Your views..

[Charlie Brown]

I'm sat up listening to Luther Vandros's album, (following Darrens advice) and I'm actually having second thoughts on my actions today.
A few months ago I was booked by a regular venue of mine to provide a disco at their haloween fancy dress night. A few weeks later I discovered I wouldnt be able to do the date due to a school trip. They were fine about it but asked me to find a replacment, which I did. Turns out i dont go on the trip and remember the party I passed on. I ring the venue and mention I might pop down to see the DJ in action. They then offer me the job, because they "like what I do." The DJ didn't sent out a booking form or ask for a depossit etc. I took on the job knowing that the other DJ was going to miss out on a nights work. I now feel very bad.....what would you have done?
Sorry for the bad grammar..I'm on my phone :)

[andyw]

i don't think you should of taken the booking back if you've offered it to someone else, think how you would feel if it was the other way round.

[soundmaster mobile disco]

I would be honest with the other dj and tell him that you are no longer going away on that date,also tell him that the hotel got back in contact with you to say that the other dj has not sent out a conformation letter\booking form and has no deposit, ask do they still want the gig ? or can i have it back.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I could kind of go with Gary. maybe make up some BS and ring the other DJ to say that youve had the venue in touch in a panic because theyve never recieved any confirmation off him and ask if he still intends doing the gig.

[rob1963]

I would be honest with the other dj and tell him that you are no longer going away on that date,also tell him that the hotel got back in contact with you to say that the other dj has not sent out a conformation letterbooking form and has no deposit, ask do they still want the gig ? or can i have it back.

Having thought about it, I'd probably go along these lines too.

I certainly wouldn't just take the gig back, as I think that's out of order. As previously mentioned, imagine how you'd feel if someone passed you a confirmed booking, but took it back from you at the last minute. If someone did that to ME, I'd be seriously :Censored: off.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

i don't think you should of taken the booking back if you've offered it to someone else, think how you would feel if it was the other way round.

I agree.

[DazzyD]

If someone offered me a gig and then took it back they'd no longer be able to count on my help if they needed work covering in the future.

By all means, ask if he intends to do the gig and maybe question why he hasn't sent any booking paperwork. However, he may just do things differently to you or, seeing as he got the gig from you, maybe he thinks that you have already sorted that out.

Just a thought!

[Shaun]

Call the guy and mention that the venue still hasn't received the booking forms....ask him if he is still doing the event, if he says yes, ask him to sort the venue out with the forms. Then tell your contact at the venue that the booking forms will be heading to them, thank them for re-offering you the gig again but politely decline it. You'll still be in the venues good books as you've taken steps to get the confirmation sorted out.

Whatever you do, it's not a good idea to take the gig back from the other DJ.

Best of luck.

[DJMaxG]

If I was in Your situation, I'd probably use a DJ who was either :
- Employed by My Company (which I don't have yet)
- I knew well

That way, you are in more control, and the other DJ will certainly be more understanding.

[Charlie Brown]

I have just discovered that the DJ never sends out booking forms nor does he ask for a deposit.

The venue have been trying to contact him regarding music but he seems to only text?

I only found the number of the DJ and passed it onto the venue....I didn't book him personally on behalf of the venue...

Does that change anything?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have just discovered that the DJ never sends out booking forms nor does he ask for a deposit.

The venue have been trying to contact him regarding music but he seems to only text?

I only found the number of the DJ and passed it onto the venue....I didn't book him personally on behalf of the venue...

Does that change anything?

Yes, don't pass on numbers of others if you don't know what there business practices are or what kind of DJ they are.

Only recommend people you know and trust.

[DJMaxG]

Does that change anything?

Yes, it means that you are not connected to the DJ in any way, so any problems with him are therefore not your responsibility, but they may see it (although you haven't) as a reccomendation, and blame you for any potential misconduct or similar.

I would try and stick to local DJs that you know ;)

[DJWilson]

I have just discovered that the DJ never sends out booking forms nor does he ask for a deposit.

The venue have been trying to contact him regarding music but he seems to only text?

I only found the number of the DJ and passed it onto the venue....I didn't book him personally on behalf of the venue...

Does that change anything?

That doesn't make you look to good if you passed on/recommended that DJ.

And you shouldn't take the gig off him after passing it on.

[deltic]

I have just discovered that the DJ never sends out booking forms nor does he ask for a deposit.

The venue have been trying to contact him regarding music but he seems to only text?

I only found the number of the DJ and passed it onto the venue....I didn't book him personally on behalf of the venue...

Does that change anything?

then it is up to the hotel to do the hiring and the firing surely

[andyw]

yes charlie i would agree this does change things slightly, still very messy though. the way you gave the venue this guys number you might just as well of gave them the yellow pages and opened it at disco's for them,

[Happy Jack]

I think most have suggested you be gracious and honor the original agreement. From the sounds of things, I suspect you'd now actually prefer to take on the gig...

I'd approach your man and tell him you'll be taking the work. With the venue quite clearly pushing it in your direction once more, and with the things a little delicate with your man, it won't go down well if doesn't live up to expectations.

This air of doubt has already put an angle on it, so with the window open I'd follow through and confirm. Explain to your man that 'your service has been specifically requested', apologise for the inconvenience and tell him 'you will keep his details on file incase you ever need cover', which of course you won't. Business is business, and you being the bright young man you are will consider this a learning experience, I'm sure!

If you act as an agent on anyone's behalf, make sure you are confident of the product.

:beer1:

[Corabar Entertainment]

As you have had no contact with ths other DJ, and it has beenthe venue who has been dealing with him, do you know if they have 'texted' that DJ to say they no longer require his services due to his lack of response?

If they have done that already, then I see no reason why you shouldn't take the gig. However, if it couldbe a case of you both turning up on the nght, it could be extremely embarrassing and awkward.

As others have said, never just hand out a telephone number when you don't know who you're dealing with. Protect your reputation first and foremost..... it's the greatest asset your business will ever have! ;)

[Happy Jack]

However, if it could be a case of you both turning up on the nght, it could be extremely embarrassing and awkward.


Yeah! Charlie, if you do go for it, make sure you put your foot down.



Protect your reputation first and foremost..... it's the greatest asset your business will ever have! ;)

:beer1:

And blessed, we are, to be able to seek counsel from those with the wisdom and grace to share. I think, Charlie, you've got plenty of food for thought on this one!

[Charlie Brown]

The venue have cancled the other DJ. When I gave them the other DJ's number I made it very clear I didn't know what he offered, it was just someone to step in last minute.

[soundtracker]

One of the philosophies of the late great Bill Shankly (ex Liverpool Manager, for the sportingly challenged) was when you have a decision to make, and you're not sure what to do, do nothing, its amazing how often the problem sorts itself out.
Certainly seems to have worked in this case! Whilst C was phaffing about getting advice, the Hotel sorted it out for him! Learn from it Charlie!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

The venue have cancled the other DJ. When I gave them the other DJ's number I made it very clear I didn't know what he offered, it was just someone to step in last minute.


Probably a waste of time me commenting then but I will anyway.

At the end of the day Charlie, you asked this other DJ to cover you because you were'nt able to do the date yourself. If I ask someone to cover something for me, I always make sure that I know what they are like beforehand. Let's just say for example that the other DJ didn't bother turning up. It would'nt be him that would get the grief, it would be you and you could possibly lose your 'regular venue' because in a roundabout way you would've let the venue down.

On the other side, it was'nt the other DJ's fault that you were no longer able to go on your trip. He may have cancelled plans etc to cover your job for you so cancelling him would've been a bit out of order in my book.

