W-Audio PSR8a - faulty?

[DJ Jules]

After my recent thread on lightweight speakers, I ended up going for the W-Audio PSR8a's, because of the size, weight, high rated output power and also on the recommendations of a few people on here.

Since I picked them up on Thurs eve I've used them as monitors on Fri night for a pair of live singers, as extensions to my main PA for a very strangely shaped room on Sat eve and at an outdoor event on Sun (with a Mic). On Fri/Sat they performed absolutely fine as they were dealing mostly with reproducing vocals (not backing/bass), but on Sun at the outdoor event they were fed with some fairly bassy backing music (for a very dubious over 50's belly dancing group :eek: ) and pushed pretty hard - and immediately started "popping" on the bass notes.

When I got them home, I hooked them up to test them out and found that with music where there isn't much of a bassline (Beach boys) you can push them quite hard, but as soon as you introduce anything with a heavy beat (Flo Rida, Tinchy Stryder, etc) you have to back them right off as low bass frequencies quickly make them "pop" - note that the high/mid doesn't distort at all when this is happening, and the clip light isn't showing on the amp so in theory, they're not working that hard - I wouldn't have said that they're giving 150w RMS of output either at the volume levels I've been testing.

Bearing in mind they're only 8" speakers, I wasn't expecting amazing volume or incredible bass (as a number of people pointed out to me before I bought them), but I was expecting the internal amp/speakers to be reasonably well matched and them to perform reasonably well up to the point where they start clipping.

The question is - is this just what you get with an 8" speaker, or have I got a defective pair? Can anyone else who owns these speakers shed any light on this??

Thanks in advance,

Julian


EDIT: I've just re-read the manual and noticed this:

Low Freq Transducer:
Power handling: 120 watts, program

Low Freq Amp Rated Power:
100 watts

High Freq Transducer:
30 watts, program

High Freq Amp Rated Power:
50 watts

Or in other words, the output of the amps is higher than the capacity of the speakers, so it is possible to over-drive them before the amp begins to compress the input signal! Ok - now I'm really looking forward to hearing how other people have got on with these speakers?

[deltic]

pretty much as you have summed it up,i use mine just for small outdoor stuff school fates etc for background music and mic.
have tried using them for small (up to 50 people)disco's and they worked ok but could have done with just a little more umph.
i have even used them with a db sub but to be honest that didn't give that much more.

[DJ Jules]

Thanks for the info - So in other words, they're not faulty - they're just not very good when it comes to reproducing low bass notes?

I might have to try pairing them up with an active crossover myself just to see how they perform then.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm not sure what you are expecting with an 8" cheap-ish speaker Jules. You are running them too hard by the sounds of it.

[DJ Jules]

I'm not sure what you are expecting with an 8" cheap-ish speaker Jules. You are running them too hard by the sounds of it.

I'm just expecting them to do what it says on the box (or in the manual).

Their rated power handling was one of the major things which convinced me to buy them over Kam or other similar speakers (as most of the competition rate 8" speakers at 60w-90w RMS), so if their true RMS power is a lot less (as limited by the 150w program power of the drivers) and the amp has been over-rated in order to push up the "advertised" RMS output, then they'll be going back on the basis that they've mis-represented the product.

I get the feeling that if I take them to task about it that they'll tell me that the clever filter electronics they've put in front of the amps compresses the signal to prevent over-driving at certain frequencies, letting the amps drive the smaller speakers with 150w of power, just maybe not right across the whole frequency range...

But yes, I am the consumer from hell.

Julian

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Mine did fart a bit the first time I used them as I was in a separate room and didn't know how hard I was running them. Since then, I haven't had a problem though.

[Tom]

Your not really going to get a lot of bass out is a single 8" speaker.

I have a design which is for a dual 8" plus comp driver and that only goes down to 75hz. Not mega low but I'm not expecting low bass on small 8" drivers.

If you need more bass, have a look at some 12" bass bins. There are a few out there but I's guessing have a big price tag to them.

[DJ Jules]

Your not really going to get a lot of bass out is a single 8" speaker.

I wasn't expecting to - however I was expecting the built in amp to be tailored to clip before the speaker started to "fart" (nice turn of words Darren!)


I have a design which is for a dual 8" plus comp driver and that only goes down to 75hz. Not mega low but I'm not expecting low bass on small 8" drivers.

As long as it's loud ;)


If you need more bass, have a look at some 12" bass bins. There are a few out there but I's guessing have a big price tag to them.

I've got a spare 15" driver kicking around here now and an amp and active crossover, so I'm thinking about pairing a few spare components up in an MDF box and see what happens.

