Help me make my choice

[Alchemy]

Hi Everyone,

I'm in the market for another pair of active speakers. I'll keep my Gemini GX 1201's as backup but want to spend my budget (1200€) wisely. My shortlist is probably unsurprisingly:

RCF ART 310 A

JBL EON 15 G2

MACKIE SRM 450 V2

Where I live I don't have the luxury of a nearby music store where I can listen and compare so I'll be mail ordering from Thoman. I would be very interested to hear your opinions on these 3 (and any other options to consider) I play to varying sized crowds 25 - 100, indoors and out, so I need flexibilty above all.

[Tony Scott]

*The RCF310 is a lovely sounding cab but you would need a Sub, 10" is a bit restricting.

*The Mackie will give you more bottom end so no Sub required for your application, a little bit of EQing, lower the top and lift the the mids and they sound great.

*Not heard the JBL so no opinion other than they get good reviews, but you probably know that.

If it was me I would go for the RCF + A nice sub! :)

[Alchemy]

Thanks Tony,

I have an active sub on my wish list, but at the moment it would blow my budget wide apart. I take your point though, the 10" speaker does compromise this choice. I've looked at the RCF ART 322A but that is over 200€ per cab more expensive.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If you are using the cabs on their own, then the Mackies. The RCF aren't going to be man enough on their own. I can't really comment on the JBLs as I haven't heard them.

[1st Choice Karaoke]

Mackies... the v2s sound lovely with a decent eq... and a decent punchy bass for the size... and pretty light too compared to the old ones.

[Alchemy]

Do the Mackie V2's run cooler than the earlier model? Overheating seems to be most peoples major criticism.

[OllieJames]

I have V1s, and mine have never overheated.

[1st Choice Karaoke]

Do the Mackie V2's run cooler than the earlier model? Overheating seems to be most peoples major criticism.


Had mine for 3 months or so, run loud enough for the clip/peak light to flash on occassion, no probs so far. deffo much cooler than the v1s were.

[A1DL]

I can comment on the EONs - in my opinion the worst sounding boxes to ever come out of the JBL stable.

Why oh why, back in the mid 90s, did they stop making the lovely, heavy old M330s and M350s and launch the EONs? Harsh sounding boxes, horrible.

[Pe7e]

I can comment on the EONs - in my opinion the worst sounding boxes to ever come out of the JBL stable.


My opinion exactly, they don't do JBL's reputation any good whatsoever

[Javlingames]

I can comment on the EONs - in my opinion the worst sounding boxes to ever come out of the JBL stable.

Why oh why, back in the mid 90s, did they stop making the lovely, heavy old M330s and M350s and launch the EONs? Harsh sounding boxes, horrible.

Its all in the EQ my friend

[Excalibur]

I can comment on the EONs - in my opinion the worst sounding boxes to ever come out of the JBL stable.

Why oh why, back in the mid 90s, did they stop making the lovely, heavy old M330s and M350s and launch the EONs? Harsh sounding boxes, horrible.


My opinion exactly, they don't do JBL's reputation any good whatsoever


Its all in the EQ my friend

Hmmmmmm. Personally, I wouldn't presume to tell Tony how to set up PA gear. He knows more about it than I do, so I keep quiet.

[Alchemy]

Surely though, the speaker should at least sound reasonable at normal EQ settings, after all the sound engineers who design and build the speakers are tweaking them to their personnal preferences aren't they? If they need loads of equalization that doesn't say much for the design (in my opinion).

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Surely though, the speaker should at least sound reasonable at normal EQ settings, after all the sound engineers who design and build the speakers are tweaking them to their personnal preferences aren't they? If they need loads of equalization that doesn't say much for the design (in my opinion).

I agree. They shouldn't need too much fiddling with. That's why I can't see the point of all these gizmos and gadgets to make them sound better.

[Javlingames]

Hmmmmmm. Personally, I wouldn't presume to tell Tony how to set up PA gear. He knows more about it than I do, so I keep quiet.

