View Full Version : Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA)
Corabar Entertainment
08-02-2010, 09:25 PM
Just caught the last few seconds of Panorama this evening and they were discussing the new procedures that are being put in place to replace CRB checks.
From a very quick look (and I do mean quick... I haven't researched this in any depth), but it looks like it may / could apply to DJs.
There is a requirement for any person who is taking part is regulated activity to register with the ISA, and part of the definition of 'Regulated Activity' is "any activity of a specified nature that involves contact with children or vulnerable adults frequently, intensively and/or overnight. (Such activities include teaching, training, care, supervision, advice, treatment and transportation.)", or "any activity allowing contact with children or vulnerable adults that is in a specified place frequently or intensively. (Such places include schools and care homes.)
It goes on to say "'Regulated activity’ is when the activity is frequent (once a month or more) or ‘intensive’ (takes place on three or more days in a 30-day period)."
Now, I'm not saying that a DJ taking on kids parties does fall within this remit..... but it could. (I wouldn't like to say one way or the other with out further investigation).
My question is, has anybody looked into it is any great detail yet / actually made enquiries of the ISA? and, if so, what was the outcome?
Solitaire Events Ltd
08-02-2010, 09:43 PM
Now, I'm not saying that a DJ taking on kids parties does fall within this remit..... but it could. (I wouldn't like to say one way or the other with out further investigation).
Surely if it did, then it would only be applicable if the DJ/entertainer were left in sole charge of children?
Unless the ISA is completely different from CRB?
Corabar Entertainment
08-02-2010, 09:53 PM
It does appear to be very different: even "cleaners, caretakers, shop workers, catering staff, car park attendants and receptionists" are classed as conducting a 'controlled activity'!
From what I gathered looking quickly, anybody affected must register and pay a fee. It is an offence for anyone to conduct a controlled or regulated activity without registration. The registered person will then be given an ISA registration number. Anybody will then be able to apply for your record (with your permission - ie, you give them your registration number).... even domestic 'employers' (eg the parents of the kids)
It's whether or not the DJ is conducting a regulated activity is the question. If no-one has looked into this yet, I think I'll bounce an email off to the ISA for clarification.
If it does mean DJ's I refuse to register. How about dealing with those in society that are a danger and not treating us all like pedo's.
Sick of this heap of pants country.
Solitaire Events Ltd
08-02-2010, 10:01 PM
If it does mean DJ's I refuse to register. How about dealing with those in society that are a danger and not treating us all like pedo's.
That's a rather blinkered view. If it saves one child from perverts, then it's worth it.
CRAZY K
08-02-2010, 10:04 PM
It does appear to be very different: even "cleaners, caretakers, shop workers, catering staff, car park attendants and receptionists" are classed as conducting a 'controlled activity'!
From what I gathered looking quickly, anybody affected must register and pay a fee. It is an offence for anyone to conduct a controlled or regulated activity without registration. The registered person will then be given an ISA registration number. Anybody will then be able to apply for your record (with your permission - ie, you give them your registration number).... even domestic 'employers' (eg the parents of the kids)
It's whether or not the DJ is conducting a regulated activity is the question. If no-one has looked into this yet, I think I'll bounce an email off to the ISA for clarification.
I think Darren is right---it makes no sense if other adults are present:confused:
But then again this is the Madhouse called Britain :eek: :eek: :eek:
CRAZY K
rob1963
08-02-2010, 10:05 PM
If it does mean DJ's I refuse to register. How about dealing with those in society that are a danger and not treating us all like pedo's.
Sick of this heap of pants country.
I was thinking something similar.
I come into contact with more children walking down the street than I do at discos, so maybe I should register with the ISA so that I can walk down the street without breaking any laws!
:bang:
That's a rather blinkered view. If it saves one child from perverts, then it's worth it.
Darren - do you really think sanitising the whole nation at great cost is going to make a difference. They rehouse them in our communities and so that they don't lose track of them we all have to pay the price of being checked out.
As a civilised nation we don't want to face up to how to properly deal with them, so we have what we have. A system that doesn't work.
Corabar Entertainment
08-02-2010, 10:06 PM
The one advantage it seems to have over CRB is that it is ONE registration that anyone can access... as opposed to having to have CRB for every employer, every year.
PS: Can we try and keep this on topic and not take it off into a political discussion? Pretty please?
