New speakers - looking for advice...

[simply simon]

Hi all,

I've just returned to the mobile DJ business after a couple of years away (still DJing, but working for others, rather than running my own show).

I'm looking to buy a new speaker set up for a sensible price (£500 - £750). Power wise 600w-800w should suffice - I can borrow/hire bigger systems if and when needed. The question of course is active or passive? I used to use RCF active (310A and 705AS sub) but that's way outside the budget. I'm looking at Behringer, DB Technologie and DAP Audio as possibles. If anyone has experience of these brands, I'd be grateful for your feedback.

I know there's a debate about active v. passive, but when you look at performance against value for money, there's no competition; active wins hand down. My old RCF cost under £1400 for a 1.5Kw rig. There just wasn't any comparable passive system that came close on price!

Looking at the current crop of cabs, the same applies: The DAP PS-112 active (375 w RMS) costs £236. The passive model is £156. If you buy a pair of actives, you're effectively paying an additional £160 for a 2x350w amp. The equivalent DAP amp costs £190. Also, as you have two amps, you can run on one should the other fail, which removes the need to carry a spare amp. There is the weight to consider - the amp is 22kg (without a flight case) and the passive speakers 12Kg each. The active units are 17Kg each. So that's 12Kg less to lug around!

Of course, I'm happy to be proved wrong - I have my doubts about the quality of the cheaper active units, but can't see a cost-effective passive solution. let me know your thoughts!

[A1DL]

Hi Simon

Out of the three manufacturers you have mentioned, the db Technologies offerings will probably offer you the best quality.

In deciding whether to go for powered or unpowered cabs, think of the applications you will be using them for. For example, if you will be using them outdoors, unpowered cabs will be a better bet, as you haven't got to get AC to them, nor protect the amp module against the elements whilst maintaining sufficient ventilation.

Finally, forget about the "watts" numbers, as you can't hear watts. I have a 2kw heater under my desk and you can barely hear it. Look for cabs with a good sensitivity rating (1w/1m SPL) and be wary of high peak SPL numbers which are often calculated (as opposed to measured) using peak input power values, which are sustainable for only a few ms, and don't take account of the cab being less than 100% efficient and dissipating some of those watts as heat.

Hope this helps

Tony

[CRAZY K]

Hi all,

I've just returned to the mobile DJ business after a couple of years away (still DJing, but working for others, rather than running my own show).

I'm looking to buy a new speaker set up for a sensible price (£500 - £750). Power wise 600w-800w should suffice - I can borrow/hire bigger systems if and when needed. The question of course is active or passive? I used to use RCF active (310A and 705AS sub) but that's way outside the budget. I'm looking at Behringer, DB Technologie and DAP Audio as possibles. If anyone has experience of these brands, I'd be grateful for your feedback.

I know there's a debate about active v. passive, but when you look at performance against value for money, there's no competition; active wins hand down. My old RCF cost under £1400 for a 1.5Kw rig. There just wasn't any comparable passive system that came close on price!

Looking at the current crop of cabs, the same applies: The DAP PS-112 active (375 w RMS) costs £236. The passive model is £156. If you buy a pair of actives, you're effectively paying an additional £160 for a 2x350w amp. The equivalent DAP amp costs £190. Also, as you have two amps, you can run on one should the other fail, which removes the need to carry a spare amp. There is the weight to consider - the amp is 22kg (without a flight case) and the passive speakers 12Kg each. The active units are 17Kg each. So that's 12Kg less to lug around!

Of course, I'm happy to be proved wrong - I have my doubts about the quality of the cheaper active units, but can't see a cost-effective passive solution. let me know your thoughts!

Not sure if it helps but a Peavey nut signing in;)

Maybe a bit weighty but theres a pair of Pro 15s plus subs--4 passive speakers for £439 on why buy new ---you supply the amp and mixer!!!!

Not the quality ( or price ) of RCF of course.

What about Peters mates in Mansfield, Class D--you could do worse than a pair of CD 15SP punchy but heavy at £279 a pair.

If only I could lift them on to stands---aaaaargh!!!!!!!

