Speaker dilemma

[paulrimmer]

Hi all,

I'm looking at going full time within the next few months, having been DJing at weekends using a mates equipment for about 5 years. Anyway, I need to get some equipment of my own and think that my biggest outlay should be the speakers. My mates speakers are JBL MRX 515s with MRX 518 bass bins which are the mutts nuts but way out of my price range. The speakers I've been looking at are:

Mackie 450v2
JBL JRX115 with a JRX 118 bass bin
Behringer 215a (as they are cheap)
Class D CD15P with a Bass Bin (undecided which one)

I've searched the various threads on this site, hence the reason I'm considering the Class D's as they seem to get good feedback. In terms of budget, the Mackies would be at the very, very top end. I know the 450v1's are cheaper but I'm worried about the overheating issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

[rob1963]

Hi all,

I'm looking at going full time within the next few months, having been DJing at weekends using a mates equipment for about 5 years. Anyway, I need to get some equipment of my own and think that my biggest outlay should be the speakers. My mates speakers are JBL MRX 515s with MRX 518 bass bins which are the mutts nuts but way out of my price range. The speakers I've been looking at are:

Mackie 450v2
JBL JRX115 with a JRX 118 bass bin
Behringer 215a (as they are cheap)
Class D CD15P with a Bass Bin (undecided which one)

I've searched the various threads on this site, hence the reason I'm considering the Class D's as they seem to get good feedback. In terms of budget, the Mackies would be at the very, very top end. I know the 450v1's are cheaper but I'm worried about the overheating issue.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

Hi Paul,

Nice to see another Surrey DJ on the forum!

I'd vote for the Mackie 450 V2.

They are lighter than the V1, and because they use digital amplifiers, they produce much less heat...which should make them more reliable, as most amp faults are caused by heat.

I've read some good reviews of them, and thought they sounded great a few weeks ago when I was roadying for a forum colleague who uses them.

Hope this helps.

[1st Choice Karaoke]

If you can afford them the Mackie V2's are definately worth a go, they are light for the size and pretty punchy for a 12" speaker. They also have a much better sound than the JBL in my opinion... but i'm sure lots of people will come on and advise something else lol.

[Jiggles]

Mackies any version. I had my 450 V1 for a band night on Sunday (Pictures coming soon) and well with people screaming (I mean singing) down the mic they were only warm after 5 hours use.

[Cj_The_Dj]

I would go with the W-audio psr 15. no need for bass bins unless a masive venue.

Link (http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=1216&cat=237)

the're really good, sound nice, look nice and are light to say they have a amp in them.

[Spirits High]

I would go with the W-audio psr 15. no need for bass bins unless a masive venue.

Link (http://www.djkit.co.uk/product.php?id=1216&cat=237)

the're really good, sound nice, look nice and are light to say they have a amp in them.


:agree:


I use these aswell, they're greeeaaat :D

[paulrimmer]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I had a look at the psr 15s and they look pretty good, so seems its now between them and the mackies. One more question on the Mackies, would I need a bass bin for medium sized venues eg 200ish people? Thanks again.

[DJMaxG]

Active Speakers are known to be less reliable.
I know this because everytime I hear about broken speakers from DJs, they always happen to be active.

2 X SRM 450s - 800w RMS of Sound

Rule : 1 Person uses up 1 watt of sound.

That Question depends on the Size of the room, I would definately consider using a pair of Sub woofers for anything larger than a Pub.

You can of course just use one sub, only problem is, knowing where to put it.

Using 2 X Top Cabs and 2 X Sub woofers, if one sub goes down, you can just run off the one. But if a top cab goes down, it is just going to sound absolutely rubbish, as you don't get the full stereo effect.

It's always worth taking one extra cab as backup, or an entire sound system.

[paulrimmer]

2 X SRM 450s - 800w RMS of Sound

Rule : 1 Person uses up 1 watt of sound.

That Question depends on the Size of the room, I would definately consider using a pair of Sub woofers for anything larger than a Pub.

You can of course just use one sub, only problem is, knowing where to put it.

Using 2 X Top Cabs and 2 X Sub woofers, if one sub goes down, you can just run off the one. But if a top cab goes down, it is just going to sound absolutely rubbish, as you don't get the full stereo effect.

It's always worth taking one extra cab as backup, or an entire sound system.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a watt a unit of power, not a unit of sound. Also if its 1 unit per person then surely a pair of Mackies will be good for up to 800 people. To those of you using the PSR 15s, how easy are they to put on the stands, they seem pretty heavy at 30kg.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Not meaning to put a fly in the ointment of the Mackie lovers but I use JBL and have never had a problem with them not being loud enough. The set your mate has are as you say, the mutts nuts.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Rule : 1 Person uses up 1 watt of sound.


Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a watt a unit of power, not a unit of sound.

