Any body use these RCF 715 or 725 ?

[Skarloey]

Hi thinking about buying these speakers, not sure which ones to buy, they will be used for mobile disco work.

Anybody using these with the subs 905AS do they offer good value, punch per pound so as to speak. What's the benefit of the 1 inch tweeter over the 2 inch tweeter, I know the 2 inch is for longer throw but which one is more suitable for a mobile disco use

I will also plan to use 2 of the ART905AS subs to complement the tops.

Any advice on this would help

thanks

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Can i ask what kind of functions you are using these for? That's an awfully big budget you have for that kit!

[Tony Scott]

Hi thinking about buying these speakers, not sure which ones to buy, they will be used for mobile disco work.

Anybody using these with the subs 905AS do they offer good value, punch per pound so as to speak. What's the benefit of the 1 inch tweeter over the 2 inch tweeter, I know the 2 inch is for longer throw but which one is more suitable for a mobile disco useI will also plan to use 2 of the ART905AS subs to complement the tops.

Any advice on this would help

thanks

Most 2" compression drivers can be crossed at a lower frequency than a 1" and can reproduce certain mid-range freq's aswell as HF freq's. They are normaly a little harsher sounding IMO. A good quality 1" normally sounds smoother and brighter which would be better than a 2" for 'Mobile Disco' use.

1" & 2" drivers have the same projection(throw), it's the horn they are coupled to that gives the dispersion patterns and projection characteristics. :)

[kilmeedyman]

Interestingly, the RCF web site claims that the 2" driver (725) makes that speaker 'long throw' as opposed to the 1" (715).

Therefore, whichever is correct, Tony or RCF, the 715 wold be the preferred speaker for a mobile DJ in most circumstances.

[Skarloey]

Thanks for the help guys, I would be using the tops for normal partys/weddings up to 150-200 people, the subs for larger ballroom stuff up to 500 people, But maybe the ideal system would be 2 x 715 tops and one sub. The reason I like these units (tops) is the power to weigth ratio 750w for 18Kgs nice, is there any other brands out there offering these specs?

[Tony Scott]

Interestingly, the RCF web site claims that the 2" driver (725) makes that speaker 'long throw' as opposed to the 1" (715).

Therefore, whichever is correct, Tony or RCF, the 715 wold be the preferred speaker for a mobile DJ in most circumstances.

Mmmmm........interesting. I'm sure RCF are right, my R&D budget is about £3.26 so I can't really compete can I? :D

Having given it some thought:

The 725speaker would be long-throw because it's 2" driver will be crossed at around 800hz. This means that mid range and HF frequencies are being projected by the long throw horn.

In the 715 the mid range is being directly radiated by the short-throw mid/bass driver, only the HF freq's will be long-throw.

Therefore the 725 cabinet as a whole will be a long-throw cabinet.

It still doesn't change the fact that 1" and 2" compression drivers have the same projection(not SPL) until they are coupled with a horn. It is the horn that shapes the dispersion, projection and directivity. :)

[Tom]

I agree with what Tony has said.


Also, nothing can be "long throw". All this means high spl output.

If you put a driver in to a horn, whether it be a LF or HF driver, will increase the total output.

If bass cabs you will loose some of the bottom end but if you couple horn loaded subs together you can get the low end back again and still have a large spl.

As Tony has said, when put a horn on to a hf driver, this is what gives the spl of the driver as well what he has already stated.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Also, nothing can be "long throw". All this means high spl output.



Are you sure?

There's plenty of evidence to the contrary elsewhere.

[Adam_F]

Listening to the 725s in the showroom here the other week when RCF came in, the mids did sound quite harsh, and wouldn't be suited to fucntions rooms and standard venues because of this.

I'd say the 715s are more suited, and did sound more balanced. The 725s will be ideal for massive venues and outdoor applications.

(both were demo'd with and without subs)

[Tom]

Are you sure?

There's plenty of evidence to the contrary elsewhere.

Only going by what the pro people say on speakerplans forum.

