Passive 15" sub

[wigglyrich01]

Hi guys,

Looking to buy decent passive sub to give some good solid bass to my system. Space is limited in the car so i'm edging towards a 15". I'll be driving it with a numark dimension 4 amp which gives 1300 watts at 8 ohms bridged which should be plenty of power for the one sub. At the moment i'm just looking to buy one, so i need something fairly powerful. My current top cabs are the Mackie c300's.

So far i've been looking at the Kam vortex 15b sub whch looks very impressive:

http://www.prosound-dj.com/vortex-passive-p-2733.html

and also the db technologies arena sw 15:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/db_technologies_arena_sw15.htm

What do you guys think of these?? any other suggestions would be really useful. Budget is around £350.

cheers! :D :D :D :beer1:

[A1DL]

So far i've been looking at the Kam vortex 15b sub whch looks very impressive:

http://www.prosound-dj.com/vortex-passive-p-2733.html




What exactly looks impressive about that cab? :confused:
They conveniently omit to quote how loud it goes (just a minor detail, hey)

Oh yeah... just spotted it - "speakeron connector" - thats impressive, I wonder what one of them looks like when it's at home? :cool:

[wigglyrich01]

What exactly looks impressive about that cab?

Yeah ok maby i got a bit carried away with those because ellaskins was raving about them and i thought they looked quite good. I agree the lack of spl ratings is a bit concerning. All kam say is that the vortex series delivers quality sound for professional applications up to 103dB sensitivity at 1w/1m :confused:

what about the db tech then? 130db max sounds pretty good.
Any other suggestions? :D

[Tom]

Out of the 2 you have linked to, I would go for the DB Tech one as the reflex design will give a much nicer sound than a bandpass type cab which is what the KAM Vortex is.

[Excalibur]

Needs a bit of thinking about, as in my very humble opinion that amp's a bit on the big side for one 8ohm cab. ( Unless the cab was rated nearer 800-900w RMS Absolute minimum 650w anyway. ). Dropping another 8 ohm onto it and running non bridged may not be a better option. Tricky.

[wigglyrich01]

Out of the 2 you have linked to, I would go for the DB Tech one as the reflex design will give a
much nicer sound than a bandpass type cab which is what the KAM Vortex is.

Cheers Tom, just out of interest how come the reflex design is superior??


Needs a bit of thinking about, as in my very humble opinion that amp's a bit on the big side for one 8ohm cab. ( Unless the cab was rated nearer 800-900w RMS Absolute minimum 650w anyway. ). Dropping another 8 ohm onto it and running non bridged may not be a better option. Tricky.

Yeah your completely right. The dilemma is I can either run the sub through one channel of the amp at 400 watts (8ohm) or have the amp in bridge mode and run the sub at 1300 watts (8ohm).
I thought i'd just have to be very careful and run the amp in bridge mode to get the full potential out of the sub.

What if i had the vol on the amp set at 3/4. Would that help?

[Excalibur]

Yeah your completely right. The dilemma is I can either run the sub through one channel of the amp at 400 watts (8ohm) or have the amp in bridge mode and run the sub at 1300 watts (8ohm).
I thought i'd just have to be very careful and run the amp in bridge mode to get the full potential out of the sub.

What if i had the vol on the amp set at 3/4. Would that help?

Short answer, NO!. Long answer, volume control on amps isn't a volume control, it's a gain control. You cab still get full rated output from an amp that's only turned up halfway, and it can actually be worse for the cabs.

Still thinking, will post any good ideas.

[Excalibur]

No experience of this cab, but the figures suit your needs. Best I can come up with.

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR314514

Not quite so close, but also suitable.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/peavey_ul_118s_sub_messenger_serie.htm

[wigglyrich01]

No experience of this cab, but the figures suit your needs. Best I can come up with.

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR314514

Not quite so close, but also suitable.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/peavey_ul_118s_sub_messenger_serie.htm

Thankyou very much for the help mate. Its been very useful!

I've found a wharfedale sub that looks perfect for the amp, that i can just about afford. Though it is a bit on the chunky side.

http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Home/Products/PASSIVELOUDSPEAKERS/DLXSERIES/DLX18B/tabid/103/Default.aspx

Would one of these be a good sub?

[Excalibur]

Thankyou very much for the help mate. Its been very useful!

I've found a wharfedale sub that looks perfect for the amp, that i can just about afford. Though it is a bit on the chunky side.

http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Home/Products/PASSIVELOUDSPEAKERS/DLXSERIES/DLX18B/tabid/103/Default.aspx

Would one of these be a good sub?

Mnay folk rate Wharfedale, as far as I can see it's same specs as the P****y ( got to use asterisks, in case Tony A1 sees a reference to them. :D :D ) You pays your money..........:D :D

[A1DL]

http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Home/Products/PASSIVELOUDSPEAKERS/DLXSERIES/DLX18B/tabid/103/Default.aspx

Would one of these be a good sub?

