Need more bass!!

[SilverlineDiscos]

Hi guys,

I know this might sound rather odd, but I have recently aquired a pair of unknown branded speakers. All I know is that they are a pair of 2-way 200w Eminence bass drivers and a only have a peizo horn.

I did a disco in December at a youth club and having used them for the first time I found I had to turn the bass about three quarters of the way up on the mixer. This of course put me in the red and as I understand putting loud signals into the amp is not a good idea. I know the speakers can handle the extra bass I put into them, as they rocked the floor!! :D

Is there any way to make my speakers sound a bit more bassy without touching the red? The speakers sound really good when I turn them up, just the bass is not ever-so loud. I thought about getting an Equaliser??

Hope a few experienced DJ's could give me any tips :p

[yourdj]

try this:

http://www.waves.com/objects/Images/Headers/maxxbass107_header2.jpg

http://www.waves.com/Content.aspx?id=173

been using one for years and no problems if not used full pelt on crap speakers. good for adding bass to certain tracks when required or in rubbish acoustic venues. i use them on my full range tannoys and bins and unlike many units they work a bit differently.

But: for the cost of this you might want to think of a bass bin. I made two out of 12 inch speakers, crown amp and a crossover. for about £250-300 i have a great sounding, portable system which holds its own in winchester guildhall.

[Tom]

From what I have about these types of units, they are rather good but you can never match the real deal of having a 15 or 18 inch sub. Or from what I have been working on, a 12 inch sub that drops lower that a 15 and 18 sub but in a much smaller cab. :D

But with that is has reduced output but pair the subs and bang, there is your spl. :D:D:D.

[SilverlineDiscos]

Thanks for your replies. Some good advice there too.

However, I would have thought, that with having a 15" bass driver and only a horn in these cabs surely getting some bass cabs would mean I would have too much bass?? Wouldn't it sound a bit odd??

Like I said before, the speakers sound great for there power rating, just the bass isn't great.

Ohh and by the way, these cabs don't have a crossover inside. Just jack to speaker.

Adam

[spin mobile disco]

Doesnt work quite like that. Your tops are producing mid range frequencies as well as some lower end. But a sub Handles all the real low frequencies it would damage the other speaker to try to replicate (or at least drain more power than is good for it)
I dont think the phrase I have to much bass had been used by a DJ for quiet some time.

[DJ James Lake]

Doesnt work quite like that. Your tops are producing mid range frequencies as well as some lower end. But a sub Handles all the real low frequencies it would damage the other speaker to try to replicate (or at least drain more power than is good for it)
I dont think the phrase I have to much bass had been used by a DJ for quiet some time.

He could always get some peaveys like mine ;)

On a more serious note, your not using a behringer mixer are you, they really lack bass on any setup

[Sapphire Disco]

This is what I use and I can thoroughly recommend it , the difference with it off then on is phenomenal.

http://www.dv247.com/invt/740/

I still use it even with subs.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

This is what I use and I can thoroughly recommend it , the difference with it off then on is phenomenal.

http://www.dv247.com/invt/740/

I still use it even with subs.

Get better ones then Paul :boxer2: :D

[Sapphire Disco]

Get better ones then Paul :boxer2: :D


I've only just got some new subs these.

http://www.studiomaster.com/productspic/vsx-lrg3.jpg

They are very punchy :boxer2:

[501damian501]

Hi guys,

I know this might sound rather odd, but I have recently aquired a pair of unknown branded speakers. All I know is that they are a pair of 2-way 200w Eminence bass drivers and a only have a peizo horn.

I did a disco in December at a youth club and having used them for the first time I found I had to turn the bass about three quarters of the way up on the mixer. This of course put me in the red and as I understand putting loud signals into the amp is not a good idea. I know the speakers can handle the extra bass I put into them, as they rocked the floor!! :D

Is there any way to make my speakers sound a bit more bassy without touching the red? The speakers sound really good when I turn them up, just the bass is not ever-so loud. I thought about getting an Equaliser??

