Does make you wonder........

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I know alot of jokes and that have been said about our trip abroad last week but there was alot of talk about how we do things. One in particular was with someone not on this forum but appears to do very well for himself i.e going out regularly for £500 and has his fingers in a few pies so to speak. He was constantly on the phone by the pool sometimes!

Turns out alot of gigs he has gone out with two mackies and two impossibleds at which I almost gasped as personally I'd be very unhappy going out with that. Now this chap does have a entertaining persona.

Now my basic package is currently £225 and I dont get that much work. I always take five lighting fixtures and Im wanting to get a James H Deckstand Booth, a mep 7000 and three extra lighting fixtures before I start looking at uplighting kit!

It has changed my mindset alot, in fact since I got back Ive spent about 10 hours solid working on the website and thinking about changing my spending ideas to other projects that can bring in revenue.

Thoughts?

[Excalibur]

I know alot of jokes and that have been said about our trip abroad last week but there was alot of talk about how we do things. One in particular was with someone not on this forum but appears to do very well for himself i.e going out regularly for £500 and has his fingers in a few pies so to speak. He was constantly on the phone by the pool sometimes!

Turns out alot of gigs he has gone out with two mackies and two impossibleds at which I almost gasped as personally I'd be very unhappy going out with that. Now this chap does have a entertaining persona.

Now my basic package is currently £225 and I dont get that much work. I always take five lighting fixtures and Im wanting to get a James H Deckstand Booth, a mep 7000 and three extra lighting fixtures before I start looking at uplighting kit!

It has changed my mindset alot, in fact since I got back Ive spent about 10 hours solid working on the website and thinking about changing my spending ideas to other projects that can bring in revenue.
Thoughts?

Sandwich Bar? :sofa:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Neil

There are plenty of people who go out for decent money and small shows. It's all about the market and people's perception.

What I will say though, is not to be drawn into believing everything that DJs here or abroad say. There are quite a high percentage that are full of BS.

[wensleydale]

what exactly does he do differently then?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

what exactly does he do differently then?

Takes less gear by the sounds of it!

[Penfold42]

Sandwich Bar? :sofa:

Oh very funny....:D

Yes, if you can do it why not.....but do a bit of ground work first and also... choose where you want to be in say 10yrs time.....

Mine are low risk at this moment ....and no....I don't see myself as a sandwich mogal in 10yrs time.....:D

[wensleydale]

Takes less gear by the sounds of it!

you jest, but thats something that we sometimes dont appreciate could really appeal to a certain type of (potentially high paying) client- less is often more

[JDB Entertainment]

I too have spent a lot of time on a new website(www.dj-hire-birmingham.co.uk) last week.

Since it has been up, I have had a phone call earlier and took a booking for a Christening in November for a very nice fee.

All the money I have spent on the website has now been covered by this gig and also getting a nice fee aswell.

I am looking at investing in other things aswell.

My basic rig is usually 5 lighting fixtures.

Either:

Par Can, Acme Exercet, Impossibled, Acme Exercet, Par Can

or

Dynarock, Acme Exercet, Impossibled, Acme Exercet, Dynarock

I see this as sufficiant and obviously if the venue is bigger than an average venue then I will advice people to go with a bigger lighting rig if they need it.

I have always had my hand in many pies.

Although you have to be able to give 100% to everything as otherwise you will loose out.

James :D

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Ive been around long enough to sort out the bs from whats going on Darren and Im not saying what has been said is gospel but I was interested in hearing what the full timers have to say about it.

What was clear and I saw for myself was the volume of calls. The rest is what hes told me but I have no reason to doubt it. Ive worked as Ive said on the site and hoping that gets more calls coming in. He did also say that having a good site is very important and improved his work load no end.

So maybe I should get a pro site designed instead of buying more equipment?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

you jest, but thats something that we sometimes dont appreciate could really appeal to a certain type of (potentially high paying) client- less is often more

I know that Rich...:bang: :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ive been around long enough to sort out the bs from whats going on Darren and Im not saying what has been said is gospel but I was interested in hearing what the full timers have to say about it.

