'Celebrity' DJs

[BeerFunk]

When I started DJing just over a decade ago, I suppose there were many big name DJs who inspired me a bit. It was mainly house DJs like Masters At Work, Armand van Helden, David Morales, Roger Sanchez, Erick Morillo, Todd Terry and so on.

As I became a more accomplished DJ, in all departments really but mainly beat mixing techniques, my admiration for the DJs on these pedestals dimmed a little. This was in direct contrast to the rising status of 'superstar' DJs. I think it was really the mid/late 90s when DJs started to become 'superstars', and a lot of that was down to the remix, with the likes of Todd Terry, Armand van Helden and Norman Cook in particular elevating 'alternative' artists to the top of the charts (with some stunning remixes, in my opinion).

The aforementioned DJs were also talented artists in their own right, so their status was well earned in my opinion. I think Armand van Helden was asking $100,000 for his production services by the late 90s. However, all of this paved the way for other DJs to become celebrities, and command huge fees for DJing at big clubs - sometimes just for a couple of hours.

My question is... why?? Don't get me wrong, you need to practice a fair bit to be able to mix house/trance to a 'seamless' standard, but after that, there is no real talent involved. It's really not that difficult to beatmatch tracks which typically only change every 32 beats - which is why there are thousands of DJs across the country who couldn't be seperated by a nose hair. Yet some of these DJs seem to be idolised for doing not much at all :confused:

There are of course exceptions - the likes of 2 Many DJs, Norman Cook, The Chemical Brothers mix tracks of varying genres and tempos together - using a whole bag of tricks and techniques. And then some DJs know how to read a crowd and maintain the energy levels, and possibly mix harmonically aswell.

Having listened through a few sets, these are examples of DJs I think are riding on a marketing wave : Tiesto, Judge Jules, Carl Cox, Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk, Sasha, Rob James (OK, that one was in jest :p )

[Dynamic Entertainment]

These days a top DJ gets to the top more because of their tracks than their mixing ability IMO. Ive worked with a few, and their beat mixing can be shoddy...right down to terrible. But they have, like you say, done plenty of remixes and productions.

A top DJ these days has a lot to do with being in the right place at the right time and getting noticed...AND having a great business head on.

Two close friends of mine are hard house/NRG djs/producers. Theyve had plenty of tracks released; even getting big gigplay in Oz...and had a track be Lisa Pin-ups tune of the month, and been included on Nucleuz Hard House Anthems 6!

Guess how much they earned out of it.....less than £100 each, and they even screwed up the duo's name on the tracklisting :eek:

[PropellerHeadCase]

The Superstar DJs are dance music producers on tour - rock bands have gigs and tours, now dance music producers do, too.


BT regularly made it into the top 100 DJs lists for various magazines but he didn't and basically still doesn't DJ - he actually joke about tattooing his forehead with 'Not a DJ' - he does DJ-like sets, now, where he remixes stuff live using Ableton.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Saw BT in my local club a while ago, and your right...his actual beatmixing is fairly non-existant. His skills with a sampler/camputer were awesome though.

[Adam_F]

When I started DJing just over a decade ago, I suppose there were many big name DJs who inspired me a bit. It was mainly house DJs like Masters At Work, Armand van Helden, David Morales, Roger Sanchez, Erick Morillo, Todd Terry and so on.
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Having listened through a few sets, these are examples of DJs I think are riding on a marketing wave : Tiesto, Judge Jules, Carl Cox, Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk, Sasha, Rob James (OK, that one was in jest :p )


DJ'ing these days isn't just DJ'ing.

All the DJ's you mentioned, don't just DJ, they produce too, playing their own material when out, and more importantly, remixing live.

Good big DJs these days aren't mixing two tracks, they've producing live, effecting, editing and warping tracks, creating new ones live. With the likes of Ableton Live, Traktor Pro, EFX 1000s, SP 555s your more like a musician than a DJ.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Good big DJs these days aren't mixing two tracks, they've producing live, effecting, editing and warping tracks, creating new ones live. With the likes of Ableton Live, Traktor Pro, EFX 1000s, SP 555s your more like a musician than a DJ.

Completely agree...although its funny how may have the odd bit of trickery already donte to the track before the gig.