Seeing as the venue has cancelled him now, it kind of gets you out of feeling bad but I would still feel a tad guilty mate. It's all experience though.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

sorry Charlie I like you but I think you have really let yourself down in this case. This sort of backstabbing goes on alot in this industry but I try where possible to rise above this.

[Corabar Entertainment]

From the other posts in this thread, I think I must have mis-read the situation. How I have read it, the situation transpired this way:

1. Charlie took a gig, but susequently realised he couldn't fulfil it and told the venue.
2. Charlie gave them the telephone number of another DJ (whom he did not know, nor did he have any contact with about the gig)
3. Venue contacted other DJ to make booking
4. Other DJ never confirmed in writing or obtained a deposit or replied to requests from venue
5. Venue (understandably) became rather nervous and during a conversation with Charlie asked if he could do it after all and cancelled the other DJ due to lack of response

Now, from my way of thinking, yes, Charlie could have handled the situation better by

a. Not originally taking the booking unless he was sure he was free to do the gig
b. Not giving them a telephone number for someone who he did not know or had any knowledge/ communication with

However, if there wasn't a 'history' on this gig, and you had just had a conversation with a client who told you that they had booked a DJ, but that said DJ had not confirmed anything and wasn't replying to comunications and so they were extremely nervous that said DJ would not turn up, so they wanted to cancel that DJ and get another one instead..... would you tell them that you wouldn't take the gig?

Have I misunderstood what transpired?

[Charlie Brown]

Ahh yes that's pretty much it!

I COULD do the gig until school asked me to attend a geography trip a few weeks later.

The venue KNEW I didn't know what the DJ was like but decided to "give him a whirl" anyhow.

I don't think the venue were TOO concerned about the booking form and deposit because he told them, "I don't bother with paper work, it's just more hassle for me and you."

So they offered me the job and cancled the other DJ.

I feel guilty but on the other hand, shouldn't he of sent out a booking form? Deposit? Terms and conditions? If he had then I reckon he would be working tomorrow night as the venue would of felt more inclined to have him?

[Mark Wild]

So they cancelled him today and the gigs tommorrow? Surely you haven't had time to get out a booking form, T&C's and receive a deposit either? It's all a bit messy & disorganised if you ask me.



I feel guilty but on the other hand, shouldn't he of sent out a booking form? Deposit? Terms and conditions? If he had then I reckon he would be working tomorrow night as the venue would of felt more inclined to have him?

Not sure about your comments there though tbh.

[Charlie Brown]

I know...I wish I had never rang them and told them I wasn't on the trip.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I know...I wish I had never rang them and told them I wasn't on the trip.
Ah, now that statement puts a different light on the situation to me.

Why did you ring them? That looks like you were trying to poach the gig.

[Charlie Brown]

I rang them and said...

"Hi there Samantha, it's Charlie Brown here...just to say, I'm not going on the geography trip any more, so I will probably pop down with a friends. Your still having the party etc?"

That's when she explained about the lack of booking form etc..and how he texts her etc.

[Silver]

My input for what it's worth. Sorry Charlie but that was serious bad practise, The fact that people don't send out booking forms, contracts etc. is not a cardinal sin, it's not against the law, simply the way some people work ...... like me! I don't let people down, I never have in over 25 years and don't intend to start now. He was still in contact with her via text, it might not be the best thing to do but he was still going to honour the 'contract', it's not as if she had not heard from him.

I don't understand ringing the venue to simply say "Oh I might pop down ..." Why not just turn up and enjoy the night and introduce yourself to the dj and build contacts. It looks like you were 'fishing' to maybe try and get the gig back. I've had residencies where I've put somebody else in to fill for various reasons and then found myself free that night but I would never dream of ringing them as you did. If I wanted to pop in, then I would but unannounced.

To me you have probably upset another dj, you will never get any work from him, a contact lost. I'm sorry but you can't beat the old adage ... Treat people the way you want to be treated. My apologies if I sound a tad harsh but this is my take on it from what I've read.

[Mark Wild]

Maybe the guy they cancelled will
pop down with a friends. just to say hi tommorrow lol.

[Charlie Brown]

My apologies if I sound a tad harsh but this is my take on it from what I've read.

No, no...it's a forum, open to debate.

However I wasn't fishing....just curious if the party was going ahead as I hadn't spoke to them in a few weeks. Friends will still come down and I will still have a good night.

Surely it's up to a boss who he/she hires and fires? I have never spoke to the DJ personally and he probably has no idea who I am. I just passed on a number I found on the internet and left it up to them.

I'm really surprised you don't deal with booking forms though. I thought that was good business practise?

Do you not have terms and conditions then?

[StarZSoundS]

Sorry Charlie but that was serious bad practise, The fact that people don't send out booking forms, contracts etc. is not a cardinal sin, it's not against the law, simply the way some people work ...... like me! I don't let people down, I never have in over 25 years and don't intend to start now.



Hi Ho Silver.

Just like me.....I don't ask for a penny before the evening and only want paying when I have given complete satisfaction....I have never not been paid yet.;)

I have only had one NO SHOW in the last 5 years!!

[NKR]

Hi Ho Silver.

Just like me.....I don't ask for a penny before the evening and only want paying when I have given complete satisfaction....I have never not been paid yet.;)

I have only had one NO SHOW in the last 5 years!!

Payment on the night in full for me once the rig is up and running. I don't take deposits. I have not had a failure to fulfill event by the client yet so happy with the arrangement.

[Charlie Brown]

Do you still ask your clients to sign a booking form and terms and conditions though?

[NKR]

Do you still ask your clients to sign a booking form and terms and conditions though?

Depends on who they are, but in the majority of cases yes we do.

For a number of established clients and associates its a verbal handshake.

[Charlie Brown]

Depends on who they are, but in the majority of cases yes we do.

For a number of established clients and associates its a verbal handshake.

Ditto....

[Mark Wild]

Hi Ho Silver.

Just like me.....I don't ask for a penny before the evening and only want paying when I have given complete satisfaction....I have never not been paid yet.;)

I have only had one NO SHOW in the last 5 years!!

That's fantastic, you da man ;) So you think no confirmation, T&C's or NRBF is the way forward for this industry? Try not to include the fact you worked side saddle man and boy in your answer please. :p

[StarZSoundS]

That's fantastic, you da man ;) So you think no confirmation, T&C's or NRBF is the way forward for this industry? Try not to include the fact you worked side saddle man and boy in your answer please. :p

OK ....The reason I started in the business.

I was at a wedding and I heard The Bride moaning her back wheel off about the poor DJ (and he was poor)....something along the lines of...

"I paid (past tense) £xxxx for this jerk and this is what I got!!"

I said to my mate who I was with....."I think I could do better than this".
He had the technical knowledge and I had the front....so we went into business together.We have of course both split succesfully...tho I am still short of technical knowledge.

We decided to give value first and then ask for renumeration.....old fashioned I know but its worked for me......

At 51 I would find it hard to change and take the view that If it ain't broken don't fix it....I surely ain't got that many more years left in the business anyway.

Do you know if you went for a meal twenty years ago you would eat your meal and pay on your departure from the Restaurant.The Waiter would know who you were without having your table number:bang:and you woudn't have to pay for your meal before you ate it.

So ....In answer to your question.....all those essentials that you mentioned as the way forward are not applicable to me.Like Silver says I'm not breaking any laws by doing it in this fashion and the amount of business I have reflects the trust my regular clients have in me....and I in them.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Whether you like it or not, it is still worth doing.
Terms and Conditions and Booking Fees / Deposits, are what (I guess), people expect. It covers them because they know where their money is going and it is acounted for and it also makes us look less like cowboys.