What was clear and I saw for myself was the volume of calls. The rest is what hes told me but I have no reason to doubt it.


You said yourself that you've only been around for a couple of years Neil, so be careful who you believe. ;)

Having been around this industry for a lifetime, I can sniff them out from a mile off.

How do you know this mystery person was taking disco related calls?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

You said yourself that you've only been around for a couple of years Neil, so be careful who you believe. ;)

Having been around this industry for a lifetime, I can sniff them out from a mile off.

How do you know this mystery person was taking disco related calls?

Well I was sat on the next sunbed along so heard it all

[Excalibur]

Neil

There are plenty of people who go out for decent money and small shows. It's all about the market and people's perception.

What I will say though, is not to be drawn into believing everything that DJs here or abroad say. There are quite a high percentage that are full of BS.

Darren surely you can't be implying that anybody on here would ever exaggerate their turnover/profits/gear/skill or prices? I find that very hard to believe. ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren surely you can't be implying that anybody on here would ever exaggerate their turnover/profits/gear/skill or prices? I find that very hard to believe. ;)

I'm sure you do...

[DeckstarDeluxe]

right but Darren do you just sell mobile discos or do you provide the other trimmings, uplighting,dancefloors etc...??

How many phone calls do you take on average a day/week?

Trying to improve and better what Im doing

[Excalibur]

right but Darren do you just sell mobile discos or do you provide the other trimmings, uplighting,dancefloors etc...??

How many phone calls do you take on average a day/week?

Trying to improve and better what Im doing

Look at what's presently behind him in his avatar. ;) It's a big clue. I'll give you a tip. Don't go into Car Parks with him. ;) It could permanently damage your wallet. :( :(

[wensleydale]

Darren surely you can't be implying that anybody on here would ever exaggerate their turnover/profits/gear/skill or prices? I find that very hard to believe. ;)

I've just got back from a gig with U2 which I got a 5 figure fee for.
I was so surprised by that statement that I went and unloaded the 25 moving heads I used whilst I gave it some thought and when I got back I realised that Darren probably had a point.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

right but Darren do you just sell mobile discos or do you provide the other trimmings, uplighting,dancefloors etc...??

How many phone calls do you take on average a day/week?

Trying to improve and better what Im doing

And I don't blame you Neil. :)

All I am saying (in a much politer way than when we met ;) ) is be careful of who you believe and take advice from.

Oh, and calls? No idea, I don't log them, but I'm not on the phone all day and certainly wouldn't be on holiday that's for sure.

Kind of defeats the point of being on holiday if you ask me!

[DeckstarDeluxe]

And I don't blame you Neil. :)

All I am saying (in a much politer way than when we met ;) ) is be careful of who you believe and take advice from.

Oh, and calls? No idea, I don't log them, but I'm not on the phone all day and certainly wouldn't be on holiday that's for sure.

Kind of defeats the point of being on holiday if you ask me!

Yes dont worry Im aware of how much of the brown stuff there is in the industry however it has given me a kick up the backside to improve what Im doing but it has changed my perception of how important the gear we use really is. I would never dream of using two lighting fixtures and I did say this to him, in fact if I did I wouldnt feel comfortable with it. I am not toying with the idea of where to invest in next but naturally need more work to do so. Catch 22 really

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I was shocked at a friends wedding. He booked the hotels prefered dj (the hotel, at the time, was owned by Hilton) as he wanted me to have the night off and "enjoy" myself. Anyway, booked them direct, so no hotel cut of the cash...and it was still quite high.

The dj turned up with two mackies, a micro shand with curtain front...and two Acme LED Boogies on a small T-bar. I couldnt believe it...and it certanly wasnt anything to do with client perception etc etc.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I was shocked at a friends wedding. He booked the hotels prefered dj (the hotel, at the time, was owned by Hilton) as he wanted me to have the night off and "enjoy" myself. Anyway, booked them direct, so no hotel cut of the cash...and it was still quite high.

