Small PA for a school

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The school I was a governor at has asked me for some help in getting a small PA system. Here's the info they have given me.


We do a whole school 'Take 10' on a Monday morning,
which is kind of like a children's version of aerobics for 10 minutes.
It is the whole school and in the playground and it needs to be something
which is fairly small and can be taken inside and outside easily. So
used for me to tell the children the instructions and possibly playing music
at the same time?

The budget is around £500 (give or take) and needs to include facility to play music and a mic.

Over to you.

[A1DL]

Just PM'd you, Daz

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry, just to confirm that the school want to buy, rather than hire.

Thanks for the PM Tony.

[Cj_The_Dj]

how about one of these.

http://entertainmenthouse.co.uk/proburn/images/peavey_escort.jpg

or this

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/pa_systems/stagepas300/img/index_ph_ci_01.jpg

and if your not botherd about a pair of peakers.

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00wMetpdoaEHckM/Portable-Wireless-Amplifier-PA-818T-.jpg

[Jonny Boy]

how about one of these.

http://entertainmenthouse.co.uk/proburn/images/peavey_escort.jpg



Similiar to the above, yet without built-in stands and legs is a Fender Passport system. Shouldn't be a problem to put the mixeramp at the teacher's feet, with an extension lead out of a window or something? Have used the "Passport 150" in the past and found pretty good for its size - certainly fit for purpose. (Except no built in effects for vocals.)

The Passport 250 deluxe comes in a hair under £500 from some online retailers, but with reverb and built in CD player, the school could double the use for Xmas concerts etc. 6 channels too.

See some info here (http://www.andertons.co.uk/FenderPD250PlusDeluxePassportPortablePASystemNEWLO WPRICEinstock/pid10469/cid632/FenderPD250PlusDeluxePassportPortablePASystemNEWLO WPRICEinstock.asp?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=pricecomp&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping):

[DJ Jules]

How big is the school? How many kids/how big is the hall?

My son's school has 270 kids and they need a minimum of about 250w/channel for you to be heard outdoors! I'm really interested in the answer to this one as his school has real problems balancing size against power against budget. I.e. finding something loud enough to be heard, while light enough to be moved around the school without the teachers continuously complaining (or just not being able to move it!)

Julian

[A1DL]

they need a minimum of about 250w/channel for you to be heard outdoors

:confused:
At what distance from point source? 10m, 100m ?

It's inverse square law:
double the distance -6dB
double the power +3dB
double the perceived volume = 10x power

If you really cannot hear a <250w speaker at say 10m outdoors, throw it in the skip and replace it with a much more efficient driver.

[DJ Jules]

:confused:
At what distance from point source? 10m, 100m ?

That's the point - outdoors you're typically talking about distances much greater than 10m. You also have additional background noise to factor in (aeroplanes, traffic, etc) as well as no echo to increase the perceived volume.

I'm not sure if moving air (i.e. Wind) makes a difference as well, I imagine you know more about this than me? :o

Julian

[A1DL]

That's the point - outdoors you're typically talking about distances much greater than 10m. You also have additional background noise to factor in (aeroplanes, traffic, etc) as well as no echo to increase the perceived volume.

I'm not sure if moving air (i.e. Wind) makes a difference as well, I imagine you know more about this than me? :o

Julian

Wind can adversely affect dispertion of higher frequencies over distance, as indeed has been publicised in relation to the 2009 festival season.

My point was quite simply the statement; "x watts are required to be heard outdoors" does not tell us anything, when we don't know (a) the distance of the point of measurement from point source, (b) the efficiency of the box or (c) how loud the box will play.

[Excalibur]

Closest I can do . Bit tricky for the money.

http://www.electromusic.co.uk/product.php?productid=377&cat=99&page=1
driven by
http://www.electromusic.co.uk/product.php?productid=19771&cat=116&page=1

Pro15 cabs match the mixer better, but blow the budget. :(

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think we may need to read the original post again....

[DazzyD]

I've seen the Fender Passport system in use before and it is fairly portable so might be a good choice.

Something similar is this:

http://www.images2.co.uk/cgi-bin/KPA100_100W_RMS_4_OHMS_MIXER_AMP_SPEAKER_SYSTEM_WI TH_TROLLEY_BAG_SP431200.html

At this price there's enough left over in the budget for a microphone and CD player. Or, just plug in a iPod and you're away.

