Are my terms & conditions too strict?

[rob1963]

Morning all.

I've just chased up an outstanding customer, as last December she requested a disco, but I still haven't received the booking form & deposit.

She said she'd decided not to go ahead as she wasn't happy with this part of my terms & conditions, particularly in relation to vehicles:

The client will ensure there is adequate supervision of guests, customers and staff at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of, or damage to, our equipment, vehicles or personal belongings, whether caused by the client, guests, customers or staff.

This is the first time someone has decided not to book due to being unhappy with anything in my terms & conditions, so it's got me thinking whether this requirement might be a little strict or unfair, and if I should consider changing it.

Having said that, when formulating my terms & conditions I looked at those of dozens of other discos, and it seemed pretty standard, which is why I included it in mine.

What do you think?

:shrug:

[Vectis]

I think either

a) she's found someone cheaper and is just presenting an excuse

or

b) she knows what her family are like :p :D


My equivalent clauses are:

• The client is responsible for any damage to our equipment caused by any person(s) at the event other than VectisVibe staff. We will advise of any damage as soon as it is caused, and charge for the full cost of any repairs or replacements required. To this end, it is imperative that only VectisVibe staff operate our equipment with the limited exception of microphones at our discretion and under our supervision;
• We DO NOT tolerate violent, abusive or aggressive behaviour towards our staff under any circumstances. We reserve the right to suspend or terminate our services at any time we feel our personal safety is under threat. Any such behaviour will also be reported to the police;
• For children’s and young teens events, we strongly recommend the presence of one responsible adult per 10 youngsters. We require an absolute minimum of two responsible adults to be present at all times as a condition of accepting the booking;

... and I've never had such a problem.
:beer1:

[worldofparties]

Some people don't like having responcibility if something goes wrong, ok, it may not be their fauly, however they did invite them to the party.

So if she is unhappy about the terms and conditions you might have to enforce if anything happens, what about the venue, if they damage anything in the property surely the venue has some sort of terms and contitions simaler to yours.

To answer your question no your not too strict or unfair

My T's & C's read in our Conduct and Security section 4;

4. Conduct and Security
4.1) The client will ensure that the audience and anyone other than our team conduct themselves in a proper manner. World of Parties will not be held responsible for any actions, behaviour or damage caused by those attending the event, under any circumstances.

4.2) The World of Parties team will conduct themselves in a proper manner throughout their attendance at the venue, and will respond to the clients requests (unless in breach of any laws or venue requirements/restrictions) as to volume, positioning of equipment, and any other reasonable requests. If you require the DJ and any other staff to adhere to any specific dress code please advise at the time of booking. We will happily oblige wherever possible

4.3) Often, World of Parties may take photographs or video footage of events, to be used in promotional materials. If you, the Client, object to this, please notify us before the date of the event.

4.4) The client will be responsible for any malicious damage or theft of equipment caused by guests, the client will be responsible for pursuing the matter with the individuals involved.

4.5A) It is the client’s responsibility to ensure the good conduct of their guests. If at any time, before or during the event, we deem our persons or property to be under threat, we reserve the right to terminate our services without further notice. In these circumstances no refund will be made.

4.5B) The In the event of any actual or threatened abuse, the DJ may turn the music down, and request that the matter is dealt with. The music will be left turned down for up to 10 minutes, and if the problem is not dealt with in that time, the DJ has the right to refuse to play on.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I agree that it's pretty standard Rob

[Steve the DJ]

What do you think?

I think it is pretty standard and agree with Vectis.

I have had one couple in nearly 20 years who decided not to book because they thought I could easily wriggle out of the booking due to the "Force Majeure" clause which is standard in almost every service contract I have ever read.

"Your right..." said I, "...if there is a civil war that starts in Surrey I might be a bit late..."... :shrug:

Mind you, while I have a similar "Damage" clause in my contract I do wonder if you could ever make it stick, especially as contract terms are supposed to be considered "fair" on both parties.

Trying to charge someone because their drunken uncle knocked over a speaker whilst trying to do the lambada could be interesting...

[CRAZY K]

Morning all.

I've just chased up an outstanding customer, as last December she requested a disco, but I still haven't received the booking form & deposit.

