: I'll have to start my own bakery! (mind you, I was contemplating buying a bread maker - this idea looks even better now! :) )


dont think you can have "one answer" for all on this.
it depends on other work, how much you are relying on the work, the original price and how that has changed over time, whether you could get work elsewhere, how close it is to home etc etc.

:agree:

My day job is pretty secure right now (I'm a Benefits Assessor!) due the credit crunch (or "recession" as I prefer to call it!) and I don't really need to make more. However, my dad got made redundant on Christmas Eve so he wants to maximise our earnings/income. And, as the major investor in the business, he's going to need to be kept happy. Last thing I want to hear (again!) is that he's thinking of selling up.

[CRAZY K]

Try telling my business partner (my dad!) this! He's just decided he wants to double our prices for this year even though I'm having trouble convincing some potential clients that our current prices offer really good value for money!



I've got three and one due in March! :eek: I'll have to start my own bakery! (mind you, I was contemplating buying a bread maker - this idea looks even better now! :) )



:agree:

My day job is pretty secure right now (I'm a Benefits Assessor!) due the credit crunch (or "recession" as I prefer to call it!) and I don't really need to make more. However, my dad got made redundant on Christmas Eve so he wants to maximise our earnings/income. And, as the major investor in the business, he's going to need to be kept happy. Last thing I want to hear (again!) is that he's thinking of selling up.

With due respect you may have to point out that the reason your Dad got made redundant is because there is less work and money available in the economy.

Therefore increasing prices in such a downturn is unlikely to result in more business and profits--unless your only charging half what your market will pay.

I wont contact William Hills for odds on that:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[Grahame Case]

Not necessarily true Crazy -

those with money will still spend it - it is just a case of selling your services correctly.

[ppentertainments]

Not necessarily true Crazy -

those with money will still spend it - it is just a case of selling your services correctly.
True, but I think doubling or even dramatically increasing prices at the moment is a bad idea unless you are able to justify the increase in some way other than 'we need more money'.

[Grahame Case]

True, but I think doubling or even dramatically increasing prices at the moment is a bad idea unless you are able to justify the increase in some way other than 'we need more money'.

i've just bought new equipment - hence a massive price hike for me.

[ppentertainments]

i've just bought new equipment - hence a massive price hike for me.
Fair play - you have something to justify the hike.

[CRAZY K]

i've just bought new equipment - hence a massive price hike for me.

Run that past me again:confused:

CRAZY K

[Grahame Case]

vastly improved the quality of my product - in turn i can justifiably charge more. (Plus I'm fed up fighting with the big fish around here who work on "bulk")

so have changed my marketing strategy too.

[CRAZY K]

Not necessarily true Crazy -

those with money will still spend it - it is just a case of selling your services correctly.

I know--im looking for them.

They seem in short supply at the moment--:)

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

vastly improved the quality of my product - in turn i can justifiably charge more. (Plus I'm fed up fighting with the big fish around here who work on "bulk")

so have changed my marketing strategy too.

Will your customers notice? :confused: Pile it high, sell it cheap. ;) :D

[DazzyD]

With due respect you may have to point out that the reason your Dad got made redundant is because there is less work and money available in the economy.

Therefore increasing prices in such a downturn is unlikely to result in more business and profits--unless your only charging half what your market will pay.

I wont contact William Hills for odds on that:D :D :D

CRAZY K

Believe me, Alan, I've tried! I think he's just getting concerned about his investment in Lightning. We've recently upped the ante in the wedding and corporate markets and made some heavy investment (I've been doing the accounts and budgets earlier this evening and the books (and personal finances) have taken quite a hit!). We have a healthy diary for 2009 so I think he'll calm down when start to invoice people in the Spring.



Not necessarily true Crazy -

those with money will still spend it - it is just a case of selling your services correctly.

I have to disagree with you there, Grahame. People are tightening their belts right across the board. Those who have little money are looking to get better deals and those with money are being very cautious (and who can blame them?).

As for selling correctly, I funded my share in Lightning, and my vast music library, from my successful career as a salesman. I have the full set of sales skills (although I like to consider myself as an honest salesman - I can't stand blaggers who pollute the sales industry) yet some potential clients are only interested in the price. This week alone I've lost out on 2 bookings - one got a disco for £100 and the other for only £70!! :eek: I couldn't afford to charge that little!



True, but I think doubling or even dramatically increasing prices at the moment is a bad idea unless you are able to justify the increase in some way other than 'we need more money'.

The doubling of prices refers to our lowest contract of 2008 (3 hr weekly pub karaoke show for £100). Dad wants us to stick to our lowest list price which is £195. Now you will know better than most, Chris, that most clients round here won't consider paying that. So this could be the end of our regular bookings.

Now, as for justifying prices, our wedding and corporate services are set to benefit from a large investment this year. I feel the services we provide will justify our prices. However, I also feel that clients are looking to save money and it's too late when they realise that cheap isn't always best value. But, people have always been that way and they always will be.

I think it's time I looked at finding a new angle for Lightning (and I've got one or two ideas in my head already!) ;)

[CRAZY K]

vastly improved the quality of my product - in turn i can justifiably charge more. (Plus I'm fed up fighting with the big fish around here who work on "bulk")

so have changed my marketing strategy too.

I used Clives BOSE system and it sounds like this on a pro made video not on my mickey mouse camera.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jG9soIv0908&feature=channel_page


Compared to my Peavey system which sounds like this on my home made video using my mickey mouse camera

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Obb_P4_vBPM


Now could you convince a punter to pay a load more money because of the PA ?

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

I used Clives BOSE system and it sounds like this on a pro made video not on my mickey mouse camera.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jG9soIv0908&feature=channel_page


Compared to my Peavey system which sounds like this on my home made video using my mickey mouse camera

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Obb_P4_vBPM


Now could you convince a punter to pay a load more money because of the PA ?

CRAZY K

They sort of expect they'll have to when the entire back wall is obscured by Class-D cabs. ;) :D :D

[nigelwright7557]

Would the landord drop the price of a pint or a meal by 20%? I think not, so why should you, I would'nt.
mike

So you are happy to lose a regular gig ?

[Excalibur]

So you are happy to lose a regular gig ?

I think I've had enough Grolsch. Nigel's starting to make sense. :( :(

[PropellerHeadCase]

Don't worry, I'm making plans for Nigel ;)

[nigelwright7557]

Don't worry, I'm making plans for Nigel ;)

sounds like XTC to me :D

[Excalibur]

Don't worry, I'm making plans for Nigel ;)

Really? :confused: Then I'm in XTC. :coat: