My light keep blowing up the mains!

[MagicMusic]

:eek:

I recently bought a couple of new lights and when I try to run both at the same time they blow the sockets in my flat.

It seems that there is to much earth leakage from them as they are tripping the main earth switch (but not the sockets fuses) every time.

Thing is, they work perfectly well when I use them independently.

Can anyone offer any advice on what I should do next???

Cheers,

Charlie.

[OllieJames]

:eek:

I recently bought a couple of new lights and when I try to run both at the same time they blow the sockets in my flat.

It seems that there is to much earth leakage from them as they are tripping the main earth switch (but not the sockets fuses) every time.

Thing is, they work perfectly well when I use them independently.

Can anyone offer any advice on what I should do next???

Cheers,

Charlie.

What lights are they? It may help oother members solve your problems!

[A1DL]

Have they been PATested?
An earth leakage fault would be highlighted by PAT

[MagicMusic]

They are the Chauvet Swarm lights and are brand spanking out the box so not PAT tested yet.

What would the customary procedure be for such problems with goods?

[Dynamic Entertainment]

This may be daft, but have you tried them both in the same double wall socket? If so, swap one to a completely seperate socket and try them both again. the only reason i aski is that my sister had a faulty double wall socket which was blowing the trip when both sockets were switched on.

[MagicMusic]

I've tried umpteen combinatons, different sockets, different rooms but I had to give in cause I dodn't want everything else (t.v fridge) getting switched on and off as harshly as that.

I've tried each light in several different sockets, the same socket, just about everything I can think of - even whith another light.

The problem only arises when both of these are plugged in at the same time regardless of socket or room for that matter!

[gear4djs]

Hi Charlie,

That does sound like there might be a problem with the sockets. I doubt they are using too much power with all those LEDs! If it does look like there might be something wrong with the actual units give us a shout and we will get them replaced as soon as possible.

Cheers, Olly

[MagicMusic]

Hi Charlie,

That does sound like there might be a problem with the sockets. I doubt they are using too much power with all those LEDs! If it does look like there might be something wrong with the actual units give us a shout and we will get them replaced as soon as possible.

Cheers, Olly

Cheers, no probs I just wondered if there is something I could to to fix it. They are smashing lights and I wanna see them working together!

[Dynamic Entertainment]

The only other thing i can suggest is taking the lights to a mates house and putting their electrical appliances through the same ordeal. Atleast that way you will know for sure if its the ring main or the lights.

[gear4djs]

Cheers, no probs I just wondered if there is something I could to to fix it. They are smashing lights and I wanna see them working together!

I'm not sure to be honest! This is the first of anything like this... Unless its something obvious like one of the IEC kettle leads?

[MagicMusic]

The only other thing i can suggest is taking the lights to a mates house and putting their electrical appliances through the same ordeal. Atleast that way you will know for sure if its the ring main or the lights.


Yeah i'm going to try that as soon as I get home :)

I'm not sure to be honest! This is the first of anything like this... Unless its something obvious like one of the IEC kettle leads?

Changing the leads :bang: the one thing i forgot in my haste. I'll give that a bash too.

Thanks for the help folks, i'm off up the road to start again. I'll keep you posted :)

[A1DL]

They are the Chauvet Swarm lights and are brand spanking out the box so not PAT tested yet.

What would the customary procedure be for such problems with goods?


Customary procedure would be to have them PATested before plugging them in and switching them on.

[Booche]

By the sounds of it,it's your actually fuseboard which may not have the right amperage fuse in for sockets and such like there should be a 32amp fuse in the board, sound to me that there might be just a 16 int he board if its tripping out etc

Let me know and ill have a think what else as my partners dad is a electrician who has taught me a hell of alot ;)

Cheers Dave :)

[A1DL]

By the sounds of it,it's your actually fuseboard which may not have the right amperage fuse in for sockets and such like there should be a 32amp fuse in the board, sound to me that there might be just a 16 int he board if its tripping out etc

With respect, that's a load of nonsense.
The OP is powering a couple of LED effects with circa 20w draw...do the maths.



Let me know and ill have a think what else as my partners dad is a electrician who has taught me a hell of alot ;)


Please don't, Dave. Electrical advice on the internet from people whom don't know what they're talking about is dangerous and can kill. Half knowledge is twenty times worse than ignorance, as some fool, somewhere, may act on it.

