What would you do

[spin mobile disco]

W had a few hypethetical threads on here recently and I thought of a good question to ask your selves. This based on something that happend recently to me.

You get a short notice booking from a venue you have never played before, their DJ cancelled on them very short notice and they booked you as a replacment. They ask that you do not let the clients ( for example a wedding) know that you are short notice as it will reflect badly on them as they arranged the disco.

Fair enough you think the money is ok and at least you are working that night. Evening goes well bride and groom very happy all seems ok. Venue pays you and you go home.

Now being a wedding you put a really nice show in for the night and its looks great. In fact much better than their regular DJ.

And that is the problem, they unbenownced to you took pictures of your equipment and the whole room partying to your disco.
You then find out that they are advertising their venue with pictures of your disco claiming it is their resident DJ's show. Your picture is now splashed across several well known magazines advertising their resident disco if people book their event there.

Now I would be pretty upset (in fact i was) now what would you do bearing in mind all this advertising is now ongoing and already been included in magazines etc.

[Tom]

I know I would be very very annoyed at the situation.

I think I would seek legal advice and take it from there.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

too damm right if they made no offer to make you the new dj I'd sue their backsides

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Yep i would also seak advice. First thing that springs to mind is falce advertising on the hotels part.

[soundmaster mobile disco]

Have you spoken to the hotel in question to try and solve this situation?

If so what was the reaction?

[rob1963]

I would contact them, ask them why there were using pictures of MY disco & claiming I was their resident disco when I was NOT, ask them to remove all pictures immediately & advise them I'd be seeking legal advice on the matter & that I looked forward to their response.

[PropellerHeadCase]

It's false advertising. Ask them nicely to cease and desist, followed by a lawyers letter asking the same, then dob 'em in for misrepresentation and sue them for using images of your set up without permission.

[CRAZY K]

It's false advertising. Ask them nicely to cease and desist, followed by a lawyers letter asking the same, then dob 'em in for misrepresentation and sue them for using images of your set up without permission.

Erm--is there a bigger picture here ?

Why not use this as a lever for getting more work from the Hotel in the first instance, pointing out that its YOUR equipment thats the star of the show and that you would have to CONSIDER calling your lawyer if you receive no further bookings despite the Hotel benefitting from the very positive images i.e. glossy photos of YOUR DISCO printed without your permission.

Image rights etc.

Mind you im not sure how you stand if you didnt have a term in your T and Cs that bans publication of photos.:confused:

You could also point out that unless the words " a recent Wedding Disco "
have been used and there is NO INFERENCE that this is the USUAL set up--they MAY be guilty of an offence of misleading advertising etc.

On top of that do the Hotel want complaints---thats nothing like it was in the adverts. :eek: :eek: :eek:

If your not going to be used other than the odd let down then potentially you may wish to claim---clearly you would need specialist advice---which may not be cheap and not cost effective.

CRAZY K

[spin mobile disco]

Please keep in mind it is already in circulation in magazines leaflets etc so damage is already started. But some good answers so far.

[CRAZY K]

Please keep in mind it is already in circulation in magazines leaflets etc so damage is already started. But some good answers so far.

Can we see any pictures Matt?

Alan
CRAZY K

[DiscoPromotions]

I do not think there is anything you can do unless you have terms and conditions signed stating that images of your business cannot be used without your express permission (which Crazy K mentioned)

As it is there establishment I think they have you over a barrel as they can claim it is promotional purposes that images can be used within their venue.

The only thing you have your side is that you are not their resident DJ. As agreement really needs to be available to prove that you are their resident DJ for that venue; if the images do not show your business name then there is nothing much you can do.

If however, your business name and image is used; which is clear visible you may have a glimmer of hope. If there is no agreement between you and the venue to use your business name and logo you may be able to approach it from that direction.

If any issue ends up going to solicitors; just remember that EVERYTHING needs to be squeaky clean from the word go.

The other alternative is that you could consider this as free advertising.

Jay (JP)

[rob1963]

I do not think there is anything you can do unless you have terms and conditions signed stating that images of your business cannot be used without your express permission

I'm not so sure about that.

I'm sure you aren't allowed to use a pic of someone elses set up without their permission, especially when misrepresentation is involved.

Isn't it similar with websites? You don't have to have a copyright message on the site, but that doesn't mean people can nick your pics & use them on their own site pretending it's their disco.


As it is there establishment I think they have you over a barrel as they can claim it is promotional purposes that images can be used within their venue.

It may be their establishemnt, but it's YOUR disco.