Hope a few experienced DJ's could give me any tips :p


i tihnk you need an x over with better subs, if you can afford to spend alot, go onto speaker plans and attempt to build some, or do it the pikey way like me, tip into your local college and ask the joinery teacher if he minds one of his lucky students to build you some cabs :D , cheers damian

[SilverlineDiscos]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

I'm not using a Behringer mixer, although I did consider buying one. I use a Pro Club Mixer Gemini CS-19. It has a 3 band equaliser and have a gain control for all channels.

I would consider getting some subs, but a little unsure as to which ones. Plus at the moment, I can't jusity the cost of spending say £300-400 on a pair of sub cabs.

I thought about getting a graphics equaliser, and perhaps run that inline from the mixer to the AMP. Any thoughts?

[DJ James Lake]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

I'm not using a Behringer mixer, although I did consider buying one. I use a Pro Club Mixer Gemini CS-19. It has a 3 band equaliser and have a gain control for all channels.

I would consider getting some subs, but a little unsure as to which ones. Plus at the moment, I can't jusity the cost of spending say £300-400 on a pair of sub cabs.

I thought about getting a graphics equaliser, and perhaps run that inline from the mixer to the AMP. Any thoughts?

You dont need to buy subs in pairs as they dont have the stereo separation effect like tops, start with one and hide it under your deck stand if funds are tight, then add another later if you feel you want even more.

[Tony Scott]

.....I thought about getting a graphics equaliser, and perhaps run that inline from the mixer to the AMP. Any thoughts?

If you are on a budget then putting an equaliser between the mixer and amp would be the best way to go. This means you can boost the bass part of the signal without pushing the mixer output into the red, however you'll have to make sure you don't overdrive your amplifier input.....what amp have you got?

If you go for an EQ that also has a seperate Sub-Bass output you will be able to add another amp and sub cabinet(s) when you can afford to, this one has a sub out:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_fbq1502_ultragraph_pro_graphiceq.htm

:)

[nigelwright7557]

If your going into the red then the amp is being overdriven.

A lot depends on what you have amp power wise and speaker power wise.

If your speakers are much more powerful than your amp then you need a more powerful amp.

If your amp is the same as the speakers then you need a more powerful amp and more powerful speakers.

[Tony Scott]

If your going into the red then the amp is being overdriven.

A lot depends on what you have amp power wise and speaker power wise.

If your speakers are much more powerful than your amp then you need a more powerful amp.

If your amp is the same as the speakers then you need a more powerful amp and more powerful speakers.


If I understand the OP correctly I think he was saying that he had to turn up the bass to get the most out of his speakers and this caused his mixer output to go into the red, he didn't say his amp was being overdriven(although it probably was which is why I cautioned against it and asked what amp he had).

If all he want's to do is boost the bass freq's without turning up the mixer bass control then a cheap EQ would do the trick IMO, it sounds like this is what the cabs need, a bit of EQing around the low end? :)

[nigelwright7557]

If I understand the OP correctly I think he was saying that he had to turn up the bass to get the most out of his speakers and this caused his mixer output to go into the red, he didn't say his amp was being overdriven(although it probably was which is why I cautioned against it and asked what amp he had).

If all he want's to do is boost the bass freq's without turning up the mixer bass control then a cheap EQ would do the trick IMO, it sounds like this is what the cabs need, a bit of EQing around the low end? :)

But he has already tried this on his mixer.

Doing exactly the same thing on an EQ is gonna have the same effect.

[Tom]

The op's mixer was going in to the red. You go from the output of the mixer to the input of the eq then in to the amp. You can set the mixer at 0db output and change the eq. This will not affect the mixer at all.

[nigelwright7557]

The op's mixer was going in to the red. You go from the output of the mixer to the input of the eq then in to the amp. You can set the mixer at 0db output and change the eq. This will not affect the mixer at all.

No but it affect the levels into the amp and clip it.

All you have done is shift the problem to the EQ.

If you boost the bass at the EQ above midway then your amplifying it and so overdriving again.

[Tony Scott]

But he has already tried this on his mixer.