[Skarloey]

Adam thats the kinda info I need to hear, I will of course demo them but I would like to go with some info, sounds like the 715's would work best for my kind of work

[kilmeedyman]

Also, nothing can be "long throw". All this means high spl output.

If you put a driver in to a horn, whether it be a LF or HF driver, will increase the total output.


I think you are very confused Tom.

Bose for example certainly long throw because they mainly reproduce mid and high frequencies.

Long throw is nothing at all to do with SPL (Sound Pressure Level)which is measured in Decibels (db) and is usually measured at a distance of 1m and is a measure of the loudness of a speaker.

To quote mcsquared:

In a loudspeaker system, the directivity is an indication of how directional the loudspeaker is, or to look at it another way, how effective the speaker is at taking the sound it produces and sending it in one particular direction instead of all directions. A loudspeaker that is a high directivity device is commonly called a "long throw" device. A speaker with low directivity is a "short throw" device.

This is particularly pertinent to higher frequency sounds, so is generally tied to the performance of the higher frequency systems (usually a horn).

Have a look at public address speakers - they are often a horn only and for that reason.

[nigelwright7557]

Thanks for the help guys, I would be using the tops for normal partys/weddings up to 150-200 people, the subs for larger ballroom stuff up to 500 people, But maybe the ideal system would be 2 x 715 tops and one sub. The reason I like these units (tops) is the power to weigth ratio 750w for 18Kgs nice, is there any other brands out there offering these specs?

"750w for 18Kgs"

750w is meaningless.
You need to look at the sensitivity of the speakers.
You can get two 750w speakers where one could be a quarter of the output of the other due to sensitivity differences.
The speakers should be in the high 90's at least for good efficiency.

[Tom]

I think you are very confused Tom.

Bose for example certainly long throw because they mainly reproduce mid and high frequencies.

Long throw is nothing at all to do with SPL (Sound Pressure Level)which is measured in Decibels (db) and is usually measured at a distance of 1m and is a measure of the loudness of a speaker.

To quote mcsquared:

In a loudspeaker system, the directivity is an indication of how directional the loudspeaker is, or to look at it another way, how effective the speaker is at taking the sound it produces and sending it in one particular direction instead of all directions. A loudspeaker that is a high directivity device is commonly called a "long throw" device. A speaker with low directivity is a "short throw" device.

This is particularly pertinent to higher frequency sounds, so is generally tied to the performance of the higher frequency systems (usually a horn).

Have a look at public address speakers - they are often a horn only and for that reason.

I just spent 20 minutes writing something back but I cant be bothered to be honest.

Large pa companys use horn loaded speakers for high spl, so the sound can travel over a large distance.


Watch this. I don't know if it is going to help but in the video is the owner of Void. He talks about SPL, 150db and sound dispersion. Nothing about thorw of sound.

YouTube - VOID ACOUSTICS' ROB MOGALE TALKS TO TPi

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Tom

Please don't write off what others say because you've spent a few hours reading and learning about this stuff on speakerplans forum.

I know you're interested, but don't discount others opinions straight away. You still have a lot to learn.:)

[nigelwright7557]

You will find higher power speakers have a longer throw to get the extra volume. They have larger coils and longer xmax.

Low frequencies are much less directional that high frequncies.

[Tom]

Tom

Please don't write off what others say because you've spent a few hours reading and learning about this stuff on speakerplans forum.

I know you're interested, but don't discount others opinions straight away. You still have a lot to learn.:)


The video was to show that a professional cab designer, with years of history behind him talks about spl, with no mention of throw.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The video was to show that a professional cab designer, with years of history behind him talks about spl, with no mention of throw.

So what was the point then if there's no mention of it?

As you say, he's talking about SPL.

[Tom]

You will find higher power speakers have a longer throw to get the extra volume. They have larger coils and longer xmax.

Low frequencies are much less directional that high frequncies.

I give up.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I give up.

Because you've been interested 5 minutes and someone is telling you something different?

[Tom]

Because you've been interested 5 minutes and someone is telling you something different?

You don't know how long I have been interested in speaker design so how can you say that I have been interested in something for 5 minutes?

Lets use this as an example.

