Help

[markdj60]

Can anyone help me out? Ive tryed 3 different amps and each one clips i got a w-audio da-1300 amp now and kam 1504 mk2 speakers so i no the amp has plenty of power to run my speakers but it still clips could it be the leads i am using or is it my mixer or graphic that has low power,please can someone out there guid me in the right direction thanks.

[Penfold42]

Quick question - dummy one.......wheres your output dial set?

[NKR]

If you are clipping sounds like a gain issue. What is the mixer showing on the db graphic. Should not be above 0db. If it is - reduce the gain.

[markdj60]

i have the 2 channels on the amp fully up and the mixer nearly half way up it never goes into the red on the mixer.

[nisfo]

I presume you are using unbalanced inputs?

What voltage do you have the sensitivety set at?

What mixer are you using? and what cables from mixer to amp.

[markdj60]

I presume you are using unbalanced inputs?

What voltage do you have the sensitivety set at?

What mixer are you using? and what cables from mixer to amp.

i have the sensitivity set in the middle at 1.0,im using a kam kap1000 and a berhinger fbq1502 so im coming out the mixer with phono and into the graphic with jack then from the graphic using jack into the amp using jack.

[nisfo]

Have you used graphic before? Try setup without it.

Then ditch Jacks and use balanced XLR cables being minimum length.

[DJ Jules]

When the clip lights show - how loud is the output? Is it that the lights are showing, but the rig still isn't very loud, or are they showing with no audible output at all?

Julian

[TonyB]

Without seeing the set up, it is difficult to diagnose as there are numerous factors that could be causing it.

Firstly though, whats your hearing like? Have you got "DJ" ear :)

Our ears desensitise to loud noise so if you start at the loudest it will go, our hearing will get used to it and it will sound quieter hence why we often end up increasing the volume as the night goes on. Remember it will also sound quieter behind the speakers than in front.

What type of venue was it? Was it a large one with lots of people and soft furnishings (carpets, curtains etc) or does it happen at different types of venues?

Running the amp at full gain is not the most effective way to use it. Have a read of http://www.thenoizeworks.co.uk/tech2.html especially 2.c.

As you say it has happened with other amplifiers, I would rule out the amp being a problem, but it may be a contributory factory. The speakers are not the most efficient, the only figures I could find are that they have a sensitivity of 90db which isn't very good. I have used Warrior DA amps before and in my experience they struggle a bit on the bottom end (bass) which is what needs the most power and creates a big proportion of the volume.

How do you have the GEQ set? If you are increasing the low frequencies again you will need more power and it is more likely to cause clipping. Although the speakers are 15", I would suspect that they would need a bit of boost at the bottom end.

I fear that no matter what you do in terms of changing cable and setting up a proper gain structure, the set up will still not be loud enough for the type of functions you are expecting it to cope with. What would probably help is to get some bass bins either powered or passive with a separate amp.

[ppentertainments]

there is a faulty batch of the warrior amps on the loose at the moment. i would get your supplier to contact prolight to check. the faulty ones are not as deep as good ones.

[markdj60]

When the clip lights show - how loud is the output? Is it that the lights are showing, but the rig still isn't very loud, or are they showing with no audible output at all?

Julian

yeah it seems like the it should have more volume than its got, with a more powerful amp i assumed i would need to turn the master on the mixer down a bit.

[Excalibur]

Tony is as usual not far off the mark at all. If you can get a crossover and bins, try that, with a second amp. The difference may be surprising. In the old days, I often found that having two pairs of cabs in parallel appeared to give more leeway before the traffic lights came on. Don't suppose you've got a second pair of Kams to try, have you? :D :D


yeah it seems like the it should have more volume than its got, with a more powerful amp i assumed i would need to turn the master on the mixer down a bit.
Unless your previous amps were tiny, increasing the size of your amp may appear to have almost no effect on volume. Sory, but that's just the way it is.

Thinks: Borrow another mixer first. ;) I had a KAM 1500 and the tone controls went loopy. Check by substitution. Swapping for a Denon was a revelation.

[DJ Jules]

Right - I was sceptical about what was going on here until last night.

My main rig is a pair of JBL JRX115's and a pair of JBL JRX118S, run from 2 x W-Audio 1300 amps and an Thomann active crossover. It's been absolutely fine so far (the whole lot is about 6 months old), but last night the left hand channel on the amp driving the tops started showing a clip light when ANY signal was fed through it, and the channel immediately shut down. Like you, I had the amps configured in Stereo, 1v sensitivity. Swapping left/right cables into the amp made no difference (the clip still showed on the left channel) ruling out a DC voltage coming out of the crossover, so the problem was definitely with the amp. The solution last night, change the sensitivity on the amp driving the tops to 1.4v and turn down the gain on the amp driving the bins to compensate. Hey Presto! No more clip light.