I am just stating that with a tweak here and there you can set it to YOUR preference

[Tom]

Do the Mackie V2's run cooler than the earlier model? Overheating seems to be most peoples major criticism.

I run the V2s and have been for a while now. They run very cool compared to the V1s. They will require a little eq but I think they are a great sounding cab for the money.

[Tom]

I agree. They shouldn't need too much fiddling with. That's why I can't see the point of all these gizmos and gadgets to make them sound better.

But if you wanted too would you not want to get a better sound from your speakers
?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But if you wanted too would you not want to get a better sound from your speakers
?

Then you should have bought more expensive cabs. I don't fiddle around with mine and get a very very good sound. Why would I want to buy some cheap Behringer gizmo when I already have a decent sound?

[A1DL]

I agree. They shouldn't need too much fiddling with. That's why I can't see the point of all these gizmos and gadgets to make them sound better.

:agree:

and the better quality the cab, the less external processing required, as the reproduction will be closer to "natural" without the cab colouring the sound.

[Tom]

Then you should have bought more expensive cabs. I don't fiddle around with mine and get a very very good sound. Why would I want to buy some cheap Behringer gizmo when I already have a decent sound?


Surley price is not everything???

I am very happy with the sound my system gives me but I bought the behringer gizmo to give me more bass around the 40/50hz range where a mixer eq cannot give.


:agree:

and the better quality the cab, the less external processing required, as the reproduction will be closer to "natural" without the cab colouring the sound.


So what about DB Audio cabs and amps then???

Very good cabs, but when used with the DB amps then its another whole different story. The amps use a lot of processing to get the sound they make, which from what I have read, is fantastic.

I know you know this A1DL bu this post was more pointed at Darren. :)

From the manual, the amp (d12)uses

Delay
User EQ
System EQ/XO
Coil Temp
Dynamics
Excursion control as well as more im sure.



No speaker cab is perfect, how ever well designed the cab may be. Every room is different and any speaker can sound different from one room to the next.

Even at BPM I believe, on the Void stand they had some kind of eq for the speakers. Void are supossed to be very very good speakers, yet they still had eq or somthing like that on the day.

The behringer gizmo is handy as I can try to get a flat sound and also it has more toys like auto align which can help get rid of phase cancellations, mainly when the speakers are close together in a small setup.

This like this help improve the sound.


Everybody is different. :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Surley price is not everything???

I am very happy with the sound my system gives me but I bought the behringer gizmo to give me more bass around the 40/50hz range where a mixer eq cannot give.


No, price isn't everything- that isn't what I was trying to say. Buy cabs that do what you want and sound how you want and if you are fussy (like you sound you are!), then you'll have to pay a little more or build your own (like you are)

Imagine that an R&D team spent years making a decent cab and then someone comes along with a £100 Behringer spatilizing, bass boosting, wangsprocket harmoniser to put a bit more bass on it...

[Tom]

No, price isn't everything- that isn't what I was trying to say. Buy cabs that do what you want and sound how you want and if you are fussy (like you sound you are!), then you'll have to pay a little more or build your own (like you are)

Imagine that an R&D team spent years making a decent cab and then someone comes along with a £100 Behringer spatilizing, bass boosting, wangsprocket harmoniser to put a bit more bass on it...


Ok, I agree with. Stuff like the bass boosting is asking for trouble imo but if you know what to do then it can be quite safe.

As for better sound, I will be building my own speakers. I have been talking to someone who imports a certain brand of speaker. He gave me a good price so it looks good so far. :)

Anyway, lol.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

As for better sound, I will be building my own speakers. I have been talking to someone who imports a certain brand of speaker. He gave me a good price so it looks good so far. :)



I look forward to hearing them. :)

[Tom]

I look forward to hearing them. :)

Just need to save for the parts as well as other bits and pieces.

Need to source a internal crossover now. :(

[A1DL]

So what about DB Audio cabs and amps then???

Very good cabs, but when used with the DB amps then its another whole different story. The amps use a lot of processing to get the sound they make, which from what I have read, is fantastic.


