View Full Version : The Only Makes In The Disco World Are......
discomobiledj
03-02-2009, 01:37 PM
Apparently Pioneer and Denon!
Do you agree?
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 01:53 PM
I'm not even sure what you're talking about?
discomobiledj
03-02-2009, 01:57 PM
Someone on another forum has a DJ shop and claims that Pioneer and Denon are the only makes that a professional DJ uses.
I just want to know what everyone else thinks.
soundtracker
03-02-2009, 02:00 PM
Someone on another forum has a DJ shop and claims that Pioneer and Denon are the only makes that a professional DJ uses.
I just want to know what everyone else thinks.
Gonna struggle with amplification, speakers and lighting then!
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 02:02 PM
Someone on another forum has a DJ shop and claims that Pioneer and Denon are the only makes that a professional DJ uses.
I just want to know what everyone else thinks.
Are we talking about just mixers and CD/HD players here?
discomobiledj
03-02-2009, 03:28 PM
This is what the person said:
Pioneer and Denon are the only makes to buy when being a proffesional DJ
Shakermaker Promotions
03-02-2009, 03:32 PM
I use Pioneer and Denon but as said above....What about speakers, amps and lights?
Whoever it is, probably uses them and thinks he's the big 'I am'.
It's a bit of a stupid statement really. There are plenty of professionals out there that don't use Pioneer and Denon.
discomobiledj
03-02-2009, 03:33 PM
His site:
theaudioworksuk.com
Pioneer CDJ1000s have become the industry standard CD player in the same way that the Technics SL1200s/1210s became the industry standard turntable.
IMHO it is somewhat narrow minded to say Pioneer & Denon are the "only" manufacturers of professional DJ CD players, however I guess they are the only decent really well known players. For example, Tascam make great pro kit, however they aren't that widely known and many people may not have even heard of them.
Lots of professional DJs dislike twin rack mount players, and insist on CDJs being supplied, and for some reason they like the matching Pioneer mixer. Although Denon make single CD players in the same league as the CDJ1000, I've yet to have someone ask for Denon DN-S-whatevers on a job. It's always CDJ1000s.
Personally, I am not a great fan of Pioneer DJMs and firmly believe they wouldn't be held in the regard they are, if it weren't for the success of the CDJ.
There are far better professional DJ mixers available from the likes of Formula Sound, A&H, Rane, etc (and formerly Cloud, up until they discontinued the legendary CXM).
So to answer the original question, No, Pioneer and Denon are not the ONLY professional brands, they are however the two best known and a DJ is understandably playing it safe insisting on either, to ensure they don't end up with some old Gemini /Numark/Prosound/etc. unit they will be unfamiliar with, which may be unreliable and impair their performance.
Just my 2p.
rob1963
03-02-2009, 04:42 PM
Someone on another forum has a DJ shop and claims that Pioneer and Denon are the only makes that a professional DJ uses.
I just want to know what everyone else thinks.
I think that's complete toilet!
How on earth can someone brand all non-Denon & non-Pioneer users as unprofessional?
:shrug:
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 04:44 PM
I think that's complete toilet!
How on earth can someone brand all non-Denon & non-Pioneer users as unprofessional?
:shrug:
I use Pioneer and Denon. :D
rob1963
03-02-2009, 04:50 PM
I use Pioneer and Denon. :D
Indeed, and I'm fairly sure your opinion is the same as mine.
I know I'd have the same opinion even if I DID use Pioneer & Denon.
discomobiledj
03-02-2009, 04:57 PM
His latest post...
Thats is the weirdest thing Ive ever heard ! a DJ that doesnt use Pioneer CDjs or Denons ? We have been selling top dj gear for over 20 years to many world famous DJs and installed over 750 top clubs over the Uk with the industry standard c d j 1000s and d j m 800. packs .
Had to add spaces as the forum thinks it's text talk!
All because I said that I don't use Denon or Pioneer!
He is a strange boy.
rob1963
03-02-2009, 05:01 PM
He is a strange boy.
You can say that again!
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 05:17 PM
His latest post...
Had to add spaces as the forum thinks it's text talk!
All because I said that I don't use Denon or Pioneer!
He is a strange boy.
He's not talking about mobiles, he's talking about club DJs and installs. Lots of clubs that I've worked in have had Rane mixers, so I'm not quite sure what he says is true..
I have used many brands of equipment and to be honest, Denon do have all the bells and whistles but that comes at a price. Using Denon does not make me a pro (waiting for a sarcastic comment lol) but it does help me improve my show.
I don't see how using certain brands of equipment can make you a pro??? It's not what gear you use, its who uses it.
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't see how using certain brands of equipment can make you a pro??? It's not what gear you use, its who uses it.
Hmm. Not sure about that. There are certain standards.
ppentertainments
03-02-2009, 05:34 PM
I don't see how using certain brands of equipment can make you a pro??? It's not what gear you use, its who uses it.
Although a minimum standard must is met, I agree with you.
However talking to other Dj's and browsing forums a majority of Dj's go on about new (better???) equipment. You hardly ever hear a DJ saying 'I am going to improve my xxxxxxx skills' etc. - so from this it seems that most dj's believe it is the equipment that makes them a pro.
DeckstarDeluxe
03-02-2009, 06:31 PM
I think what he says is correct in a way. In a club use which i think he was refering to they are the only choices i would consider really. Mobile is a different ball game! I do like the stanton products however......
Although a minimum standard must is met, I agree with you.
However talking to other Dj's and browsing forums a majority of Dj's go on about new (better???) equipment. You hardly ever hear a DJ saying 'I am going to improve my xxxxxxx skills' etc. - so from this it seems that most dj's believe it is the equipment that makes them a pro.
I agree with you there.
One of the reasons for me buying cd decks as I like scratching, not that I can do it or anything, lol, but dont want toe hastle of vinyl and also learn turntablelism. This I believe will help my beat macthing and improve me as a dj overall.
But hey, Denon will make me a pro. lol.
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 07:17 PM
Funny that he hasnt mentioned Technics at all. Most "pro" djs i know prefer to use vinyl, but use cds for ease....
He's not talking about mobiles, he's talking about club DJs and installs. Lots of clubs that I've worked in have had Rane mixers, so I'm not quite sure what he says is true..
:agree:
Clubs and Bars that i've worked in the past have had a variety of mixers from Ecler, Allen & Heath, Citronic, Formula Sound, even KAM in one venue (but they'd really done that install on the cheap).
The brand of mixer didn't impare my performance in anyway (well the KAM one made it interesting) IMO it's down to the skill of the DJ to make the best of what your given in a club or bar environment.
Penfold42
03-02-2009, 07:26 PM
Someone on another forum has a DJ shop and claims that Pioneer and Denon are the only makes that a professional DJ uses.
I just want to know what everyone else thinks.
:Rob James:
What about you? :)
Funny that he hasnt mentioned Technics at all. Most "pro" djs i know prefer to use vinyl, but use cds for ease....
Thing is Steve, there's very little new material promoed on vinyl nowadays.
Danno13
03-02-2009, 07:45 PM
Funny that he hasnt mentioned Technics at all. Most "pro" djs i know prefer to use vinyl, but use cds for ease....
How do you define "pro" ??
Most of the big name DJs are now using CDJs and have been for ages. I've seen plenty using PC based systems too. Obviously turntablists are a bit of an exception...
Oh.. and most clubs will have Formula Sound or Allen & Heath mixers installed over Denon or Pioneer.
Adam_F
03-02-2009, 07:45 PM
I use Pioneer and Denon. :D
Me too :D
Hmm. Not sure about that. There are certain standards.
Agree, I've had various high profile DJs (Micky Slim, Deadmau5, D Ramirez, Dirty South, Slipmat, DJ Hype, Phantasy, DJ SS to name a few) play in store and they always want certain kit, and won't play an anything else.
:agree:
Clubs and Bars that i've worked in the past have had a variety of mixers from Ecler, Allen & Heath, Citronic, Formula Sound, even KAM in one venue (but they'd really done that install on the cheap).
The brand of mixer didn't impare my performance in anyway (well the KAM one made it interesting) IMO it's down to the skill of the DJ to make the best of what your given in a club or bar environment.
True again, up until about a year ago, nearly every pub/club in Birmingham had Vestax PCV 275 mixers installed, as they perform really well and are built like tanks!
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 07:57 PM
How do you define "pro" ??
Most of the big name DJs are now using CDJs and have been for ages. I've seen plenty using PC based systems too. Obviously turntablists are a bit of an exception...
Oh.. and most clubs will have Formula Sound or Allen & Heath mixers installed over Denon or Pioneer.
Yes, most of the big name DJs are using CDs, but purely for ease. After many conversations with fairly big names (im not gonna start dropping names...unless you want me to :D:D ) most still love vinyl the feel and sound of vinyl, but use cds for the ease, functionality, and effect/playout diversity that a CDJ opens up.
Thing is Steve, there's very little new material promoed on vinyl nowadays.
I agree, however Power still give me the option of getting my stuff (alot of it) on Vinyl. Just choose not to coz im a lazy git and CDJs are a piece of P:Censored: to work with.
discomobiledj
03-02-2009, 08:22 PM
:Rob James:
What about you? :)
I think he is a bit of a plank personally!
Penfold42
03-02-2009, 08:28 PM
I think he is a bit of a plank personally!
Sorry didn't mean that.....the best bit of your kit is .....YOU! :)
nigelwright7557
03-02-2009, 08:49 PM
Apparently Pioneer and Denon!
Do you agree?
Nonsense, Maplin and Prosound ! :D
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Nonsense, Maplin and Prosound ! :D
No...Thats nonsense...."Nigels Pro Home Made" is the way forward :D
nigelwright7557
03-02-2009, 08:56 PM
No...Thats nonsense...."Nigels Pro Home Made" is the way forward :D
But you couldnt afford me :D
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 09:00 PM
But you couldnt afford me :D
I could afford to book your disco.
Not that I'd want to :sj:
No...Thats nonsense...."Nigels Pro Home Made" is the way forward :D
It's Nigeltronic Steve, get it right ;)
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 09:12 PM
I could afford to book your disco.
Not that I'd want to :sj:
It's Nigeltronic Steve, get it right ;)
:Laugh:
nigelwright7557
03-02-2009, 09:18 PM
I could afford to book your disco.
Not that I'd want to :sj:
Everyone can afford me, that why I get so many clients.
BeerFunk
03-02-2009, 09:24 PM
I would argue that the only top grade CD decks are made by Denon or Pioneer. I wouldn't have faith in any other units - to play, without delay, everytime I hit the button.
I would argue that the only top grade CD decks are made by Denon or Pioneer. I wouldn't have faith in any other units - to play, without delay, everytime I hit the button.
I agree with that.
Also you dont have to buy the most expensive Denon or Pioneer gear. Some of the cheaper stuff is quite good. Had a play on a few things at dj shows and hitting play and cue is spot on, just don't have as many features on the unit.
Still you are paying for the name and with the name you are getting quality equipment.
nigelwright7557
03-02-2009, 09:49 PM
I agree with that.
Also you dont have to buy the most expensive Denon or Pioneer gear. Some of the cheaper stuff is quite good. Had a play on a few things at dj shows and hitting play and cue is spot on, just don't have as many features on the unit.
Still you are paying for the name and with the name you are getting quality equipment.
If the name and price only inspire confidence in the kit then its worth it for that.
Personally I would prefer to buy two cheap decks and have one as backup than trust an expensive deck not to die on its own.
Shakermaker Promotions
03-02-2009, 09:54 PM
Most Pro DJ's will use CDJ's now because the technology is so much better. In other words, they can do exactly the same on a CDJ as they can on a 1210 deck. Someone I know is an excellent hip hop DJ. He moved over to CDJ's about a year ago and is very impressed with them.
I still have 4 x Pioneer CDJ500 MkII Ltd Editions and they have NEVER ever let me down.
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 10:00 PM
In other words, they can do exactly the same on a CDJ as they can on a 1210 deck.
You can do so much more, thats the big draw for me. You never got hot cues and seamless loop on a turntable :)
Shakermaker Promotions
03-02-2009, 10:01 PM
Come on, you know what I meant.:D
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 10:02 PM
You can do so much more, thats the big draw for me. You never got hot cues and seamless loop on a turntable :)
I seem to remember guys mixing with vinyl actually marking the record in the correct place for hot cues (or equivalent) and using 2 decks and a crossfader to create a seemless loop.