Solitaire Events Ltd
08-02-2010, 10:07 PM
Darren - do you really think sanitising the whole nation at great cost is going to make a difference.
Yes.
As I said, if it saves one child, then it is worth it.
Yes.
As I said, if it saves one child, then it is worth it.
Identity theft is one of the fastest growing crimes in this country. For a small cost I could buy a new identity (with the correct contacts). Someone could with the right documents buy a clean identity and walk a horse and cart through the system (the banks lose millions from it and they are more organised than government agencies). The worrying thing is as they had some clearance that nagging doubt called instinct might just be bypassed.
Stop rehousing them in our communities as rehabilitated!!!!!!
I mean they don't even know who's coming in and out of the country at flipping border control.
Solitaire Events Ltd
08-02-2010, 10:14 PM
No politics please.
No politics please.
Noted.
Edit - sorry if my response seems rather curt there, its just my usual professional protocol when a point is agreed - it is short for "that point is noted and agreed". Read it back and could be taken out of context.
Corabar Entertainment
08-02-2010, 10:44 PM
Anyway.....
My question is, has anybody looked into it is any great detail yet / actually made enquiries of the ISA? and, if so, what was the outcome?
It's whether or not the DJ is conducting a regulated activity is the question. If no-one has looked into this yet, I think I'll bounce an email off to the ISA for clarification.Just to let you know that I've bounced an email off to the appropriate body and had an automated reply saying I will receive a response within 5 working days.
I'll report back here when I've received the response. :)
Corabar Entertainment
09-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Well, the ISA have been exceptionally efficient and speedy with their response, and it's good news (only required if you visit the same specified place frequently:-
Thank you for your recent email.
Registration will only be required if you visit the same specified place on a frequent or intensive basis.
Specified places are - schools, adult care homes, children's care home, children's detention centre, childcare premises including nurseries, children's hospitals, children's centres.
Frequent - once a week or more
Intensive - 4 days in 1 month.
If this is not the case registration will not be required.
sleah
09-02-2010, 10:27 PM
I would also say there is a difference if a DJ is a children's entertainer or not.
One who is an entertainment is going to have closer contact with the children, as is the very nature of their job, than a DJ who just stands behind a console ....errrr DJing.
I know of a local children's balloon modeler(sp?) who is CRB'd through an umbrella company (sorry don't know any more than that) so I would expect someone who DJ's as part of their children's entertainment act to fall in the same category.
Does that make sense???
StarZSoundS
09-02-2010, 11:15 PM
Well, the ISA have been exceptionally efficient and speedy with their response, and it's good news (only required if you visit the same specified place frequently:-
I'm confused now....
Does the fact that we don't need the new licence also mean we don't have to be Police checked now.....legally??
DazzyD
10-02-2010, 12:59 AM
I'm confused now....
Does the fact that we don't need the new licence also mean we don't have to be Police checked now.....legally??
It's my understanding that DJs in general don't need to be CRB checked.
I could be wrong, though!
Corabar Entertainment
10-02-2010, 01:08 AM
ISA is replacing CRB.
There was no legal requirement for you to have CRB, and, unless you fall into the above criteria I've quoted, there will be no obligation on you to be ISA registered
Dynamic Entertainment
10-02-2010, 01:17 AM
ISA is NOT replacing CRB
ISA is intended to give a quick overview of prospective harm. Unlike CRB it does not provide detailed background infomation to the employer to ascertain previous convictions.
ISA is a a prior to full CRB, so to speak.
To go into a bit more depth, everyone who applies via the ISA will complete an application form. The ISA will forward the form to the CRB, who will then release that relevent info back to the ISA. It is ISA who will then make the informed choice whether to allow the applicant to work with children.
This vetting and descision making is called the VBS, vetting and barring scheme.
This is my area of expertise in my day job, and as i get more info ill keep you all updated.
Corabar Entertainment
10-02-2010, 02:14 AM
ISA is NOT replacing CRB
ISA is intended to give a quick overview of prospective harm. Unlike CRB it does not provide detailed background infomation to the employer to ascertain previous convictions.
ISA is a a prior to full CRB, so to speak.
To go into a bit more depth, everyone who applies via the ISA will complete an application form. The ISA will forward the form to the CRB, who will then release that relevent info back to the ISA. It is ISA who will then make the informed choice whether to allow the applicant to work with children.