Hi Tom, a couple of points:

(1) with the exception of some of the MAX monitors, all d&b audiotechnik speakers MUST be used with proprietory amplifiers. It's not optional & failure to do so may result in damage to the loudspeakers and will severely impair performance.

(2) Since we got Q, it's gone into lots of different rooms and with the exception of once, the DN360 has been bypassed for the whole event! In fact on the last couple of jobs, knowing the rooms, the EQ rack hasn't even been loaded! Sure the D12s do loads of clever stuff, at £3k a lump so they should - they're the engine management system and work in perfect harmony with the boxes. If I put a BMW engine management system in my Merc, I doubt it would go as fast or be as fuel efficient... get my drift?


Tony

[A1DL]

Imagine that an R&D team spent years making a decent cab and then someone comes along with a £100 Behringer spatilizing, bass boosting, wangsprocket harmoniser to put a bit more bass on it...

get it right please, bossman, surely that should be:

ULTRA Spatilizer Pro

and

ULTRA Basssprocket Harmoniser Pro

:p

[Tom]

Hi Tom, a couple of points:

(1) with the exception of some of the MAX monitors, all d&b audiotechnik speakers MUST be used with proprietory amplifiers. It's not optional & failure to do so may result in damage to the loudspeakers and will severely impair performance.



I have read that you can use different amps on d&b speakers but you get a much reduced output. I think this is where all the processing comes in to play.




(2) Since we got Q, it's gone into lots of different rooms and with the exception of once, the DN360 has been bypassed for the whole event! In fact on the last couple of jobs, knowing the rooms, the EQ rack hasn't even been loaded! Sure the D12s do loads of clever stuff, at £3k a lump so they should - they're the engine management system and work in perfect harmony with the boxes. If I put a BMW engine management system in my Merc, I doubt it would go as fast or be as fuel efficient... get my drift?


Tony

I understand what you mean. :)

The amps and cabs have been designed to work with eachother and nothing else. Thats the great thing about these amps and speakers.

My point I was trying to make was processing can help improve the sound. In d&b's case, it helps inprove the sound and also get a much higher spl output with using all this processing combined with high efficency speakers but that got me thinking.

For all we know, they could be using a standard 200 watt speaker rated at 100db 1w@1m but with a lot of processing that can help achieve very high spl output with eq, limiter, excursion control ect ect, the list goes on. lol.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Personally, i would go with the RCF...and buy Andys sub off him http://www.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=19248

I rate RCF over Mackie any day (after a fair bit of trepidation).....

[Excalibur]

Surley price is not everything???

:)
Nah, but size is. :sofa:




Imagine that an R&D team spent years making a decent cab and then someone comes along with a £100 Behringer spatilizing, bass boosting, wangsprocket harmoniser to put a bit more bass on it...
I've been looking at incorporating one of those in my rack for a long time. If the price drops, then I shall get one. ;)

As for better sound, I will be building my own speakers. .
Steady lads, I think Nigel's back. :eek:


I look forward to hearing them. :)
As do we all. :approve:

Just need to save for the parts as well as other bits and pieces.

Need to source a internal crossover now. :(

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3389
Always glad to help. ;)

[JAMdisco]

...then someone comes along with a £100 Behringer spatilizing, bass boosting, wangsprocket harmoniser to put a bit more bass on it...

I want one, I want one :D :D :D

Given the OP question I would be tempted to go for the Mackies SRM450 v2's as apparently they don't overheat :p and they should give you the bass that you require on their own.

Have you seen the new 15" HD Mackie cabs, there's a thread on it on here. Not sure about the price though but the 2-way system should be more than adequate for your needs.

[Alchemy]

Thank you Justin for dragging this thread back on topic. ;)

I can't find anyone who stocks the Mackie HD1521 at the moment, but looking at the spec's (1600w peak) I think these may be out of my budget (Be nice if I was wrong though).

I am fast coming to the conclusion that the Mackie V2's are the way forward for me ............................(unless someone knows better)

ps It goes without saying that I will be constructing my own actives as soon as I finish reading "Building Your Own Brand Beating Active Speakers for Dummies"