You say the images can be used within their venue, but that's the whole point, they're not. They are being used OUTSIDE the venue, in magazines, for example.


if the images do not show your business name then there is nothing much you can do.

So it's ok to steal & use someone elses pics, and use them to mis-represent your business...as long as they don't show the business name of the person you stole them from?

That's a new one on me!


The other alternative is that you could consider this as free advertising.

How is it free advertising if the disco name is not shown, and if the disco shown doesn't work at the venue in question anyway?

From what I can tell, there is no free advertising at all.

[DiscoPromotions]

Rob

Terms and conditions sets boundries of what can and can't be done.

As the cilents I work for in my day job do a lot of promotion work to sell to prospective cilents. I have it in my terms & conditions of my contract that no images of me can be used for any kind of promotion purpose.

This worked out a treat one day when they did a promotional video and I got paid to be off due to what was sent. I also made sure that was in as it was them who preventing me to complete my job.

People sign/agree with terms and conditions from ordering a pizza from Dominos to buying a house.

Why should hiring mobile Disco be any difference?

Do you have it your terms and conditions? (I know I need to add it)

JP

[DazzyD]

Erm--is there a bigger picture here ?

Why not use this as a lever for getting more work from the Hotel in the first instance, pointing out that its YOUR equipment thats the star of the show and that you would have to CONSIDER calling your lawyer if you receive no further bookings despite the Hotel benefitting from the very positive images i.e. glossy photos of YOUR DISCO printed without your permission.

Image rights etc.

Mind you im not sure how you stand if you didnt have a term in your T and Cs that bans publication of photos.:confused:

You could also point out that unless the words " a recent Wedding Disco "
have been used and there is NO INFERENCE that this is the USUAL set up--they MAY be guilty of an offence of misleading advertising etc.

On top of that do the Hotel want complaints---thats nothing like it was in the adverts. :eek: :eek: :eek:

If your not going to be used other than the odd let down then potentially you may wish to claim---clearly you would need specialist advice---which may not be cheap and not cost effective.

CRAZY K

Whilst I can appreciate where you're coming from, Alan, I think I'd be very unhappy about my images being used without my knowledge let alone my consent. Besides, the venue are operating illegally by advertising a service that, at the time of advertising, they cannot provide.

You're right that they could have included a disclaimer in their advertising - "Images may not be representative of the service provided". But, if they haven't, then they ARE guilty of deliberately trying to mislead customers which, I believe, is covered under the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. Because of this Act, it falls under the remit of your local Trading Standards so you should contact them. However, they have no power to get you any financial compensation for this so, if it's a monetary settlement you require, then you need to speak to your solicitor.


I do not think there is anything you can do unless you have terms and conditions signed stating that images of your business cannot be used without your express permission (which Crazy K mentioned)

As it is there establishment I think they have you over a barrel as they can claim it is promotional purposes that images can be used within their venue.

Not true. Even venue owners have to abide by advertising / trade legislation. They are not above the law.



The only thing you have your side is that you are not their resident DJ. As agreement really needs to be available to prove that you are their resident DJ for that venue; if the images do not show your business name then there is nothing much you can do.

Again, not true. As far as I'm aware you still have the right to choose who/what may/may not be associated with your image (Image Rights). What if the venue use your image to promote a sub-standard service? You will then be associated with that service and your reputation will suffer as a consequence.




The other alternative is that you could consider this as free advertising.

Jay (JP)

Just how is this free advertising? The venue is advertising their venue and their services not yours. I'm pretty sure they won't be publishing your contact details.

All in all, the venue are being very naughty here and, in the interests of consumer protection alone, should be brought to task over their actions.

[CRAZY K]

Whilst I can appreciate where you're coming from, Alan, I think I'd be very unhappy about my images being used without my knowledge let alone my consent. Besides, the venue are operating illegally by advertising a service that, at the time of advertising, they cannot provide.

You're right that they could have included a disclaimer in their advertising - "Images may not be representative of the service provided". But, if they haven't, then they ARE guilty of deliberately trying to mislead customers which, I believe, is covered under the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. Because of this Act, it falls under the remit of your local Trading Standards so you should contact them. However, they have no power to get you any financial compensation for this so, if it's a monetary settlement you require, then you need to speak to your solicitor.

.

Agreed, if you were successful in getting Trading Standards to make a prosecution or force a withdrawal/ apology from the Hotel then that would be a good sign should you wish to take legal action which would be a private matter.