Thats what i thought too. You need to look at SPL (im sure someone will enlighten you more than me), but the higher the SPL the more efficient the driver.

Just to stick a spanner in the works, have you had a look at the RCF range. In particular the ART322A (bit more expensive i know, but worth every penny in my book). Im am now an RCF convert!, but skytec do a decent range too (im being deadly serious here btw, as others have heard me spout), nothing like your top range stuff, but good. :)

[A1DL]

Mackie 450v2
JBL JRX115 with a JRX 118 bass bin
Behringer 215a (as they are cheap)
Class D CD15P with a Bass Bin (undecided which one)


From that list I would say the JBL combination wins by far.
JRX are entry level JBL kit, however they sound very nice for the price

[Spirits High]

To those of you using the PSR 15s, how easy are they to put on the stands, they seem pretty heavy at 30kg.


Once you've done it a few times you're sorted. I find lift onto shoulder tilt slightly forward, align and on it goes. But yes they are heavy ;)

But look on the brightside, it saves on Gym membership :D :D

[Cj_The_Dj]

Once you've done it a few times you're sorted. I find lift onto shoulder tilt slightly forward, align and on it goes. But yes they are heavy ;)

But look on the bright side, it saves on Gym membership :D :D

there heavy but manageable. if you both handles you'll be fine don't use just one!

and to say they have amps is nothing compared to a pair of cloud B24s or a 18" mackie sub.

[Spirits High]

there heavy but manageable. If you use both handles you'll be fine don't use just one!

You say that Cj but my roadie I used to have when I was in Belfast used to carry one in each hand :eek: :eek:

He would have probably picked the deckstand up with his teeth aswell :D

[DJMaxG]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a watt a unit of power, not a unit of sound. Also if its 1 unit per person then surely a pair of Mackies will be good for up to 800 people. To those of you using the PSR 15s, how easy are they to put on the stands, they seem pretty heavy at 30kg.

I was told by the gentlemen at our local shop, that one person uses up one watt of sound. Basically, if there are 800 people, then 800 watts of sound would be deducted. So if you took an 800w system, you wouldn't be able to hear it, based on his principal.

One thing I would say is, If I could only have one sound system, I would probably go with 2 X JBL 18" Subs, and 2 X JBL 15" Top Cabs. Fully Passive.

From what I have heard, passive seems a lot more reliable.

[A1DL]

I was told by the gentlemen at our local shop, that one person uses up one watt of sound. Basically, if there are 800 people, then 800 watts of sound would be deducted. So if you took an 800w system, you wouldn't be able to hear it, based on his principal.


Maxwell, a few points;

1. Reading that nonsense first thing in the morning made me squirt coffee all over my desk. Thanks. :o

2. When people go out, what (pardon the pun) do they do with their allocated one watt of power. Note it is one watt of power, as we don't measure sound in watts.

3. This thing about not being able to hear the system, let's discuss... I'm assuming that if, as in your example, I was the unlucky 801th person to enter the room, I would not be able to hear anything. Fair enough, but if I were to push my way to the front, close up to the stacks, would I still not be able to hear anything (because I'm No. 801 in the room therefore doomed) or would I start to hear and someone else at the back lose the ability?

4. I don't disbelieve your source of this nugget of information, as "local disco shops" tend to be notorious for their "Derek & Clive"-esque scenes, where a clueless sales man/lad tries to impress the pimple faced wannabe international superstar DJ standing before him. Neither have a bloody clue, yet can engage in gloriously entertaining conversation of facts that defy the laws of physics.

5. Finally, in your opinion, how many people would these be OK for?
Bearing in mind they are only 200w. Just wondering, like...
http://www.toptech-tls.co.uk/images/c7_top_w.jpg

[DJMaxG]

Max, a few points;

1. Reading that nonsense first thing in the morning made me squirt coffee all over my desk. Thanks. :o

That's too bad then ;)



2. When people go out, what (pardon the pun) do they do with their allocated one watt of power. Note it is one watt of power, as we don't measure sound in watts.

I assume talking is what uses up the wattage.




3. This thing about not being able to hear the system, let's discuss... I'm assuming that if, as in your example, I was the unlucky 801th person to enter the room, I would not be able to hear anything. Fair enough, but if I were to push my way to the front, close up to the stacks, would I still not be able to hear anything (because I'm No. 801 in the room therefore doomed) or would I start to hear and someone else at the back lose the ability?

It's beginning to sound almost nonsence.



4. I don't disbelieve your source of this nugget of information, as "local disco shops" tend to be notorious for their "Derek & Clive"-esque scenes, where a clueless sales man/lad tries to impress the pimple faced wannabe international superstar DJ standing before him. Neither have a bloody clue, yet can engage in gloriously entertaining conversation of facts that defy the laws of physics.

