Working for free.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Would you work an hour for free?

Explain why.

[Penfold42]

*spits coffee out...*

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: FREE....your having a laff......:bang:

:D

[rob1963]

Would you work an hour for free?

No.


Explain why.

Because Rob James Entertainment is my business, not a hobby.

[par6]

Goodwill, customer satifaction, increase your "word of mouth" referrals, because I'm a giving sort of guy, basically because it would make the customer and myself feel good, can't think of any better reason really.
Why would you not?,venue restrictions aside.

[Penfold42]

Goodwill, customer satifaction, increase your "word of mouth" referrals, because I'm a giving sort of guy, basically because it would make the customer and myself feel good, can't think of any better reason really.
Why would you not?,venue restrictions aside.

Time is money....are you not a business with overheads? :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Goodwill, customer satifaction, increase your "word of mouth" referrals, because I'm a giving sort of guy, basically because it would make the customer and myself feel good, can't think of any better reason really.
Why would you not?,venue restrictions aside.

Because I run a business, not a charity or a hobby or something I do for a laugh. It has nothing to do with goodwill or customer satisfaction and I certainly wouldn't want a referral because I work for free.

[Kernow]

Would you work an hour for free?

Explain why.

Only for the missus ;)
To protect my health, wealth & safety :o

[par6]

Because I run a business, not a charity or a hobby or something I do for a laugh. It has nothing to do with goodwill or customer satisfaction and I certainly wouldn't want a referral because I work for free.
It has EVERYTHING to do with customer satisfaction, the modus operandi of your business is to keep the customer SATISFIED.

[Grahame Case]

i would not work for free for an hour or how long.

It just doesn't make any sense..

i've equipment costs, National Insurance, etc etc to pay for.


Par6, good luck with that, i can't possibly see how it would work.

[Jay]

No way

Time is money

[Babybob]

I have done several gigs which have gone over my allotted time but that has been my choice as I have enjoyed the gig. It depends on where your playing as some places employ staff on an hourly rate and they want to go home because rest assured they won't be getting £50- £60 per hour extra.
The other salient point is whether or not it is your business or hobby, it is my hobby so I regard the money I receive for doing the gig as extra cash for spending on upgrading my kit or other things that I would not normally use my main income for.

[par6]

i would not work for free for an hour or how long.

It just doesn't make any sense..

i've equipment costs, National Insurance, etc etc to pay for.


Par6, good luck with that, i can't possibly see how it would work.
Can't possibly see how it WOULDN'T work.
How's it going to cost you more in equipment costs and NI ? and don't say "'cos my bulbs are on for longer"

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Absolutely NO, NO, NO!

Par6 - It's all very well saying that it will do your reputation good etc etc but I think in the end it will damage you and you'll wonder why you ever did it. You would have created a monster and it will have turned on you!

Imagine it.

"Hey, there's a Disco guy down the road that plays an hour for free. Give him a call"....Ok, good because you get the call.

BUT

The person that calls you up may well have wanted you to play until midnight. The venue is booked until midnight and the venue people know that but the customer wants a cheaper price so instead of booking you from 8.00pm until Midnight, they book you (and you quote them) from 8.00pm until 11.00pm because you don't mind playing on until Midnight free of charge.

That, to me sounds absolutely mental.

What would you do come 11.00pm? Say the customer comes up and says "Well, I heard that you play for an hour for free"...How would you get out of that one? In my opinion, IF the customer booked me from 8-11 and it stated that on a signed booking form, then that's what they get me for. If they want longer then they pay for it.

I doubt if you'll catch my drift but I am pretty sure that before long, if you were to keep doing it...you would regret it.

[[email protected]]

Would you work an hour for free?

Explain why.

I guess it depends when that hour is?, a random 60 mins in the week, no.

For example if I was set up at a gig well before the start time and some guests arrive early, i would start playing some music, i wouldn't go and hassle the event organiser for more money, because people arrived early.

At the end of the night, i'd probably give them an extra 15mins or so for nothing, but would expect some kind of payment if i were to go on for anything over 20 mins.

Slightly off topic, do you meet with a client before their booking? Do you build a charge for your time into the quote or is it included? At what point do you meet them, after they have booked, or at the enquiry stage?

[Vectis]

I frequently invest my time in worthwhile causes for free.

But gigging? Nah. 10 minutes at the end of a well paid, well received gig maybe. An hour? £50 please :p

[DMX Will]

On a very rare occasion. But generally no, as everyone has said. Time is money.

[nigelwright7557]

I have often worked an extra hour for free but wouldnt do a gig for free unless it was a really good cause.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Nigel, we're not talking whole gigs here. We're talking about going over the agreed time etc..