She said she'd decided not to go ahead as she wasn't happy with this part of my terms & conditions, particularly in relation to vehicles:

The client will ensure there is adequate supervision of guests, customers and staff at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of, or damage to, our equipment, vehicles or personal belongings, whether caused by the client, guests, customers or staff.

This is the first time someone has decided not to book due to being unhappy with anything in my terms & conditions, so it's got me thinking whether this requirement might be a little strict or unfair, and if I should consider changing it.

Having said that, when formulating my terms & conditions I looked at those of dozens of other discos, and it seemed pretty standard, which is why I included it in mine.

What do you think?

:shrug:

Sounds suspicious---I mean who reads all the terms and conditions or even half of the things on your Website:eek:

Based on some of the idiots who ring up here everyday:eek:

I would ignore it and just carry on.

I assume most sensible operators have their vehicles and equipment insured anyway.:confused: if they are so worried about them.

I dont have such conditions and wrote off my beloved camera at the last gig when it smashed into the floor--I really dont know whether it was a guest or me who knocked it over ( was on a tripod ) as we were all watching the MALE STRIPPER cavorting in front of the three Birthday girls

:Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh:

Ah well only £129 for a new one.

Bargain:D

CRAZY K

[Spirits High]

Your T&Cs are fine Rob.

I had something similar last May here's the thread

http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19887

Personally I think it was down to price ;)

[Shaun]

Rob, the clause is pretty standard, and one of the most essential in my opinion.

[soundtracker]

I agree as well Rob, don't waste any more time on it - just move on to the next one!

[rob1963]

Thanks for all the comments & opinions so far.

As a result of these, my terms & conditions will be staying exactly the same as they are!

:D

[Penfold42]

Thanks for all the comments & opinions so far.

As a result of these, my terms & conditions will be staying exactly the same as they are!

:D

Agree with what everyone has said so far but I thought you had some lawyer look at them a while back and give you the :thumbsup: :confused:

[rob1963]

Agree with what everyone has said so far but I thought you had some lawyer look at them a while back and give you the :thumbsup: :confused:

I did indeed, and she did give them the thumbs up.

However, she also commented that one or two of them were a little on the harsh side, but I didn't ask for details due to the fact that she still gave them the green light.

[ppentertainments]

Pretty standard - although you will find it has no actual legal standing. However I agree to leave as it is an move on ;)

[womble]

I can understand the clients concern.

If something happened to your vehicle while parked outside the venue, say someone vandalised, or even stole your car/van, would you then chase the customer for the repair/replacement cost?

If you would, then keep the condition as it is. If you wouldn't then there's no need for it in the T&C's.

[rob1963]

If something happened to your vehicle while parked outside the venue, say someone vandalised, or even stole your car/van, would you then chase the customer for the repair/replacement cost?


That would depend entirely on the circumstances.

The term is there to protect me & my equipment, but that doesn't mean I would ALWAYS enforce it. I would use my common sense.

Therefore, this term is staying.

[Kernow]

The client will ensure there is adequate supervision of guests, customers and staff at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of, or damage to, our equipment, vehicles or personal belongings, whether caused by the client, guests, customers or staff.


I can understand the clients concern.

If something happened to your vehicle while parked outside the venue, say someone vandalised, or even stole your car/van, would you then chase the customer for the repair/replacement cost?

If you would, then keep the condition as it is. If you wouldn't then there's no need for it in the T&C's.

As I see it, and although the wording may differ, most contracts have a similar clause, effective only against those for whom the client should bear some responsibility (if only moral ?)
It is not designed to issue liability for random damage or loss caused by those unrelated to the event.
How often have you seen a sign along the lines of ""**** is left here at the owners risk, The proprietors accept no liability for loss or damage howsoever caused....."

The basic message is "If your crowd cause trouble or damage, we're out of here, and we want compensation !!" which I think is a perfectly reasonable attitude to adopt.

[rob1963]

The basic message is "If your crowd cause trouble or damage, we're out of here, and we want compensation !!" which I think is a perfectly reasonable attitude to adopt.

Spot on!

[DJ INDIE]

I agree the terms are correct in covering equipment etc inside the building and damage caused by staff/client/guest - standard stuff, but Id never thought of adding vehicle.