This vetting and descision making is called the VBS, vetting and barring scheme.
This is my area of expertise in my day job, and as i get more info ill keep you all updated.
Great clarification there, and sorry for posting wrong info. I only briefly looked at the ISA website, and they were saying on there that those people who were currently in positions with CRB checks would slowly be moving over to ISA registration... which is why I made the assumption (obviously wrongly) that the ISA registration was replacing the CRB checks on the employment front.... again: apologies for getting it completely wrong and only reading PART of the info!
Dynamic Entertainment
10-02-2010, 11:08 AM
No worries. All the ISA is doing is taking the decision away from employers. A CRB comes back with every single conviction, driving and the lot, then (originally) the employer made the choice. As your aware, sometimes the employers choice was the wrong one, so the ISA is there to stanardise that choice across the board. :)
sleah
10-02-2010, 11:45 AM
Typical government department where it's so easy for people to missunderstand or not be able to fathom exactly what they are on about....:Laugh:
As Dynamic has explained, it's just anoth part of the Big Brother/Nanny state where government departments have control over everything.
Can we be 100% certain that they will make the right desicion on behalf of an employer, taking everything in to account?
I suspect it will go against anyone who has a conviction from long ago in their past who may be genuinely rehabilitated and has rebuilt their life. They may be stopped from certain jobs because of a piece of paper, rather than a subjective evaluation of the individual, which employers have a degree of control over now.
A real life example. I have a friend who had a Police warning when he was about 20 for sleeping with a Girl 2 weeks from her 16th birthday. This was NOT a result of a complaint by the girl, her parents or anyone else, it came to light during an investigation many months later.
He was young and daft, he's now been married, has a daughter, in a steady relationship and poses no danger whatsoever to vulnerable people.
I'd bet he would fail the ISA/CRB......
StarZSoundS
10-02-2010, 12:14 PM
No worries. All the ISA is doing is taking the decision away from employers. A CRB comes back with every single conviction, driving and the lot, then (originally) the employer made the choice. As your aware, sometimes the employers choice was the wrong one, so the ISA is there to stanardise that choice across the board. :)
Most importantly....what is the cost and procedure for obtaining one please.Even though I don't need one and have never been asked for any document relating to this it may be handy to have it in the 500/1 chance I get asked.....can put the cost against Tax I suppose!!;)
Dynamic Entertainment
10-02-2010, 01:36 PM
Typical government department where it's so easy for people to missunderstand or not be able to fathom exactly what they are on about....:Laugh:
As Dynamic has explained, it's just anoth part of the Big Brother/Nanny state where government departments have control over everything.
Can we be 100% certain that they will make the right desicion on behalf of an employer, taking everything in to account?
I suspect it will go against anyone who has a conviction from long ago in their past who may be genuinely rehabilitated and has rebuilt their life. They may be stopped from certain jobs because of a piece of paper, rather than a subjective evaluation of the individual, which employers have a degree of control over now.
A real life example. I have a friend who had a Police warning when he was about 20 for sleeping with a Girl 2 weeks from her 16th birthday. This was NOT a result of a complaint by the girl, her parents or anyone else, it came to light during an investigation many months later.
He was young and daft, he's now been married, has a daughter, in a steady relationship and poses no danger whatsoever to vulnerable people.
I'd bet he would fail the ISA/CRB......
1. ISA is not a government department. Its a non-departmental public body and as such is run by civil cervants. The home office, whilst it set it up, has no authority over it! Please try and get your facts straight before spouting off ;) :D
2. With regards to your friend. This is exactly why the ISA was established, to make informed decisions based on all available knowledge, so no he probably would not fail...and warnings/cautions do not usually stay on a permanant record anyway. Ive yet to come across a CRb which has a caution/warning active for longer than 6 years (and i deal with CRBs daily).
Most importantly....what is the cost and procedure for obtaining one please.Even though I don't need one and have never been asked for any document relating to this it may be handy to have it in the 500/1 chance I get asked.....can put the cost against Tax I suppose!!;)
You still need to go through an umbrella agency unfortunately as a private individual, first that springs to mind, and with a google check is Cloisters http://www.crbcloisters.co.uk/isa-checks-vbs/ and costs £64 :)
Corabar Entertainment
10-02-2010, 02:03 PM
You still need to go through an umbrella agency unfortunately as a private individualI got the impression that they haven't settled on all the details yet, but that you will be able to register direct once the scheme is up and running?
