What do you think?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Hi all,

Just want some thoughts on this.
I had a call this morning from another hotel. It was the venue that I was at on saturday when I did the Karaoke/Disco for a Hen Night. I have been to the venue a number of times in the past and have always had great nights there. I have always been booked privately and not by the hotel itself. The hotel does have 2 resident DJ's who they use.

So, this morning I get a call from the Conference & Banqueting Manager. I've never met her before or spoken to her before. She asked if I would be interested in putting a Disco in at their wedding fayre next sunday from 10am - 4pm. She said it would be £115.00 (which includes vat) and that in turn, she would give me a booking plus there may be future bookings to come out of it. She said that they pay £250.00 for Discos (which is less than I charge).

I had a few questions so I asked the following:

Firstly, I was under the impression that you had your own resident DJ?
She said - We actually have 2 DJ's that we recommend BUT both of them have declined and are not interested in attending the wedding fayre.

I asked if she had contracts with them and what's stopping her from getting me to do the wedding fayre and then not giving me any future bookings. Even if she sticks to her word and gives me a booking, what's to say that it isn't already for a date that I have booked and also, if they are paying £250.00, I would be doing a Disco for £185.00.
She said that she doesn't have contracts with the other DJ's and there is nothing stopping her from using someone else. She actually used the term "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours". I get the impression from talking to her that she is really narked off that the DJ's she uses won't go out of their way to help her and do the wedding fayre.

Now, what would you do?
She hasn't mentioned the date for the booking yet should I want to do the wedding fayre. She got cut off as she was on her mobile and not working at the hotel today so we stopped in mid conversation.

To me, it sounds like a gamble. They could get a cheap Disco out of me (if I am free on the date she gives me) and then not pass any work my way. Then again, she may well stick to her word and give me bookings just to get at these other DJ's who don't seem to be bothered (by the way, I did ask WHY they weren't interested, maybe it's because they are working and she said that both of them said that they weren't interested in standing there all day when they were residents anyway).

Of course, I may get work from the wedding attendees anyway so it may be worth it? I'd like to know what others think? I am trying to get in touch with her again but no joy as yet. Part of me wants to go for it as it's a step in the door of another venue BUT another part of me doesn't because it's obviously fixed price work and I could be turning down work for a lot more money?

Tough one so chaps, give us some help here.
Cheers
G

[rob1963]

Tough one Gary.

Like you, I can see this from both sides, so I'm completely on the fence about your best course of action.

Sorry I can't be more help.

[Spirits High]

Gary,

I would say firstly for a Wedding fayre £115 is very good value.

Secondly as you rightly say you may well pick up other Wedding bookings from the fayre away from the hotel.

They're going to get you another booking any way so although it's less than your usual charge it does claw back the outlay for the Wedding fayre. You only need one booking from the fayre and you're onto a winner.

I'd say go for it ;)

[ppentertainments]

Be very Careful.

You say you have never met this C&B manager. Is he just there for training or in a temporary position and trying to impress ??

I nearly got duped into advertising in a hotel wedding magazine earlier this year under similar scenario to yourself. I had a meeting with the hotel manager himself who assured me that by advertising in the brochure would give me 'prefered status' for the hotels future bookings. After a bit of research however I found out that this hotel was used as a training hotel for the chains other hotels. The manager was out to impress and, without going into details, the chain will not allow any other DJ in under any circumstances whatsoever.

I also done a wedding fayre last year (albeit very cheap and did gain a lot of bookings for other venues) where I was assured the hotel in question did not use a resident DJ, only to speak to a couple after 10 minutes at the fayre who had been told they must use the DJ supplied by the hotel.

Now, I never use wedding fayres as an avenue to gain hotel reccomendations but purely go for the individual clients. Remember, not everyone attending the fayre will be getting married there.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I nearly got duped into advertising in a hotel wedding magazine earlier this year under similar scenario to yourself. I had a meeting with the hotel manager himself who assured me that by advertising in the brochure would give me 'prefered status' for the hotels future bookings.

20 years ago, I did get duped. I threatened to sue the publishing company though.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Thanks for the advice and info so far guys.