Take a look at this PDF. It uses a double 18 reflex cab. These kind of cabs would be uses for short distance or "short throw" shall we say.

http://www.voidaudio.com//pdf/bass%20guide.pdf

When you couple the subs together, the SPL increases and then the sound can travel further.

But wait, we are using short throw speaker for long throw applications. This is where SPL and speaker efficiency come in to play.

[nigelwright7557]

I give up.

Speakers are basically:
The rate of change in voltage gives the frequency.
The depth of change in voltage give amplitude. (loudness)

Therefore for the same size speaker and coil, a longer xmax gives a louder speaker.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You don't know how long I have been interested in speaker design so how can you say that I have been interested in something for 5 minutes?



I know when you registered Tom and I know how much experience you had when you registered by the questions you were asking.

Let's not get childish about this now.

Keep learning and allowing everyone their opinion. What you will find is that there is no definate answer about this subject. There are wildly differing opinions, even by the top professionals.

[Tom]

Speakers are basically:
The rate of change in voltage gives the frequency.
The depth of change in voltage give amplitude. (loudness)

Therefore for the same size speaker a longer xmax gives a louder speaker.

But with a larger xmax, the speakers efficiency is reduced.

I know this is different but car speakers have a really larger xmax but the efficiency of the speakers are really bad.

PA speakers mainly have a small xmax, depending on the design of the driver and its use which gives a greater efficiency. This is how D&B audio can get very high SPL out of a reflex box, by using a high efficiency driver with a very well designed cab. Now I know that D&B use a lot of processing in the amps to get the hgih SPL but they are still using a reflex cab design.

[Tom]

I know when you registered Tom and I know how much experience you had when you registered by the questions you were asking.

Let's not get childish about this now.

Keep learning and allowing everyone their opinion. What you will find is that there is no definate answer about this subject. There are wildly differing opinions, even by the top professionals.

I became a member in October 2007 but have been reading longer than that. Bit like some of the member who join here saying that they have read the forums for years then decided to join.

People are welcome to there opinions. I was just stating mine with some evidence to back myself up. :)

[Tony Scott]

Therefore for the same size speaker and coil, a longer xmax gives a louder speaker.

Not sure I agree with that statement??

Example: Two 18" Precision Devices Bass drivers I own......

PD1850 - Xmax 11.25mm (98db 1w/1mtr)
PDN.18SB40 - Xmax 6.0mm (98db 1w/1mtr)

Different Xmax, same spl??.......not that i really care coz they both sound WICKED!! :D

EDIT: hole in my theory.......different Coil sizes, Doh! :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I became a member in October 2007 but have been reading longer than that. Bit like some of the member who join here saying that they have read the forums for years then decided to join.

People are welcome to there opinions. I was just stating mine with some evidence to back myself up. :)

Which is fair enough, but it looks like you are discounting some opinions already when you are still 'reasonably' new to the industry.

[nigelwright7557]

Not sure I agree with that statement??

Example: Two 18" Precision Devices Bass drivers I own......

PD1850 - Xmax 11.25mm (98db 1w/1mtr)
PDN.18SB40 - Xmax 6.0mm (98db 1w/1mtr)

Different Xmax, same spl??.......not that i really care coz they both sound WICKED!! :D

The PD1850 can displace twice as much air so is bound to be louder.
Unless during normal use it never hits anywhere near its xmax.

[Tony Scott]

The PD1850 can displace twice as much air so is bound to be louder.

They certainly do that, 4 in a stack make my eyes wobble so I can't focus! :D

[Tom]

The PD1850 can displace twice as much air so is bound to be louder.

The PD1850 is a horn sub and is :Censored: in a reflex cab. Have a look on the website and read about the drivers.

Drivers with a high BL is perfect for hornloading (4th order) where as drivers with a low FS is perfect for reflex cabs.

Tony, have you thought about using a PD186 for reflex instead of the PD1850???

[Tom]

They certainly do that, 4 in a stack make my eyes wobble so I can't focus! :D

Not very practicial for a mobile disco, unless you have Dubstep fans attending. lol

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Anyway, perhaps you'd like to start another topic about that Tom as I just had to look to see what this thread started off talking about and it was RCF cabs.