Charlie, you mucked (sp) up on this one and as I said, take it with experience.

[Charlie Brown]

Charlie, you mucked (sp) up on this one and as I said, take it with experience.

Fair enough. Thanks sir. :)

[Silver]

Do you not have terms and conditions then?

No, I don't. 95% plus of my bookings are pub bookings, a football club where I am their main/first choice dj and quizzes. This year to date I've had one cancellation from a client at a golf club and that's for TONIGHT!!! :)

To date I've not got a website either, not needed one. I've worked 3 weekends out 4 for the past 5 years on average plus a weekly pub quiz and a fortnightly pub quiz.

However the pub trade is changing and they are really struggling around here now. So I'm looking at the possibility of setting up a website, if that happens then yes I will set up some T&C's. http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-7043.gif http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-7040.gif

[StarZSoundS]

Whether you like it or not, it is still worth doing.
Terms and Conditions and Booking Fees / Deposits, are what (I guess), people expect. It covers them because they know where their money is going and it is acounted for and it also makes us look less like cowboys.

Charlie, you mucked (sp) up on this one and as I said, take it with experience.


Deliberate pun?Sidesaddle/Cowboy??;)

The difference is that 80% of my business is repeat business.I tend to get a wedding then a milestone birthday from another member of the attending guests.I have done kids parties for the same child when they are 5,6,7 etc.I haven't got a website and lack a lot of technical ability....It has been a miracle I have got through the thousands of hours I have with what I know about equipment .....Not sure that that makes me a cowboy but maybe.


If I start waving the documents you are suggesting under regular customers noses they are going to say....

"You are having a Larf "

My customers don't need protecting from me(I have an excellent reputation)....and if any of them let me down i'll be dissapointed....but i'll get over it:)

[soundtracker]

Hello. I'm 51, I've been DJing since the 70s. My work is all covered with booking forms, deposits and contracts, the sort of people that I aim my business at expect it, even those that don't expect it, get it anyway!
My diary(at this stage) for next year is 30% up on where it was at the start of 2009, and the feedback that I receive tells me that there are a few years left in the old boy yet, I have just been added to the recommended list of a very nice local wedding venue, which should boost next year even further.
I joined this site four and a half years ago, my attitude has always been that"the past is the past", I have listened to what the successful people on here have said(whatever age)and applied my motto(stolen from the Round Table) of "adopt, adapt, improve" I don't profess to know it all, to be the best DJ, or indeed the best business man, I have made mistakes, and continue to do so, but I do try and learn from them. As someone much wiser than me once said, "if you always do, what you've always done, then you'll always get, what you've always got" Experience in this game can be very important, but it can also be a disguise, there is a thin line between thirty years experience, and one years experience, thirty times!
My equipment does not include, lightscreens, ropelights, or flashing beacons, and is all current.
The music I play covers the decades, although is not rooted in the past.
I do not possess a stetson(sorry Al) and do not require stabling facilities when I arrive at a venue.
Oh and did I mention I don't play Aga bleeding Doo!

[StarZSoundS]

"if you always do, what you've always done, then you'll always get, what you've always got" .
Oh and did I mention I don't play Aga bleeding Doo!


Two different 51 year olds....theres nothing wrong with that.My business has been and continues to be a good provider for me.I know my limitations though.I am happy with my contented market and knocked out with the positive feedback I receive on nearly all occasions.Nobody has ever said my lights would look better if they were DMXed or if I swapped the Gobos(I don't even know where they are....let alone swap them:bang: ).

Oh! I do ocassionally play Agadoo....butI don't think its their best one:sofa:


No, I don't. 95% plus of my bookings are pub bookings, a football club where I am their main/first choice dj and quizzes. This year to date I've had one cancellation from a client at a golf club and that's for TONIGHT!!! :)

To date I've not got a website either, not needed one. I've worked 3 weekends out 4 for the past 5 years on average plus a weekly pub quiz and a fortnightly pub quiz.

However the pub trade is changing and they are really struggling around here now. So I'm looking at the possibility of setting up a website, if that happens then yes I will set up some T&C's. http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-7043.gif http://planetsmilies.net/sign-smiley-7040.gif


You may be miles away but you are my Doppelanger.I'm pleased.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Not aimed at anyone here, but just thought i would throw it out...

How can "doing it for years" and "being out xxx times a year" constitute as good reasons for not following (general) business best practises?

[StarZSoundS]

Lets assume that was directed at me....



The best business practises are opinions not laws.A quick check would prove that I am totally legal...Accountant,pli etc etc


I couldn't cope with much more than I have got at the moment.Not convinced that issuing contracts is going to enhance my regular business.And in answer to your question ...I'm sure being out as often as possible is what we all strive for.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Lets assume that was directed at me....



The best business practises are opinions not laws.A quick check would prove that I am totally legal...Accountant,pli etc etc


I couldn't cope with much more than I have got at the moment.Not convinced that issuing contracts is going to enhance my regular business.And in answer to your question ...I'm sure being out as often as possible is what we all strive for.

Not particularry, yes there is you but there are others on the forum...not just people who've posted in this thread who dont bother with paperwork.

Would you happily hand over your money to some guy doing your driveway without paperwork?

[theoloyla]

Not aimed at anyone here, but just thought i would throw it out...

How can "doing it for years" and "being out xxx times a year" constitute as good reasons for not following (general) business best practises?

It cant! I'm with Pete the soundtracker on this one. I am even older at 59 and have been dj'ing for 43 years. I too nearly always work with contracts, t's & c's, deposits and all other legitimate items. I never expected to still be dj'ing at my age. The industry will retire me at some stage or I will become unable to continue but I partly put my long career down the ability to change the music, equipment and business practices I use. I will also play "Agadoo" if requested.
As for Charlie. You have made a bit of a fist of this. I find people like certainty and not ditherers. Once you have made a decision stick to it. It will probably all turn out OK in the end.

[theoloyla]

Not particularry, yes there is you but there are others on the forum...not just people who've posted in this thread who dont bother with paperwork.

Would you happily hand over your money to some guy doing your driveway without paperwork?
People must do that every week as I am always reading about dodgy builders etc in the news.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

People must do that every week as I am always reading about dodgy builders etc in the news.

And every week people hand over plenty of money to dodgy DJs too Theo ;)

Difference is because our industry isnt regulated, they can get away with it and it hardly ever makes the press.

[StarZSoundS]

Not aimed at anyone here, but just thought i would throw it out...

How can "doing it for years" and "being out xxx times a year" constitute as good reasons for not following (general) business best practises?


Ironically.....YES.

I've just spent £10,000 on tradesmen renovating an old property.I have had fantastic value.I paid them what I thought was fair at the end of each day cash...same values applied to Disco business.Value For Money and everyones happy;)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Ummm....wonder if the tax man is seing that £10,000 cash you paid them.

[rob1963]

I think there are two morals to this story, Charlie:

1) If you turn down a booking due to another commitment but then become free, do not contact the people to let them know you are now free, even it it's just to ask if the party is still on & to say you'll pop down with some friends.

2) If someone wants to book you but you're unavailable, do not give them numbers of other discos you know nothing about which you've just found on the internet...even if you DO make it clear that you don't know them. They may as well do the Googling themselves. That way, there is no risk of any comeback on you if the other disco does not come up to their expectations.

:)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I think there are two morals to this story, Charlie:

1) If you turn down a booking due to another commitment but then become free, do not contact the people to let them know you are now free, even it it's just to ask if the party is still on & to say you'll pop down with some friends.

