No more Mister Nice Guy!

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Well, I just want to blow off a bit of steam (and get some advice :) ), so I apologise in advance for the rant :)

Well anyway, I got a request for a quote over the website. I then got a phone call from someone I know for the same night. Told them, I would chase up the existing quote to see if they wanted to book and get back to them to say I can or can't do it (First question - fair or not?). Got cut off mid conversation with the original potential client who phoned back and left a voicemail saying yes they definately wanted to book, but it was his wife dealing with it (even though he made the enquiry ( :confused: ), and could I ring him back to sort out details. I phoned the second enquirer and said that, unfortunately, I couldn't cover it (which they were great about and understood).

I then phoned the original client, only to be told that his wife had sorted entertainment with an alternative company so I wasnt needed (that was basically it, no sorry for wasting your time or anything). As you can imagine im fairly peeved (the second enquirer (who I know) had also been sorted out with a contact I put her in touch with)

What would you guys/girls(?) have done in this situation. Do you hold quotes of a length of time, or is it the first to agree to a booking form gets the gig, etc?

Cheers

Steve

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Well, I just want to blow off a bit of steam (and get some advice :) ), so I apologise in advance for the rant :)

Well anyway, I got a request for a quote over the website. I then got a phone call from someone I know for the same night. Told them, I would chase up the existing quote to see if they wanted to book and get back to them to say I can or can't do it (First question - fair or not?). Got cut off mid conversation with the original potential client who phoned back and left a voicemail saying yes they definately wanted to book, but it was his wife dealing with it (even though he made the enquiry ( :confused: ), and could I ring him back to sort out details. I phoned the second enquirer and said that, unfortunately, I couldn't cover it (which they were great about and understood).

I then phoned the original client, only to be told that his wife had sorted entertainment with an alternative company so I wasnt needed (that was basically it, no sorry for wasting your time or anything). As you can imagine im fairly peeved (the second enquirer (who I know) had also been sorted out with a contact I put her in touch with)

What would you guys/girls(?) have done in this situation. Do you hold quotes of a length of time, or is it the first to agree to a booking form gets the gig, etc?

Cheers

Steve

First come first served. No booking of mine is confirmed until deposit has been received/cleared. I do usually turn away customers when i have had an email with all their details stating they want my services with the dates, times and price on. Its not a contract but doing it i find that very rarely people cancel. Timewasters usually get put off by this.

[Danno13]

There's not alot you can do in that position really.. I would have asked the 1st caller if they difinitley wished to go ahead, if yes, I'd have sent out a booking form and held the date for 7-14days until they send it back. They could still mess you around by not returning it though....

Sorry, for the edit, just re-read you post, I would have phoned the 1st client to take details and their address to post a booking form, before phoning the 2nd person back.

[nigelwright7557]

Its not a contract but doing it i find that very rarely people cancel. Timewasters usually get put off by this.

I believe emails will stand as evidence in court.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

its a shame voicemails wont. Gonna put it down to a learning curve (a steep one :) )

[Vectis]

Provisionally book for 10 days. No contract (or electronic deposit payment) in that time, no booking. Other requests for the same date in the meantime are either iced or refused.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I believe emails will stand as evidence in court.

Nigel for the sake of say £200 going through at best small claims court and having your name pulled through the mud its not going to be worth it really is it?

[nigelwright7557]

Nigel for the sake of say £200 going through at best small claims court and having your name pulled through the mud its not going to be worth it really is it?

I dont think trying to get money your owed is dragging your name through the mud. But it is of course dragging a customers name through the mud.

The trouble is if they get away with it once they will keep on doing it.....

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I dont think trying to get money your owed is dragging your name through the mud. But it is of course dragging a customers name through the mud.

The trouble is if they get away with it once they will keep on doing it.....

The problem is proving that the money is owed. You havent provided a service to them and they didnt sign anything to say its a booking, email is still better than verbal but still not as concrete as a contract IMO.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I dont think trying to get money your owed is dragging your name through the mud. But it is of course dragging a customers name through the mud.

The trouble is if they get away with it once they will keep on doing it.....


Local paper reports this. People take note of the buisness name. Birthday comes up and you look in the yellow pages. Are you gonna call that same company regardless of the outcome?

[nigelwright7557]

Local paper reports this. People take note of the buisness name. Birthday comes up and you look in the yellow pages. Are you gonna call that same company regardless of the outcome?