It might be cheaper to start going down the Trading Standards route unless you can come to an amicable arrangement---either some guaranteed work or cash compensation for infringing your rights---

Be Mr Nice Guy to start with--:)

Hopefully you will get a response.

CRAZY K

[Excalibur]

Be Mr Nice Guy to start with--:)

Hopefully you will get a response.

CRAZY K

There's a very apposite phrase I love.

"Walk softly, and carry a big stick" ;) :D :D :D

[DiscoPromotions]

I think this topic can be discussed for many pages on this forum and may users on this can throw their 2 pennies in.

Looking at this practically:

1. What can be done to minimize damage/preception?
Apart from Spin Mobile Disco approaching the venue giving them some stiff words is there anything can be done.

Is it possible that he can contact this publications which they are advertising in to advise what is been published is in-accurate?

If it was me, I would find every publication they advertised in and get some legal advice. Following that I would put a plan together to resolve it quickly and effectivley.

2. How can this be prevented happening again in the future?

I will be updating terms and conditions to prevent this happening to us as business.

[DazzyD]

I think this topic can be discussed for many pages on this forum and may users on this can throw their 2 pennies in.

Looking at this practically:

1. What can be done to minimize damage/preception?
Apart from Spin Mobile Disco approaching the venue giving them some stiff words is there anything can be done.

Is it possible that he can contact this publications which they are advertising in to advise what is been published is in-accurate?

If it was me, I would find every publication they advertised in and get some legal advice. Following that I would put a plan together to resolve it quickly and effectivley.

Once something is in print it has the potential to live forever. Last year I had an enquiry relating to an IT venture I was involved in. That project ended in 1997 but, somehow, someone still had one of my brochures! My point is that once things end up in print, it's practically impossible to reverse the impact it has. Because it's your image representing this service, it could come back to bite you on the backside several years down the line.


2. How can this be prevented happening again in the future?

I will be updating terms and conditions to prevent this happening to us as business.

If the venue are ignoring legistlation (ie the LAW) do you really think they're going to take notice of your Ts & Cs? I think not.

[DiscoPromotions]

Dazzy,

Regarding your throughts to point number 1 I agree with. If no action is taking place at the moment the more expouse is been given to their advertisements.

As for point 2, it is making it clear from the word go to the venue what is acceptable and what is not. I never had any problems with venues like social club, pubs etc as majority of these do not advertised. Hotels/larger establishments to advertise quite regularly.

I'm running with a project at the moment which is relating to working in hotel/larger establishments. This will be item that will be included to ensure that we are not caught out.

[spin mobile disco]

Some more good replies and some great ideas. As Dazzy D said once in print it can last forever you never know who is holding a copy.
As such I will be updating my terms and conditions as well. I did not have it previously in as it had never been a problem before. This venue is one I had never worked at , it was short notice and was expecting nothing untoward.

Just to clarify this is a Hypothetical situation 'Based' on a recent experience. As the matter has now been settled with the venue in question amicably I dont want to mention to much detail.

Mind you this has made me think how many other times this has happened that I havent known about. This is my 22nd year of DJ'ng (happy birthday to me) and I have probably had my picture taken by someone at every gig. I thought I would share this as the knowledge that this happened may come up with some preventative ideas for others in the future.

And so far it has , have a disclaimer in your Terms and conditions but im sure there are others.
Actually Allen I would love to show the pictures to everyone but as they have the venues name plastered all over I would give it away to post it.

[DazzyD]

Some more good replies and some great ideas. As Dazzy D said once in print it can last forever you never know who is holding a copy.
As such I will be updating my terms and conditions as well. I did not have it previously in as it had never been a problem before. This venue is one I had never worked at , it was short notice and was expecting nothing untoward.

Just to clarify this is a Hypothetical situation 'Based' on a recent experience. As the matter has now been settled with the venue in question amicably I dont want to mention to much detail.

Mind you this has made me think how many other times this has happened that I havent known about. This is my 22nd year of DJ'ng (happy birthday to me) and I have probably had my picture taken by someone at every gig. I thought I would share this as the knowledge that this happened may come up with some preventative ideas for others in the future.

And so far it has , have a disclaimer in your Terms and conditions but im sure there are others.
Actually Allen I would love to show the pictures to everyone but as they have the venues name plastered all over I would give it away to post it.

Glad to hear it has been sorted and an agreement that you're happy with has been reached.

You don't say how it's been sorted but I've started thinking that the venue really liked having you there and wanted to make you their star attraction. Still, it would have been nice for them to have asked you first!!