Speakers design

[DJ INDIE]

I am trying to find a thread (i hope i didnt imagine it!) i saw a long time ago about designing and building your own speakers.

I fancy the idea of designing, making and the whole cabs - joinery, wiring, carpetting etc thinking around full range 12" or 15", and this thread could come in useful and I could trust the threads, rather than from some unknown site.


Ive tried searching for a while, but as soon as i put 'speaker' alongside 'design' etc it brings up a lot of threads.

if anyone can point me in the right direction, or has any input, that would be great.


ta

[Penfold42]

http://speakerplans.com/

[Daryll]

+1 for speaker plans

but for a non conventional approach that will blow your socks off .

http://www.billfitzmaurice.info/


Daryll

[A1DL]

The guys on SP will point you in the right direction, Andy. What is becoming increasingly popular is homebrew subs with branded mid highs. Subs are easier to build too. A couple of things to bear in mind though; blood, sweat & tears aside, you may spend as much if not more money on building a cab than you'd pay for a secondhand branded box in good condition. Also, homebrew cabs aren't rider friendly and their resale value is disappointingly low. All that aside, if you've got the passion, go for it buddy,

[Tom]

You may want to get hold of a copy of WINISD which is free. The software comes with a lot of drivers already preinstalled on the software.

As Tony and Tony have both said, speakerplans is the way to go.

I was going to build some but gave up in the end due to not being able to get time to finish them. Never mind. If you want to build some 12" subs just let me know as I got some for sale. lol. Still brand new.

2x 12" subs that have a smaller footprint than a Mackie 15" sub and has around the same output and will go deeper. :D


I know a guy who is going to the next SEDA meet who has built a dual 12" sub cab (same as what I was going to do) who will be demoing it as well as some other homebrew cabs I believe with a friend from SP.

Expect silly SPL. I'm so there. :D

[DJ INDIE]

cheers fellas,

I'm always upto ideas to keep myself busy, - some with REALLY rubbish results :) and some good ones, but now ive got to be sensible (first time for everything :) ) and stop spending on gear - so I think designing and building my own would be something I'd enjoy (probably until I hear them !) It also lets me spread costs etc as I can do it slower and bit by bit.

As a bass player this could be beneficial to both DJing and band gigging.


I'd like to keep everything small and compact, but now im thinking rather than a 15" top, maybe smaller tops and small subs (you will put ideas in my head!!) and I could make some subs first to test the water.



cheers all, I'll check that program and website now. ta

[Tom]

You could always go for a dual 8" top. You could always get one driver that is a coax or you can just fit a horn and CD instead. Lots of ideas. :)

[DJ INDIE]

Tom, youre a mind reader - thats exactly what im thinking!

the branded tops I have and use now are x2 8" and are crystal clear - plus narrow and light.

I could match them with say, x2 10" subs for a slimline light full system.



I'll dig out my bass magazines too - I currently use an Ashdown 4x10 for bass playing (brilliantly designed to be 1 inch wider than every door frame - or so it seems!), but Im sure theres lots of 2x10 bass cabs out there - so i'll see if there are any ideas I can come up with.

[Tom]

Will you be using these cabs for DJ use because I feel the 10" drivers won't go as low but I could be wrong.

If anything 12" and bigger. Even with a 12" drive like the BMS 12S330 for example, you are only getting around 89db 1w@1m with a max SPL of around 120db. Add another driver next to it and your getting around 125db SPL which is not bad at all for a small 12" driver. lol.


All depends on how low you want to go and how loud. If anything, go as low as 40hz which is more than enough for most music unless you play a lot of dubstep or drum and bass for example then maybe you could go a little lower.

[DJ INDIE]

having looked and been given a few pointers, the tops I can do as x2 8" with a 1" horn. reflex cab.

the bins I may have to concede and make as 15s with a LF driver (but with a small box) whether I have a reflex cab or a folded design im not sure yet.


its interesting (and confusing!) stuff.

[A1DL]

having looked and been given a few pointers, the tops I can do as x2 8" with a 1" horn. reflex cab.

the bins I may have to concede and make as 15s with a LF driver (but with a small box) whether I have a reflex cab or a folded design im not sure yet.


Remember if you use horn/s on LF that you'll need to delay your reflex tops to them. Not a problem if you already use an LMS, but a cost to factor in, if you don't currently.

[DJ INDIE]

would this be eradicated if i used a normal 15" driver Tony? ie, is it the LF causing the need to do this, or the folded horn design of the sub?

im trying to keep it as simple as possible - would it be simpler to build 1 cab (horn, 8" and 15") with a 3 way crossover? or do the same problems exist?