5. Finally, in your opinion, how many people would these be OK for?
Bearing in mind they are only 200w. Just wondering, like...
http://www.toptech-tls.co.uk/images/c7_top_w.jpg

It is a Sub Woofer, and I don't know whether you would use one or two. Personal choice and venue quantity requirements. They are usually used with a pair of top cabs.

Judging by figures 2 X 200w = 400w, which would be suitable for a small function room.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Dear oh dear...

Max, why don't you listen and try and learn from an expert instead of listening to idiots on Youtube and in local shops, who have no idea what they are talking about.

[DJ Jules]

Judging by figures 2 X 200w = 400w, which would be suitable for a small function room.[/B]

I run with a 250w (RMS) a channel rig (just cheap 15" tops, no bins at present, though I'm hoping to rectify that today :D ) and it does the job for up to about 200 people - or in other words, it goes loud enough to put in a medium size hall full of people and still leave me with my ears ringing at the end of the night.

Now, my tops aren't great - I'm sure there are far more efficient cabs out there which produce much higher Sound Pressure Level's when driven with the same power, so I'm not sure how accurate, or even how useful that calculation about 1W = 1Person, is?

It is, however, valid to say that people do deflect and absorb sound, so putting more people into a room will reduce the Sound Pressure Level compared to an empty room (but so will adding curtains, a carpet or furniture), but I'm sure that it'd be really really hard to produce even a rough rule that could be used to predict how much power you'd need to produce a specific SPL in a venue of x size with y people in it?

I'm no expert either though, luckily I am going to go and see a man who is this afternoon ;)

Julian

[DJWilson]

I'm no expert either though, luckily I am going to go and see a man who is this afternoon ;)

Julian



Your meeting Max then ;) :p

[Pe7e]

It is a Sub Woofer, and I don't know whether you would use one or two. Personal choice and venue quantity requirements. They are usually used with a pair of top cabs.

Judging by figures 2 X 200w = 400w, which would be suitable for a small function room.


I'll help you out a bit here Max, as you're starting to make a bit of a plonker of yourself, the cab isn't a subwoofer, it's a mid top, and if you look close you will see it has flying points built in, that should give you a clue. Now have another guess. :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

you're starting to make a bit of a plonker of yourself,

Starting? :p :D

[CRAZY K]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a watt a unit of power, not a unit of sound. Also if its 1 unit per person then surely a pair of Mackies will be good for up to 800 people. To those of you using the PSR 15s, how easy are they to put on the stands, they seem pretty heavy at 30kg.

800 people
:Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh:

Wait for the experts to come along later.

Class D speakers are remarkably good value for what you pay---

Those 15 SPs combined with the bass driver 15N are pretty good--ive heard them. probably ok up to 150 people with a pair.

BUT only if you place the tops on the subs--trying to mount the 15SPs on poles was a job I couldnt manage.:eek:

Although I know a man in Yorkshire with bits of his finger missing who can do it:D :D :D

CRAZY K

[Larry B Entertainment]

I was told by the gentlemen at our local shop, that one person uses up one watt of sound. Basically, if there are 800 people, then 800 watts of sound would be deducted. So if you took an 800w system, you wouldn't be able to hear it, based on his principal.


Well in my 9 years experience of working as an AV tech, this has to be the most silly bit of technical advice I have ever heard :mad:

How can a human being physically consume a watt of power ?

What complete and utter :BS:

Im going to go now and lay down in a darkened room.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Max, you really don't seem to be helping yourself do you?
I have never read anything so stupid. A1's post was spot on regarding the 800 people classic....I couldn't stop laughing at that one.

As an extra I would also like to add this. When people attend a function that I am doing, my aim is to have the sound clear and loud enough for those on the dancefloor to enjoy it like a club atmosphere (ie...quite loud but not stupidly loud)...and for the rest of the venue, no matter how big or small it is, to be filled with sound..for example (I'll say it s l o w l y for you mate).... People on the dancefloor = Sound nice and loud and beefy. People at the bar or away from the dancefloor = Almost background music-like ie they can hear it but they can talk comfortably. Obviously all venues are different and it's not that often that I will have to do an 800 capacity venue.

Going on your example of 1 watt per person and 800 watts would be ok for 800 people (sorry...laughed again there)...Are you under the impression that wherever you go in a venue the required size to handle 800 people, that the sound is going to be the same level wherever you go in the venue...?...and especially by using 2 subs and 2 tops? Unless they are seriously heavy duty things or you have speakers allover the place then that aint going to happen.

Lastly, clubs are different by the way...they have multiple speakers spread around the venues with bass bins aswell (usually hidden or under the floor in some cases) and bigger budgets. As A1 also mentioned....JRX are entry level in the JBL range and JBL stuff is pretty pricey. I am quite happy to use them (I have 2 sets) even though I am not at entry level because I think they are great speakers. They sound even better with bass bins but I don't have JBL bins. I purchased some cheap and cheerful Peavey Pro Subs which are 400watts each just to fill out the sound a bit more.