[sleah]

As many of us charge something like a flat rate, rather than a specific hourly rate - i.e. you don't often say to the customer when they ask for a quote " I charge £48.75 per hour", then are you working for free or are you just effectively dropping your own hourly rate?

Think of quoteing for two weddings, both the same except one wants 5 hours and one wants 6.
If you were to divide the number of hours worked, would be figure be exactly the same for both? I honestly doubt it!

Food for thought there maybe?

OR is the OP asking would we work an extra hour for free, if asked once the gig was underway? In which case it's down to personal preference on a per gig basis I suppose.

[ppentertainments]

No. Unless it is one of my 2 chosen charities whom I provide free discos for.

All this talk about it getting more work is a load of rubbish.

[rob1963]

No. Unless it is one of my 2 chosen charities whom I provide free discos for.

All this talk about it getting more work is a load of rubbish.

Exactly.

All I can see is that you'll get taken for a mug, and will encourage tyre kickers.

[PropellerHeadCase]

I once played for two hours extra for free but that was very much a one off and is extremely unlikely to ever happen again (although I have been known to gift my wedding DJing services to friends in lieu of a present)...

The two hours extra was for the duty manager of one of my regular venues who I counted as a friend as well as a business contact for her 30th birthday - many of the guests were other staff, including, for a while, the MD... also, one of her friends who wasn't staff, was rather attractive, had a very attractive style of dancing, and danced to pretty much anything I played :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It has EVERYTHING to do with customer satisfaction, the modus operandi of your business is to keep the customer SATISFIED.

And if you do that by working for free, then you won't be in business long.

I have plenty of satisfied customers who pay me for what I do. You have plenty of satisfied customers because you do things for free. Who's the winner here?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I frequently invest my time in worthwhile causes for free.



I do too but that wasn't the question.

I am talking about DJing.

[rob1963]

I have plenty of satisfied customers who pay me for what I do. You have plenty of satisfied customers because you do things for free. Who's the winner here?

Very well put, Darren.

If a disco feel they have to give an extra hour free for the customer to be satisfied, that doesn't say much for the service they provide!

[Corabar Steve]

Goodwill, customer satifaction, increase your "word of mouth" referrals, because I'm a giving sort of guy, basically because it would make the customer and myself feel good, can't think of any better reason really.
Why would you not?,venue restrictions aside.
& the fact that it makes a complete mockery of your pricing structure (whatever it may be)?????????

[Daryll]

IF I am doing a gig at my local club , I may put a bit of background music on before the start time, this is only because I can set up at dinner time, and its 200 yards away.
Apart from that NO.

Daryll

[Cowlinn]

I'ld work for free....and do often, only partys though...and thats only because i'm younger so don't get work as easy ... and when i do free work, i do get hired back so good advertising for me i guess?

[wensleydale]

only if it secured me extra work and i was happy to- eg- do an extra hour and we'll book you to come back for xxxxx.
assuming the work was incremental and a decent job.

other than that, probably not- discounted perhaps, but i judge each job/request on its merits and i would make a call at the time- that's why i dont have fixed prices.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Absolutely NO, NO, NO!

Par6 - It's all very well saying that it will do your reputation good etc etc but I think in the end it will damage you and you'll wonder why you ever did it. You would have created a monster and it will have turned on you!

Imagine it.

"Hey, there's a Disco guy down the road that plays an hour for free. Give him a call"....Ok, good because you get the call.

BUT

The person that calls you up may well have wanted you to play until midnight. The venue is booked until midnight and the venue people know that but the customer wants a cheaper price so instead of booking you from 8.00pm until Midnight, they book you (and you quote them) from 8.00pm until 11.00pm because you don't mind playing on until Midnight free of charge.

That, to me sounds absolutely mental.

What would you do come 11.00pm? Say the customer comes up and says "Well, I heard that you play for an hour for free"...How would you get out of that one? In my opinion, IF the customer booked me from 8-11 and it stated that on a signed booking form, then that's what they get me for. If they want longer then they pay for it.

I doubt if you'll catch my drift but I am pretty sure that before long, if you were to keep doing it...you would regret it.

I know what par 6 means but i have to argee with you on this. Its one of the sure fire ways to get your buisness spoken about. Not just for your service but you play extra for free and everyone will expect it. If you say you cant or wont then it could cause the customer to become unhappy.

Of course you can always use it as a deal breaker should you need it


I'ld work for free....and do often, only partys though...and thats only because i'm younger so don't get work as easy ... and when i do free work, i do get hired back so good advertising for me i guess?

