Suitable Hardrives! Urgent!

[OllieJames]

Hi all,

I've bought a Cortex to use as backup and appear to be having some issues.

I've bought two hard drives with the following tech specs:

Capacity 160GB
Interface USB 2.0, can also be connected to USB 1.1 port
Hard drive type 2.5�, low noise, low power consumption
performance Average seek time: < 13 ms
Track to Track seek time: 3 ms
Average Latency: 4.2 ms
Rotational Speed: 5400 rpm
Buffer Size: 8MB
Data transfer speed over USB 2.0 bus: up to 480Mbit/s
Power requirements USB bus powered, no power adapter required*
Weight 200 gr. / 7.05 Ounce
Dimensions 13.9 x 8.3 x 2 cm / 5.5 x 3.2 x 0.8 inch
mtbf 50000 P.O.H.
Environmental specifications Operating temperature: 10º C / 35º C
Storage temperature: -20º C / 80º C
minimum system requirements PC: Pentium-III 900MHz or higher, 256MB RAM (Vista, 512MB), CD‑ROM
drive, available USB 2.0 or USB 1.1 port, Win 2000 / XP / Vista
MAC : Mac OS X v.10.3 or higher, available USB port

to use one of them with the Cortex, however I think I may have made a duff buy, as even when using a powered USB hub, it seems like the cortex is struggling to play the songs off it (e.g. when playing a song on one side and trying to load a track on the other side, the playing side will skip?). I think it may be because the drive speed is either too slow or the cache isn't large enough.

Are there any suggestions regarding which external hard drives to use that aren't stupidly expensive? I will need around 160GB space i'd of thought...

It's urgent as I have a gig mid week, next week and would like a drive before then!

Thanks a lot!
Ollie

[DJ Jules]

In theory you shouldn't have any issues - I've been using something similar (not the exact drive) without any problems. The units aren't actually all that demanding on the disks, I've got bored a few weeks ago and benchmarked a number of different USB disks and memory sticks and found that the sustainable read/write speeds vary from 1Mb/s (Blackberry!) up to about 50Mb/s (USB to SATA interface with a 120Gb 2.5" disk) and I've never had any issues playing out from any of them (yes, I did actually run part of a quiz night using a Blackberry as a USB MSD on the Cortex).

Check if the drive has been formatted as FAT32 or NTFS. It needs to be FAT32 for the Cortex to be happy.

Also, check the firmware version in your unit, early versions were really buggy. To find out the firmware version, power up the unit with no hard disks or memory sticks attached, and hold down the "Info" button - it'll tell you the firmware version. If it's a HDC1000 it should be at 2.5.2, if it's a HDC3000, then it should be at 1.8.3. See the cortex site for info about obtaining and installing updated firmware.

Julian

[OllieJames]

In theory you shouldn't have any issues - I've been using something similar (not the exact drive) without any problems. The units aren't actually all that demanding on the disks, I've got bored a few weeks ago and benchmarked a number of different USB disks and memory sticks and found that the sustainable read/write speeds vary from 1Mb/s (Blackberry!) up to about 50Mb/s (USB to SATA interface with a 120Gb 2.5" disk) and I've never had any issues playing out from any of them (yes, I did actually run part of a quiz night using a Blackberry as a USB MSD on the Cortex).

Check if the drive has been formatted as FAT32 or NTFS. It needs to be FAT32 for the Cortex to be happy.

Also, check the firmware version in your unit, early versions were really buggy. To find out the firmware version, power up the unit with no hard disks or memory sticks attached, and hold down the "Info" button - it'll tell you the firmware version. If it's a HDC1000 it should be at 2.5.2, if it's a HDC3000, then it should be at 1.8.3. See the cortex site for info about obtaining and installing updated firmware.

Julian

Hi Julian,

The firmware on the HDC1000 is up-to-date and the hard drive is formatted to FAT32 already! That's why I was confused!

Any other ideas?

Thanks for your help,
Ollie

[ppentertainments]

I wouls seriously reccomend a powered hard drive. I had a bit of bother wih mine when using unpowered, even with a powered usb hub for some reason.

[OllieJames]

I wouls seriously reccomend a powered hard drive. I had a bit of bother wih mine when using unpowered, even with a powered usb hub for some reason.

Okay thanks for your advice. Have you got any in mind? I don't really want to spend too much!

[ppentertainments]

TBH I can't tell the difference between them, I usually look in the bargain bins in PC World etc. (the last on I got was for £25 in Staples).

Another thing I do every couple of months is to make sure the hard drive is backed up, format it, then add tracks again - makes a big difference.