Not naming names, but seen a well known (ish) bounce dj, whos style is incredibly fast paced be screwing around with tracks whilst no where near the cdjs/mixer etc etc....in fact he was grabing a quick gob full ;)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

A few years back, I was doing 2 regular nights at the local Litten Tree venue in town. I was there on a thursday and saturday (it was when the likes of Modjo, Madison Avenue & Zombie Nation were out). Anyway, it was something that I did but didn't really enjoy. I was playing dance music mainly and practiced my mixing skills infront of a packed crowd. One thursday they had a 'celebrity' DJ who happened to be Brandon Block. He did 1 hour and got £800.00 and was in my view (and judging by some of the punters too), rubbish.

I've mentioned before about 'celebrity' DJ's on the road and 'live' as such so I won't bore you with it all again but let's just say that it's the people that we don't get to hear about that do all the hard work.

[Vectis]

I once 'warmed up' for "Ooh" Garry Davies... does that count?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I once 'warmed up' for "Ooh" Garry Davies... does that count?

No, go and sit in the corner. :D

[rob1963]

A top DJ these days has a lot to do with being in the right place at the right time and getting noticed...AND having a great business head on.

Very true.

Back in the eighties, I worked with a number of top DJs before they made it big. They included Paul McKenna, Dave Pearce & Gilles Peterson. Yes, they all started in pirate radio just like me.

The only difference is that they progressed further than me, largely due to being in the right place at the right time...just like you say.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

...and having some talent. :boxer2:

[rob1963]

...and having some talent. :boxer2:

That goes without saying!

:rofl:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

One of my venues managers was saying exactly the same thing Gary.

Theyve had top djs in who have completely flopped...Dave Pearce on a number of occasions....because they dont read the dancefloor. They have their set laid out and dont deviate at all. Ill always giggle when we had Lisa Lashed on in the club, one rather intoxicated youth approached the dj box, so over she went. He told her she was stunning....then told her to switch the crap off and play some funky house :D She wernt impressed

[BeerFunk]

DJ'ing these days isn't just DJ'ing.

All the DJ's you mentioned, don't just DJ, they produce too, playing their own material when out, and more importantly, remixing live.

Good big DJs these days aren't mixing two tracks, they've producing live, effecting, editing and warping tracks, creating new ones live. With the likes of Ableton Live, Traktor Pro, EFX 1000s, SP 555s your more like a musician than a DJ.There is that, but not all the big name DJs do that live. There is strong evidence that some of them have pre-recorded sets too.

As for live re-production - Daft Punk, for example, have been doing that for a long, long time, and they have earned their status as far as I'm concerned. Without going into specifics, I know that some programs such as Ableton Live are very simple to use and do most of the work for you - it's just a case of starting and stopping loops which are already there for you.

To put it into perspective, would anyone consider one of the 'top' DJs to be as talented as an established live musician?

[rob1963]

They've had top djs in who have completely flopped...Dave Pearce on a number of occasions....because they dont read the dancefloor.

:jawdrop:

[MagicMusic]

It is becoming increasingly more difficult to define exactly what a "DJ" is.

I am uncomfortable with terms such as "celebrity" and "superstar" but it is necessary to somehow tag specific types of dj so here we go...

To me a celebrity DJ would be someone like Kate Lawler, Danny Dyer, Peter Hook etc. People who use dj'ing as a novelty way to make money by exploiting their profile.

A superstar dj would be Tiesto, Paul Van Dyk, Armin Van Buuren, Roger Sanchez, Eric Morillo, Paul Oakenfold, Marshall Jefferson, M.A.W, Armand Van Helden, Sven Vath, Ritchie Hawtin, David Guetta, Bob Sinclar, Eric Prydz and the Sweedish house Mafia etc. To me, the superstar tag only applies to those who have a global profile.

There are many who are somewhere in between. the likes of Judge Jules, Eddie Halliwell, Luciano, Ricardo |Villalobos and so on who are huge respectively within their own territiories because of technical merit rather than their public profile but are not yet as internationally recognisable.

People who I cant stand are guys like Deadmau5 who claims to be revolutionary but plays a pre-programmed set every time, selecting loops and fx over the top of his Ableton set. WTF?