2) If someone wants to book you but you're unavailable, do not give them numbers of other discos you know nothing about which you've just found on the internet...even if you DO make it clear that you don't know them. They may as well do the Googling themselves. That way, there is no risk of any comeback on you if the other disco does not come up to their expectations.

:)

Im 100% with Rob on this one

[ppentertainments]

Wise words Mr James, and I think sums up how to deal with such a situation if one ever arose

[Silver]

Would you happily hand over your money to some guy doing your driveway without paperwork?

Personally I don't think you can compare doing a driveway with a disco for one evening. If I had my drive done, then yes I would want paperwork as part of a guarantee, should weeds start sprouting up or it starts to crack or shift. You would need something to say who did the job and when to make a claim.

However, with a disco it's say booked for 31st October 2009, you turn up, the party people turn up, you play music and chat, the party people drink and party then everybody goes home, end of story. You've been paid for your services and that's it. No need for any paperwork, apart maybe for the odd business card or three! :)

[NKR]

Would you happily hand over your money to some guy doing your driveway without paperwork?

I handed over £35,000 to the chap doing my extension without so much as a JCT or even a letter of instruction, or any paperwork whatsoever.

He got paid in installments as the job was going along. How much does £35,000 buy you - 600 sq.ft. finished with underfloor heating and no less than 4 sets of french doors with additional side panels.

Depends who you trust.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

No need for any paperwork, apart maybe for the odd business card or three! :)

I completely disagree.

No protection for either you or the client.

I can't believe people still do business (and I use the term loosely!) this way.

[Silver]

Deliberate pun?Sidesaddle/Cowboy??;)

If I start waving the documents you are suggesting under regular customers noses they are going to say....

"You are having a Larf "

My customers don't need protecting from me(I have an excellent reputation)....and if any of them let me down i'll be dissapointed....but i'll get over it:)

Ditto! :D

The cancellation for tonight is at a golf club where I get a fair amount of work. They had a band, a magician and me booked, unfortunately they only sold 36 tickets. Had there been a contract and I had invoked say a 30% cancellation fee clause then I would never ever work there again!

So what would be the point of having a contract with them?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I handed over £35,000 to the chap doing my extension without so much as a JCT or even a letter of instruction, or any paperwork whatsoever.



And how would you have felt if he didn't turn up? What protection would you have had? What would you tell the police?

[Shaun]

However, with a disco it's say booked for 31st October 2009, you turn up, the party people turn up, you play music and chat, the party people drink and party then everybody goes home, end of story. You've been paid for your services and that's it. No need for any paperwork, apart maybe for the odd business card or three! :)

It's not quite as straightforward as that. Paperwork (invoices) are still required for tax purposes.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ditto! :D

The cancellation for tonight is at a golf club where I get a fair amount of work. They had a band, a magician and me booked, unfortunately they only sold 36 tickets. Had there been a contract and I had invoked say a 30% cancellation fee clause then I would never ever work there again!

So what would be the point of having a contract with them?

They obviously don't take you seriously enough then.

I have several fairly large clients who I get work off but I still charge them cancellation fees and they respect the fact that I run a business and have bills to pay.

[Charlie Brown]

Ok, I have learnt my lesson and I understand.

I guess scenarios like this suggest the decessions I make are still quite immature and I have a lot more to learn yet. :o

I also completely agree with Pete. I think ANYONE who doesn't deal with booking forms and deposits are just asking for trouble.

[NKR]

And how would you have felt if he didn't turn up? What protection would you have had? What would you tell the police?

He was paid in installments for work completed, so no issues there as only paid for majority of the work on PC.

I am a qualified surveyor, so could make the inspections as work went went along, so I know its going to stand up. I checked all the materials orders for quality as they arrived. I signed off the founds with building control, etc.

My case is a bit different and I would not recommend getting building work without the minimum of a JCT drawn up by a building surveyors practice. This will cost you but worth it for protection.

If he hadn't turned up it would have impacted on the vast amount of commercial work he was doing for me at that time.

[Silver]

I completely disagree.

No protection for either you or the client.

I can't believe people still do business (and I use the term loosely!) this way.

I would suggest a lot of this goes down to the market you work in. If you get a lot of business from a website and the people are complete strangers to you and venues all over the place then fair enough, paperwork is a sensible prudent measure.

However if you are dealing with people you know, who trust you and you trust them with gentlemen's agreements in place then 'paperwork', for me, would be completely unnecessary.

I network with 4 local dj's, work passes between us helping each other out. We are all busy but none of us have contracts, t&c's etc. None of us have ever been let down or let the customer down.

As I said in an earlier post, if I go to having a website, I will definitely get 'paperwork' drawn up.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I network with 4 local dj's, work passes between us helping each other out. We are all busy but none of us have contracts, t&c's etc. None of us have ever been let down or let the customer down.


But there still isn't any protection for you or the client.

It's all very well to say that you haven't let anyone down or no-one has cancelled etc, but what do you do if it does happen?

[NKR]

I network with 4 local dj's, work passes between us helping each other out. We are all busy but none of us have contracts, t&c's etc. None of us have ever been let down or let the customer down.



Similar position for me in terms of network of DJs keeping each other in work.
However we have a casino client we have paperwork for and anyone not coming directly from a recommended source then we put a contract in place and deposit for.

Its a trust thing in the end of the day. It also depends what work you are taking. Weddings I have only ever had one cancellation and parties booked always seem to go ahead for us. Its the staff parties and stuff with tickets being sold which are a pain in the back side as if they don't get enough bodies they cancel. Those events always get paperwork and cancellation fee.

I am part time so doesn't put food on the table. If I was full time I would be 100% contract based with full papertrails as if its your main income you need to protect it.

[Silver]

It's not quite as straightforward as that. Paperwork (invoices) are still required for tax purposes.


I keep a complete record of all my dates, the fact the customer has nothing from me, as far as the Inland Revenue are concerned is irrelevant. As long as I declare all my fee income to the Inland Revenue I am working legally, am I not?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I am part time so doesn't put food on the table. If I was full time I would be 100% contract based with full papertrails as if its your main income you need to protect it.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

The contract is there to protect you and the client.

[NKR]

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense.

The contract is there to protect you and the client.

Protect the client from what? My post in full points to the fact we use contracts where a a job hasn't come from a known source.

[Silver]

But there still isn't any protection for you or the client.

It's all very well to say that you haven't let anyone down or no-one has cancelled etc, but what do you do if it does happen?

I fully accept that. My view though is that should one day, God forbid I let somebody down, maybe through illness, accident etc. the fact there is a contract and the client can get the fee back from me does not alter the fact they will not have their party. Now THAT is the problem for me and money cannot change that. No amount of paperwork could alter that.

I am the one taking the risk, call it 'old school' but I don't like getting paid before I do a job, I like to feel I've earned the money on the night. Having said that I do ask for payment before I start. http://planetsmilies.net/winking-smiley-41.gif

[Charlie Brown]

I get the feeling you find paperwork boring and in fact you would rather "trust" your clients and "hope for the best" instead of popping out a few forms.

To be fair, it's doing half a job and just laziness. I believe paperwork is crucial between the client and yourself. Paperwork seals up any lack of communication between the two party's.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Protect the client from what?

Nothing.

:bang:

People don't seem to learn anything from here sometimes.

[NKR]

I fully accept that. My view though is that should one day, God forbid I let somebody down, maybe through illness, accident etc. the fact there is a contract and the client can get the fee back from me does not alter the fact they will not have their party. Now THAT is the problem for me and money cannot change that. No amount of paperwork could alter that.