[OllieJames]

TBH I can't tell the difference between them, I usually look in the bargain bins in PC World etc. (the last on I got was for £25 in Staples).

Another thing I do every couple of months is to make sure the hard drive is backed up, format it, then add tracks again - makes a big difference.

Okay thanks.

I'm assuming though a 7200rpm drive is a much better choice than a 5400rpm? I'll have a look around the net for some.

[pagan_flame]

If you go when it's dark and make sure no-one sees you... :D

... M*plins are selling 500GB Seagate powered external drives for £49 until the end of Jan, I believe...

--> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=260927

[soundtracker]

Had this issue, used the cortex manger software and all was well!

[Charlie Brown]

YOU ALREADY HAVE A DENON!?

You spend so much cash. I checked my bank balance today....a measly £10!

[OllieJames]

YOU ALREADY HAVE A DENON!?

You spend so much cash. I checked my bank balance today....a measly £10!

Charlie - read the OP properly. "Back-Up".


If you go when it's dark and make sure no-one sees you... :D

... M*plins are selling 500GB Seagate powered external drives for £49 until the end of Jan, I believe...

--> http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=260927

Wow - Thanks a lot! :) :)


Had this issue, used the cortex manger software and all was well!

How did the Cortex manager help?

Thanks!

[CRAZY K]

:D
Hi all,

I've bought a Cortex to use as backup and appear to be having some issues.

I've bought two hard drives with the following tech specs:

Capacity 160GB
Interface USB 2.0, can also be connected to USB 1.1 port
Hard drive type 2.5�, low noise, low power consumption
performance Average seek time: < 13 ms
Track to Track seek time: 3 ms
Average Latency: 4.2 ms
Rotational Speed: 5400 rpm
Buffer Size: 8MB
Data transfer speed over USB 2.0 bus: up to 480Mbit/s
Power requirements USB bus powered, no power adapter required*
Weight 200 gr. / 7.05 Ounce
Dimensions 13.9 x 8.3 x 2 cm / 5.5 x 3.2 x 0.8 inch
mtbf 50000 P.O.H.
Environmental specifications Operating temperature: 10º C / 35º C
Storage temperature: -20º C / 80º C
minimum system requirements PC: Pentium-III 900MHz or higher, 256MB RAM (Vista, 512MB), CD‑ROM
drive, available USB 2.0 or USB 1.1 port, Win 2000 / XP / Vista
MAC : Mac OS X v.10.3 or higher, available USB port

to use one of them with the Cortex, however I think I may have made a duff buy, as even when using a powered USB hub, it seems like the cortex is struggling to play the songs off it (e.g. when playing a song on one side and trying to load a track on the other side, the playing side will skip?). I think it may be because the drive speed is either too slow or the cache isn't large enough.

Are there any suggestions regarding which external hard drives to use that aren't stupidly expensive? I will need around 160GB space i'd of thought...

It's urgent as I have a gig mid week, next week and would like a drive before then!

Thanks a lot!
Ollie

Have you checked the Cortex is ok?

Try playing several tracks off a memory stick to make sure there are no issues with the machine.

Maplins seem to sell ok powered Hard Drives although im not sure if the smaller ones are powered:confused:

I have always used the Cortex HDC1000 with a pair of Maplin Seagate 320gb powered Hard Drives and never had a problem--only connect one and never use a hub.

Obviously I leave the back up one at home to comply with Pro dub rules:mad:

Far as I know I have never updated the Cortex---

If your passing call in for a check over session--:D

CRAZY K

[Charlie Brown]

Charlie - read the OP properly. "Back-Up".

I did Ollie...you have a denon, cd players, laptop and now a cortex. :confused:

[OllieJames]

:D

Have you checked the Cortex is ok?

Try playing several tracks off a memory stick to make sure there are no issues with the machine.

Maplins seem to sell ok powered Hard Drives although im not sure if the smaller ones are powered:confused:

I have always used the Cortex HDC1000 with a pair of Maplin Seagate 320gb powered Hard Drives and never had a problem--only connect one and never use a hub.

Obviously I leave the back up one at home to comply with Pro dub rules:mad:

Far as I know I have never updated the Cortex---

If your passing call in for a check over session--:D

CRAZY K

Hey,

I've just created a DB on a 4GB memory stick I have and have been playing around 8 songs off it with no problem what so ever? So I'm guessing the 160GB HDD i've been trying to use isn't getting enough power even from the powered USB hub then? So the solution is a powered HDD?

Thanks!


I did Ollie...you have a denon, cd players, laptop and now a cortex. :confused:

- Denon runs VDJ on computer.
- Cortex incase computer/denon fails. (of which I've had for a little while now anyway)
- CD players are there because I've been given a CD with some tracks on at a few parties in the past, so it's useful to have them there. Also means I don't have to load the CDs onto the computer incase the disc contain virus infected files.