Its not that bad for you. Experience is something money cant buy. Depends how long you been doing it i guess?

[par6]

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people are givers and some are takers :(
But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.
How would you feel if after going to see your favourite group in concert perform one or two encores, due to you shouting more, they then had people stood at the exits asking for a few more £'s because the band were having such a good time they played on a bit and you got more than you paid for ?

[Steve the DJ]

Would you work an hour for free?

Explain why.

No, for reasons you have already alluded to.


...only if it secured me extra work and i was happy to- eg- do an extra hour and we'll book you to come back for xxxxx.
assuming the work was incremental and a decent job...

Isn't it funny what you get promised if someone wants you to do things for free? :D


I guess it comes down to the fact that some people are givers and some are takers :(

Wrong forum... :eek:



But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.


An extra hour isn't just a few songs though is it?

[Grahame Case]

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people are givers and some are takers :(
But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.
How would you feel if after going to see your favourite group in concert perform one or two encores, due to you shouting more, they then had people stood at the exits asking for a few more £'s because the band were having such a good time they played on a bit and you got more than you paid for ?

my answer is that the band already get enough of our hard earned money, a DJ is a completely different enterprise

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.


Exactly correct. Entertainment business

[Shakermaker Promotions]

The prices of tickets for some bands is high enough and most of us know the deal anyway when it comes to encores...they will always do them.

[Cowlinn]

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people are givers and some are takers :(
But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.
How would you feel if after going to see your favourite group in concert perform one or two encores, due to you shouting more, they then had people stood at the exits asking for a few more £'s because the band were having such a good time they played on a bit and you got more than you paid for ?

I love it. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Cowlinn]

Exactly correct. Entertainment business

This shocks me, how people can actully ask for more money at the end of the night just for doing a few more favours, a little good will...i guess with you people there really is "no such thing as a free lunch"

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

This shocks me, how people can actully ask for more money at the end of the night just for doing a few more favours, a little good will...i guess with you people there really is "no such thing as a free lunch"

Look, without being rude, you have no business experience and have already said you do free gigs as you don't get many paid ones.

Welcome to the real world, not one where you do the odd gig and can tell your mates you are a DJ and you have the kit.

For some people on here, this is a real business and a way of paying mortgage and feeding families.

[Tom]

No. Simple.


You want me to work an extra hour, then open your wallet and lets see how much of your money can keep me here.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

That's it!!
What is a matter with you people?
You really think you are going to be in this business and survive for that long by playing free gigs and overtime?

No.

[Grahame Case]

For some people on here, this is a real business and a way of paying mortgage and feeding families.

and even those of us who are semi professional still like to uphold the same standards and get a return on our sizeable investment in equipment and other things

I aspire to being Full time one day, and one day i may actually start making money!

[Jiggles]

We're all (well not all by the looks of it!) here to make money! Think of us as a shop. We try and give a good service to get more bookings while making maximum profits. That means freebies are out of it to most of us.

[Grahame Case]

We're all (well not all by the looks of it!) here to make money! Think of us as a shop. We try and give a good service to get more bookings while making maximum profits. That means freebies are out of it to most of us.

Whats a Freebie Callum?

i don't have that feature in my computerised pricing system, "computer says no"

[Jiggles]

Exactly!

[BeerFunk]

I have in the past, I didn't see any benefit from it really. The only time I'd play for free now is if it was in a relaxed 'unplugged'/freestyle environment - that would be for my enjoyment. It's not likely to happen though!


You want me to work an extra hour, then open your wallet and lets see how much of your money can keep me here.That sounds a bit arrogant :eek:

[par6]

my answer is that the band already get enough of our hard earned money, a DJ is a completely different enterprise

Well if you're not getting enough, charge more.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

and even those of us who are semi professional still like to uphold the same standards and get a return on our sizeable investment in equipment and other things



I wasn't discounting semi pro DJs Grahame. :)

[Danno13]

Well if you're not getting enough, charge more.

But how is that fair on the clients that don't want extra, over the agreed time?

[Grahame Case]

I wasn't discounting semi pro DJs Grahame. :)

or wannabe semi pros :)

[par6]

That's it!!
What is a matter with you people?
You really think you are going to be in this business and survive for that long by playing free gigs and overtime?

No.
23 years full time and counting says yes.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

would you have someone come to fix your boiler and once hes finished say can you look at my cooker?

Would you get your car washed and say can you do the misus's one for free?

Would you ask a painter to do your bedroom and once hes finished and done a good job say you can do the hallway for free?

Each industry works in its own way. Cant compare mega buck bands to hard working djs.

[par6]

Each industry works in its own way. Cant compare mega buck bands to hard working djs.
Why not exactly?