[Booche]

I know what you mean A1 i was purely trying to help and if the fuse isnt the correct amperage it will blow trust me ive been there lol

P.S. By all means i didnt mean do it yourself if there is an electrical fault get in touch with a qualified electrician :)

Cheers Dave :)

[MagicMusic]

Well, changed the leads and all is well. :)

As a matter of interest, during a P.A.T, will the tester open the unit / remove screws if required?

[DJ Jules]

First things first, is it tripping a MCB (Micro Circuit Breaker) or an RCD (Residual Current dodah ;) ).

If it's tripping an MCB then you've got dodgy wiring or a dodgy MCB because there's no way that a Swarm could draw enough power to trip an MCB without melting it's own fuse first.

If it's tripping the RCD then you've got an earth leakage problem. This could be because you've got other dodgy devices in the house which are keeping the trip on the edge, but you'd probably have noticed this before as almost anything you'd have plugged in would have tripped it out. This means that it's likely that the Swarm's either use a power supply which leaks a lot of current to earth (i.e. a badly designed switch mode power supply), or there's a fault in the units which is allowing voltage to leak to earth. As the guys here have said, putting the lights through a proper PAT test will tell you whats going on, as you'll get a measure of the leakage current to earth which will tell you how serious the problem is. If the current is small then it's probably bad design, if it's high, then it's probably got a loose wire somewhere. Either way you should probably discontinue use until you've got it worked out in case something is rattling around loose and turns the chassis into a potentially lethal electrode, or self destructs. I've seen quite a few units come out of China lately where one or more of the boards haven't been properly mounted (QuadZilla's spring to mind where only 2 out of the 20 units shipped were actually complete) which is pretty dangerous.

Julian

[DJ Jules]

I know what you mean A1 i was purely trying to help and if the fuse isnt the correct amperage it will blow trust me ive been there lol

P.S. By all means i didnt mean do it yourself if there is an electrical fault get in touch with a qualified electrician :)

Cheers Dave :)

Not on a :Censored: ring main it shouldn't! Not with a 20w light fitting!!!

Julian

[DJ Jules]

Well, changed the leads and all is well. :)

I'd bin that lead!


As a matter of interest, during a P.A.T, will the tester open the unit / remove screws if required?

Nope. They're not allowed to in case they introduce faults. Inspection is always purely visual, except for access to check fuse ratings (or change them if appropriate).

Julian

[Booche]

Not on a :Censored: ring main it shouldn't! Not with a 20w light fitting!!!

Julian

:youdaman: Can totally see the help there :bang: :Censored:

[MagicMusic]

:thanks:

[MagicMusic]

I take it the leads that were supplied just weren't up to the job then?

[A1DL]

As a matter of interest, during a P.A.T, will the tester open the unit / remove screws if required?


Certainly - I will open a unit if it fails the earth bond test, as it is possible the unit is not efficiently bonded and that is something I can often rectify and re-test, rather than just slapping a "FAIL" label on an appliance.

[MagicMusic]

I wanted to know because opening the unit would undoubtedly render it void from any warranty or guarantee so I wanted to be sure for future reference, thanks.

[DJ Jules]

Certainly - I will open a unit if it fails the earth bond test, as it is possible the unit is not efficiently bonded and that is something I can often rectify and re-test, rather than just slapping a "FAIL" label on an appliance.

My understanding, from the training I've had is that you do not open a unit, or even re-wire a plug in your role as a PAT tester, because it instantly stops you from being a pure tester, to being an electrician which means you're taking responsibility for any repairs you effect (i.e. if the earth bond you fixed, failed in service and someone was electrocuted as a result - then you'd be liable for it, whereas as a tester, you're just verifying the condition of the equipment at the time of test, which carries far less ambiguity). If you are an electrician as well, then obviously that's fine, but you're doing it as an electrician (or electronic engineer in the case of most DJ equipment) and not as a tester.


I wanted to know because opening the unit would undoubtedly render it void from any warranty or guarantee so I wanted to be sure for future reference, thanks.

And that's the other reason you wouldn't do it as a tester. It potentially messes with the warranty of the product, and if you screw up an electronic product even further through your actions, then you're also liable for the damage, and the manufacturer would also be within their rights to speculate that you may have caused the original problem.