[soundtracker]

Wow - Thanks a lot! :) :)



How did the Cortex manager help?

Thanks!

No idea, but until I used it I had exactly the same symptom as you . Costs you nothing to give it a try, certainly better than trying to buy a hard-drive to solve it, which won't!

[OllieJames]

No idea, but until I used it I had exactly the same symptom as you . Costs you nothing to give it a try, certainly better than trying to buy a hard-drive to solve it, which won't!

Well i've been using the Cortex manager with the hard drives anyway, and it still did it! As I said in a previous post, I tried a memory stick and it works fine, so it appears it's a lack of power?

[Charlie Brown]

- Denon runs VDJ on computer.
- Cortex incase computer/denon fails. (of which I've had for a little while now anyway)
- CD players are there because I've been given a CD with some tracks on at a few parties in the past, so it's useful to have them there. Also means I don't have to load the CDs onto the computer incase the disc contain virus infected files.

Fair enough sir. :)

[OllieJames]

Fair enough sir. :)

:)

[CRAZY K]

So the solution is a powered HDD?

Thanks!



Peter ( Excalibur) uses various combinations on Cortex and may well have some good advice in this area of hubs--ive never been there personally.

CRAZY K

[DJ Jules]

Well i've been using the Cortex manager with the hard drives anyway, and it still did it! As I said in a previous post, I tried a memory stick and it works fine, so it appears it's a lack of power?

Hmm, very unlikely. If it was a lack of power you'd know about it as the hard disk would be spinning down and re-seeking (you'd hear a kind of clunk sound as the heads reset). If it really is down to the unit not being able to get the data off the disk quick enough, it's because the disk isn't fast enough, not because it's "not got enough power".

To answer a previous question, 7200rpm drives will allow you to read/write data from/to them faster than 5400rpm drives, but in theory that should be un-necessary.

If you're player is up to date, and you've run Cortex DB Manager software on the drive, then it might be worth downloading this (http://release.crystaldew.info/CrystalDiskInfoSetup), attaching your USB disks to your PC, kicking off the software, and seeing what kind of figures you get to see how fast those disks really are?

Mine from my playout disk are pasted below:

Sequential Read : 27.435 MB/s
Sequential Write : 27.460 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 18.230 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 20.305 MB/s
Random Read 4KB : 0.498 MB/s
Random Write 4KB : 1.170 MB/s


And I get these from a Sandisk 8Gb memory stick (actually slightly slower than the physical disk!):

Sequential Read : 27.253 MB/s
Sequential Write : 15.279 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 27.236 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 2.133 MB/s
Random Read 4KB : 8.039 MB/s
Random Write 4KB : 0.013 MB/s

I'd expect figures twice these from a good set of SATA hard disks, and about half from an older IDE disk.

Let us know how you get on - if only because it might help other forum members avoid these disks in the future ;)

Julian

[spin mobile disco]

Update Ollie sorry for the delay didnt spot this post.
The file system is important when storing music especially in fat32.

I store in ntfs as it does not have the same problems as fat32. The main one being that if you have more than 500 songs in 1 folder it has a slow read when used with slower drives.

The recomended file layout is not more than 2 folders deep with no more than 500 files per folder. This is not neded when using an ntfs partition.

I would recomend about 20 albums per folder olr switch to ntfs. this will solve the problem.

[DJ Jules]

The recomended file layout is not more than 2 folders deep with no more than 500 files per folder. This is not neded when using an ntfs partition.

The 2 folders deep thing is because of a bug in the software when you're using the file browser - if you go deeper and use the file browse option, you're guaranteed to crash the unit. It's actually got nothing to do with speed. The files in a folder thing though can make a difference if you browse for files regularly, but if you index the drive using Cortex Manager then it actually makes no difference at all (because the unit never reads the contents of the actual directories on disk, it just goes straight to file in the index).


I would recomend about 20 albums per folder or switch to ntfs. this will solve the problem.

Switching to NTFS is a pain. You lose the ability to store settings, cue points, hot cue points and loops on the disk so they don't persist between gigs.

The biggest problem with FAT32 is that it has architectural limitations. There is a real limit to the number of files you can store in a directory (based on the sum of the number of characters in the file names!) but this is typically in the range of 3000+ tracks - and the error messages you get when you hit the limits will be really obscure, but if you're filing in directories, then you won't have this problem.

One test really worth doing, is to take one of your disks. Format it cleanly using FAT32, load 20 tracks onto it, use Cortex Manager to index it, and then try playing a track on both sides and see what happens....