[Tom]

That sounds a bit arrogant :eek:

Business is business.


If anyone wants me to play for longer, then they will need to pay up.

[DJ INDIE]

It all depends on where you are in relation to your business. A full time business may not need to (or want to), whereas a new DJ with no clientbase may need to.

If you are new or trying to grow your business and reach potential new clients, then - if done correctly, working for free may pay off (doing wedding fayres / showcasing yourself and business etc perhaps family parties) but if someone asks you to play for free, at say a pub one night, you have to consider why they cant pay for this professional service (dont want to / dont need to etc). and what possible benefit can come from it - if you feel there is no future benefit from it then dont do it. (and never get strung along by empty promises from landlords etc).

If you do work for free - make sure you maximise yourself. have business cards ready - advertise well on the night etc.

The Entertainment Industry is different to other business in the way that people do remember a good entertainer, and if they happen to see you and like you they may rebook you and you then use that to grow your business.


Personally, I have utilised my free gigs/work when I was younger and now 99% probably wouldnt work for free. I have also been strung along in the past in the DJ world and the Band world and you are blind to the fact you are being used at the time.

If you do work for free - think it through thoroughly - and make sure something positive comes out of it, so that you dont have to work for free ever again!

[par6]

It all depends on where you are in relation to your business. A full time business may not need to (or want to), whereas a new DJ with no clientbase may need to.

If you are new or trying to grow your business and reach potential new clients, then - if done correctly, working for free may pay off (doing wedding fayres / showcasing yourself and business etc perhaps family parties) but if someone asks you to play for free, at say a pub one night, you have to consider why they cant pay for this professional service (dont want to / dont need to etc). and what possible benefit can come from it - if you feel there is no future benefit from it then dont do it. (and never get strung along by empty promises from landlords etc).

If you do work for free - make sure you maximise yourself. have business cards ready - advertise well on the night etc.

The Entertainment Industry is different to other business in the way that people do remember a good entertainer, and if they happen to see you and like you they may rebook you and you then use that to grow your business.


Personally, I have utilised my free gigs/work when I was younger and now 99% probably wouldnt work for free. I have also been strung along in the past in the DJ world and the Band world and you are blind to the fact you are being used at the time.

If you do work for free - think it through thoroughly - and make sure something positive comes out of it, so that you dont have to work for free ever again!
The "working for free" in the context of this thread, referred to playing extra time at a gig and how if at all you would charge.
Some say charge by the minute, i.e. 13 mins over equals £13, so at the end you ask the customer for the extra. Some say charge by the 1/4 hour and some ( me and a few Pm's) say they wouldn't charge.
Doing a full gig for free.......well thats something entirely different ;)

[Shaun]

Short answer to the original question = No.

[Penfold42]

Another short answer - I've just quoted £75 for 2hrs extra work.

[Danieleastwood.com]

Got to agree with the masses on this one.

when it comes to that "could you play on for another hour mate?" then yes, situation allowing, I would. But I charge for that time.

I charge because...

last week I had to spend £350 on repairs for the van
Today £50 + £30 for new business cards and design service
4 weeks ago. Gordon Brown wanted his wages
Tomorrow, Got to fill the van with diesel.

So, like everyone else, overheads of your business and personal life are the very reason of making money when you can.

Lest we forget, that usually, this 'hour' is very early in the morning, and can have a detrimental effect on weather I get to the late night kebab establishment ;-)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

IMO, anyone who wants to do something for free in business should open a soup kitchen!! :D

[nigelwright7557]

I have a bad habit of asking the start time but not the end time so the end often comes as a surprise to me !

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Professional as always...

[Cj_The_Dj]

I'ld work for free....and do often, only partys though...and thats only because i'm younger so don't get work as easy ... and when i do free work, i do get hired back so good advertising for me i guess?


I wouldn't work for free and I'm young. only did it once at school (only back ground music no lights ect) at a open evening but i had my logo/number put on school flyers :)

[nigelwright7557]

Professional as always...

I am just not in it for the money.

I make my money from a full time job and my software business.
Dont really care if I get paid or not for the disco work ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Mark Wild]

Can you use the word "work" & "free" in the same sentence when it comes to business?

"extra time is available upon request at £25 per half hour"




Dont really care if I get paid or not for the disco work !

:Censored:

[Penfold42]

I make my money from a full time job and my software business.
Dont really care if I get paid or not for the disco work ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Great statement that......

[nigelwright7557]

Can you use the word "work" & "free" in the same sentence when it comes to business?