I can see why someone wouldnt be happy signing (in theory) liability to pay for damage that could in theory be done by anyone outside of the party.

Also, a lot of venues dont have private car parks etc, but those that do invariably have 'parked at owners risk' so Im not sure how you would stand anyway?


but theyre youre T&Cs and you should stick by them.

[DJMaxG]

The client will ensure there is adequate supervision of guests, customers and staff at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of, or damage to, our equipment, vehicles or personal belongings, whether caused by the client, guests, customers or staff

Rob, you need to explain that they are there for safety reasons and to also protect your livelyhood, it's the same with most trades, I would have thought.

Hey - it might be a hint that there's some very dodgy guests arriving :D

[Corabar Steve]

I think the only cause for concern is the fact that you are holding the client responsible for the venue staff's behaviour.

I must confess I wouldn't want to sign for that either. Although I can only think of one instance in 20 odd years that a member of venue staff has been responsible of damage (they unplugged me & plugged back in before I could turn everything down, causing the tops of one of the speakers to blow), but the client did offer to pay (funnily enough I was speaking to him yesterday about another booking)

[DJMaxG]

(they unplugged me & plugged back in before I could turn everything down, causing the tops of one of the speakers to blow)

That's always been a concern about using sockets that are positioned away from the console, best to get one of these (http://www.seton.co.uk/setoneurope/product/0/20/PWP.html#).

[rob1963]

I think the only cause for concern is the fact that you are holding the client responsible for the venue staff's behaviour.

I must confess I wouldn't want to sign for that either.

In more than 25 years, I've not had damage caused to any of my equipment by anyone at all.

However, if any of clients don't want to sign for that, they can find another disco.

Simples!

:D

[Corabar Steve]

That's always been a concern about using sockets that are positioned away from the consoleDo you often have people unplug stuff in your living room then Max?

best to get one of these (http://www.seton.co.uk/setoneurope/product/0/20/PWP.html#).No need, it was a long time ago & we now use RCDs on all our rigs, which have to be re-set before you can power up.

However, if any of clients don't want to sign for that, they can find another disco.
If that's your position, then fair enough.

[rob1963]

That's always been a concern about using sockets that are positioned away from the console, best to get one of these (http://www.seton.co.uk/setoneurope/product/0/20/PWP.html#).

Or alternatively use a UPS on your console like I do.

:D

[DJMaxG]

Do you often have people unplug stuff in your living room then Max?

In a public setup, that is what I'd use.






Or alternatively use a UPS on your console like I do Now, that sounds like a good idea :p

[Excalibur]

Or alternatively use a UPS on your console like I do.

:D

Does the UPS power the amps as well Rob? Having them come on at full whack is what fried Steve's HF unit. ;) ( Cost him about £3.50, on his cabs. ;) ;) :D :D :D )

[rob1963]

Or alternatively use a UPS on your console like I do.

:D


Does the UPS power the amps as well Rob? Having them come on at full whack is what fried Steve's HF unit. ;) ( Cost him about £3.50, on his cabs. ;) ;) :D :D :D )

No, Peter.

My UPS only runs the console (IE D2 & mixer).

If I wanted something powerful enough to run the amp & lighting, it would be enormous & would probably weigh about half a ton!

[Excalibur]

No, Peter.

My UPS only runs the console (IE D2 & mixer).

If I wanted something powerful enough to run the amp & lighting, it would be enormous & would probably weigh about half a ton!

I know that, and what I'm getting at is that it will not protect your amps and particularly your speakers, in a power loss and return. More so, since your D2 will never have stopped running.

[Corabar Steve]

Does the UPS power the amps as well Rob? Having them come on at full whack is what fried Steve's HF unit. ;) ( Cost him about £3.50, on his cabs. ;) ;) :D :D :D )
Nope it was BC (Before Class Ds)

[Excalibur]

Nope it was BC (Before Class Ds)

Oh dear. :( :( :( :( :(

[rob1963]

I know that, and what I'm getting at is that it will not protect your amps and particularly your speakers, in a power loss and return. More so, since your D2 will never have stopped running.

I'm not sure if my amp or speakers NEED protecting.