There's something fundamentally wrong here, so I will be taking the amp back to the supplier on Monday for them to check it over. It has to be a faulty amp (but mine is one of the deeper ones).

I might be persuaded to go down the active route yet... though having said that, the worst case scenario last night was that I drove just the tops straight from my mixer and dumped the bins, second amp and active crossover out of the set up (or possibly ran just one bin alongside the tops full range), whereas if I'd had actives I'd have been stuffed.

Julian

[markdj60]

thanks for the feedback everyone

[Excalibur]

Right - I was sceptical about what was going on here until last night.

My main rig is a pair of JBL JRX115's and a pair of JBL JRX118S, run from 2 x W-Audio 1300 amps and an Thomann active crossover. It's been absolutely fine so far (the whole lot is about 6 months old), but last night the left hand channel on the amp driving the tops started showing a clip light when ANY signal was fed through it, and the channel immediately shut down. Like you, I had the amps configured in Stereo, 1v sensitivity. Swapping left/right cables into the amp made no difference (the clip still showed on the left channel) ruling out a DC voltage coming out of the crossover, so the problem was definitely with the amp. The solution last night, change the sensitivity on the amp driving the tops to 1.4v and turn down the gain on the amp driving the bins to compensate. Hey Presto! No more clip light.

There's something fundamentally wrong here, so I will be taking the amp back to the supplier on Monday for them to check it over. It has to be a faulty amp (but mine is one of the deeper ones).

I might be persuaded to go down the active route yet... though having said that, the worst case scenario last night was that I drove just the tops straight from my mixer and dumped the bins, second amp and active crossover out of the set up (or possibly ran just one bin alongside the tops full range), whereas if I'd had actives I'd have been stuffed.

Julian
Interesting. Unusual for the amp on tops duty to be the problem. It's the sub amp doing the hard work. As said so many times on here, you can't do better than fault finding by comparison and elimination. That's why it's a help to have relatively interchangeable kit. ( said the man who is rapidly acquiring some kit which is completely incapable of working with the main rig. :o :o )

[DJ Jules]

Unusual for the amp on tops duty to be the problem. It's the sub amp doing the hard work.

Yeah, that was my thought too. It's pretty odd that it's only happened on one side as well, when the sensitivity switch affects both inputs.


As said so many times on here, you can't do better than fault finding by comparison and elimination. That's why it's a help to have relatively interchangeable kit.

Or two inputs on an amp with only one going faulty at a time... ;)

Julian

[markdj60]

Right i no this might sound stupid but can you tell me if i have my leads in the right way,i am coming out of my master on the mixer using phonos going into the input of my graphic with jacks then coming back out of the outputs using jack and going into the inputs of my amp with jack? also if im using phono to jack thats not balanced is it? please can someone shed some light on this subject for me,many thanks.

[Excalibur]

Right i no this might sound stupid but can you tell me if i have my leads in the right way,i am coming out of my master on the mixer using phonos going into the input of my graphic with jacks then coming back out of the outputs using jack and going into the inputs of my amp with jack? also if im using phono to jack thats not balanced is it? please can someone shed some light on this subject for me,many thanks.

Don't sweat the lack of balanced inputs. That shouldn't create any seriopus problems. I'd take the graphic out of the loop, as suggested earlier, and see if that helps.

[markdj60]

ok ill try it what if it sounds worse though?

[Excalibur]

ok ill try it what if it sounds worse though?

What if it cures the problem?

[markdj60]

ok i tryed it without the graphic and it sounded horrible as im used to using the graphic now.do you no of any good 19" budget mixers out there?

[DJ Jules]

ok i tryed it without the graphic and it sounded horrible as im used to using the graphic now.do you no of any good 19" budget mixers out there?

Gemini MM3000? About £140.00?

Julian

[Excalibur]

OK, so at least we've established that the graphic isn't the cause of the problem. At the moment the Numark C3 series is getting a lot of votes.

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/numark/C3

[markdj60]

cheers fellas will be looking for another mixer again now then.

[Johnny P]

ok i tryed it without the graphic and it sounded horrible as im used to using the graphic now.do you no of any good 19" budget mixers out there?

Was it louder without the graphic? or did 'tone' just sound horrible?