"extra time is available upon request at £25 per half hour"

At that rate I would only be there 2 hours ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

"No Fee Nigel"....even gives Sid a run for his money :D

Granted Nigel you dont do it for the money, but you wouldnt seriously go out for free? :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I am just not in it for the money.

I make my money from a full time job and my software business.


Yes we know, you tell us often enough...;)

[Mark Wild]

At that rate I would only be there 2 hours ! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Why even bother charging? Your not bothered :)

[nigelwright7557]

Why even bother charging? Your not bothered :)

If I didnt charge people would wonder why and probably not book me.

[Grahame Case]

If I didnt charge people would wonder why and probably not book me.

au contraire!

"people would be thinking.... ah look at this guy he's clearly a mug, lets use him!"

[nigelwright7557]

au contraire!

"people would be thinking.... ah look at this guy he's clearly a mug, lets use him!"

I usually charge £100 for a local disco, just enough to keep most people happy. Even then some people ask why I am so cheap.

[Grahame Case]

I usually charge £100 for a local disco, just enough to keep most people happy. Even then some people ask why I am so cheap.

if i was being honest Nigel, i would ask too.

it is substantially lower than "the going rate" of most semi pros and pros in the north england area.

[Mark Wild]

people ask why I am so cheap.

And your normal response to that question is?

[Danno13]

Can we please stay on topic guys!

[nigelwright7557]

if i was being honest Nigel, i would ask too.

it is substantially lower than "the going rate" of most semi pros and pros in the north england area.

Going rate is about £120 - £200 for a typical birthday party gig.
I rang around last year.

[nigelwright7557]

And your normal response to that question is?

Same reason I gave earlier, I work full time and run my own business.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Can we please stay on topic guys!

Free...Cheap...Whats the difference really, its still lowering the value of the service that, most of us, provide. :)

[Mark Wild]

Same reason I gave earlier, I work full time and run my own business.

You should get some flyers with "FREE MOBILE DISCOS FOR EVERYONE" on, I think you'd be suprised at the positive response you get. :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Can we please stay on topic guys!

AHEM!

[rob1963]

But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.


An extra hour isn't just a few songs though is it?

Exactly.


Another short answer - I've just quoted £75 for 2hrs extra work.

If they want to book ME instead, they can have two extra lights for that!


Lest we forget, that usually, this 'hour' is very early in the morning

Very good point, Daniel.

How many OTHER businesses can you get to work after mdnight...let alone for FREE?

[nigelwright7557]

---Quote (Originally by par6)---
But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.
---End Quote---

You have to remember this group is very biased towards the pro DJ's point of view. These guys (unlike me) are trying to make a living from it.

For me there is nothing better than getting to the end of the night for everyone to shout more and I bang on a couple of extra tracks.

Even bands have been known to play a couple more if the audience shouts loud enough for more !

[rob1963]

For me there is nothing better than getting to the end of the night for everyone to shout more and I bang on a couple of extra tracks.

What about that saying "Always leave them wanting more"?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

What about that saying "Always leave them wanting more"?

I think if the crowd are vocal enough (in a positive mannor) about playing one more song then why not? I dont know where playing for an extra hour for free came from but its the most stupid idea ive heard and its a shame the thread got hijacked so to speak because its an interesting topic.

[nigelwright7557]

What about that saying "Always leave them wanting more"?

I tried that one Christmas, got home at 7am !
They still wanted me to play on......

[rob1963]

I think if the crowd are vocal enough (in a positive mannor) about playing one more song then why not?

The only time I MIGHT do this would be in a marquee in a private house.


I dont know where playing for an extra hour for free came from but its the most stupid idea ive heard

I believe it came from Par6's reply to this question:


Would you work an hour for free?

Explain why.

His reply being this:


Goodwill, customer satifaction, increase your "word of mouth" referrals, because I'm a giving sort of guy, basically because it would make the customer and myself feel good, can't think of any better reason really.
Why would you not?,venue restrictions aside.

I might be wrong, but I take that reply to be a "yes".

[Corabar Steve]

I guess it comes down to the fact that some people are givers and some are takers :(
& some run busiesses


But the way most of you guys deride the very notion of doing a few extra songs for free is appaling especially as your in the ENTERTAINMENT business.Just in case you missed the point above, the key word in in bold not upper case.

23 years full time and counting says yes.Yeah, well that explains a lot. We've got another I've been doing this for years & I know everything & don't need to learn anything new member I see.

I can't help wondering why you've actually bothered joining the forum as you clearly think that you know it all.
How would you feel if after going to see your favourite group in concert perform one or two encores, due to you shouting more, they then had people stood at the exits asking for a few more £'s because the band were having such a good time they played on a bit and you got more than you paid for ?
I think you'll find that the majority of (if not all) bands tend to factor the encores into their set list (they'll play them anyway unless they get booed off), many times saving their best / most well known songs for them. It's all planned & is certainly not a case of giving something extra for nothing.