I've been playing the speakers a bit more tonight through an EQ and it's actually roughly the 100hz band that they can't take, anything below 30hz is filtered off by the built in amp anyway, and anything from 30hz to about 45hz just isn't reproduced at all. The 63hz band they seem to be able to deal with well, but the 100hz band (so roughly 80hz to 120hz) is where the drivers really seem to struggle. They do pretty well from there on up though so I'm considering running them with a sub and my active crossover (which is configured to 200hz) at a small gig to see how they do.

Anyway, thanks for all the help, I think I've come to the conclusion that they're doing what they're supposed to. You just have to be very careful how hard you push them.

Julian

[Tom]

I wasn't expecting to - however I was expecting the built in amp to be tailored to clip before the speaker started to "fart" (nice turn of words Darren!)

Is this "farting" noise from the port or the speaker?



As long as it's loud ;)

Well how does 125db cont with 400 watts rms or is you want to pump in 1000 watts rms then you are looking at 131db cont and the driver is still within it's limits. :D:D:D


I've got a spare 15" driver kicking around here now and an amp and active crossover, so I'm thinking about pairing a few spare components up in an MDF box and see what happens.

I've been playing the speakers a bit more tonight through an EQ and it's actually roughly the 100hz band that they can't take, anything below 30hz is filtered off by the built in amp anyway, and anything from 30hz to about 45hz just isn't reproduced at all. The 63hz band they seem to be able to deal with well, but the 100hz band (so roughly 80hz to 120hz) is where the drivers really seem to struggle. They do pretty well from there on up though so I'm considering running them with a sub and my active crossover (which is configured to 200hz) at a small gig to see how they do.

Anyway, thanks for all the help, I think I've come to the conclusion that they're doing what they're supposed to. You just have to be very careful how hard you push them.

Julian


Just have a play and see what works. :)

[DJ Jules]

Is this "farting" noise from the port or the speaker?

These are un-ported speakers - so from the speaker.

I'll give 'em a go and see how I get on.

Julian

[Tony Scott]

Sounds like these are little better than surround sound fodder. Sealed enclosure with an 8" driver? :eek: .......no wonder they hate anything below 100hz!
I think your plan of running them with a sub could work well, these tops should really only be run as Mid-Hi's IMO, filter them from about 120hz up and let the sub handle the rest, should be good! :)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

As previously mentioned, I use these full range and haven't had any problems after the initial over driving.

[Tony Scott]

Freq. Response (-3dB): 75Hz~20kHz

....which roughly equates to a useable low frequency response of 100hz at maximum output, therefore IMO they are only good as a mid-hi cab if you are going to run them anywhere near the max SPL of 117db, which is not that loud anyway....:)

[DJ Jules]

Freq. Response (-3dB): 75Hz~20kHz.... which roughly equates to a useable low frequency response of 100hz at maximum output, therefore IMO they are only good as a mid-hi cab if you are going to run them anywhere near the max SPL of 117db,

Agreed - their response isn't bad at low volumes, but when you start pushing them. Maybe I should just trade them in for a pair of these? (http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR283435) They're actually 2kg a side lighter! ;) .


which is not that loud anyway....:)

Not by your standards anyway! :D :D

Julian

[Tony Scott]

.....Maybe I should just trade them in for a pair of these? (http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR283435) They're actually 2kg a side lighter! ;)

Those look like nice cabs...lots of dosh though, do you think they'd do a straight swap? :D

[DJ Jules]

Those look like nice cabs...lots of dosh though, do you think they'd do a straight swap? :D

Hmmmmmmm.... I doubt it! :D I think they'd be more inclined to take the PSR8's back though if I told them I'd buy a set of cabs costing four times as much in their place :zip:

In all seriousness, I'd have to buy the EON 510's as well as the PSR's. There is no way I'd hire a pair of EON's for school fete's or put them on stands in a remote room - I might have considered doing that with a second hand pair of Mackie SRM350's at £500/pair, but I draw the line at hiring/lending £1100 of kit to muppets ;)

Julian

[DJ Jules]

UPDATE: Having taken the Cortex apart, it's given me a good excuse to hook it up to the PSR8a's and play a load of music to "test". My wife and kids are away for a few days so I think the rig might stay in here for the duration :D

This is the first time I've really been able to sit down and listen to the PSR8's and they're actually really pretty sharp with reasonable response from low to high.

My only comment is still that the power output is nowhere near the rated - it's completely unrealistic. I've just played a few tracks through them at higher volume (I've yet to see the clip light come on, and this is without any distortion at all) - but the amp smells like it's cooking nicely (and I mean SMELLS - as in cooked PCB), and they get pretty warm even without a signal.

Next time I think I'll spend my money on something with an external heatsink! When they're out of warranty I might investigate how hard that would be to do... If I keep them that long - if they're not good enough for the next quiz night I do, then I might have to rethink.

Julian