[A1DL]

would this be eradicated if i used a normal 15" driver Tony? ie, is it the LF causing the need to do this, or the folded horn design of the sub?

im trying to keep it as simple as possible - would it be simpler to build 1 cab (horn, 8" and 15") with a 3 way crossover? or do the same problems exist?


In simplest terms - if your LF box is a horn, as opposed to a reflex (direct radiating) box, the sound takes longer to reach the point of measurement (that generally being immediately in front of the boxes). Therefore you delay the reflex mid/highs to ensure all frequencies reach the point of measurement at the same time.

If all your boxes are horns, you delay as required to ensure all frequencies reach the front of the box at the same time.

If your LF is also reflex, in a simple setup you would not need to use delay.

[Happy Jack]

would this be eradicated if i used a normal 15" driver Tony? ie, is it the LF causing the need to do this, or the folded horn design of the sub?

im trying to keep it as simple as possible - would it be simpler to build 1 cab (horn, 8" and 15") with a 3 way crossover? or do the same problems exist?

I was going to make some suggestions, and fire over a few links, if this is something you'd really like to pursue. However, and not wanting to sound patronising, if you are struggling to grasp the concepts of time alignment, delay and driver placement, then it's apparent you need to do your homework first.

Keeping it simple? I'd follow the X15 plan to the letter. All components are off the shelf, although the PAP VX1 is no longer manufactured so you'd have to source - or build - an alternative 2 way that crosses @ about 1.5khz depending on the comp. A typical two-way 4th order L-R xover at your chosen frequency isn't too hard to make up. But then you might consider insertion loss because of inductor DCR, or perhaps opt. for 2nd order L-R with L Pad. If you mismatch drivers, you'd wanna think about sensitivity, and driver impedance, perhaps adding a zobel circuit after the xover in this instance...

There are those much more learned on this subject than even Tony, over on SP, although his remarks about an LMS are bang on.

[Daryll]

Another point ( sorry if all you guys know this) a horn design is more efficient than a reflex cab , so in theory you don't need as much "power" to obtain perceived volume , however there is a down side , if you drive a reflex cab to destruction , there are warning signs , mostly distortion , followed by a burning smell ( thats to late for the driver :( ) , in a horn loaded cab , you`ll not get the distortion , it will work as normal up to a point , and then it will die , all very quickly :eek: .
Another way to get rid of the delay , is to have have horn loaded tops as well.

I have heard some of the subs from Speaker plans , and TBH , they will stomp over anything 3 times the price , if you follow the plans to the letter :D


Daryll

[DJ INDIE]

In simplest terms - if your LF box is a horn, as opposed to a reflex (direct radiating) box, the sound takes longer to reach the point of measurement (that generally being immediately in front of the boxes). Therefore you delay the reflex mid/highs to ensure all frequencies reach the point of measurement at the same time.

If all your boxes are horns, you delay as required to ensure all frequencies reach the front of the box at the same time.

If your LF is also reflex, in a simple setup you would not need to use delay.

cheers Tony, i'll keep them the same for my first one. thanks for clarifying.

No problem Happy Jack, youre right, i need to get my head around the basics and do a lot more reading, but i'll get there in the end.

I think making one of those plans to the letter may be a good way to go.

[Tom]

There can be some issues with using horn loaded cabs instead of using a standard reflex.

Guys on the SP forum will usually ask how many people you will play too and what kind of music. For most disco use, they will always reocmmened reflex over horn loaded and I agree.


There are also some problems with using horn loaded cabs inside rooms or building.

Horn loaded cabs shall we say....have a more direct beam of sound due to the design of the cab. With a more direct beam of sound, they will sound pants up close but at a distance, will sound much better. If most of your gigs are in rooms that hold under 200 people, then I feel reflex is the way to go. If you do a lot of gigs in large venues and by that, I do mean large, then maybe look at horn loaded but as you know, horn loaded cabs will be a lot bigger and will weigh a lot more.

If you want more spl than a reflex but don't want the size of a horn loaded cab, you could always looked at a design called Tapped Horn.

These are quite hard to design (well I think anyway) but there are quite a few free plans on the net already, so there is another idea for you to look at. :)

There are also other plans like Bandpass Horn for example. Basically, one side of the driver (usually the front) is loaded in to a horn and the rear is in a ported chamber. You get the output from the horn and you also get the extended bass from the port. I believe there are a few plans for these also, but again, these are usually quite large cabs. Great if you have a van but if you work form a car then maybe not so. lol.

[DJ INDIE]

its going to be a reflex system all the way i think.

I might even look at making a cheapish full range 15" cab first to hone my skills a bit.

I only need these for under 100-150 people, the idea being to build something smaller for the smaller gigs.


Its interesting stuff though - confusing at times but taking it a bit at a time and it seems to be sinking in, cheers