[DJ Jules]

I purchased some cheap and cheerful Peavey Pro Subs which are 400watts each just to fill out the sound a bit more.

I've been trying to work out where Peavey fit in terms of Price and Quality since I started looking at buying PA gear a year ago - they're priced somewhere near the budget end, yet they seem to have a much higher reputation than the price suggests...?

I appreciate the name Peavey is pretty much legendary, but does anyone have an opinion on what you get for your money?

Julian

[A1DL]

I appreciate the name Peavey is pretty much legendary
Julian


so is the name Biffa :)

[DJ Jules]

so is the name Biffa :)

I think that might have answered my question... :p

[CRAZY K]

I've been trying to work out where Peavey fit in terms of Price and Quality since I started looking at buying PA gear a year ago - they're priced somewhere near the budget end, yet they seem to have a much higher reputation than the price suggests...?

I appreciate the name Peavey is pretty much legendary, but does anyone have an opinion on what you get for your money?

Julian

Well I have had the XR800f powered mixer and two Pro 15s plus Peavey Subs and found them totally reliable and a reasonable sound for general Entertainment work if you dont want to spend a vast amount of money.

Theres no reliability issues, if you want higher quality you then move to more expensive kit.

I think you will find people with connections in the live band market like them because they have a good reputation in that market especially America, Disco people probably dont share the same enthusiam.

I would love to move onto the UL15s but the new model seems extremely expensive so im retihinking that one.

CRAZY K

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I have the Peavey UL15's and for the price they are great speakers

The Peavey Pro range and under isnt that great however.

[Excalibur]

I've been trying to work out where Peavey fit in terms of Price and Quality since I started looking at buying PA gear a year ago - they're priced somewhere near the budget end, yet they seem to have a much higher reputation than the price suggests...?

I appreciate the name Peavey is pretty much legendary, but does anyone have an opinion on what you get for your money?

Julian
Marmite. ;) :D
At the risk of upsetting Crazy, I heard his Peavey rig the other day, ran it from his gear and mine against the Class D, and while the Peaveys were way louder, I personally preferred mine. Having said that, Having said that, I'm on record as saying that my ideal PA is Peavey UL15/UL115.


so is the name Biffa :)
Tony, I'm guessing that you're not as keen on Peavey as Alan. :confused:
Out of curiosity I'm interested to know if you've heard a Class D rig? ;) :D

[Daryll]

You can of course just use one sub, only problem is, knowing where to put it.




Most subs , by definition are omni directional , so it makes little difference where they are placed , under the deckstand is a good place , failing that , have it pointing toward the back wall ( or side ) , with out knowing the specs of the sub , this could be 4-15" .
For poor old mobile dj`s , were stuck between a rock and a hard place , the worst place to have subs is between 6 and 30+ feet apart , but one each side with the tops on poles looks very smart. this is probably a bit OTT for mobiles , but for permanent installations it need`s a lot of thought
There are articles on the web devoted to sub placement .
The bottom line would be , if they sound good , leave it alone :D

Daryll

[A1DL]

Tony, I'm guessing that you're not as keen on Peavey as Alan. :confused:


You could say that, Peter :cool: :p



Out of curiosity I'm interested to know if you've heard a Class D rig? ;) :D

Not that I'm aware, which is why I have always reserved judgement, as they do seem to have quite a following, particularly on here.

[CRAZY K]

Marmite. ;) :D
At the risk of upsetting Crazy, I heard his Peavey rig the other day, ran it from his gear and mine against the Class D, and while the Peaveys were way louder, I personally preferred mine. Having said that, Having said that, I'm on record as saying that my ideal PA is Peavey UL15/UL115.


:D

Mine too Peter, just too much weight im afraid.:eek:

Id buy a pair of Class D 15 CD SPs tomorrow if only I could get them on to a speaker pole. ;)

CRAZY NK

[DJMaxG]

I'll help you out a bit here Max, as you're starting to make a bit of a plonker of yourself, the cab isn't a subwoofer, it's a mid top, and if you look close you will see it has flying points built in, that should give you a clue. Now have another guess. :D

Right, Let's get one thing straight.
That is what the guy from our local disco shop said.

I would only use 800w for upto 100 People.

800 People - 2 to 4k

[QUOTE=shakermaker;344209]Max, you really don't seem to be helping yourself do you?
I have never read anything so stupid. A1's post was spot on regarding the 800 people classic....I couldn't stop laughing at that one.

Right ... Obviously I know what Bass Cabs are. That's like me pointing out to you what a Microphone cable looks like. I find it pathetic, that you'd point something out so obvious like that. You must have misread it.