The dj turned up with two mackies, a micro shand with curtain front...and two Acme LED Boogies on a small T-bar. I couldnt believe it...and it certanly wasnt anything to do with client perception etc etc.

Any idea how much the disco was?

[mike8863]

Where was this guy from??, does location make a difference, what contacts does he have, is it agency work that is just adding up, not being funny, but you heard the conversations but could it have been just to impress when he found out you were a dj, and yes this has happened to me, the guy in question, was good at specialising in a certain type of music that went out of fashion, he had 2 residencies for 2 weeks, he is now on his backside, but cracks on he's busy, his :Censored: told me the truth...:zip:
I must use more punctuation....:D

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Where was this guy from??, does location make a difference, what contacts does he have, is it agency work that is just adding up, not being funny, but you heard the conversations but could it have been just to impress when he found out you were a dj, and yes this has happened to me, the guy in question, was good at specialising in a certain type of music that went out of fashion, he had 2 residencies for 2 weeks, he is now on his backside, but cracks on he's busy, his :Censored: told me the truth...:zip:
I must use more punctuation....:D

The way he behave and his body language said as much as what he said which nobody on this thread has had the advantage of seeing. I'm happy with the judgement Ive made about him and not really looking into what people who have never met him have to say about it. Im interested in what proven full time operators do as its where I want to end up.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The dj turned up with two mackies, a micro shand with curtain front...and two Acme LED Boogies on a small T-bar. I couldnt believe it...and it certanly wasnt anything to do with client perception etc etc.

Couldn't believe what?

Surely you aren't saying he wasn't value for money 'cos he didn't have a great big show with loads of lights?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The way he behave and his body language said as much as what he said which nobody on this thread has had the advantage of seeing. I'm happy with the judgement Ive made about him and not really looking into what people who have never met him have to say about it. Im interested in what proven full time operators do as its where I want to end up.

PM me his name Neil - just out of interest. I'd like to see if I have met him before.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Any idea how much the disco was?

Yep...£300...which round here is very good...before anyone says anything.



AND



In not wanting a "you cant charge that round here" or "you can target your audience and charge more" generic comment either :D

[NKR]

Fingers in pies?

What pies does he have his fingers in. That seems a lot of money for a gig which is just DJ work, but hey it could be true. I am inclined to agree with Darren though as I know some seriously good guys (and hopefully meeting a few more on here ;) ) but they are not commanding anything more than us.

I do find that the market does tend to find its level and that seems a long way above the bar. What area does he operate in? Seems odd to be taking a load of calls whilst on holiday - was he booking them all in - if so how come he had such an empty diary if he was so popular?

DJ's full of BS - no never I will not believe it. Its surely a lie. :)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Fingers in pies?

What pies does he have his fingers in. That seems a lot of money for a gig which is just DJ work, but hey it could be true. I am inclined to agree with Darren though as I know some seriously good guys (and hopefully meeting a few more on here ;) ) but they are not commanding anything more than us.

I do find that the market does tend to find its level and that seems a long way above the bar. What area does he operate in? Seems odd to be taking a load of calls whilst on holiday - was he booking them all in - if so how come he had such an empty diary if he was so popular?

DJ's full of BS - no never I will not believe it. Its surely a lie. :)


I'll repeat myself again. Im not interested in what everyone thinks about this chap in question more of what I can do to get to such a level. If hes lying or not it doesnt alter the fact that Im looking to improve and wanting positive ideas rather than negative comments about someone you've never met

[NKR]

Dude just looked at your site. If you want to book corporate work they will be more likely if corporate is spelt correctly. Don't take that the wrong way its just an observation and gives you chance to alter it accordingly.

Yes I know and thats from a man with no web site.