I apologise for my blunt post earlier in this thread, but as someone has already stated - a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing - and it frustrates me to see people making statements about ring main fuses being "easy to trip" when they should in theory be VERY hard to trip out. They're usually rated at 30amp, so if you have a dodgy appliance it'd be much more likely to burn out the fuse in the appliance itself (if fitted - typically < 1amp in the case of a LED fixture) or in the plug (between 3a and 13a depending on the cable rating) before you tripped out the main ring main fuse itself. And if you don't know the difference between the fuse on the ring main, and the RCD(s) for the supply, then you've absolutely no business making any comment at all.

Julian

[A1DL]

My understanding, from the training I've had is that you do not open a unit, or even re-wire a plug in your role as a PAT tester, because it instantly stops you from being a pure tester, to being an electrician which means you're taking responsibility for any repairs you effect (i.e. if the earth bond you fixed, failed in service and someone was electrocuted as a result - then you'd be liable for it, whereas as a tester, you're just verifying the condition of the equipment at the time of test, which carries far less ambiguity). If you are an electrician as well, then obviously that's fine, but you're doing it as an electrician (or electronic engineer in the case of most DJ equipment) and not as a tester.

So Julian, when you carry out the visual inspection of an appliance or lead, prior to any electrical tests, if for example the common issue of the inner sheath having become exposed due to a loose cord grip, you would fail said appliance/lead as a visual inspection fail, as opposed to rectifying, testing & passing (assuming the electrical test results were good)? :confused:

[Excalibur]

So Julian, when you carry out the visual inspection of an appliance or lead, prior to any electrical tests, if for example the common issue of the inner sheath having become exposed due to a loose cord grip, you would fail said appliance/lead as a visual inspection fail, as opposed to rectifying, testing & passing (assuming the electrical test results were good)? :confused:

Devil's advocate here. My brother's an MOT tester, and if a vehicle comes in with no water in the windscreen washers, or a mobile phone mount on the windscreen, it fails. Them's the rules. ;)

[DJ Jules]

So Julian, when you carry out the visual inspection of an appliance or lead, prior to any electrical tests, if for example the common issue of the inner sheath having become exposed due to a loose cord grip, you would fail said appliance/lead as a visual inspection fail, as opposed to rectifying, testing & passing (assuming the electrical test results were good)? :confused:

In my role as a tester, I would fail it. I would then put on my electricians hat, and fix the problem, and then switch back to being a tester, and re-test. To use the MOT tester analogy, if a car has dodgy wipers, or the indicator lamp has blown, then the car will fail it's MOT. If the MOT test station is also a garage, then the car would go through the garage's books, be fixed, and then put in for re-test and passed. There's one major reason that the MOT testing scheme is set up this way (to try and prevent testers from also being repairers), and that is to stop testers from certifying their own work - as you never check your own work as diligently as you'll check someone elses ;) The sample principle is supposed to be applied in the PAT world, which is why when I was taught the course on PAT, the rule was that the only time you took anything apart, was to check the fuse. If the cable was dodgy, then someone else (customer, other trained electrician, etc) repaired it, and you verified the quality of the repair.

The point is that if you fix an item, you're no longer "just testing", you're doing work on it, making you liable for the quality of the repair or re-wire, or whatever you do, and any effect that this might have on the appliance (or any damage caused by your actions), so if you're fixing and testing (and I acknowledge that the majority of people do both test and fix), you'd better be very sure about the quality of your repair because you're not only making it, you're certifying it too.

Julian

[A1DL]

In my role as a tester, I would fail it. I would then put on my electricians hat, and fix the problem, and then switch back to being a tester, and re-test.

So any responsibility or liability still remains with you, as an individual. :cool:

[DJ Jules]

So any responsibility or liability still remains with you, as an individual. :cool:

Yes, but in an ideal world, I wouldn't be the person who does the fix and the test, but in reality, this is how small repairs get performed most of the time because most electricians don't go out to PAT test in pairs.

Julian

[discomobiledj]

Yes, but in an ideal world, I wouldn't be the person who does the fix and the test, but in reality, this is how small repairs get performed most of the time because most electricians don't go out to PAT test in pairs.

Julian

What a load of rubbish! IF you're a qualified electrician why would you not fix the equipment?