So, let's get back on topic please. Thanks.

[Tony Scott]

Not very practicial for a mobile disco, unless you have Dubstep fans attending. lol

true....but they're great for chav's 18th birthdays though..........RnB, Bassline, Hardcore, Chase & Status & Pendulum type stuff....or anything you can 'Put A Donk On'! :D

[Tom]

Anyway, perhaps you'd like to start another topic about that Tom as I just had to look to see what this thread started off talking about and it was RCF cabs.

So, let's get back on topic please. Thanks.

I'm ok. Don't see the point in starting a thread if no one has any idea in what I am talking about apart from a few people on here.

As for the original poster, if possible try and get 2 tops and 2 subs.

Just gives you more flexibility if you have a larger gig and need more bottom end. :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm ok. Don't see the point in starting a thread if no one has any idea in what I am talking about apart from a few people on here.



This is exactly what I am talking about Tom. You assume that no-one else understands or knows anything. I bet there a lot more people that know a great deal about the subject on here. :)

[Tom]

This is exactly what I am talking about Tom. You assume that no-one else understands or knows anything. I bet there a lot more people that know a great deal about the subject on here. :)

Off topic - I know that Tony Scott and Tony A1DL both know a great deal about this stuff but from what others have posted, thats all I can see at the moment. But the stuff I would like to talk about is not for a mobile disco forum. It's more PA based, hence why I don't talk about it much on here.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Off topic - I know that Tony Scott and Tony A1DL both know a great deal about this stuff but from what others have posted, thats all I can see at the moment.

There are a lot more members who know about it Tom. Just because people don't post, it doesn't mean they don't know about it.

[Tony Scott]

Off topic - I know that Tony Scott and Tony A1DL both know a great deal about this stuff but.........


There are a lot more members who know about it Tom. Just because people don't post, it doesn't mean they don't know about it.


I'm just guessing most of it.....:D :beer1:

[Twinspin]

The 7 series by RCF are nice speakers. I had a listen at nearest stockist a few weeks ago. They sounded great. The RCF gear has yet gone up again in price. The 725a's are now over 2 grand a pair.

If money is no objective and thats what you have been looking at. I would go for them.

[Tony Scott]

Tony, have you thought about using a PD186 for reflex instead of the PD1850???

I've used both 186's and 1850's.
I used to use 186's in my subs and was very happy with them but after testing the 2 side by side the 1850's won...which suprised me somewhat coz on paper they shouldn't, but then it's all subjective so....:confused: The 186's are now in my USB's

The cabs are around 220ltr and were tuned using winSd.


Ok that's it you can have your thread back now..:D

[Corabar Steve]

I'm ok. Don't see the point in starting a thread if no one has any idea in what I am talking about apart from a few people on here.)It's never stopped Badger :sj:

[kilmeedyman]

I seem to be one of those that know nothing, however others, including retailers who have been demonstrated to by RCF themselves, have heard and agree with me that the 715 is better for mobile disco applications.

It's not just about long-throw/short-throw (although its interesting that high quality speaker manufacturers make two speakers with everything the same except the horn and they state the difference is the throw of the mid-high frequencies!) its also about the crossover in frequencies (as agreed by Tony) between the horn and the driver which muddies the mid range at a distance most mobile disco clients are dancing at.

Given that the 715 is slightly more reasonably priced that shold be of benefit to the original poster.

Oh, and Tom, you need to appreciate that 'sound dispersion', 'directivity' and 'distribution' in sound terms mean prctically the same thing.

However you are right to suggest that two tops and two subs will give the most complete sound and also the most combination options for the original poster. I know Daz will back this up as he can attest to how improved the overall sound quality of his RCF's were at his party when he used two tops and two subs.




The 7 series by RCF are nice speakers. I had a listen at nearest stockist a few weeks ago. They sounded great. The RCF gear has yet gone up again in price. The 725a's are now over 2 grand a pair.

If money is no objective and thats what you have been looking at. I would go for them.

[Skarloey]

Well Gents thanks for all the contributions a very interesting discussion.