P.S. The above was supposed to beg the question 'was what he said true as if not its not actually achievable'. I would love to spend all day caressing Angelina Jolies ample bussom for £500 a time, but hey its not going to happen. I would love to go out for £500 a gig, but I just about get that whilst also carrying a damn good vocal artist plus disco.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Dude just looked at your site. If you want to book corporate work they will be more likely if corporate is spelt correctly. Don't take that the wrong way its just an observation and gives you chance to alter it accordingly.

Yes I know and thats from a man with no web site.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


Now thats how it was spelt before i went away and then when we went on the internet in the bar two guys said straight away that I had spelt that wrong so changed it when I got back!
so is it Corporate or corperate???

[Spirits High]

I know alot of jokes and that have been said about our trip abroad last week but there was alot of talk about how we do things. One in particular was with someone not on this forum but appears to do very well for himself i.e going out regularly for £500 and has his fingers in a few pies so to speak. He was constantly on the phone by the pool sometimes!

Turns out alot of gigs he has gone out with two mackies and two impossibleds at which I almost gasped as personally I'd be very unhappy going out with that. Now this chap does have a entertaining persona.

It has changed my mindset alot, in fact since I got back Ive spent about 10 hours solid working on the website and thinking about changing my spending ideas to other projects that can bring in revenue.

Thoughts?

See, it was worth going ;)



What was clear and I saw for myself was the volume of calls. The rest is what hes told me but I have no reason to doubt it. Ive worked as Ive said on the site and hoping that gets more calls coming in. He did also say that having a good site is very important and improved his work load no end.

So maybe I should get a pro site designed instead of buying more equipment?

His phone was virtually non stop :eek:


Well I was sat on the next sunbed along so heard it all

Ooooer Mrs! At least you weren't sat in the Sauna with 5 half naked blokes again :D :D


PM me his name Neil - just out of interest. I'd like to see if I have met him before.

You've met me loads of times :D :D :D


Seriously though since being back I've been offered work by said person and it certainly wasn't for £500 ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!


Now thats how it was spelt before i went away and then when we went on the internet in the bar two guys said straight away that I had spelt that wrong so changed it when I got back!
so is it Corporate or corperate???

Corporate.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

His phone was virtually non stop :eek:


I am only speculating, but I do know who we are talking about and I know that he does have other business interests, so maybe not all his calls are about discos.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

See, it was worth going ;)



His phone was virtually non stop :eek:



Ooooer Mrs! At least you weren't sat in the Sauna with 5 half naked blokes again :D :D



You've met me loads of times :D :D :D


Seriously though since being back I've been offered work by said person and it certainly wasn't for £500 ;)

I did for half that but I did make the mistake of saying what my basic package costs but I did turn it down

[NKR]

The guys in the bar were wrong.

It is 'Corporate' as it derives from corporation.

[Danno13]

I'd just like to add my vouch for the person Neil is talking about as I've known/worked with him for getting on for 5 years now.

Oh, and it's not me by the way :D I do frequently just use 2-3 lights though, when it's suited to the room, and have never had any negative comments, nor noticed any difference in people dancing etc.

I don't focus on equipment at all really, as a) people don't really care when you talk about it.. and b) it makes it harder as a multi-op, to promise an identical show etc. etc. However, when it comes to things like uplighting, starcloth you do have to adjust to a more equipment-based mindset, but even still, the overall service and their confidence in, it is the key aspect that will clinch the sale.

(Oh, and you'd never get rich paying your other DJs £500 a gig now, would you :D I'll think you'll find the £500 figure would be with other services anyway)

[djsteve10]

You are not always paying for the gear. So long as the equipment looks smart in the venue and is well prestned then there is no need for shed loads of equipment.

You are paying for the quality of the DJ and the music that he plays. I don't understand why we base DJ's and there fees around the equipment they have and use on the road.