For a little over budget you also get some stands:

http://www.images2.co.uk/cgi-bin/KPA100_100W_RMS_4_OHMS_MIXER_AMP_SPEAKER_SYSTEM_WI TH_TROLLEY_BAG_and_SPEAKER_STANDS_SP431202.html

[DJ Jules]

My point was quite simply the statement; "x watts are required to be heard outdoors" does not tell us anything, when we don't know (a) the distance of the point of measurement from point source, (b) the efficiency of the box or (c) how loud the box will play.

That was kind of the point of my original (misguided?) post. I asked how many kids there were/how big the hall was in order to try and get a better idea of what sort of size/power the PA needed to be. I then used an example from my experience of my son's school borrowing my PA for sports day and summer fayre where 2x250w RMS outdoors is just about adequate for a school of about 270 kids (if you can imagine how much space they'll take up on a playground) to illustrate that if it's going to be used outside, then it does need to kick out more power than a PA for just indoor use because when you're outdoors there are other factors to take into account which affect the perceived volume.

Sorry I didn't express the output in db (which I realise would have been more meaningful), but I just don't have that number! :)

The point I was originally trying to make is that I'm not convinced that any of the ultra portable compact PA systems (100W RMS??) are going to be up to the job. Especially after my recent experiences with the W-Audio PSR8's (150w RMS per side) which I've heard used for an outside PA and are utterly inadequate. Every proven solution I've found so far is well out of their budget (SRM350's, Cerwin Vega CVA28's, etc), or just too heavy (e.g. pair of passive 15's with a 500w amp or a cheaper pair of active 12's) - which is why I'm really interested to know what people are going to come up with?

Julian

[Excalibur]

I think we may need to read the original post again....

Are you politely and tactfully trying to point out that I have not included a playout system and microphone? :confused: Cos if you are, then what type of playout would they like? ( I'm assuming CD player, but it wouldn't be my choice) ( I'm also sort of assuming they'd already have a playout system, and possibly mic)

And if that is the case, then I'm in agreement with Jules that you can't provide a powerful, quality system for that sort of money. Sorry.

Haven't you asked this before, or was it another school?

[DazzyD]

I've seen small 80w systems in use for small-bar karaoke and quizzes before so I think that certain 100w systems may well be up to the job.

At the end of the day, a £500 budget for a school may be restrictive but, usually, LEA budgets of this type are also very rigid. You've got to choose the best solution for the money. If the budget had been £1000+ then this would have been a much easier situation to resolve.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

1. I didn't say it had to be powerful
2. It has to be easily portable
3. This is for a school playground for the kids to do aerobics to for 10 minutes. They listen to the teacher anyway, so will definitely listen to one with a microphone and something to make their voice louder.

[DazzyD]

Then the Kustom solution ticks all three of these boxes.

[DJ Jules]

1. I didn't say it had to be powerful
2. It has to be easily portable
3. This is for a school playground for the kids to do aerobics to for 10 minutes. They listen to the teacher anyway, so will definitely listen to one with a microphone and something to make their voice louder.

Oops :coat:

Julian

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Haven't you asked this before, or was it another school?

No, it was for a friend of mine who needed something for a PTA who run quiz nights.

[Excalibur]

1. I didn't say it had to be powerful
2. It has to be easily portable
3. This is for a school playground for the kids to do aerobics to for 10 minutes. They listen to the teacher anyway, so will definitely listen to one with a microphone and something to make their voice louder.

Right. In that case, please accept my abject apologies for my total and utter failure to realise the importance of the portability aspect of the kit. :o :o :o

http://www.sound-light-company.co.uk/audio-pa-systems-c-30_59.html

http://www.sound-light-company.co.uk/audio-pa-systems-c-30_59.html

http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/ishop/923/shopscr6498.html

http://www.cybermarket.co.uk/ishop/923/shopscr6498.html
http://www.dv247.com/pa-systems-and-live-sound/carlsbro-speakezee-ii-portable-pa-system--43902

http://www.soundranger.com/pa-systems/cable-microphone-pa-systems/x40m-s.html

That's a start. :D