PP - I can confirm that the C&B Manager is full time and has been there for a while. The reason I know this is because I have dealt with her before (only by email etc) when I have had to send them new PLI details etc. Infact, I only had contact with her a couple of weeks ago as even though my current PLI lasts until mid October (and they have it on file), she said that she would need to see it again as she mentioned something about having to show it for every function now? I thought that was strange BUT at least it shows that they take things seriously as some venues don't even ask.

What bothers me is that I could do the wedding fayre and if people are booking the venue + dj then they are going to think that they are getting me (unless I tell them to request me OR book me privately, in which case it would be more expensive for them)..so in reality, it could be that I am getting the other dj's work. That's the thing that is giving me doubts.

I'll throw something else into the pot whilst I'm here too which is quite relevant to this whole thing too. I don't want to sound petty but it may well come across like it so I'll apologise in advance.

It only just clicked in my brain this afternoon - D'oh, how stupid eh!!

As I have mentioned in the past on more than one occasion, I have a residency at a hotel very near to me. I have a contract with them and I have supplied Disco Entertainment for them for the past 3 years now. Never ever had a complaint and I am never late etc etc... So, this year I have had 1 (yes 1 booking from them) and that was back in May. At some point during the year (can't remember when exactly?), the hotel started doing a '£1000 Wedding' Package. The C&B Manager at the hotel spoke to me on the phone and asked if I would be able to bring my price down to £200.00 for the '£1000 Wedding' Package. I thought to myself that IF it was a case of them giving me lots of bookings throughout the year, then maybe I would budge because it isn't that hard to do as the venue is almost on my doorstep BUT it is NOT the case. Bookings from them are few and far between so I declined. (I can do a night in my local pub without the stress, meeting clients in advance and play the music that the punters want which is really varied, for £180.00 and I use minimal equipment and no lights). The C&B Manager got the hump a bit and said that I was'nt very flexible which I found quite rude at the time. She called me back a few days later and said she had found a DJ that would do the '£1000 Wedding' Package weddings at £195.00 so she would be using him for those bookings and me for anything else. That did'nt bother me to be honest. I was more concerned about christmas. As it stands, the christmas bookings (16 of them) are all confirmed and it's ME that is doing them so no problems there.

Anyway (sorry to go on chaps), I asked if they had done many bookings and she said "Yes, lots...We've had about 5 this year that he has done and the feedback has been brilliant". It turns out that the DJ who is doing the weddings for £195.00 is one of the DJ's who can't be bothered to do the wedding fayre next sunday. I said to the C&B manager from the hotel that called me today, that it was the same guy and I knew that he had undercut me which I thought was out of order but at the end of the day...it's business. I also said that I have been booked at their venue a number of times because people didn't want the resident DJ(s) so from now on, every time I am there, I will have a little chuckle because I am (hopefully) getting the work and he isn't.

Thinking ahead, I can't see me supplying my local hotel beyond christmas because they obviously want to save money and I won't budge. If this other guy is doing it for £195.00 and has only had 5 bookings...well, I'm not missing out on much am I?

[simonp]

Personally looking at the bigger picture, I would do the wedding fayre as a fair percentage of the people attending are looking at suppliers/services and are probably using a different venue anyway, so you'll definitely get enquiries regardless,
(I'm exclusively promoted by one wedding venue, but plenty of other DJ's perform there throughout the year, and I do other Wedding Fayres at venues who 'have their own DJ's' and I always pick up plenty of enquiries etc); and as its already been mentioned, you only need one booking from it and the wedding fayre fee has paid for itself.

I can see why Mr £195 isn't doing the wedding fayre, as he automatically gets the gig as part of the £1000 package from what I understand, so it seems like a 'why bother' kind of attitude. Also, if he's tied in to the £1000 package, maybe the package 'dates' will be a contractual priority, meaning if he gets enquiries from people to DJ at other venues he has to cross his fingers on the dates.

Also by the sounds of it, this £1000 package isn'y very popular (only 5 sold this year) anyway.

[Jonny Boy]

I've got to agree with some of the other guys here: for £115 is worth a punt (even without the "guaranteed" gig to boot). A larger percentage of bodies through the door will not be booking that venue anyway.

Although, I would say you are in the bargaining postition here - especially as (a) you feel ambivalent and (b) she appears to be struggling to fill the space.