[par6]

& some run busiesses
Just in case you missed the point above, the key word in in bold not upper case.
Yeah, well that explains a lot. We've got another I've been doing this for years & I know everything & don't need to learn anything new member I see.

I can't help wondering why you've actually bothered joining the forum as you clearly think that you know it all.
I think you'll find that the majority of (if not all) bands tend to factor the encores into their set list (they'll play them anyway unless they get booed off), many times saving their best / most well known songs for them. It's all planned & is certainly not a case of giving something extra for nothing.
And I think you'll find that the setlist of bands changes quite significantly from one gig to another and reading interviews with bands it's obvious that crowd reaction plays a large part in their performance and duration of the set, one night they'll play 17 songs the next 19, why do you think that is ?, 'cos they're human not robots, nothing is set in stone........except the T&C's of some DJ's who won't play after their agreed time no matter what...unless of course you cross their palm with silver, give a little, you may just get something back more important than money.

[rob1963]

I think you'll find that the majority of (if not all) bands tend to factor the encores into their set list (they'll play them anyway unless they get booed off), many times saving their best / most well known songs for them. It's all planned & is certainly not a case of giving something extra for nothing.

Indeed, and I don't think many of these encores go on for an HOUR, either!

:shrug:

[Shakermaker Promotions]

So, we've got another day ahead of going over the same old, same old thing again?

[Corabar Steve]

And I think you'll find that the setlist of bands changes quite significantly from one gig to another and reading interviews with bands it's obvious that crowd reaction plays a large part in their performance and duration of the set, one night they'll play 17 songs the next 19, why do you think that is ?, 'cos they're human not robots, nothing is set in stone
You've very obviously not been to as many gigs as me or been on tour with a band (either as a roedie of a fan following the tour), because it's quite obvious that you're not talking from personal experience.

[par6]

Jeez :confused: :confused: :confused: just go to any bands website and look at the gig reviews and set list played they are very very rarely the same, only cabaret bands play the same pre recorded sets, which i guess it what your experience is.

[par6]

Indeed, and I don't think many of these encores go on for an HOUR, either!

:shrug:
Never said they did, are you goading there?

[rob1963]

Never said they did, are you goading there?

Not at all...but there's someone on this forum who DEFINATELY has been over the last 24 hours.

[Corabar Steve]

Jeez :confused: :confused: :confused: just go to any bands website and look at the gig reviews and set list played they are very very rarely the same, only cabaret bands play the same pre recorded sets, which i guess it what your experience is.
Yeah, caberet bands like Motorhead, the Ramones, Black Sabbath, Tom Jones, the Mavericks, Lionel Richie, the Brian Setzer Orchestra, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Metallica, the Sonics, the Rolling Stones, the Stray Cats, All About Eve, Big Country, Hanoi Rocks, Kraftwerk, Devo, the Cult...... I could go on but I won't. In fact the only band that I can think of that I've seen on consecutive nights that hasn't played the same set is the Black Crowes & that was at a series of "secret gigs" that they had made it known that they would be playing completely different sets each night.

But you obviously know better than me..............:sarc:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

:agree: Last one that springs to mind for me is Iron Maiden.

In general you get all the tracks off the new album (hence why there touring anyway) peppered with a few classics.

Incidentally, i was in charge of getting the bands in one of the pubs i worked. Even local cover bands play the same tracks time and time again, because theyve proven to work!

[par6]

Yeah, caberet bands like Motorhead, the Ramones, Black Sabbath, Tom Jones, the Mavericks, Lionel Richie, the Brian Setzer Orchestra, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Metallica, the Sonics, the Rolling Stones, the Stray Cats, All About Eve, Big Country, Hanoi Rocks, Kraftwerk, Devo, the Cult...... I could go on but I won't. In fact the only band that I can think of that I've seen on consecutive nights that hasn't played the same set is the Black Crowes & that was at a series of "secret gigs" that they had made it known that they would be playing completely different sets each night.

But you obviously know better than me..............:sarc:
So your saying that all those bands play the same songs, same amount of songs and in the same order, night after night ??..........you need to get out more and step away from the keyboard.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

..........you need to get out more and step away from the keyboard.

If I was you, I'd take a back seat on this forum now. That is friendly advice.

[par6]

If I was you, I'd take a back seat on this forum now. That is friendly advice.
I'll stick around a while more...........you may just learn something :beer1:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'll stick around a while more...........you may just learn something :beer1:

I don't think so. Not from you.