Pah, bring back proper DJing...:sofa: :taxi:
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 10:03 PM
Come on, you know what I meant.:D
I know. :D Mind you i know djs who still swore by turntables and thought CDJs/Denons were just cd players that act like decks. Until they are shown how to use them properly, then there converted :)
I seem to remember guys mixing with vinyl actually marking the record in the correct place for hot cues (or equivalent) and using 2 decks and a crossfader to create a seemless loop.
Pah, bring back proper DJing...:sofa: :taxi:
I agree, proper DJing isnt using CDJs, so to speak. Ive got all my hot cues stored/etc. You can match the bpm in seconds with no thought and away you go. It gets boring quickly, its nice to crack out the 12 inch and play properly.
Solitaire Events Ltd
03-02-2009, 10:08 PM
I agree, proper DJing isnt using CDJs
I was joking! ;)
If the name and price only inspire confidence in the kit then its worth it for that.
With a top brand name comes a top price, but the name has to earn its reputation in the first place. To earn that reputation the product has to sound outstandingly superior, or be incredibly efficient (or both - e.g. D&B C Series, 1992/3) compared to what else is industry standard at the time, alternativley it must be revolutionary (e.g. Denon DN2000, 1982).
Jurgen Daubert & Rolf Belz started building speakers back in the early 80s, when everyone was touring with Martin phillishaves, yet within a few years D&B C4 became industry standard. Superior sound quality and efficiency were the key.
In the early 90s, many FLC/Northern/European Leisure etc clubs had started to install Technics broadcast CD players. They were not designed to withstand hot, sweaty, smokey environments & vibration and certainly weren't DJ friendly, therefore when Denon launched the Mk1 DN2000 at its £1,000 retail price point, they were guaranteed success with this truly revolutionary product.
As in all walks of life, of course other companies quickly come along and imitate, often poorly.
Dynamic Entertainment
03-02-2009, 10:16 PM
I was joking! ;)
Im not :D. My 5 year old can beat mix by "matching the little numbers and pressing the green button on the bang sound" as he puts it.
spin mobile disco
03-02-2009, 10:53 PM
I have used a fair amount of ear over the years and as my entire living is made from being a DJ I feel that anyone that says that 2 brands are there simply because only the best use them are talking out of their rear end.
I have a dennon dx-500 and I actually found that my nuamrk 200fx was a better mixer and cost a lot less.
I used cdn-88 numark decks for years and when I played in clubs on the south coast it was the choice of many venue to use them. And owning a set that never failed in 6 years of contant use reinforced them as a pro unit in my mind. And at the same time I know someone that went through 3 pioneer decks in the same time and he was pretty careful with his gear.
My numark mixer crossfader failed last year after about 2 years of use. Thinking I would 'upgrade' to a dennon to solve this problem I bought one. 2 months later the crossfader failed. 1 month after that a cue switch failed. Now I know the one bad penny story so won't judge on that. But to say that these brands are the best is just insane and a very narrow minded view.
And I agree formula sound was a much better mixer, survived a few drinks spilt in it as well.
I like dennon and pioneer but do not think they are the cream of the profession.
nigelwright7557
03-02-2009, 11:01 PM
As in all walks of life, of course other companies quickly come along and imitate, often poorly.
Or improve on something and steal the market !
discomobiledj
04-02-2009, 07:44 AM
Or improve on something and steal the market !
Like you Nigel!
discomobiledj
05-02-2009, 07:03 AM
Just to finish up he finally responded to my post:
I use Warrior, KAM, American Audio and Class D for my audio
with
I see now why you thought we were expensive.
I think you need to come and see us sometime mate.
we will turn you into a proper DJ
What a Rodney Plonker!
Shakermaker Promotions
05-02-2009, 07:40 AM
The guy who is posting about Denon and Pioneer is obviously a 'Gear Snob'. There are plenty of them around and that's what puts me off the whole scene and forums sometimes. There's always someone that THINKS that they know better than everyone else.
It may be a case that the guy has just gone for Denon and Pioneer because of their reputation and that's all he has ever used. I can't really knock him that much because I don't know if that's the case.
Having used different brands in the past, I can honestly say that Pioneer are the best brand that I have used personally.