The power has been cut off dozens of times by sound limiters over the years, but this has never caused any damage to my amp or speakers.

:confused:

[DJMaxG]

No, Peter.
My UPS only runs the console (IE D2 & mixer)

After Googling it and saw the size of them, I guessed you didn't run one?

Can you link to it, sounds interesting?

[Cowlinn]

I'm not sure if my amp or speakers NEED protecting.

The power has been cut off dozens of times by sound limiters over the years, but this has never caused any damage to my amp or speakers.

:confused:

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the powering back on that does the damage?

[DJMaxG]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the powering back on that does the damage?

I guess that's what Steve meant about the RCDs.

[Cowlinn]

I guess that's what Steve meant about the RCDs.

Yes. Which is why Rob wouldn't have had any damage caused by sound limiters...

[Corabar Steve]

I'm not sure if my amp or speakers NEED protecting.

The power has been cut off dozens of times by sound limiters over the years, but this has never caused any damage to my amp or speakers.

:confused:It's not the power being cut that does the damage


Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the powering back on that does the damage?Indeed, if the power comes back on before you can turn off the amps you can get a surge


I guess that's what Steve meant about the RCDs.
Yes.

[rob1963]

After Googling it and saw the size of them, I guessed you didn't run one?

Can you link to it, sounds interesting?

Max,

I use a Powerware 3110.

The link below will show you what it looks like & give you the spec.

As you can see, it's not too large & only weighs 3KG.

Hope this helps.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UPS-3110-300VA-New-Battery-Unused-WARRANTED_W0QQitemZ120518349663QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_Computing_PowerSupplies_EH?hash=item1c0f74135f


It's not the power being cut that does the damage

What is it then?

:shrug:

[Corabar Steve]

What is it then?

:shrug:2 people have already answered that (most recently, me in the post you quoted)

Please read the whole post you quote from before asking pointless questions.

[rob1963]

2 people have already answered that (most recently, me in the post you quoted)

Please read the whole post you quote from before asking pointless questions.

Not being perfect, I missed that part, for which I apologise.

I don't switch my amp off when the power is cut by a limiter, and I've never had problems with a power surge, so it would appear to be a very rare problem.

[Excalibur]

Not being perfect, I missed that part, for which I apologise.

I don't switch my amp off when the power is cut by a limiter, and I've never had problems with a power surge, so it would appear to be a very rare problem.

Rob, I'm guessing the problem is when some twit realises what he's done, and switches a wall socket straight back on, and the noise generated fron that switching does the damage. As you say, usually it's not a problem.

[Kernow]

Rob, I'm guessing the problem is when some twit realises what he's done, and switches a wall socket straight back on, and the noise generated fron that switching does the damage. As you say, usually it's not a problem.

Especially if your amplifier features "soft start" :)
Wait till you get the Warrior you covet Peter and you'll see the advantage ;)

[DJMaxG]

I like the RCD idea :approve:

[soundtracker]

:ontopic:

[rob1963]

Quote: The client will ensure there is adequate supervision of guests, customers and staff at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of, or damage to, our equipment, vehicles or personal belongings, whether caused by the client, guests, customers or staff.

Having just read the whole thread again, I'm back on the fence as to what to do, as I'm now wondering about removing the word "vehicles" from my terms, as maybe this IS a bit over the top.

Help!

:shrug:

[Shaun]

Quote: The client will ensure there is adequate supervision of guests, customers and staff at the venue, and will be liable for any loss of, or damage to, our equipment, vehicles or personal belongings, whether caused by the client, guests, customers or staff.

Having just read the whole thread again, I'm back on the fence as to what to do, as I'm now wondering about removing the word "vehicles" from my terms, as maybe this IS a bit over the top.

Help!

:shrug:

Having been in the situation where fights have broken out outside the venue, and pint glasses thrown all around my vehicle, followed by a group of people hanging from and violently rocking the van whilst I tried to move it out the way.....I wouldnt dream off removing the vehicle clause from my T&C's.

The chances of it happening again are probably very slim, and it's one of those situations that's only ever likely to pop up once in a lifetime, but it did happen, which is why the vehicle clause was added in the first place.