I am the one taking the risk, call it 'old school' but I don't like getting paid before I do a job, I like to feel I've earned the money on the night. Having said that I do ask for payment before I start. http://planetsmilies.net/winking-smiley-41.gif

I agree with that and operate much the same for a number of my clients. If I go down ill, have an accident, etc, I have a wide number of folk I can call on to cover. We cover as many bases as we can for potential problems, paperwork is not going to alter that.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I agree with that and operate much the same for a number of my clients. If I go down ill, have an accident, etc, I have a wide number of folk I can call on to cover. We cover as many bases as we can for potential problems, paperwork is not going to alter that.

Any professional business will have paperwork to protect both parties and ensure the work is done to the standard that you are offering your services to.

If you don't do that, then fair enough.

[Silver]

I get the feeling you find paperwork boring and in fact you would rather "trust" your clients and "hope for the best" instead of popping out a few forms.

To be fair, it's doing half a job and just laziness. I believe paperwork is crucial between the client and yourself. Paperwork seals up any lack of communication between the two party's.

No, not really boring, just in the market I work in simply unnecessary. I have contact with all bookings via e mail confirming dates, times, choice of music, requests, special requirements i.e. lighting, smoke, strobe. With my occasional (as in I don't do that many) weddings I always meet with the couple and discuss details, write it down, visit the venue if it's a new one, talk to the venue management, establish all relevant information that could affect the booking. I am thorough! :D

[Charlie Brown]

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

[Silver]

Any professional business will have paperwork to protect both parties and ensure the work is done to the standard that you are offering your services to.


Okay but going back to what I said, let's say you slipped and broke your ankle, the morning of a birthday party. You have 5, 15, 25, 50 dj's you network with and they are all busy, you can get no one to cover for you ... what happens?

How can contracts resolve the situation. Please I'm not being argumentative, simply trying to establish how paperwork could protect a client in this most unfortunate situation. :)

[Silver]

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I will agree with you on that! http://planetsmilies.net/music-smiley-1306.gif

[Corabar Entertainment]

Okay but going back to what I said, let's say you slipped and broke your ankle, the morning of a birthday party. You have 5, 15, 25, 50 dj's you network with and they are all busy, you can get no one to cover for you ... what happens?

How can contracts resolve the situation. Please I'm not being argumentative, simply trying to establish how paperwork could protect a client in this most unfortunate situation. :)Let's ask some other questions:

a drunk punter at one of your gigs trips over headlong into your kit and expensive items get damaged. You happy to just take that as 'part of the job' and pay for replacements? Whatever the answer, both parties know what to expect, rather than you assuming something to be the case, and them assuming something else.

during the course of the night, some/all of your lighting goes out (maybe nothing to do with your kit, maybe an electrical problem). Are your clients entitle to a full refund? A partial reund? No refund? Who decides what's fair?

Who is responsible for obtaining /checking about any necessary licences?

Just a few off the top of my head. A contract is far more than "The DJ will turn up with kit and play and the client will pay"

Oh -and in he example you have given about getting cover, your contract should list what steps you will take to try and obtain cover (giving the client some peace of mind that back-up plans are inplace and tht you simply won't just call and say 'not coming'), and also set out the limit of your liability if it happens. (damages for the cost of the whole wedding 'ruined' anyone?)

[Charlie Brown]

Well said. :)

[NKR]

Let's ask some other questions:

a drunk punter at one of your gigs trips over headlong into your kit and expensive items get damaged. You happy to just take that as 'part of the job' and pay for replacements? Whatever the answer, both parties know what to expect, rather than you assuming something to be the case, and them assuming something else.

during the course of the night, some/all of your lighting goes out (maybe nothing to do with your kit, maybe an electrical problem). Are your clients entitle to a full refund? A partial reund? No refund? Who decides what's fair?

Who is responsible for obtaining /checking about any necessary licences?

Just a few off the top of my head. A contract is far more than "The DJ will turn up with kit and play and the client will pay"

Oh -and in he example you have given about getting cover, your contract should list what steps you will take to try and obtain cover (giving the client some peace of mind that back-up plans are inplace and tht you simply won't just call and say 'not coming'), and also set out the limit of your liability if it happens. (damages for the cost of the whole wedding 'ruined' anyone?)

Good points however.

Point 1 - whether its in your contract or not I can't see you getting any joy in the small claims court for drunken idiot in kit crash.

Point 2 - if my lights fail I have a batch of spares in the trailer. If its an electrical fault I have enought extension cables to pull power from up to 50m away so unless the whole venue fails (and that ain't my fault) then will be fine.

Point 3 - I have the necessary licenses to operate as a mobile disco and if the venue was not a usual feature I would raise PRS in an e-mail.

I am aware of what the contract covers, but all of the points in the contract are generally focused on who is liable if something goes wrong and design to limit liability for the DJ not to protect the client.

As I said earlier on I operate a contract where I don't know the people or its not a recommendation. Incidently I do generally ask on recommendations whether they wish for me to draw a contract up or are they happy with everything. I always confirm by e-mail and it covers the salient points.

If I don't know the folks then the contract comes into use.

Its a trust thing for me! Again as I said earlier if this was my bread and butter then I would run it fully contracted. For me its a hobby and I use that word in the loosest form as we do treat it professionally.

[andyw]

a contract would prevent someone stealing your gig (:) sorry charlie, well it would leave you with at least a deposit). i think it gives peace of mind to everyone

[PropellerHeadCase]

Point 1 - whether its in your contract or not I can't see you getting any joy in the small claims court for drunken idiot in kit crash.

On the contrary, I had a lap-top smashed by a drunken idiot at a corporate do in NZ. Met with client, went back over Ts & Cs - walked out with replacement lap-top.



Point 2 - if my lights fail I have a batch of spares in the trailer. If its an electrical fault I have enought extension cables to pull power from up to 50m away so unless the whole venue fails (and that ain't my fault) then will be fine.

I once had my system go down due to some electrical work being done elsewhere in the venue - workman pulled the wrong fuse during the first dance... did they care that it was the fault of a workman elsewhere in the building whom they had never seen? Er, no. Perception is reality. Your standpoint is based on full knowledge of electric and equipment - you can't assume that knowledge, or even commonsense, necessarily, on the part of your client.



Point 3 - I have the necessary licenses to operate as a mobile disco and if the venue was not a usual feature I would raise PRS in an e-mail.

...And if you didn't know until you got there? To play illegally? Or not to play, also illegally? Their agreement with you is to play, with no stipulation as to licenses.



I am aware of what the contract covers, but all of the points in the contract are generally focused on who is liable if something goes wrong and design to limit liability for the DJ not to protect the client.

Failure to show, replacement, etc., for the client.



As I said earlier on I operate a contract where I don't know the people or its not a recommendation. Incidently I do generally ask on recommendations whether they wish for me to draw a contract up or are they happy with everything. I always confirm by e-mail and it covers the salient points.

Last I checked emails weren't actually legally binding.



If I don't know the folks then the contract comes into use.

Its a trust thing for me! Again as I said earlier if this was my bread and butter then I would run it fully contracted. For me its a hobby and I use that word in the loosest form as we do treat it professionally.

Except that you don't treat it professionally or you would always be contracted - having a signed contract is, by definition, professional, failure to have a contract is, by definition, not.

[NKR]

Last I checked emails weren't actually legally binding.



Just out of interest what did you check for that?

E-mails can form part or all of a legally binding contract unless stated subject to contract. Please feel free to educate me to the contrary. I suggest you check case law before attempting to do so. So if I outline my terms in an e-mail and it is accepted it is binding.