Doing exactly the same thing on an EQ is gonna have the same effect.

I disagree, he was concerned about his mixer going into the red and the posible effect it would have on his amp. I've used this mixer and it doesn't like having lots of EQ applied pre-fader(which is how it's signal path is configured, this way you hear the EQ'd signal in the Headphones cue).

So to get around the problem you give a nice controlled flat signal from the mixer to an EQ and let that do the job of shaping the low end, all you then need to do is lower the gains on the EQ so the amplifier is presented with the right level, the Behringer has an output VU and clip meters for each channel so it's easy to monitor! :)

That said I would still like to see what amp he has coz this could change the thinking somewhat.


The op's mixer was going in to the red. You go from the output of the mixer to the input of the eq then in to the amp. You can set the mixer at 0db output and change the eq. This will not affect the mixer at all.

I agree....:)

[nigelwright7557]

I disagree, he was concerned about his mixer going into the red and the posible effect it would have on his amp. I've used this mixer and it doesn't like having lots of EQ applied pre-fader(which is how it's signal path is configured, this way you hear the EQ'd signal in the Headphones).

So to get around the problem you give a nice controlled flat signal from the mixer to an EQ and let that do the job of shaping the low end! :)



I agree....:)

So you put 0dB into the EQ then boost the bass, surely thats going above the 0dB for the bass into the amp and gonna clip ?

Explain to me how you think it works....

[Tony Scott]

So you put 0dB into the EQ then boost the bass, surely thats going above the 0dB for the bass into the amp and gonna clip ?

Explain to me how you think it works....

The OP stated that he wanted to increase the bass signal to his speakers but by doing this on his mixer meant that the mixer started to go into the red(clipping).

What I'm suggesting is that because this mixer only has a basic 3 band EQ which when used hard overdrives the mixer's output stage he can 'shape' the sound using an external 15 band EQ.
The EQ gains can then be adjusted so that the EQ outputs are at 0db. It will then present a clean 0db signal to the amp.(regardless of how much bass boost has been applied).

End result is an EQ'd signal with no extra gain....simple! :)

[nigelwright7557]

What I'm suggesting is that because this mixer only has a basic 3 band EQ which when used hard overdrives the mixer's output stage he can 'shape' the sound using an external 15 band EQ.
The EQ gains can then be adjusted so that the EQ outputs are at 0db. It will then present a clean 0db signal to the amp.(regardless of how much bass boost has been applied).

End result is an EQ'd signal with no extra gain....simple! :)

The only way to do that would be too leave the bass at mid way and reduce the other frequencies.
Putting the bass above mid way would make it greater than 0dB and overload the amp.

[Tony Scott]

The only way to do that would be too leave the bass at mid way and reduce the other frequencies.
Putting the bass above mid way would make it greater than 0dB and overload the amp.


Ok let me put it another way.

1). I send a 0db signal from the mixer to the EQ.

2). I push up the 40hz, 63hz, 100hz & 160hz sliders and by doing so I increase the signal gain by 4db. (Signal now +4db)

3). I then use the EQ's gain controls to reduce the gain by 4db.

4). I now have 0db at the EQ's outputs even though I have boosted the bass frequencies.

This is not hard to do as long as you have an EQ with gains and VU meters. Even cheap EQ's have a headroom of at least +6db before the onset of clip so distortion within the EQ shouldn't be an issue.

EDIT: I'm going to bed now....night night! :)

[nigelwright7557]

Ok let me put it another way.

1). I send a 0db signal from the mixer to the EQ.

2). I push up the 40hz, 63hz, 100hz & 160hz sliders and by doing so I increase the signal gain by 4db. (Signal now +4db)

3). I then use the EQ's gain controls to reduce the gain by 4db.

4). I now have 0db at the EQ's outputs even though I have boosted the bass frequencies.

This is not hard to do as long as you have an EQ with gains and VU meters. Even cheap EQ's have a headroom of at least +6db before the onset of clip so distortion within the EQ shouldn't be an issue.



Sounds good to me.....