[par6]

I don't think so. Not from you.
You will, but only if you open your mind, you CAN change, really, you can ;)

[Shaun]

Deep breath everyone. :)


Let's try steer this back on topic please.

[Corabar Steve]

you need to get out more and step away from the keyboard.
& you need to watch what you say sunshine!
So your saying that all those bands play the same songs, same amount of songs and in the same order, night after night ?? From personal experience, I will say yes for some of them. But irrespective of whether they all do it or not (& you'll find that most bands of headline status do), my point is & regaining some relevance to the thread topic, that the venues they play in have cerfews for the times music can be played until & the bands don't go over that time. Regardless of whether they do an encore or not. Encore songs are built into the set lists for timing purposes & regardless of whether the encore is used (most do otherwise the arrogance of saving your biggest hit for an encore song & assuming that the crowd will want an encore in the first place, would be foolhardy as well as arrogant) they do not overrun the cerfew time & certainly don't give a few extra songs for free.

[Shaun]

Enough already!

:ontopic:

[Corabar Steve]

Enough already!

:ontopic:I was trying to!


my point is & regaining some relevance to the thread topic............

Encore songs are built into the set lists for timing purposes & regardless of whether the encore is used (most do otherwise the arrogance of saving your biggest hit for an encore song & assuming that the crowd will want an encore in the first place, would be foolhardy as well as arrogant) they do not overrun the cerfew time & certainly don't give a few extra songs for free.

[par6]

& you need to watch what you say sunshine!From personal experience, I will say yes for some of them. But irrespective of whether they all do it or not (& you'll find that most bands of headline status do), my point is & regaining some relevance to the thread topic, that the venues they play in have cerfews for the times music can be played until & the bands don't go over that time. Regardless of whether they do an encore or not. Encore songs are built into the set lists for timing purposes & regardless of whether the encore is used (most do otherwise the arrogance of saving your biggest hit for an encore song & assuming that the crowd will want an encore in the first place, would be foolhardy as well as arrogant) they do not overrun the cerfew time & certainly don't give a few extra songs for free.
And if one night, as quite often happens, the band played a second encore would you expect their management to be waiting by the exits to collect more money as you got more than last nights crowd :confused:

[par6]

& you need to watch what you say sunshine!

Using terms like "sunshine" in that context does you no favours and comes across as quite bullying and aggresive and your better than that :beer1:

[Corabar Steve]

Do you have some sort of selective word blindness????

Go back & read the whole of the post you quoted & then re think that ridiculous statement.

[par6]

which statement?

[Corabar Steve]

Using terms like "sunshine" in that context does you no favours and comes across as quite bullying and aggresive and your better than that :beer1:
One time too many matey!

You can cool off in the sin bin for a while & maybe have a think about the way you've been treating folks on here.

[Corabar Steve]

which statement?


And if one night, as quite often happens, the band played a second encore would you expect their management to be waiting by the exits to collect more money as you got more than last nights crowd :confused:
That one.

[par6]

It was a genuine question in relation to the original post about playing extra time for free, bands do it, I do it, folks who believe in going that extra mile above and beyond the call of duty do it, if you don't then fine, live and let live :beer1:

[Corabar Steve]

You're not getting it are you. Bands don't, they have a set time to finish, they build their sets so that the encores fall within the time allotted & they finish on time. Certain venues have even been known to fine bands for overrunning, so the bands certainly don't push thier luck when playing there.

[par6]

You're not getting it are you, NO band plays for the same amount of time or the same mount of songs every night, do some research, some audiences get more than others.
Eric Clapton played 21 continuous nights at the Albert Hall a few years back and every nights playlist and running time was different because he's human, some got more songs and didn't get charged extra for the privilege.

[Corabar Steve]

I suggest that you re-read what I've said.

The content may well vary, especially in a situation such as the one you just mentioned. What doesn't vary is the finish time / stage curfew time & many venues do penalize artists that overrun, the bands don't think it's worth the hassle & stop when they're supposed to.


Edit: (& off topic) Many many bands do play the same set every night of the tour. I know this from personal experience.

[Javlingames]

This is getting boring now

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

This is getting boring now

I suggest not reading it then. :)

[par6]

I suggest that you re-read what I've said.

The content may well vary, especially in a situation such as the one you just mentioned. What doesn't vary is the finish time / stage curfew time & many venues do peanalized artists that overrun, the bands don't think it's worth the hassle & stop when they're supposed to.
And some don't stop, saw Guns and roses at Maine road circa 1991 and they played over 15 minutes past the curfew, got fined £5000 for every minute over by Manchester City council and STILL didn't collect more money off us on the way out.