In the day job a number of things are done on accepted protocols and not contracted and these can relate to some quite serious introduction fees. A confirmation of an introduction via e-mail is enough to bind two parties to some substantial fees if transactions complete.

Again no worries I will operate my way. What people appear to be missing is that if I don't know the folks or its not a word of mouth recommendation from a friend of a friend then I put a contract in place.

One final point is I have no idea how you can make a judgement on my attitude to the business, my quality of show, quality of performance and satisfaction of my customers (all the things I use to define professional approach) because I don't always use a piece of paper.

Like Silver I am not looking for a row its just my point of view, which is what open forums are for.

[StarZSoundS]

Again no worries I will operate my way.

One final point is I have no idea how you can make a judgement on my attitude to the business, my quality of show, quality of performance and satisfaction of my customers (all the things I use to define professional approach) because I don't always use a piece of paper.



Good for you and Silver...I say.:) :) :)

[soundtracker]

Which is all very well, except that this forum was set up to promote best practice in this industry and to help drag it kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. I don't see the benefit to anybody of promoting poor practice!

[StarZSoundS]

Which is all very well, except that this forum was set up to promote best practice in this industry and to help drag it kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. I don't see the benefit to anybody of promoting poor practice!

But isn't the best practise yours and whoevers opinion.....


If waving contracts and t&c under my regular customers noses is going to scare them off then it is not my best practise....and incidentally I seem to be remarkably busy.


If the sole purpose of the site was to promote yours and whoevers best practise then I am afraid I misjudged it.I came on here to chat to other DJ's and listen to their views and perhaps help some younger ones(when they ask for it)...see original poster.Perhaps also pick up a bit of technical knowledge....equipmernt reviews...party ideas.

I don't need a best business practise cos i'm not starting out!!

[soundtracker]

I don't need a best business practise cos i'm not starting out!!

and therein lies the problem - there is no point in trying to discuss anything with you as you obviously already know it all.

[StarZSoundS]

and therein lies the problem - there is no point in trying to discuss anything with you as you obviously already know it all.

Nope:bang:

I know enough to keep my business legimately increasing year on year to the point where I can hardly do anymore (at weekends).Maybe your best practise document has a few tips on finding Mon/Tues/Wed work cos that would be real useful;)

[soundtracker]

My tip would be to charge more than £115 for a karaoke residency on a Friday, that may increase your turnover.

[Corabar Entertainment]

But isn't the best practise yours and whoevers opinion.....In somecases, yes, we are discussing differing opinions to see what each of us believe are 'best practises' for this industry, but I think that you'll find that having paperwork is generally regarded as best practice throughout almost all industries worldwide.

Having said that,

If waving contracts and t&c under my regular customers noses is going to scare them off then it is not my best practiseI can understand why someone who has been doing this job with the same clients for years without a contract would not want to start issuing contracts to those same clients now.

Nevertheless,

I came on here........ [to] help some younger ones(when they ask for it)...Would you seriously advise a DJ starting out today not to bother with contracts? :confused:

...and yes, this site WAS set up to try and promote professionalism within the industry by sharing ideas, and it has helped literally hundreds or even thousands of DJs.

Of course, it's up to you what you do with your own business, but surely you can understand why others would contradict you when you appear to be advocating something that goes so against 'best practice' basics?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You're wasting your breath Ang.

[Corabar Entertainment]

LOL...s'okay, I was breathing anyway ;)

[NKR]

I have just heard the same rumour again about one of the bigger Manchester agencies going under taking a load of deposits with it and owing entertainers an awful lot of money.

I assume their contracts will make sufficient toilet paper as I doubt the liquidator is going to find a lot of cash knocking about.

A contract is all good and well as long as the company remains solvent.

I am only playing devils advocate and yes if you are full time and your sole income is from the industry you need to protect yourself.

[Silver]

My tip would be to charge more than £115 for a karaoke residency on a Friday, that may increase your turnover.

I'm sorry but that is oh so easy to say when you are hundreds of miles away. I have worked in all the pubs around my home town that have dj's/karaoke. If you can get more than £120 for a regular gig then quite simply you are a better man than me Gunga Din!

There are people popping business cards into pubs offering dj services for a £100 and quiz nights for £65.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I'm sorry but that is oh so easy to say when you are hundreds of miles away. I have worked in all the pubs around my home town that have dj's/karaoke. If you can get more than £120 for a regular gig then quite simply you are a better man than me Gunga Din!

There are people popping business cards into pubs offering dj services for a £100 and quiz nights for £65.

sell yourself better then. Make it worth paying the money.

[soundtracker]

I'm sorry but that is oh so easy to say when you are hundreds of miles away. I have worked in all the pubs around my home town that have dj's/karaoke. If you can get more than £120 for a regular gig then quite simply you are a better man than me Gunga Din!

There are people popping business cards into pubs offering dj services for a £100 and quiz nights for £65.

Distance my friend has nothing to do it! It may well be that £120 is the going rate for Karaoke in a pub, I don't know or really care - what I do know is that I've done 30 Friday Weddings this year, at a slightly higher fee, because this is where I target my services. If you are not aware Herefordshire is a poorly connected rural backwater with a very small population, where the local DJs regularly tell me that I'll never get more than £200 for a gig around here - and you know what? They won't, because they fully believe it!

[Corabar Entertainment]

I have just heard the same rumour again about one of the bigger Manchester agencies going under taking a load of deposits with it and owing entertainers an awful lot of money.

I assume their contracts will make sufficient toilet paper as I doubt the liquidator is going to find a lot of cash knocking about.

A contract is all good and well as long as the company remains solvent.

I am only playing devils advocate and yes if you are full time and your sole income is from the industry you need to protect yourself....but if those entertainers and clients have contracts, then they are at least listed as creditors and have a chance of getting something back, but if they don't have a contract then they can go whistle!

No, contracts aren't a magic pill, but both you and the client are in a better position with one than without!

(and yes, I know you're playing devil's advocate ;) )

[rob1963]

I'm not suggesting anything here, merely asking a couple of questions & giving people something to think about.

1) How many cowboys have no contracts, no terms & conditions and no booking forms?

2) How many of us are happy to be similar in ANY way to the cowboys in our industry?

:shrug:

[soundtracker]

Its funny that when I get phone-calls the week before a party asking if I am available, that the person making the last minute enquiry has always been let down by somebody with whom they had no contract, and had paid no deposit! I don't remember ever hearing from anybody that had been let down by a DJ where a contract was in place!

[Silver]

sell yourself better then. Make it worth paying the money.
Throw away statements like that really do make my blood boil!
http://planetsmilies.net/angry-smiley-8318.gif

[NKR]

No, contracts aren't a magic pill, but both you and the client are in a better position with one than without!

(and yes, I know you're playing devil's advocate ;) )

Agreed. I won't take on any agency work without one;)

I also wouldn't have worked for that agency, but they supplied over 30 hotels in Manchester and Cheshire I am led to believe.

I thought you might. :D

[andyw]

i turned up at a venue earlier this year and another dj had already set up waiting to do the gig (its funny now but was not at the time), a quick phone call to the client and me producing a signed contract sorted it all out, had to wait for him to dismantle before we could set up but not a problem. :)

[Shaun]

i turned up at a venue earlier this year and another dj had already set up waiting to do the gig (its funny now but was not at the time), a quick phone call to the client and me producing a signed contract sorted it all out, had to wait for him to dismantle before we could set up but not a problem. :)

I've been in an identical situation. The client turned up and the other DJ said to her that he might as well do the gig as he was already set up. I explained to the client that it wouldn't be a problem if she wanted to use the services of the other DJ, but payment would be owed in full as per contract.