It is understandable if you offer a set show and have a set price to go with each show as you will set the price for each show accordingly.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

You are not always paying for the gear. So long as the equipment looks smart in the venue and is well prestned then there is no need for shed loads of equipment.

You are paying for the quality of the DJ and the music that he plays. I don't understand why we base DJ's and there fees around the equipment they have and use on the road.

It is understandable if you offer a set show and have a set price to go with each show as you will set the price for each show accordingly.

Which is what I do currently however its what Im happy with going out with rather than a case of having the best gear. I have a thing about cables so hence the James H Booth and a couple of other things which I want before Im happy with the set up. I dont think you can really sell a show if your not 100% happy with it (well not at least the prices some people go out for anyway)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

You are not always paying for the gear. So long as the equipment looks smart in the venue and is well prestned then there is no need for shed loads of equipment.

You are paying for the quality of the DJ and the music that he plays. I don't understand why we base DJ's and there fees around the equipment they have and use on the road.

It is understandable if you offer a set show and have a set price to go with each show as you will set the price for each show accordingly.

I disagree...kind of anyway. Everyone (well not everyone but you get my picture) is always banging on about how we are the entertainers and should entertain. Well our disco is the show, and if it doesnt (erm) show then its not doing a good job.*

* ive not been drinking honest...and know what i mean in my head.

Would you be happy at a dj buring up at your function with two lights and a pair of speakers and charging a small fortune?

Its a blurry line between the £500 Frank, and £60 Sid if they both turn up with 2 speakers, 2 lights and a stand, and are both good entertainers ;)

[Corabar Entertainment]

You are paying for the quality of the DJ and the music that he plays. I don't understand why we base DJ's and there fees around the equipment they have and use on the road.
For me, it is the whole package - including the equipment: but not the amount of equipment.... it's the presentation of the show.

Good equipment will never make a bad DJ good, but good presentation of equipment will enhance a good DJ's show. (IMHO)

...and, invariably, less is more on presentation as it looks (generally speaking) tidier. 'Crowded' doesn't look neat.

[rob1963]

Its a blurry line between the £500 Frank, and £60 Sid if they both turn up with 2 speakers, 2 lights and a stand, and are both good entertainers ;)

Surely if Sid was a good entertainer he'd be in demand...in which case he'd be able to charge a lot more than £60?

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Try to get away from the whole "industry insider" perspective Rob :)

Theres one local guy who goes out for £100 per night (not quite a sid i know but still) and people round here love him. Hes a bit of a throwback TBH and very dated in his style BUT he is an entertainer (think Ray Von), cheesy as hell but he has a market. It just happens to be quite chavvy etc etc.

From the publics perception, that guy charging £100 with a couple of lights and speakers, could be the better entertainer than the £300 guy with the same level of equipment.

[Leicester Ben]

Hi all

I've just read through this thread and thought that I should really introduce myself as it is me that Neil is talking about (well I hope it is otherwise I will look like a real <forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post>) :)

I started DJ'ing 7 years ago when I first went to uni to study business. I built the business up in my 3 years at Uni and was in a situation after graduating to go pretty much full time (for the first 8 months or so I worked 2 nights a week just to subsidise my income) from then on I have been a full time DJ.

Due to the amount of bookings that I take (which is mainly down to either referals or through the website I have slowly turned the business into more of an agency. I have a team of 7 DJ's that I use pretty much every saturday in the summer period and about 2 or 3 on a Friday. These DJ's all own their own kit and are fully self employed etc, they dont really do any advertising however (as there is no need as I supply them with work). Because of this I am able to pay them between £175 (party) - £250+ (wedding) a night and they are happy. All of the DJ's that I use are really good and the feedback from my clients is always positive about them.

With regards to pricing our standard prices are £225 for a party and £325 for a wedding. The vast majority of the work I take is wedding receptions at 'posh' places, I am too overpriced for working mens clubs / pubs etc.

Many of my clients book the all day wedding service which is £600+, this includes led uplighting, a morning set up and an evening disco. I am not charging £500 for just an evening disco, although I have come close on a few occasions.