[Javlingames]

I suggest not reading it then. :)

Well they just seem to be going over the same stuff,

[par6]

I suggest that you re-read what I've said.

The content may well vary, especially in a situation such as the one you just mentioned. What doesn't vary is the finish time / stage curfew time & many venues do penalize artists that overrun, the bands don't think it's worth the hassle & stop when they're supposed to.


Edit: (& off topic) Many many bands do play the same set every night of the tour. I know this from personal experience.
and the rest don't.

[ppentertainments]

This is getting boring now

On the contrary. It's always interesting when one person tries to take on the masses. :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Right, back to the original topic now. I will delete anything not related, so don't bother posting it.

[sleah]

I believe there can be an appropriate occasion where you may play on for a while for free.
Such as a regular client in a regular venue, could be a local pub disco.
The client may ask for an extra 20mins or half hour at the Christmas gig, to give the plebs a little something extra.

Everyone has to agree, the venue also have to work the extra time, even if the bar is closed they can't go home.
I can't see any harm if it keeps a regular sweet who gives you regular business, the same applies to the venue. Think of it like a loyalty bonus or discount.

As for one off's then why should you and the venue work extra unpaid.... the client should have booked longer hours!

[Jonathan Ford]

The only thing I do for free is the PA and music at my local cricket clubs bonfire party...and that's more of a trade then a freebie. I get to advertise, my family get into the bonfire and fireworks for nowt, and I get loads of business over the year.

Also, I used to do a free Christmas party for the staff at my hotel resdiency every year, to say thanks for a years worth of bookings, generally on a Sunday night in January.

In terms of running over time, I'll give anyone a couple of extra songs if the venue allow it. Anymore than that and it's money up front.

[rob1963]

I believe there can be an appropriate occasion where you may play on for a while for free.

Possibly, but I guess it depends on what kind of venues you're working in.

Most of my own work is in nice hotels, and there are licences until certain times, so I can't usually go over without getting into trouble & alienating myself from venue staff...which is the last thing I want to do.

If I'm setting up & an official comes up to me, it's nearly always for two reasons. Firstly to check I don't have a smoke machine & secondly to tell me the time when the music must finish.

If they say midnight, I take that to mean midnight & not five past.

[Steve the DJ]

Most of my own work is in nice hotels, and there are licences until certain times, so I can't usually go over without getting into trouble & alienating myself from venue staff...which is the last thing I want to do.

If I'm setting up & an official comes up to me, it's nearly always for two reasons. Firstly to check I don't have a smoke machine & secondly to tell me the time when the music must finish.

If they say midnight, I take that to mean midnight & not five past.

Agreed.

I have only been in one venue in the last 2 years where that hasn't been the case.

If I want to work again in a venue then the last thing I can afford to do is upset the licence holder.

[Grahame Case]

When i said i never work for free, that isn't strictly the case.

This Sunday, at a very expensive venue, who do over a hundred weddings yearly, I'm paying £150 to exhibit as a stall holder at their wedding fair, but i am also providing the music for the fashion show and throughout the day F.O.C.

my reasons are, if i create a bit of goodwill with the event co-ordinators there, it should help in my favour in future, anything like this that has a bit of positive chance of return is well worth doing for Nothing.

i'd be there anyway, and it allows me to showcase my sound system.

[ppentertainments]

When i said i never work for free, that isn't strictly the case.

This Sunday, at a very expensive venue, who do over a hundred weddings yearly, I'm paying £150 to exhibit as a stall holder at their wedding fair, but i am also providing the music for the fashion show and throughout the day F.O.C.

my reasons are, if i create a bit of goodwill with the event co-ordinators there, it should help in my favour in future, anything like this that has a bit of positive chance of return is well worth doing for Nothing.

i'd be there anyway, and it allows me to showcase my sound system.

I think I have told you before but I think you are making a mistake with what you are paying and the free services you are offering. A lot of this 'goodwill' does not get returned in the real world. I have done Music and/or lighting for wedding fayres in the past and have either charged for it or was given my table free.

Saying that, I really do hope it goes well for you as I know you have put a lot of work into this weekend - do let us know how you get on.

[Grahame Case]

I think I have told you before but I think you are making a mistake with what you are paying and the free services you are offering. A lot of this 'goodwill' does not get returned in the real world. I have done Music and/or lighting for wedding fayres in the past and have either charged for it or was given my table free.

Saying that, I really do hope it goes well for you as I know you have put a lot of work into this weekend - do let us know how you get on.

PP - pm coming your way, moving this off the forum to keep the thread clear