The first Active speakers I purchased when I started on my own were a pair of Gemini GX450's. They were quite heavy and the sound was ok (a bit muddy even after tweeking the EQ on the back). I then purchased some DB Technologies Basic 400 actives and they blow the Gemini's away. They are really light, a lot smaller and the same power but more importantly, the sound is crisper, and without an EQ. I sold the Gemini's on to a mate and he can't get his head around the fact that what I have said above is true. I use the DB Techs for an Open Mic night at my local once a month. Last week I couldn't do it as I had a consultation with a customer so he covered me and used his Gemini's. The boss commented that the sound wasn't as good (and my mate 'claims' to be a sound man).
I also bought a Behringer DJX700 Mixer a couple of years ago. It looked like it was modelled on the Pioneer DJM600 and I thought at the time that it would do the job I wanted at more or less a third of the price. How wrong I was!! It was as light as anything and a quite gutless with flimsy, plastic dials etc etc and the sound quality wasn't up to much. I sold that on too (to the same bloke) and got the Pioneer DJM600 and all I can say is WOW...totally worth the money.
There are two examples and that's what I think it's all about. It's a learning curve. When I started on my own, I went for cheaper stuff rather than top of the range for my budget because I wanted to get them in the end once I started earning enough to buy them. Fair enough to people who go straight in there and get the top equipment, I couldn't at the time. Now that gear has gone and been replaced by much better stuff.
The only brand that I have gone straight for is Crown when it comes to amps. I heard loads of good stuff about them (Quality, Reliability etc) and I haven't looked back since I got them.
ppentertainments
05-02-2009, 08:05 AM
Basically what he is saying is 'get a £10,000 bank loan, buy some good gear and voila you are a great DJ'
Shakermaker Promotions
05-02-2009, 08:32 AM
Sounds like that yes.
BeerFunk
05-02-2009, 08:45 PM
Some people are sold a brand on the basis of the name/reputation, that goes without saying. My own tendency towards Pioneer or Denon, when it comes to decks and mixers, is based on experience only. The only mixer or CD deck I've ever been 100% happy with was a Vestax (PCV-175 I think?).
I realise there are superior mixers to Denon and Pioneer models around, but they are quite simply out of my price range, and offer little more in terms of reliability and functionality. I would expect that they have more quality in the sound reproduction, but is it worth it when you are playing through a PA system?
DeckstarDeluxe
05-02-2009, 08:57 PM
Get yourselfs down to a dj store. Find the equipment that suits your skills and budget. Simples ;D
BeerFunk
05-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Get yourselfs down to a dj store. Find the equipment that suits your skills and budget. Simples ;DIf only! You only really know if equipment is suitable and reliable after hours of use.
Shakermaker Promotions
05-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Sound Quality-wise and ease of use are things you can see for yourself in a DJ store...but reliability, you can't as stated by Beerfunk. You need proper experience with lots of different mixers.
I have done years at different clubs and used many different mixers including Rane, A&H, Denon, Numark, Pioneer to name but a few and the same goes for CD Players and Decks so that experience comes in handy.
PropellerHeadCase
05-02-2009, 09:44 PM
To ignore Rane and Allen & Heath, just in the area of mixers, is ridiculous. I have seen numerous international acts with these units, Way Out West (both Nick AND Jody), particularly.
Dynamic Entertainment
05-02-2009, 09:59 PM
Allen & Heath
Id kill for a Zone 92 with Rotary Faders. I love them. Only got to use one once but the filters on them are the dogs dangallies :)
rob1963
05-02-2009, 11:22 PM
The guy who is posting about Denon and Pioneer is obviously a 'Gear Snob'.
Or to put it another way...a willy waver.
My own tendency towards Pioneer or Denon, when it comes to decks and mixers, is based on experience only.
My tendency AWAY from Denon is largely based on MY experience...and my brand new Denon DN1800F CD player packed up after two years.
Apart from that, I don't see the point in paying a much higher price for something with lots of extra features which I simply don't need. That would be a bit like buying a DVD recorder, but only ever using it to PLAY DVDs.
:shrug:
PropellerHeadCase
06-02-2009, 08:04 AM
I was happy with the Denon I had - five years of almost trouble-free motoring, but as you say, Rob, I can no longer justify the relative expense when much of that expense is due to feature I don't use.
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