Julian

[OllieJames]

Update Ollie sorry for the delay didnt spot this post.
The file system is important when storing music especially in fat32.

I store in ntfs as it does not have the same problems as fat32. The main one being that if you have more than 500 songs in 1 folder it has a slow read when used with slower drives.

The recomended file layout is not more than 2 folders deep with no more than 500 files per folder. This is not neded when using an ntfs partition.

I would recomend about 20 albums per folder olr switch to ntfs. this will solve the problem.

Hi Matt.

I currently have folders in the main directory, but don't contain any folders within those. However they have thousands of files in each folder. I'll try formatting one of the HDDs to NTFS and try that.

Thanks!

[Excalibur]

At the moment I'm on Dongle, cos my internet is down, Grrrr. :bang:
How many times do I have to post this? When using the Cortex:
POWER EVERYTHING

[Excalibur]

This may be useful reading.
http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23861&highlight=digital

[Creature]

was at local disco shop on thurs when a guy came in swearing his cortex was faulty - luckily he had it with him and i had mine - within 20 mins convinced him it was his harddrive he was powering it of USB hub :(:(

it even did teh same on mine - put my drive on his worked flawlessly

moto - laptop hardrives or harddrives that aare powered by usb are too slow and they just dont cut the mustaterd

if u need greater than 32 gig (memstick) then get an external pc hardrive complete with its own powersupply and fans !!!

[Vectis]

moto - laptop hardrives or harddrives that aare powered by usb are too slow and they just dont cut the mustaterd


I use three Freecom toughdrive pro's with my Numark d2 and IDJ2 interchangeably without a single problem for about 2 years or so. 160GB/5400rpm/8MB cache.

Motto should perhaps include the word 'Cortex' :o

[Excalibur]

I use three Freecom toughdrive pro's with my Numark d2 and IDJ2 interchangeably without a single problem for about 2 years or so. 160GB/5400rpm/8MB cache.

Motto should perhaps include the word 'Cortex' :o

Oi. Vectis. Specsavers time. Read post #24 again. Includes C word. ;) :p :p :p :p :p :p

[OllieJames]

Powered HDD it is then!
As Pagan suggested, there are some 500GB Seagate drives @ 7200rpm for £49 each, so will buy a couple of those.

Thanks!

[Excalibur]

Powered HDD it is then!
As Pagan suggested, there are some 500GB Seagate drives @ 7200rpm for £49 each, so will buy a couple of those.

Thanks!

The way things are going, all HD's are getting bigger. Unless someone brings out a new HDC with all the mods we've been crying out for, it's soon going to be very tricky to find a powered drive of small enough capacity to work with, for example a Cortex. When they're nearly all starting at 1Tb now. :eek: I suppose the next step along the way is to lash a 1 Tb HD to a cortex, and report on the findings. I'm fairly sure I've seen that sometimes big drives are partitioned, and show up as half the size. Re sizing can help.

[soundtracker]

The way things are going, all HD's are getting bigger. Unless someone brings out a new HDC with all the mods we've been crying out for, it's soon going to be very tricky to find a powered drive of small enough capacity to work with, for example a Cortex. When they're nearly all starting at 1Tb now. :eek: I suppose the next step along the way is to lash a 1 Tb HD to a cortex, and report on the findings. I'm fairly sure I've seen that sometimes big drives are partitioned, and show up as half the size. Re sizing can help.

Already ahead of you there sir - done, works no problems at all, since installing cortex manager.

[Excalibur]

Already ahead of you there sir - done, works no problems at all, since installing cortex manager.

:bowdown: Well done that man. :D Guess the maximum size issue isn't actually an issue after all. Thanks.

[OllieJames]

Just finished formatting the HDD to NTFS, loading my whole collection on and creating a db with Cortex manager and it works perfectly? Would you still advise me to buy a powered HDD anyway and format that to NTFS? Thanks.

[OllieJames]

Also - it appears the Cortex doesn't recognise any of the songs I've bought off iTunes, so I assume I'll have to convert them to MP3?

[Corabar Steve]

Unless there's some way of getting the cortex to play protected AAC files, yes.

[OllieJames]

Unless there's some way of getting the cortex to play protected AAC files, yes.

Thanks Steve.

[DJ Jules]

Unless there's some way of getting the cortex to play protected AAC files, yes.

That'd be a no.

Julian

[Excalibur]

That'd be a no.

Julian

Two no's and a " there's an answer but I can't post it in public and it'll cost you £15" ( £15 not to me, by the way:( :( :( )

[DJ Jules]

Just finished formatting the HDD to NTFS, loading my whole collection on and creating a db with Cortex manager and it works perfectly? Would you still advise me to buy a powered HDD anyway and format that to NTFS? Thanks.