[Penfold42]

Having been in the situation where fights have broken out outside the venue, and pint glasses thrown all around my vehicle, followed by a group of people hanging from and violently rocking the van whilst I tried to move it out the way.....

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Nice gig.:)

[Vectis]

Having been in the situation where fights have broken out outside the venue, and pint glasses thrown all around my vehicle, followed by a group of people hanging from and violently rocking the van whilst I tried to move it out the way.....I wouldnt dream off removing the vehicle clause from my T&C's.

The chances of it happening again are probably very slim, and it's one of those situations that's only ever likely to pop up once in a lifetime, but it did happen, which is why the vehicle clause was added in the first place.

You could argue that vehicle = equipment anyway, being a company asset and all that. Just thinking of trying to keep the Ts & Cs as concise as possible.

[rob1963]

If I saw the client vandalizing my van (which is extremely unlikely!), I'd obviously use this term to make them pay for the repairs.

However, if there was damage caused to my van while parked at a gig, it would probably happen while I was inside, so I wouldn't know how it happened or who the culprit was.

In the real world, if I came out of a function to find my aerial snapped off, a light smashed or a dent where someone had obviously backed into me, would I REALLY hold the client (usually the bride) responsible & ask he to pay? Of course not. Therefore, is it really worth having the word "vehicles" included in this term, just in case the bride goes wild & smashes my van up?

I'm thinking probably not.

:shrug:

[Shaun]

If having the termage 'vehicle' doesn't sit well with you then it's probably best to remove it from your T&C's. Having had a bad experience, I've opted to include it, and so far nobody has questioned it. There's no right answer, just what's right for you.

[NKR]

If I saw the client vandalizing my van (which is extremely unlikely!), I'd obviously use this term to make them pay for the repairs.



If I saw the client vandalising my vehicle then I would help them by using their head against my tow bar.

I am a very nice chap but don't ..... you know the rest.

[Excalibur]

If I saw the client vandalising my vehicle then I would help them by using their head against my tow bar.

I am a very nice chap but don't ..... you know the rest.

Neil, I reckon Rob can safely remove the Vehicle clause, since he works in Surrey, not Lancashire. :p :D :D :D

[rob1963]

Neil, I reckon Rob can safely remove the Vehicle clause, since he works in Surrey, not Lancashire. :p :D :D :D

Indeed.

One lives & works in a very posh & exclusive area!

:D :D :D

[ppentertainments]

Indeed.

One lives & works in a very posh & exclusive area!

:D :D :D
You recently moved then ?? :D :D :D :D :D

[DJMaxG]

You recently moved then ?? :D :D :D :D :D

It must be one of those blocks of flats with a swimming pool, private gated parking, and an all singing all dancing gymnaism :approve:

[rob1963]

You recently moved then ?? :D :D :D :D :D

:rofl:

[Corabar Steve]

Indeed.

One lives & works in a very posh & exclusive area!

:D :D :D


You recently moved then ?? :D :D :D :D :D
Indeed, that's not exactly how I remember Surrey when I lived there. (full of chavs, or proto-chavs as the term hadn't been invented then)

Worcester Park isn't exactly the "high end"

[Kernow]

Indeed, that's not exactly how I remember Surrey when I lived there. (full of chavs, or proto-chavs as the term hadn't been invented then)

Worcester Park isn't exactly the "high end"

But it does have a Kentucky Fried Pheasant !! :D :D :D

[rob1963]

Indeed, that's not exactly how I remember Surrey when I lived there. (full of chavs, or proto-chavs as the term hadn't been invented then)

Worcester Park isn't exactly the "high end"

Indeed, and I want to move up market, so when I can afford it I'll be moving to Barnet.

:rofl:

[NKR]

Neil, I reckon Rob can safely remove the Vehicle clause, since he works in Surrey, not Lancashire. :p :D :D :D

Oh I know because you have so many lovely places like Doncaster, Rotherham, Barnsley and lets not forget those jewels in the crown that are Goole and Selby.

I envy you, I do. :p :p :p :p :p :p

[Corabar Steve]

Indeed, and I want to move up market, so when I can afford it I'll be moving to Barnet.

:rofl:
If you do make sure it's to Hadleigh Wood, Totteridge, or Oakleigh Park. Some of the other areas are worse than where you are.