It transpires that she had booked the other DJ, but later down the line forgot she had booked him and ultimately booked another DJ (me). The other DJ didn't have a contract so was asked to pack up and leave. I did feel sorry for the other guy though.

[andyw]

It transpires that she had booked the other DJ, but later down the line forgot she had booked him and ultimately booked another DJ (me). The other DJ didn't have a contract so was asked to pack up and leave. I did feel sorry for the other guy though.

and what would of happened if you didn't have a contract

[Charlie Brown]

a contract would prevent someone stealing your gig (:) sorry charlie, well it would leave you with at least a deposit). i think it gives peace of mind to everyone

Huh?

[StarZSoundS]

Its funny that when I get phone-calls the week before a party asking if I am available, that the person making the last minute enquiry has always been let down by somebody with whom they had no contract, and had paid no deposit! I don't remember ever hearing from anybody that had been let down by a DJ where a contract was in place!


Never had a contract and never let any body down!!

"Let people down....THE HELL I WILL" (John Wayne/Cowboy).

[soundtracker]

Never had a contract and never let any body down!!

"Let people down....THE HELL I WILL" (John Wayne/Cowboy).

Only yourself

[StarZSoundS]

Only yourself

The desire not too let anyone down comes from the heart not a contract.It is the subject of my worst nightmare.If people were to let me down I would put it down to experience....Its not as though I won't be eating the following week if they do and its not happened yet!!

This is the difference between some of our businesses.I am not chosen cos I have a flashy website by some faceless corporate wannabe.Usually I am chosen because I have done an outstanding reasonably priced red letter occassion.....and somebody watching wants the same value for thier red letter occassion.

I'm big enough to accept your place in the market....all I ask is that you accept mine.Nothing wrong with Nettos...they are springing up everywhere....AND BOY ARE SAINSBURYS LOOKING OVER THEIR SHOULDER AT THEM!!:eek:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Would you not like to improve your business practise and earning potential as well as being regarded more highly by the general public?

[NKR]

Would you not like to improve your business practise and earning potential as well as being regarded more highly by the general public?

I think this comes back to location you are operating in. There are lots of people on here that state you can earn more if you sell yourself better.

I have noted that plenty of these are Home Counties, Thames Valley, Cotswolds based. Check out your demographic and thats why you can earn more.

I am personally working on a web site at present to improve the front end of the business, but it will only increase throughput not cost per unit. £200 is this little bit of Lancashires limit for the average DJ and thats where we are. We only get that because of reputation many are working for cheaper.

[soundtracker]

I think this comes back to location you are operating in. There are lots of people on here that state you can earn more if you sell yourself better.

I have noted that plenty of these are Home Counties, Thames Valley, Cotswolds based. Check out your demographic and thats why you can earn more.

I am personally working on a web site at present to improve the front end of the business, but it will only increase throughput not cost per unit. £200 is this little bit of Lancashires limit for the average DJ and thats where we are. We only get that because of reputation many are working for cheaper.

Which is exactly what the local's tell me around here! And who wants to be an average DJ anyway? I know at least half a dozen DJs in Lancashire that regularly earn double that amount.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think this comes back to location you are operating in. There are lots of people on here that state you can earn more if you sell yourself better.

I have noted that plenty of these are Home Counties, Thames Valley, Cotswolds based. Check out your demographic and thats why you can earn more.


I know that to be nonsense, so won't comment, apart from to say I know a lot of DJs up North who earn very good money.

That wasn't the question I asked though.

[NKR]

I know that to be nonsense, so won't comment, apart from to say I know a lot of DJs up North who earn very good money.

That wasn't the question I asked though.

You did ask about earning potential!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You did ask about earning potential!

And you only answered on one point and that was a standard "I can't get anymore than that as I live in XXX"

I asked would you like to, not if you thought you could.


Would you not like to improve your business practise and earning potential as well as being regarded more highly by the general public?

[StarZSoundS]

Here is a bit of a clue...

I have just bought a 3 bedroomed end terrace (2 houses in one) house for £57,000 in YORKSHIRE . Bellshill....one of the more respected members on here admits £120 a night aint bad for a regular Friday residency in GLASGOW.NKR is fighting for his right to still stay working at his (in your opinion) ridiculously low rate in LANCASHIRE.

Now unless somebody invents a Star Trek transporter that also takes your rig down South the problem could remain.Don't bother me...I'm happy with what I get for what I enjoy doing.My second favouritest job....after being a Gigolo.

[NKR]

And you only answered on one point and that was a standard "I can't get anymore than that as I live in XXX"

I asked would you like to, not if you thought you could.

If I could make more out of it then I would, but for now it is what is.

I am sure there are DJ's up north doing very well, but they will no doubt be operating in the affluent Cheshire, Manchester, Fylde Coast, etc areas.

[soundtracker]

If I could make more out of it then I would, but for now it is what is.

I am sure there are DJ's up north doing very well, but they will no doubt be operating in the affluent Cheshire, Manchester, Fylde Coast, etc areas.

So do you not have transport?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Here is a bit of a clue...



For what? I'm not sure who the post was aimed at. Can you use the quote button and then it makes sense.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If I could make more out of it then I would, but for now it is what is.

I am sure there are DJ's up north doing very well, but they will no doubt be operating in the affluent Cheshire, Manchester, Fylde Coast, etc areas.

Out of interest, it says on your info that you are a surveyor. Is that better paid dependent on area?

[StarZSoundS]

I wasnt quoting anyone.....just joining in.

[NKR]

So do you not have transport?

My Donkey won't travel that far.

Yep - I have transport, but getting down to Cheshire is an hour trip each way plus the cost of running the 4x4 and trailer down there. Here's the calculcations.

100 mile round trip at 40p per mile (which is the accepted revenue rate of running a car on business) Extra hour travel each way.

If I got £300 for doing a Cheshire or Fylde gig it I would still technically be on the same rate per hour for the actual DJ'ing but getting paid for travelling and getting home much later. That's why I stick to what I have as it works and it allows me to have some extra cash to treat Mrs DJ and my son.

Also I can't get there on Fridays as the day job finishes at 5:30 so restricted on my distances on Fridays.

[NKR]

Out of interest, it says on your info that you are a surveyor. Is that better paid dependent on area?

Yep - If I moved to London / Thames Valley I would add an extra £25k to £30K onto my basic package. Earning potential in the South East is much higher due to the better bonus structures generated by higher rents and investment values.

If I moved to North East I would probably need to take a cut, etc.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I wasnt quoting anyone.....just joining in.

But it didn't make sense?

I'm not sure of the relevance of what you were posting about houses?

[NKR]

But it didn't make sense?

I'm not sure of the relevance of what you were posting about houses?

I think he was probably getting at mean rates of salary for the area as these determine the house prices that can be achieved. If three beds are passing at low rates its an indicator of lower mean salaries. This will translate into the rates people are willing to pay for their DJ as it becomes a higher proportion of disposable income.

I think that might have been the point, but don't hold me to it.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Yep - If I moved to London / Thames Valley I would add an extra £25k to £30K onto my basic package. Earning potential in the South East is much higher due to the better bonus structures generated by higher rents and investment values.

If I moved to North East I would probably need to take a cut, etc.I really think (and it amazes me in this day and age) that people still believe that the roads are paved with gold 'darn sarf'!

I know plenty of surveyors who barely earn than per annum, nevermind that much extra!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Strange if that is true, because there are people round here still charging £150 too and that's all they are willing to pay in their market.

I don't work in that market.

[NKR]

I really think (and it amazes me in this day and age) that people still believe that the roads are paved with gold 'darn sarf'!