CRAZY K

[DJMaxG]

I'm looking to buy a new speaker set up for a sensible price (£500 - £750). Power wise 600w-800w should suffice

Simon,
I'm guessing you are just looking to get 2 x Satillite cabinets (no subs),

in which case, I wouldn't have thought you'd be able to cover every venue, unless the majority of work is in smaller rooms.

I have heard the Carlsbro 12" (300w per cab) Gammas, and they sounded pretty decent, admittedly the bass was a bit clappy, but they are only 12" + horn.



I have a 2kw heater under my desk and you can barely hear it

:lol:

[Corabar Entertainment]

Max: seeing as you aren't a working DJ going out to gigs and seeing equipment in a working environment, I would strongly suggest that you refrain from giving advice like this.

[flatliners]

Simon,
I'm guessing you are just looking to get 2 x Satillite cabinets (no subs),

in which case, I wouldn't have thought you'd be able to cover every venue, unless the majority of work is in smaller rooms.

I have heard the Carlsbro 12" (300w per cab) Gammas, and they sounded pretty decent, admittedly the bass was a bit clappy, but they are only 12" + horn.



:lol:

carlsbro do not are not trading anymore look at the fortissimo active speakers

[Charlie Brown]

Max: seeing as you aren't a working DJ
....I don't think 12inch speakers would be adequate Max.

Simon the class d's are great, when used with other speakers. I would't dream of using mine alone - it would sound terrible. They offer some decent tops I believe.

You may want to introduce yourself here. :)

http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=32

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

....I don't think 12inch speakers would be adequate Max.



And how do you come to that conclusion?

Firstly he might be using them with subs and secondly Mackie SRM450s are 12" speakers and fairly efficient and loud. :)

[spin mobile disco]

I would vote for the DB stuff myself. I use opera 402's 405's and db dub 15's. Very happy with all of them,. 402's are well priced and can do up to 100 peope on there own with no problem if bass cut with subs they can easiy handly 400. I did an outdoor event with 2 tops and 1 sub and had up to about 700 at one point and it still sounded good.

[Charlie Brown]

Yes Darren, sorry your right. :)

It's because I don't use bass bins, so have always brought 15inch - to produce a bit of bass...it's what you get used to I guess. ;)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've used a pair of DB Tech basic 400's on their own and played to 150ish. It's pushing it a bit and with some bass bins it would easily be enough.

[Excalibur]

I can find a Class D rig with two subs, two tops and one T-amp from Thomann for £650. Two amps and a crossover, £850. The one I'd go for would be neither of those, CD**SP's in 12" or 15" as you wish, CD15/15N subs, and one TA 1400 amp. £800. Add a crossover and second amp when you can, £300 more.

Whatever you buy, listen first, sound is very subjective. Class D in particular will demo any and all of their range for you. We even demoed Justins Mackies for someone else there!! :eek: :eek: :D :D :D :D
Plenty of options, plenty of brands and sizes, just listen to 'em before parting with your hard earned. Also, keep asking questions on here, it will save you money and anguish, believe me.

[Twinspin]

As a user myself of the RCF Active stuff id agree that they fantastic and if money wasnt any alternative i would have said go for another RCF system but the next best thing to RCF for the budget would be DB Technologies Operas
nice cabs for what they cost.

[simply simon]

So the Operas are looking good at the moment... Does anyone here use Behringer or DAP Audio?

A DJ I'm going to be working with has a range of Peavey, including Messenger and Eurosys, which I have access to for larger gigs. I need something small and lightweight for my own rig. Any comments about the Peavey plastic cabs would be welcome too!!!

[Twinspin]

One good suggestion would be a HK Audio Lucas 1000. A secondhand one. These systems are very good theyre not big but theyre powerful.

2x 8" satellites 1x 15" Subwoofer. I used one myself and it was phenominal to say the least. Could do up to 100/150 people.

They pop up on ebay for around £650 / £750.00 and the system is active


some pictures

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/17th%20March%202007/DSC00068.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/S7000051.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/S7000050.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/S7000052.jpg


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/S7000054.jpg

[jc light and sound]

And how do you come to that conclusion?