Be honest with her: tell her that for the gig price she is offering you would be making a loss on your normal price on that night, which you are sure you can sell at full price elsewhere....
so really the fayre would be costing you
£115 + £loss
...you may be able to negotiate a lower price for the fayre.

Persuade her that allowing you further discount will not affect their bottom line in the long run because you can offer XYZ....

eg Do you do uplighting?

You could also "sell" her this as if (as many hotels do) they have a room or two "set out" you could offer to uplight one for free - explain to her that this may clinch a couple choosing THEIR venue over another if they see how romantic/enchanting (whatever feminine superlative fits best) their venue looks in co-operation with you. This gives her venue another "USP", because they will be "selling the dream" more-so.

PLUS when you're talking to punters you can say "have a lookin the the Example Suite...we did that uplighting and could do the same for your venue."

Bang: you pushing two services for an already bargain price.

[kilmeedyman]

Its not only the one booking you will do for £250 but, I would expect, any after that and if you don't they won't use you and that will be their excuse.

Take a chance, if you get stiffed, you get stiffed. It happens in this game, doesn't it Gary?

[NKR]

[quote=ppentertainments;374886]

only to speak to a couple after 10 minutes at the fayre who had been told they must use the DJ supplied by the hotel.QUOTE]

They can't do this and I have come accross it before. Oh we would really love to use you, but the hotel said we must use their DJ.

When you explain that the hotel are probably taking a cut on it and it actually could be in contravention of competition law most have another little chat with the hotel.

On the other thing. It would usually cost you to attend a wedding fayre and if you get two private jobs from it elsewhere you paid yourself £115 to advertise. Nice action that.

Plus nothing wrong with showing willing. We have been pottering around the North West wedding circuit for few years now and although we aren't attached to any hotels ourselves many are starting to recommend us on an ad hoc basis.

Make sure you get written confirmation of your fee and and I owe you one gig some time in the future. That way if you already have something booked in when they come to you they still owe you a gig.

Oh hang on just read that lot again.

They want you to pay £115?

Hmmm - thats a different story. We have been offered a small amount to attend tFayres in the past as you end up providing catwalk music etc.

If they aren't paying you I wouldn't go. She will be well knackered when no-one is doing the catwalk music and there is no atmosphere. They should be paying you.

Sorry having a thick moment, I do have a few.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Well, thanks for the advice guys.
I have just finished speaking to her on the phone.
Firstly, as I understand it, it's not a huge fayre so no catwalk or any of that. At a guess I would say it's exhibitors etc with stands.
I have agreed to go and do it. I am not taking a full rig. I'll have the Denon system playing through my DB Tech Actives (background music) and have a couple of Uplighters on show with my laptop playing my promotional video through the flatscreen tv on the stand. I'll also take brochures and cards and my diary.

I have asked for confirmation of the booking in writing which I will get during next week. She's given me 2 dates already to choose from. One date I am booked already, the other is free at the moment (30th October).

She did say that she wasn't too happy with the other DJ's not being interested and fed back what I said about them to the General Manager who was also not impressed. She reiterated that it could only do me good and also said "You are a full timer aren't you Gary?". The other two guys are part timers. I think it is worth £115.00 for the day as I will get the opportunity to talk to lots of people and do my thing. I could sit here all week and the phone might not even ring and I may not get an email enquiry. This is giving me the chance to give out lots of information and cards etc and who knows?

Thanks again.

[simonp]

She reiterated that it could only do me good and also said "You are a full timer aren't you Gary?". The other two guys are part timers.

Lol, of course she would mate, she's got a slot to fill and wants her £115 ;)
Only jesting mate, good luck with the Fayre, hope you get plenty of interest and follow up bookings.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Scarcasm...thanks.;)
Did I mention that it's not the hotel that is running the wedding fayre? It is a local bridalwear shop who are holding at the venue and took it for granted that the hotel would be putting in their resident DJ's, only their residents DJ's can't be bothered.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Good luck with this Gary.

It does sound the hotel bases their choice of djs purely on price which doesnt really help you. All I would say is now is your best chance to impress her and almost say to her "Look for the extra x pounds you dont get any hassle, better show etc....."

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Cheers Decks, that was the idea!