After I posted last night I remembered the other reason why I converted my HDD from FAT32 to NTFS (it was about 16months ago, so I'd forgotten). Whenever I connected a NTFS drive to my Cortex and selected the drive, the Cortex would crash and restart. Thinking back to it now, I think this was because at the time I was filing ALL of my MP3's in the root directory - meaning that I had a single directory with about 35,000 files in it (MP3 + WFF + IDX & HDC file in some cases). When the Cortex tried to read this, it just gave up :) In other words, NTFS may not suffer from some of the limitations that FAT32 does (in terms of the number of files you can put in a directory), but apparently the Cortex does :D When I reformatted the drive as FAT32, I found I couldn't put all 35,000 files into one directory (because of the limitations of FAT32), and had to put them into subdirectories and the Cortex was then fine with this.

The moral of the story - follow the manufacturers guidelines (which ironically include using FAT32 as the file system) and you'll be fine.

Julian

[CRAZY K]

At the moment I'm on Dongle, cos my internet is down, Grrrr. :bang:
How many times do I have to post this? When using the Cortex:
POWER EVERYTHING

Just as I was thinking of trying a small unpowered Hard Drive on the Cortex for my Western Theme nights:eek: :eek: :eek:

CRAZY K


Also - it appears the Cortex doesn't recognise any of the songs I've bought off iTunes, so I assume I'll have to convert them to MP3?

Correct

CRAZY K

[Corabar Steve]

That'd be a no.

Julian
No, it would be a yes.

The question was will I have to convert to MP3.

[DJ Jules]

No, it would be a yes.

The question was will I have to convert to MP3.

It would be a yes and a no. Yes to the original question (i.e. you have to convert to MP3), and no in response to your response (i.e. The cortex will not play AAC files). :D

Julian

[Excalibur]

Just as I was thinking of trying a small unpowered Hard Drive on the Cortex for my Western Theme nights:eek: :eek: :eek:

CRAZY K


I'm looking at doing exactly the same thing mate. ;) :D :D :D My suggestions are always based on what's the safest way to work. Powered everything is safe. I'm looking at being able to remove HD's for ease of updating, which is why the pocket drives are coming into the equation.

The one thing I'd recommend is to plug a good powered hub into the Cortex as supply for the HD. I'll keep you posted as to my results with the £3.50 Belkins I linked to elsewhere.

[OllieJames]

I'm looking at doing exactly the same thing mate. ;) :D :D :D My suggestions are always based on what's the safest way to work. Powered everything is safe. I'm looking at being able to remove HD's for ease of updating, which is why the pocket drives are coming into the equation.

The one thing I'd recommend is to plug a good powered hub into the Cortex as supply for the HD. I'll keep you posted as to my results with the £3.50 Belkins I linked to elsewhere.

I bought one of those Peter, and now my drive is formatted to NTFS it's working perfectly :)

[Excalibur]

I bought one of those Peter, and now my drive is formatted to NTFS it's working perfectly :)

From what others have said, I think the file structure is paramount if you intend to run FAT32. NTFS is less versatile and less easy to use when searching ( cos it goes right back to the beginning when you reverse one step. Try it with a Flash drive, and it only goes back one step )
NTFS is probably the better way to start, until you get used to it. You can try creating a FAT32 drive later, and see how it goes. I keep threateneing to have a go sometime. That and try making playlists.

[Excalibur]

Not sure if I missed this Ollie, but what were the make and model of the drives you got?

I've got a Maxtor passport portable ( with two usb cables) which appears to be fine with the Cortex, and a WD Elements portable, which at the moment isn't.

And still isn't I even swapped the dual cable with the single, and that was no good.

Ah well.back to the drawing board.

[OllieJames]

Not sure if I missed this Ollie, but what were the make and model of the drives you got?

I've got a Maxtor passport portable ( with two usb cables) which appears to be fine with the Cortex, and a WD Elements portable, which at the moment isn't.

And still isn't I even swapped the dual cable with the single, and that was no good.

Ah well.back to the drawing board.

I'm using FreeCom HDDs with single USB cables. I tried a dual cable too and it still jumped. It seems to be okay now it's formatted as NTFS.

[Excalibur]

I'm using FreeCom HDDs with single USB cables. I tried a dual cable too and it still jumped. It seems to be okay now it's formatted as NTFS.

Freecom appear to be flavour of the month. I'm having no success with one of my WD's, and I can't really try the other one, as it's not got MP3's on now, though from memory when I plugged it into a Cortex, it worked.