Just bear in mind the 134dB "peak" SPL quoted is rather meaningless. The continuous SPL is what matters and this will be around 127dB for that box.

The db technologies range seem to be among the best budget subs with a decent SPL, quite a few members on here rate them.

[wigglyrich01]

Just bear in mind the 134dB "peak" SPL quoted is rather meaningless. The continuous SPL is what matters and this will be around 127dB for that box.

The db technologies range seem to be among the best budget subs with a decent SPL, quite a few members on here rate them.

Thanks for the info. So you would recommend the db technologies over the wharfedale?

Is the 130db max quoted for the db technologies arena sw15 also rather meaningless? are peak and max the same (sorry for the ignorance :Embarassed:)

thanks:D

[A1DL]

?

Is the 130db max quoted for the db technologies arena sw15 also rather meaningless?

Possibly, but certainly not as meaningless as the Wharfedale.
If you cannot physically measure the SPL with a meter, the calculated SPL should use the RMS figure. In the case of the Wharfedale, taking 99dB at 1w/1m, the 134dB quoted is based on the box being given 3,200w of amplifier power (four times the RMS), which it may sustain for ~10ms.

In the case of the db technologies box, the sensitivity @ 1w/1m is not quoted, however the peak 130dB/1m quoted is probably going to be based on the 1,000w peak power handiling, just twice the RMS rating. So the continuous SPL is going to be no less than 127dB... at least it is not grossly exagerrated.


are peak and max the same?)


Max/Peak power handling figures are good for the marketing dept to sell boxes to the uneducated. The figures you want to concentrate on are the RMS/AES ratings - these will be the lowest numbers. If a speaker can handle x thousand watts of power for a tenth or a hundredth of a second, so what? Always take the RMS/AES figure and power the box with an amplifier that can deliver between 1.5 and 2.0 times that figure.

[wigglyrich01]

Thaks AD1L, thats cleared things up alot :) :beer1:

The only problem now is that my amp can deliver 1300 watts bridged to the cab which as excalibur said is a bit too much, or 412 watts at 8ohms from one channel which isnt enough.

Thats why i was considering the wharfedale with the higher power handling. Maby the arena sw18 is the way to go.

[A1DL]

Thaks AD1L, thats cleared things up alot :) :beer1:

The only problem now is that my amp can deliver 1300 watts bridged to the cab which as excalibur said is a bit too much, or 412 watts at 8ohms from one channel which isnt enough.

Thats why i was considering the wharfedale with the higher power handling. Maby the arena sw18 is the way to go.

Just looked at the specs for both - the 18" box is only 2dB louder (barely audible) and 10kg heavier than the 15" - if you think thats's worthwhile to play 5hz lower then fair play. I'm not convinced.

I wouldn't worry about an amp being too big for the job - it's the other way around that will cause you problems! I've many a time run a single Control 5 in the back of the van off a spare channel of VZ. If you have an LMS, the trim the output stage back a few dB just to be safe.

[COOL HAND LUKE]

Hi guys,

Looking to buy decent passive sub to give some good solid bass to my system. Space is limited in the car so i'm edging towards a 15". I'll be driving it with a numark dimension 4 amp which gives 1300 watts at 8 ohms bridged which should be plenty of power for the one sub. At the moment i'm just looking to buy one, so i need something fairly powerful. My current top cabs are the Mackie c300's.

So far i've been looking at the Kam vortex 15b sub whch looks very impressive:

http://www.prosound-dj.com/vortex-passive-p-2733.html

and also the db technologies arena sw 15:


http://www.thomann.de/gb/db_technologies_arena_sw15.htm

What do you guys think of these?? any other suggestions would be really useful. Budget is around £350.

cheers! :D :D :D :beer1:

Dont forget to compare the weights as well, these are heavy passive speakers. some actives weigh less than these :)

[wigglyrich01]

Just looked at the specs for both - the 18" box is only 2dB louder (barely audible) and 10kg heavier than the 15" - if you think thats's worthwhile to play 5hz lower then fair play. I'm not convinced.

I wouldn't worry about an amp being too big for the job - it's the other way around that will cause you problems! I've many a time run a single Control 5 in the back of the van off a spare channel of VZ. If you have an LMS, the trim the output stage back a few dB just to be safe.

Ah thats good news as the sw18 looks a little too big and heavey. My current thinking is to get one sub now and then add another if needs be.
I assume the one 15" should give me ample bass to keep up with my two 12" tops.
Thanks again for the help

[A1DL]

I assume the one 15" should give me ample bass to keep up with my two 12" tops.


how loud are they? generally, mid tops tend to be more efficient than subs which is why you see a greater ratio of LF to HF boxes. you don't want to rip peoples' faces off with your tops.

also, the style of music being played is a useful indication in deciding what ratio of subs to mid/tops to take out.