[NKR]

Nearly all hotels choose their DJ based on price. How many are actually know or are that bothered about the entertainment. Once the wedding breakfast is done they see their job as done.

I will caveat that obviously not all are like this, but there are a lot.

[wensleydale]

Nearly all hotels choose their DJ based on price. How many are actually know or are that bothered about the entertainment. Once the wedding breakfast is done they see their job as done.

I will caveat that obviously not all are like this, but there are a lot.

i think thats rubbish.
if you are a f&b manager in it for the long term you will choose the dj on who makes your job easiest- they're not paying you - its the client.

[NKR]

You mean some of them are not just interested in the top slice that they take off?

I did caveat it that it was not all of them.

[DazzyD]

[quote=ppentertainments;374886]

only to speak to a couple after 10 minutes at the fayre who had been told they must use the DJ supplied by the hotel.QUOTE]

They can't do this and I have come accross it before. Oh we would really love to use you, but the hotel said we must use their DJ.

When you explain that the hotel are probably taking a cut on it and it actually could be in contravention of competition law most have another little chat with the hotel.

Have you ever taken action against a hotel (or any venue for that matter) for insisting clients use their resident DJ? I have even looked in to this in the past and was advised by my legal guy that there are no recorded cases of any venue company losing such an action so any such lawsuit would constitute a test case. His advice to me? I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. The venue are pretty much free to do as they please on their premises and I would almost certainly lose (which goes some way to explaining why such legal action hasn't happened before - not to mention the cost of bringing a case to court). We have debated this before on the forum.


They want you to pay £115?

Hmmm - thats a different story. We have been offered a small amount to attend tFayres in the past as you end up providing catwalk music etc.

If they aren't paying you I wouldn't go. She will be well knackered when no-one is doing the catwalk music and there is no atmosphere. They should be paying you.

Sorry having a thick moment, I do have a few.

A Wedding Fayre is an exhibition whereby exhibitors rent a stand for the event so of course you pay for it. A local wedding fayre (and quite a big one at that) charges more than double that per square metre of space you rent. I didn't do last years but the quote for the stand was just over £800+vat for just enough space for me to set out a stand. £115 including vat is, in my opinion, a really good price for the chance to market your services to a captive audience. However, it all depends on 1) the number of potential clients through the door (if the event is well promoted then this shouldn't be a problem) and 2) yorr ability at selling your services to those people. If your sales skills aren't up to the job then you could always pay a proven salesperson (or two) to work the event for you.

Wedding fayres aren't for everyone but they can be a useful marketing channel for wedding DJs. If you provide a good service and have the sales skills to match then you make the fee back several times over.

[NKR]

No I haven't taken action against any hotel. You can't expect to bring a case against a hotel when your evidence is what they told the bride and groom. So the bride and groom would have to support a case against the venue they are getting married in, which is a great way to start the run up to your wedding. How about getting the bride and groom to call the hotel to insist they use their own entertainment. Do you think a hotel are going to lose a wedding over their resident DJ? Probably not. Its about how you approach it. I have won a few that way and its worth a crack.

I am aware people rent space at Wedding Fayres. I have been offered three over the last two years and been offered £50 to each of them. Why? They need catwalk music and atmosphere. Nothing against them at all.

[DazzyD]

No I haven't taken action against any hotel. You can't expect to bring a case against a hotel when your evidence is what they told the bride and groom. So the bride and groom would have to support a case against the venue they are getting married in, which is a great way to start the run up to your wedding. How about getting the bride and groom to call the hotel to insist they use their own entertainment. Do you think a hotel are going to lose a wedding over their resident DJ? Probably not. Its about how you approach it. I have won a few that way and its worth a crack.

I am aware people rent space at Wedding Fayres. I have been offered three over the last two years and been offered £50 to each of them. Why? They need catwalk music and atmosphere. Nothing against them at all.

I know of one very prestigious local hotel that did just that. My brother (and roadie) wanted to have his (next!) wedding there and was quoted over £12,000 for the whole day. However, the venue refused outright to allow him to provide his own DJ (a very good friend of mine and very talented party DJ). The result? My brother is now looking elsewhere for a venue and the hotel have lost his money.