Why would i care if the company was simply pursuing a none payer ?

Is it such a bad thing to pursue a none payer ?

The other option is just to let it go and forget about it.
But if people find that out they will all not be paying you !

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Why would i care if the company was simply pursuing a none payer ?

Nigel you got to think from the protential customers point of view. Seeing a companys name in regards to a court case is going to be viewed as a big black mark.

[nigelwright7557]

Nigel you got to think from the protential customers point of view. Seeing a companys name in regards to a court case is going to be viewed as a big black mark.

Only if the disco is being sued !

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Only if the disco is being sued !

You really belive that? Bless

[rob1963]

Provisionally book for 10 days. No contract (or electronic deposit payment) in that time, no booking. Other requests for the same date in the meantime are either iced or refused.

Same here, although with me it's 14 days.

[Corabar Steve]

I believe emails will stand as evidence in court.

You also believe your speakers look good.



'nuff said :sj:

[Vectis]

Same here, although with me it's 14 days.

Used to be 7 days before I moved to the IOW and realised that the Royal Mail doesn't cope too well here :bang:

<rant>

OT but did you know that our mail is sorted in Guildford? So even if I post a letter to my next door neighbour, it has to make two ferry journeys? Unbelievable. Local rag did an article on this a while ago and concluded that something like 75-80% of all mail posted here comes back here :mad:

</rant>

[Shaun]

Told them, I would chase up the existing quote to see if they wanted to book and get back to them to say I can or can't do it (First question - fair or not?).


Absolutely fair. I regularly do what you do.

I don't have a set period for duration of 'provisional bookings'. At the time of them requesting one, I inform that their "provisional booking" isnt a guarantee that the date they require will be fully held and secured for them. Only a signed contract and inital fee will fully guarantee that.

I also let them know that if another enquiry comes in for that date, I'll contact them and give the option of confirming the booking by making a payment through my website. I allow 12 hours from the time of me contacting them for payment to be made (which I think is fair). After this time the booking is freed up for other interested parties.

[Corabar Steve]

Playing Devil's advocate here Shaun. What happens if within those 12 hours the second enquiry finds somebody else?

[Shaun]

Playing Devil's advocate here Shaun. What happens if within those 12 hours the second enquiry finds somebody else?

It can happen.

The only thing I can do is be completely honest with the second enquirer and let them know that I'll need 12 hours to see if the other enquirer for the date wants to secure the date. Most will say that's fine.

[soundtracker]

<rant>

So even if I post a letter to my next door neighbour, it has to make two ferry journeys?
</rant>

Try nipping around and delivering yourself! Lazy Git!!:D :D :D :D :D

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I think im going to try and stick to similar to you Shaun, i think this case was just one of them bad luck cases.

Nigel - This was not a NON-PAYER, this was a provisional booking that fell through whilst i was turning other work away.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I had a bloke book me last year for a wedding this year (September). I sent him booking forms, they weren't returned. I called him and left messages as he doesn't have email and I heard nothing. I STILL kept the booking open for him because it was still a potential booking and on a date that I had nothing else on.
Just before christmas I thought I would send him a letter and also re-sent the booking forms. I asked if he could get back to me to confirm whether I was still required and if he could send the booking fee or I would open up the date again. I heard nothing until about 2 weeks later when he texted me out of the blue. He apologised for his lack of contact but explained that he had firstly been made redundant and secondly, his fiancee had been involved in a pretty bad car accident and his head was allover the place.

I phoned after I had read the text because I felt guilty as it may have seemed as if I was hassling him. He was very down in the dumps and rightly so. I told him that I would keep the date open for him and would waive the booking fee as long as he confirmed that I was still required. He said he would get back to me. He did get back to me..... this week. He apologised again for his lateness in getting back to me and said he really appreciated my patience. He told me that his fiancee wasn't responding well to treatment and that the wedding would have to be delayed until next year (August). At first I was a bit gutted (for him aswell and I don't even know him!), but this morning I received a letter along with a booking fee for next year so all is well.

Yesterday, I had an enquiry for the date that he wanted which was really freaky. They have not confirmed as yet and are getting back to me.

I keep things open for a while and in this case it was months. I should have just written off the enquiry as a no-go but I didn't. The reason I didn't was because I never had any other enquiries for the same date. If I had of then I would've contacted him and told him that I had received a confirmed enquiry and would have to honour the booking.
In the plain light of day it looks as if I have been mucked about...maybe I have but it's all worked out fine in the end.