I know plenty of surveyors who barely earn than per annum, nevermind "that much more"!

Depends on what they are doing. The surveying market is fairly bad at the moment, but there are still some good opportunities about.

If they aren't breaking those levels (thats basic - plus car, pension, health care, bonus) by 30 then they need some career advice and possible retraining.

Look at me - arguing the same point about income as the full time DJ's are putting to me about my fees.

I appear to have walked straight into your cunning traps. If it wasn't for those pesky kids I would have gotten away with it too.

OH - No Scooby Doo Smilie :eek: :p

[NKR]

Strange if that is true, because there are people round here still charging £150 too and that's all they are willing to pay in their market.

I don't work in that market.

Fair play. I am still working my way out of the last of the £150's but they did a job and paid for the rig to be built from scratch and got us out working again.

Don't get me wrong I am looking for the next level and 2010 is a big push with the new web site.

I will even risk putting it on hear for critique.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Depends on what they are doing. The surveying market is fairly bad at the moment, but there are still some good opportunities about.

If they aren't breaking those levels (thats basic - plus car, pension, health care, bonus) by 30 then they need some career advice and possible retraining.

Look at me - arguing the same point about income as the full time DJ's are putting to me about my fees.

I appear to have walked straight into your cunning traps. If it wasn't for those pesky kids I would have gotten away with it too.

OH - No Scooby Doo Smilie :eek: :p;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[A1DL]

Here is a bit of a clue...

I have just bought a 3 bedroomed end terrace (2 houses in one) house for £57,000 in YORKSHIRE . Bellshill....one of the more respected members on here admits £120 a night aint bad for a regular Friday residency in GLASGOW.NKR is fighting for his right to still stay working at his (in your opinion) ridiculously low rate in LANCASHIRE.



I see that even the definition of "end terrace" is different down here in the Southern streets of gold. Do the mid terraces have 1½ bedrooms and half a coal shed?

This North vs South nonsense seems to crop up every few months. I'm sure there are as many DJs in the South East working for £100 a night as there are "oop norf". It's nothing to do with geography.

[NKR]

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Let me get to the end of next year and see how we are getting on as I am looking to push it a bit more. I can't help it, its in my nature to push things.

I just like a bit of lively debate.

I will no doubt go out and prove myself wrong over the coming years and hopefully still be on here having the reverse argument with someone else. ;)

[Corabar Entertainment]

That' the aim, and there's plenty on her who will attest to it :D

[NKR]

I see that even the definition of "end terrace" is different down here in the Southern streets of gold. Do the mid terraces have 1½ bedrooms and half a coal shed?

This North vs South nonsense seems to crop up every few months. I'm sure there are as many DJs in the South East working for £100 a night as there are "oop norf". It's nothing to do with geography.

Our friend is from yorkshire.

They only have half bedrooms as they can't afford out else - and their dad worked 25 hours a day down pit just to get enough money to by some dog (rear end stuff) to put on table - at which point John Cleese jumps in :D

[NKR]

That' the aim, and there's plenty on her who will attest to it :D

On whom the naughty girl! :D

[Shaun]

and what would of happened if you didn't have a contract

The fickle forgetful client may have asked me to leave instead of the other guy. I'd like to think that she would have choose me regardless, but the hard truth is that the paperwork more than likely made up her mind at that moment.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Im up north - and about as far west as you can get without being scottish (thank god ;) :D ) and before i came on this forum i was going out for approx £150 per night (i earn more than that in the club) since listening to advice, and thinking about my marketing, im now going out for triple that more often than not ;)

[StarZSoundS]

I think he was probably getting at mean rates of salary for the area as these determine the house prices that can be achieved. If three beds are passing at low rates its an indicator of lower mean salaries. This will translate into the rates people are willing to pay for their DJ as it becomes a higher proportion of disposable income.

I think that might have been the point, but don't hold me to it.




YEP!!:beer1:

[rob1963]

This thread has gone even more off topic than Simon when he gave Jamie a rock song to sing on big band week!

Can anyone remember what the OP was about without looking, or how many pages back it first went off topic?

:shrug:

[Mark Wild]

This thread has gone even more off topic than Simon when he gave Jamie a rock song to sing on big band week!

Can anyone remember what the OP was about without looking, or how many pages back it first went off topic?

:shrug:

You're the king of going off topic, you tell us !

[Charlie Brown]

I was thinking the same Rob....I shouldn't of started the bloody thing ;)

[rob1963]

You're the king of going off topic, you tell us !

I'm not sure where that comes from, because a very small percentage of my posts are off topic.

Anyway, it's something we all do at some point...unlike swearing during radio shows!


I was thinking the same Rob....I shouldn't of started the bloody thing ;)

:shrug:

[Mark Wild]

unlike swearing during radio shows!



:shrug:

:lol: :eek: my show was rated 18 Rob and carried an explicit content sign as there was sweary words in some of the tracks too :eek: , so don't be such a drama queen ;) .

[Corabar Entertainment]

On whom the naughty girl! :DOoopps!:eek: :D

[NKR]

Ooopps!:eek: :D

:lol:

[rob1963]

:lol: :eek: my show was rated 18 Rob and carried an explicit content sign as there was sweary words in some of the tracks too :eek: , so don't be such a drama queen ;) .

So much for this forum promoting best practices & professionalism!

Also, I hardly think that saying "unlike swearing in radio shows" counts as being a drama queen!

:shrug:

[Corabar Entertainment]

So much for this forum promoting best practices & professionalism!
HOLD UP THERE for a minute!

If an adult is told before hand that something contains swearing, it is that adults choice whether or not to listen.

It's a vast difference to a disco situation.

Would you also say that all films that contain swearing are unprofessional?

[DJMaxG]

Strange if that is true, because there are people round here still charging £150 too and that's all they are willing to pay in their market.

I don't work in that market.

Here's a thought.

If people in Berkshire refused to pay more than £200 for a Function, would you lower your prices to that, or find a different career?
(just curious)




You're the king of going off topic, you tell us !


I was thinking the same Rob....I shouldn't of started the bloody thing ;)

:rofl: Rob was 'The Voice' at one point :p

[soundtracker]

Here's a thought.

If people in Berkshire refused to pay more than £200 for a Function, would you lower your prices to that, or find a different career?
(just curious)







:rofl: Rob was 'The Voice' at one point :p

If that's the best you can do, perhaps thinking isn't for you - do what the other morons do, and post without thinking!:bang:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Here's a thought.

If people in Berkshire refused to pay more than £200 for a Function, would you lower your prices to that, or find a different career?
(just curious)


Rather a pointless post Max.

[rob1963]

If an adult is told before hand that something contains swearing, it is that adults choice whether or not to listen.


Agreed, but in this case I saw no such warning, which is why I was shocked to hear what I did.

[StarZSoundS]

do what the other morons do, !:bang:


Aimed at anyone in particular!!:eek:

[soundtracker]

Aimed at anyone in particular!!:eek:

obviously aimed at the morons!

[NKR]

obviously aimed at the morons!

Errrr - thats me then. :p
Thats what my wife thinks anyway :D

[Excalibur]

I really think (and it amazes me in this day and age) that people still believe that the roads are paved with gold 'darn sarf'!
I know plenty of surveyors who barely earn than per annum, nevermind that much extra!
They are Angela. Darren posted a picture of the one outside his house once. ;)


Strange if that is true, because there are people round here still charging £150 too and that's all they are willing to pay in their market.

I don't work in that market.
I would, if I could get work as well paid as that. ;) If only. :( :( :( :( :(