So, I would suggest that hotels would be prepared to lose a wedding over their resident DJ. This may be to do with the venue's contract with the DJ. One of the venue's I was resident at in the past (at a very posh family-owned hotel), I had a clause in my contract which stated that I got paid 50% of my normal fee if the customer decided to bring their own DJ. As the hotel was an expensive venue and my fee wasn't that big (about the same as my current budget show) then it wasn't too much of a problem for them. When my daughter was born (prematurely with some health problems), I stopped working for a while otherwise I might still be there now.

As for the wedding fayres, you've done well to get paid for being there. I've always had to pay for my space. But I'd rather be on the floor selling my services and taking provisional bookings.

[NKR]

That suprises me that they would lose the money, but hey fair enough it's their call. I say I have won a few, but as they say you win some and you lose some.

I only actually did one of the three I was offered and that was because I knew the hotel and they wanted us to do it. As they are on mid week nights and Sundays I prefer not to as that's my family time. I ended up doing catwalk music most of the day, but spoke to a few people.

I trust you daughter is keeping really well as I worry ever day about my little one. There is nothing worse than kids being unwell.

We kind of went off thread a bit there. I hope our man gets plenty of bookings from his wedding Fayre and the hotel stay good to their word.

I caveat again - not all hotels are that way out.

I'm about to crack a Becks anyone else for one? :beer1:

[ppentertainments]

I know of one very prestigious local hotel that did just that. My brother (and roadie) wanted to have his (next!) wedding there and was quoted over £12,000 for the whole day. However, the venue refused outright to allow him to provide his own DJ (a very good friend of mine and very talented party DJ). The result? My brother is now looking elsewhere for a venue and the hotel have lost his money.



99% sure I know the hotel concerned. Had problems myself there, when a couple wanted me to do a race night followed by disco for there wedding. Race Night, no problem but no disco, they had to use the resident. The couple explained that they would prefer me to do the whole night, complained etc, and was offered their deposit back.

Of course there is nothing underhand happening :whistle:

[NKR]

That is crazy! you can't run a hotel business and keep knocking big bookings (or any bookings) over a DJ thats mad business sense.

Thats like refusing to sell cars to people unless they buy your mats! Oh well its a free world.

[Corabar Steve]

I am aware people rent space at Wedding Fayres. I have been offered three over the last two years and been offered £50 to each of them. Why? They need catwalk music and atmosphere. Nothing against them at all.
What! They need you. Every time we've done any, we have supplied the fashion show music.

The cost to us? £0.00 + some of our time = some bookings.

The cost to the venue £0.00

Everybody's happy

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Exactly Steve!!

The way I look at this now (after the advice etc), is that I am going out of my way to help them and yes, it's going to cost me £115.00 BUT...It's how I come across. The C&B Manager has 2 DJ's that can't be bothered. She has called me and I have agreed to help her. That's got to be brownie points for me. My guess is that these 2 guys are happy to supply the hotel with Discos because it's easy for them. They work day jobs so bookings coming in without them having to do anything except turn up, set up and play..is probably ideal for them. The thing is, I don't think that will be the case before long. The C&B Manager is far from impressed with the situation. We had another conversation yesterday just before I went off to my wedding last night. She wanted to check that I was definitely going along next week and I told her not to worry. I also told her how I do my thing (going to meet customers in advance, whether the bookings are done privately through me or via a hotel etc) and she was impressed. I said that it was all in with the price and showed my commitment to giving the best possible service that I could.

These other 2 DJ's get paid £250.00 a Disco by the hotel. The C&B Manager now knows that they have also undercut me and gone down the road to my hotel to do Discos for £195.00 for the '£1000 Wedding Package'. Rightly so, she is saying "Well, if they can do it for £195.00 for them, why can't they do it for us?". I may well have not done myself any favours by telling her that as at the end of the day, she could get them to lower their price again and keep them on IF she is just wanting to save money. Saying that though, I don't think that's the case. These 2 DJ's have really got her back up so I will keep you informed.

What I would really like to happen is for them to turn up on the day to have a nose around and then get an earful from the C&B Manager, that would be great! Lastly, I am seeing her this week for a chat and to also confirm that any enquiries that go on to be confirmed bookings that I get on the day that are for Discos to be held at the hotel, will be mine.