Now, if I was in the same position as you...I would have told both that I would get back to them as soon as possible and kind of picked and choosed which one I wanted or preferred to do.

[Vectis]

Try nipping around and delivering yourself! Lazy Git!!:D :D :D :D :D

D'oh!

Thing is I have to walk past his house to get to the letter box!!!
:p

[DJ Jules]

First post, so don't bite my head off - legally, you can't take someone through the small claims court for messing you around on a booking - it's an unfortunate side effect of the distance selling regulations. If someone places an order with you by phone, letter, or email it is legally binding, but only after the "cooling off period" which is 14 days. Incidentally, this applies to anything and everything you can buy over the phone, even if you've recieved the goods (because you're not physically present to inspect them when you buy, you can say it wasn't what you were expecting to see and send them back for a refund!) Luckily the only exception to the return rule is services or items which are not easily returnable in their original condition, so if you take a booking and do the gig within 14 days, they can't turn around and tell you they've changed their minds because you "weren't what they expected!" (unless of course you blatently advertise your services as something they're not, in which case you're asking for people to ask for refunds anyway).

Just a bit of info...

Personally, I've been provisionally booking people in when they confirm that they want to use my services, but I only confirm the booking (e.g. start turning anyone else away for the date) once I have their full details (by email, phone, post). I don't actually bother with deposits now - I'd be interested to know if I'm asking to be messed about?

Julian

[DazzyD]

Try nipping around and delivering yourself! Lazy Git!!:D :D :D :D :D

:rofl:


First post, so don't bite my head off - legally, you can't take someone through the small claims court for messing you around on a booking - it's an unfortunate side effect of the distance selling regulations. If someone places an order with you by phone, letter, or email it is legally binding, but only after the "cooling off period" which is 14 days. Incidentally, this applies to anything and everything you can buy over the phone, even if you've recieved the goods (because you're not physically present to inspect them when you buy, you can say it wasn't what you were expecting to see and send them back for a refund!) Luckily the only exception to the return rule is services or items which are not easily returnable in their original condition, so if you take a booking and do the gig within 14 days, they can't turn around and tell you they've changed their minds because you "weren't what they expected!" (unless of course you blatently advertise your services as something they're not, in which case you're asking for people to ask for refunds anyway).

Just a bit of info...

Personally, I've been provisionally booking people in when they confirm that they want to use my services, but I only confirm the booking (e.g. start turning anyone else away for the date) once I have their full details (by email, phone, post). I don't actually bother with deposits now - I'd be interested to know if I'm asking to be messed about?

Julian

Not sure that the Distance Sellings Regulations (DSRs) apply to our industry because you can't inspect the services on offer within "a reasonable time period". The amount of time is not set in stone but most consumer lawyers/experts would suggest this to be between "4-6 weeks from the date of receipt" (not sure how you can have a date of receipt in our industry either!). By the time that you've done the gig, "a reasonable time period" is almost certain to have been and gone!

However, consumer law does state that anyone signing a contract (any contract as I believe it) has the right of a cooling-off period - a nominal amount of time in which the customer can, without any financial loss to themselves, change their mind. Any half-decent business lawyer should be able to confirm this.

So, any disco that tries to pursue a customer for money, in the instance in which Steve has described, will, undoubtedly, fail. And, remember, if you launch legal action against someone and fail, then they have the legal right to issue counter-precedings for "reasonable costs" which can also include an amount for "inconvenience caused". A bit of common sense is what's needed here.

[[email protected]]

First post, so don't bite my head off - legally, you can't take someone through the small claims court for messing you around on a booking - it's an unfortunate side effect of the distance selling regulations. If someone places an order with you by phone, letter, or email it is legally binding, but only after the "cooling off period" which is 14 days

Hi Julian

Welcome, this isn't strictly true with the DSR's as you can have contracts that do not allow cancellation, and are binding from the point of issue (or binding from the point when the client says yes, i'll book you). I use non-cancellable contracts that are written confirmation of a verbal agreement, there's also a clause in there that requests the client sign and return the contract, but, it isn't necessary for them to do so (however, I do make a point of chasing them for signed contracts).

I use these, as there are some dates in the year that you may only have a couple of chances to sell the date.

Cheers
Alan