The technology is no longer an issue, what you use doesn't matter but what you do with it DOES. Standing up there pressing stop - start on BPM synced software is shocking and wholly unaceptable in my eyes.

Those who I have mentioned in the superstar category have in my experience always pushed the boundaries technically and creatively, only last week I witnessed Paul Van Dyk using 2 cdj's, 2 Macbooks a MIDI keyboard and god knows what else all at the same time.

An obvious exception from the superstar category would be Tiesto who basically does nothing other than mix records in the traditional way.

But herin lies the problem.

Tiesto = BAD? WHY?

Because he is the centre piece in a commercial bandwagon?

Perhaps he is but I put my house on it that no-one left Privellege Ibiza last tuesday morning feeling anything less than amazing. He may not be the technically most gifted DJ out there but he CAN read the crowd and his exceptional back catalogue of productions ensures a good time is had by all, all 10,000 in attendance last week that is!

So, my opinion is this,


"Big Name" Dj's are largely there on merit due to their dj ability, musical productions, hard work and because of the crowds they can attract.

"Celebrity" Dj's are hired because of their ability to attract a crowd and nothing else.

The "Big Name" Dj's usually tour in the traditional way a band does, usually when they have a glut of new material to try out or a new album to promote. I don't see anything wrong with that.


Any dj refusing to read the emotion of the crowd (take heed Deadrat5 ;) ) is a disgrace and does not deserve to reap any reward.

To conclude, I think that the right place / right time thing is largely dead and buried. It happened back in the eighties and early nineties but the standard of competition now is massive.

To be a success at the top level you have to be good, talented, passionate, motivated, very hard - working and also be a good producer.

I hope that made sense as I'm just back from Ibiza and my heads still all over the shop:)

Cheers,

Charlie.

P.S

To anwser the question (I think!) I hold most of those big name dj's in higher regard than most musicians as a single musician can't do things to my emotions the way those dj's can.

I mean a dj can sample the best 10 second guitar solo from a musicians career and blend it with the best bassline and drum solo from another. That, as they say, floats my boat :)

[MagicMusic]

I should add that most big name dj's are booked because of their musical style, it would be unfair to book someone such as Lisa Lashes (Hard House/Dance) for a funky house club then moan about it! That would be a massive error of judgement on the promoters part.

If I shelled out £50 to go to Cream and Ferry Corsten played a funky jazz set, i'd be gutted - not mention ragin'!

[Corabar Steve]

I hold most of those big name dj's in higher regard than most musicians as a single musician can't do things to my emotions the way those dj's can.
I think that statement is complete & utter rot!

You obviously have no appreciation of music whatsoever & should find another job :sarc: :sj: :sj: :sarc:

[MagicMusic]

I think that statement is complete & utter rot!

Think it rot all you want its true :p

:)

[Pe7e]

I think that statement is complete & utter rot!

You obviously have no appreciation of music whatsoever & should find another job :sarc: :sj: :sj: :sarc:
:agree:

[MagicMusic]

This thread adresses a very particular area of music, by nature it is entirely subjective. As I love electronic music it is only natural that I hold the creators of such music in higher regard than any single musician. If you don't like it - tough, that's your opinion, live and let live.

[Corabar Steve]

Ahem!


:sarc: :sj: :sj: :sarc:

[MagicMusic]

:sorry:

[PropellerHeadCase]

That said, as a big fan of electronic music, sampling, and turntablism i agree that the ability to sample the creme de la creme from a great career or, as DJ Shadow put it, that five seconds of genius from a pile of rubbish, is an amazing skill. The blending of two recognized sources into one cohesive new thing is extremely stimulating listening for me.

[Javlingames]

Ok, my 2 cents.

I totally agree with the OP.

To me the real superstar dj's are the hip hop / mash up type guys who use the turntable as an instrument. Just go on to youtube and watch djs like

DJ AM (RIP)
Kid Capri
Jazzy Jeff
DJ Enferno
DJ Grandmaster Flash

These guys can beatmix just as good as Tiesto and the rest of the dance music dj's but guess what, they can play any style of music and scratch the hell out of records as well as a whole host of other tricks. That to me is more entertaining than watching a dance music dj mix 32 in and out and using the pioneer effects unit 'phasing' 'flanging' and other tiresome effects.