Firstly he might be using them with subs and secondly Mackie SRM450s are 12" speakers and fairly efficient and loud. :)

Totally agree with Darren here
If you are on a budget but want quality lightweight powerful cabs checkout the hz range if your interested pm me and i will give you there contact details.

[DJMaxG]

you would also want an amp for backup

[simply simon]

Remember I'm on a budget! - The Operas are about £700, whereas the HZ are about £650.. then you have to add an amp and a spare - bringing the price nearer to £1000 for a 600 watt system.

If I had that kind of money, I'd be buying RCF again!

[simply simon]

Had a look at the various HK options when I bought my previous RCF system. TBH, they're good, but severely overpriced! The RCF sat/sub arrangement I had costs about £1500 new for a 1.5Kw (still available now) top quality system. The equivalent HK is over £2000! (with lower specs) Also, as the sats on the RCF are independent, you can use them on their own for smaller gigs.

both are rare as hen's teeth on Ebay, but logic states that the RCF should be cheaper...

I notice that Mackie have introduced Thump range. Has anyone tried them yet?

[A1DL]

bringing the price nearer to £1000 for a 600 watt system.

how many thousand times does it have to be said that wattage isn't a measure of how loud a system will play or how many people it will cater for?

[christoph]

How about this mate, if you have the room in the van:

http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/product_details.php?product=DAP%20AUDIO%20CLUBSHAD E%201000W%20RMS%20ACTIVE%20PA%20SYSTEM&id_prd=528

I'm using one of these at the moment. First time out with it last night and very impressed. I'm not about to say its HK good, but not far off. Official count at the door was 259 people in the end, and it <forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post>ed it.


Independent two way amp in each sub too, so if one goes down you can run both tops off the other sub amp.

Oh and remeber the DAP is made by the guys who were part of the HK team. Probably why they look so similar!

[flatliners]

http://www.studiospares.com/PA-Speakers/Studiospares-Fortissimo-15A-Active-Single/invt/248260&bklist=
http://www.studiospares.com/PA-Speakers/Studiospares-Fortissimo-15A-Sub-Bass-Active-Single/invt/248270

[simply simon]

A1DL - I know that watts aren't everything, but all other things being equal (SPL, frequency range/response, sensitivity etc), the higher the RMS, the louder the system. It's a very basic comparison, but you have to start somewhere!

Christoph - I was seriously considering the DAP sytem already, so I reckon it's just gone to the top of the list! I use a people carrier, which used to take the RCF sub and gear without removing the seats, so I should be able to fit these in!

Flatliners - what are your thoughts on the Studio Spares units?

[A1DL]

A1DL - I know that watts aren't everything, but all other things being equal (SPL, frequency range/response, sensitivity etc), the higher the RMS, the louder the system. It's a very basic comparison, but you have to start somewhere!


My point is why do people continue to post "£x for a y watts box" as opposed to "£x for a y dB SPL box", or "£x for a mid-high box with y degrees horizontal dispertion". With the latter two examples, you can work out how many boxes you need to hire/buy. The first example tells you nothing other assisting with matching suitable amplifiers, but on the basis you still don't know how many boxes you need, as you're in the dark as to how loud they play or their coverage, you've not enough data to spec/build a rack anyway!

"all other things" rarely are equal and even when they are;
(a) the higher the input power, more of those beloved watts get turned into heat instead of sound
(b) a 3dB increase in sound is audible, less than that is barely audible, and to achieve that 3dB increase you need to double the input power at the same efficiency.

Point being, with, as you put it, all other things being equal, a human will not hear the difference between a 600w speaker and an 800w speaker and when DJs/musos come out with statements like "we've got 3k out front but really need another 1½k" they are talking out of their bottom holes.

Whilst it defies all laws of physics, for many years there has existed a perceived correlation, particularly amongst young males, between the amount of watts their sound system uses (or "pumps" - as they believe you can "hear" watts) and the size of their manhood. Which possibly explains the emanation of the term "to pump"...;)

[spin mobile disco]

I have a pair of the thumps as well. They are not bad if its a mixed croud then should be ok for 100 - 150 without sub. But you may find them a little lacking if you plan to do many 18th's. Sayimg that if you add a sub later than you can cover most eventualities.