From the website regarding registration:-
Please note: ISA-registration for the Vetting and Barring Scheme does not start for new workers or those moving jobs until July 2010 and ISA-registration does not become mandatory for these workers until November 2010. All other staff will be phased into the scheme from 2011. Further information on how to apply for registration will be provided in due course.
ISA registration does not mean that we make your details available to the general public. Only employers will be able to access your information – and only after you give them your ISA Registration Number. Employers will only be able to check that you are in fact ISA-registered. Only ISA case workers and the police will have access to information we hold about you.
You can apply for registration through your employer if you have one, or if you are applying for a job, through your prospective employer. If you are self-employed – as a childminder, for example – you will need to apply yourself. You will be able to do this through the website as the ISA vetting service is phased in.
We will charge a small fee for applications to register with the ISA as an employee or self-employed worker. This fee covers our administration costs and you will only be asked to pay it once, no matter how many times you change jobs.
We do not charge volunteers for ISA applications.
Dynamic Entertainment
10-02-2010, 02:40 PM
Thats news to me Agela, ive just went through a whole bunch of training as the LGA i work for is to be an umbrella company.
If theyve changed the goal-posts again then there are thounsands of people/companies which have undergone training which needent have as we could just forward them on. Do you know when that the ISA website was last updated, becuase that sounds a lot like their original plan 6 months ago.
Leave it with me and ill do some digging :)
Corabar Entertainment
10-02-2010, 02:46 PM
No idea when that was put up / last updated... sorry. I've only just read a bit of it for the first time in the last few days.
HAPPY DIGGING! :D
sleah
10-02-2010, 04:11 PM
1. ISA is not a government department. Its a non-departmental public body and as such is run by civil cervants. The home office, whilst it set it up, has no authority over it! Please try and get your facts straight before spouting off ;) :D
Thanks for the clarification - I stand corrected:D Doesn't mean I'd trust them any more though:p:D
2. With regards to your friend. This is exactly why the ISA was established, to make informed decisions based on all available knowledge, so no he probably would not fail...and warnings/cautions do not usually stay on a permanant record anyway. Ive yet to come across a CRb which has a caution/warning active for longer than 6 years (and i deal with CRBs daily).
Potentially good news. I wasn't sure about the 6 year thing. Let's hope they do deal with checks in the way you describe.:)
Dynamic Entertainment
10-02-2010, 04:40 PM
Not sure if it is 6 years, but i aint seen any caution older than that...which is either strange or lucky on my part :)
CRAZY K
10-02-2010, 06:38 PM
Not sure if it is 6 years, but i aint seen any caution older than that...which is either strange or lucky on my part :)
Presumably this will be similar to Rehabilitation of Offenders Legislation and different convictions will have different periods of rehabilitation according to severity of the crime?
CRAZY K
simon1969
20-07-2010, 10:26 PM
The government has suspended this service until further notice!!!
Dynamic Entertainment
20-07-2010, 11:08 PM
The government has suspended this service until further notice!!!
Yes, but the regulations already introduced still stand!
yourdj
21-07-2010, 07:47 AM
god what next. they will have a social worker watching you when djing.
Honestly how many children have issues with adults if you know what i mean?
every kid is going to grow up paranoid that every adult will molest them.
Honestly how many children have issues with adults if you know what i mean?
A lot more than most people realise, as many go unreported. The vast majority of these abused kids are the victims of their own family, relatives, or friends of the family, and not by the peado hiding behind every lamp post. This is the area where the government should be concentrating their efforts at preventing it, but I suspect it would be too much of a political hot potatoe for it to happen any time soon.
Solitaire Events Ltd
21-07-2010, 12:12 PM
god what next. they will have a social worker watching you when djing.
Honestly how many children have issues with adults if you know what i mean?
every kid is going to grow up paranoid that every adult will molest them.
You spout rubbish at the best of times, but that has to be the best yet.
simon1969
22-07-2010, 09:27 AM
Yes, but the regulations already introduced still stand!
Yes true but no new applications will be accepted also no new C.R.B applications will be accepted until after september now.
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