I have also been offering LED Uplighting for the last couple of years (owning 47 Thomman Cans) and offer that as an add on to weddings as well as offering it as a stand alone service for Asian Wedding receptions in Leicester.

I have this week also just bought 2x Starlit LED Dance floors and an ivory starcloth which I will be offering as extras also.

I also set up a PAT Testing company last november and employ 1 person to carry out the testing for me.

Introduction over and getting back to the point at hand I honestly do not believe that the equipment used on the evening makes a massive difference to the success of the event.

Neil is correct in saying that I regularily go out with just 2x Mackies and 2x Imposileds for events that are paying £325+.

Have I had any complaints = NO
Would people have had more fun if I had taken 4 lights = NO
Can I be set up in 20 minutes = YES
Can I be out of a venue in 15 minutes = YES

Now if I was in 200 capacity venue i would of course use more lighting and more speakers, however the vast majority of events that I DJ at are in stately homes etc where I am in essence DJ'ing in somebody's living room!

The most important thing at an event is the DJ (not his equipment). I honestly believe that once a DJ gets to a certain standard of equipment then swapping and changing it etc every 6 months (which many DJ's do) firstly makes no business sense atall and secondly will get them little or no extra work!

I would love to own 2x Wizard Extremes, 2x Moving Heads and an amazing sound system, however my diary would be just as full without them so why spend £3500 aprox on them when you can add that to your profit for the year.

Anyway enough from me, I should have really posted this in the newbie section - woops.

[Spirits High]

Ben,

The jist of the post by Neil as you've gathered is that basically he busts his balls to go out with a large set up of lighting etc and you send out on occasion a couple of impossibleds.

Fairplay as the clients perception is mainly the music. If you give them some lights then bonus! As we chatted about when we were "Networking" alot of it is DJ snobbery and willy waving.

It's not a derogatory post against you just seeing things from a different angle ;)

[Leicester Ben]

Yeah definately Paul, and I'm in no way offended by it.

I think that clients book a DJ based (unless refered) on how they sound on the phone, speed of returning calls / emails, have a good informative website etc.

I dont think that I have ever lost / gained bookings because of the number of lights that I use :-)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Welcome Ben,

I hope the post didnt come across in a bad way as it was never intended as such its just a shock to me hearing and seeing someone working differently and being a success.

What some people have thought is I started this thread to belittle a fellow dj or wherever or not I should believe what you have said which isnt what I was after, rather than asking are we really in tune with what customers want and where I should invest my money from future gigs.

I should say that Ben was a very entertaining guy when we went out and I can see that transfers easily into his show.

[NKR]

No that clears it up for me and makes perfect sense.

I don't take my full rig into the few smaller country house venues I do either as it would be mega overkill. And the fees being quoted are essentially what I would expect.

Sounds like a really good business. As my business is my hobby I just can't help aspiring to the toys, but then I have a vocal artist in tow and we are looking at pushing that further to big corporate jobs - I am chicken and egg at present. Wait for the big job and not have enought kit (its the 300 capacity plus corporate dinner dances we are after) or have the kit capable to do when it comes in.

Anyhow welcome Ben (I am fairly new on here too). Looking forward to nattering with you.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Yep, clears it up for me too :D - Ive often gone out with 3 lights and 2 speakers, but my most popular option adds two scanners into the mix....and a bass bin :)

[WWDJ]

Oh, and it's not me by the way :D I do frequently just use 2-3 lights though, when it's suited to the room, and have never had any negative comments, nor noticed any difference in people dancing etc.


Sounds odd, but I actually take more lights to teen parties than the adult ones. I don't like to overkill the event with lights that aren't needed. I have built up versatile set of lights combined with DMX control so I don't need to take many. I would feel comfy taking out 2 megabars and an EFX500. I tend to match the lights to the music that I will playing, so I tend to use scanners / strobes at younger parties