[Cj_The_Dj]

How about this mate, if you have the room in the van:

http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/product_details.php?product=DAP%20AUDIO%20CLUBSHAD E%201000W%20RMS%20ACTIVE%20PA%20SYSTEM&id_prd=528

I'm using one of these at the moment. First time out with it last night and very impressed. I'm not about to say its HK good, but not far off. Official count at the door was 259 people in the end, and it <forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post>ed it.


Independent two way amp in each sub too, so if one goes down you can run both tops off the other sub amp.

Oh and remeber the DAP is made by the guys who were part of the HK team. Probably why they look so similar!

do they sell these tops on there own? i have subs. and i can hide them, so i was think for small venues i could leave my w-audio prs15a at home.

[christoph]

You can get the single 8's on their own, not sure about the twins.

I was using a pair of single 8's and one sub last night in an average function room, they were fine.

These:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-X-Dap-Audio-600W-Max-Full-Range-8-Speakers_W0QQitemZ230364206554QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item35a2c6d5da

[simply simon]

Cj - These have the amps built in to the subs, so have to be used as a set. They do sell an active 12" cab at about £500 a pair:
http://www.terralec.co.uk/dap_audio/dap_12_active_speaker/27885_p.html

So my shortlist is now the Mackie Thumps at £500, the DAP Clubshade at £600 or the DB Basic, also at £600. I'm undecided on the Behringer Eurolive B312D - the spec is good and at £600, its price is good. Has anyone tried these out?

[Cj_The_Dj]

You can get the single 8's on their own, not sure about the twins.

I was using a pair of single 8's and one sub last night in an average function room, they were fine.

These:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-X-Dap-Audio-600W-Max-Full-Range-8-Speakers_W0QQitemZ230364206554QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU K_ConElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item35a2c6d5da

The spl is "Peak SPL at 1 m: 113.8 dB" what sort of size venue could you do with these they would be run with a pair of 15" pd 600w rms bins


Cj - These have the amps built in to the subs, so have to be used as a set. They do sell an active 12" cab at about £500 a pair:
http://www.terralec.co.uk/dap_audio/dap_12_active_speaker/27885_p.html

So my shortlist is now the Mackie Thumps at £500, the DAP Clubshade at £600 or the DB Basic, also at £600. I'm undecided on the Behringer Eurolive B312D - the spec is good and at £600, its price is good. Has anyone tried these out?

I would use another amp so it be ok.

[DJMaxG]

It depends on what you want to cover, whether providing sound for the whole room or just the dancefloor.

One DJ reckons that the smaller the woofer, the larger coverage you will get, but that I'm slightly unsure of.

[christoph]

Post deleted by Admin.

Only a couple of days after people were reminded about changing characters in words to get around the censor, poster has done it.

No more amending of posts/clearing up after people, I'm afraid. If you try and get around the censor to use prohibited words in your post, you are breaking forum rules and your post will be deleted.

[christoph]

For my final post, heres that set up for you mate. Go for the daps, you'll be impressed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/kachris/daprig.jpg

[A1DL]

For my final post, heres that set up for you mate. Go for the daps, you'll be impressed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/kachris/daprig.jpg

It's a good idea to put both cabs at the same height, Christopher. ;)

[flatliners]

A1DL - I know that watts aren't everything, but all other things being equal (SPL, frequency range/response, sensitivity etc), the higher the RMS, the louder the system. It's a very basic comparison, but you have to start somewhere!

Christoph - I was seriously considering the DAP sytem already, so I reckon it's just gone to the top of the list! I use a people carrier, which used to take the RCF sub and gear without removing the seats, so I should be able to fit these in!

Flatliners - what are your thoughts on the Studio Spares units?

well i think they are made by the same company that made carlsbro i would say for the price you carnt go wrong i might get the sub as i have a gamma sub and they are near same specs

[DJMaxG]

So, which cabs did you go for, or are planning on buying?



well i think they are made by the same company that made carlsbro i would say for the price you carnt go wrong i might get the sub as i have a gamma sub and they are near same specs

Yep, as mentioned before, I have heard the Gamma 12" top cabs, and they sound pretty decent ;)