[wigglyrich01]

how loud are they? generally, mid tops tend to be more efficient than subs which is why you see a greater ratio of LF to HF boxes. you don't want to rip peoples' faces off with your tops.

also, the style of music being played is a useful indication in deciding what ratio of subs to mid/tops to take out.

The tops are mackie c300's, 300watts each 126 db max. I've been booked for quite a few of 18ths recently hence why i'm looking for some extra bass.

The music for those will be mainly Hip Hop R&B stuff, dance and chart hits.

[A1DL]

The tops are mackie c300's, 300watts each 126 db max. I've been booked for quite a few of 18ths recently hence why i'm looking for some extra bass.

The music for those will be mainly Hip Hop R&B stuff, dance and chart hits.


Assuming the 126dB figure is based on the RMS power handling, then that's a very similar match to the subs you're looking at. One sub underneath each Mackie will give a good even sound for most genres, however I guarantee if you try a pair under each mid/top, you won't look back when it comes to playing dance music.

[wigglyrich01]

Assuming the 126dB figure is based on the RMS power handling, then that's a very similar match to the subs you're looking at. One sub underneath each Mackie will give a good even sound for most genres, however I guarantee if you try a pair under each mid/top, you won't look back when it comes to playing dance music.

Ah, so one on its own wouldn't hack it?

would one 18" manage on its own? I'm a bit short on space in the car, and funds at the moment. I am planning on getting a second sub asap though

[Excalibur]

The tops are mackie c300's, 300watts each 126 db max. I've been booked for quite a few of 18ths recently hence why i'm looking for some extra bass.

The music for those will be mainly Hip Hop R&B stuff, dance and chart hits.
Ah, well why didn't you say so? :confused: :D :D Whole new ballgame. Two of these at least. I've heard them. :approve:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-e-218.html
Two of these on mids
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-m-15_professional-concert-bass-bin.html
Sorted. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Assuming the 126dB figure is based on the RMS power handling, then that's a very similar match to the subs you're looking at. One sub underneath each Mackie will give a good even sound for most genres, however I guarantee if you try a pair under each mid/top, you won't look back when it comes to playing dance music.

Tony, I've got to have a word in your shell like. ;) Life must be very simple in your little world I reckon. Over here in the real world, we sometimes have to make compromises. Like buying Legendary Prosound, when we really fancied Void. :( :( :( :( :(

[wigglyrich01]

[QUOTE=Excalibur;398728]Ah, well why didn't you say so? :confused: :D :D Whole new ballgame. Two of these at least. I've heard them. :approve:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-e-218.html
Two of these on mids
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-m-15_professional-concert-bass-bin.html
Sorted. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Wow! 105 kilos per cab
how do they sound??? :D :D :D

[Excalibur]

[QUOTE=Excalibur;398728]Ah, well why didn't you say so? :confused: :D :D Whole new ballgame. Two of these at least. I've heard them. :approve:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-e-218.html
Two of these on mids
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-m-15_professional-concert-bass-bin.html
Sorted. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Wow! 105 kilos per cab
how do they sound??? :D :D :D

Well let's put it this way. They make my hair wave in the breeze. ;) :D :D :D

[A1DL]

[quote=Excalibur;398728]Ah, well why didn't you say so? :confused: :D :D Whole new ballgame. Two of these at least. I've heard them. :approve:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-e-218.html
Two of these on mids
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/pro-audio-m-15_professional-concert-bass-bin.html
Sorted. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Wow! 105 kilos per cab
how do they sound??? :D :D :D

105kg is a lot of weight for 133dB of sub :mad:
The specs say they're ideal for live touring - I wonder if they come with a front board? (I can't see from the pic how you'd attach it)

These reflex boxes would need to be delayed to use with the 15" mids, so don't forget to budget for an LMS :)

[A1DL]

Tony, I've got to have a word in your shell like. ;) Life must be very simple in your little world I reckon.

You've got it buddy, I'm a simple kind of guy.... I can't cope with complicated stuff - leave all that for the youngsters.com :)

[Excalibur]

[quote=wigglyrich01;398732]

105kg is a lot of weight for 133dB of sub :mad:
The specs say they're ideal for live touring - I wonder if they come with a front board? (I can't see from the pic how you'd attach it)

These reflex boxes would need to be delayed to use with the 15" mids, so don't forget to budget for an LMS :)

Now where's that smiley to show I'm not being totally, utterly and entirely serious? :confused: :D :D :D :D

Tony, I know there's better available. No argument. Google facetious, and you'll get an idea where I'm coming from. ;) :D :D