Mackie v RCF sound off! [Archive] - Mobile Disco Directory Forum

Spirits High

11-02-2010, 09:37 PM

Don't know how many people caught a thread a little while back about Tony wanting to "hard test" his V2 Mackie 450's and also do a side by side comparison with my RCF 312a's.

Well tonight was that night, Tony had managed to "borrow" the George Stepenhson hall at the Newark Showground for a couple of hours and I met him there just after 7pm

The hall itself is more akin to an aircraft hanger and absolutely massive, so a perfect test ground :eek:

To make it a little more interesting I also took along my 2 705 subs and Tony brought along a couple of Carlsboro subs.

Now I know there are plenty of Mackie users on here but they were well and truly beaten. Not just on power (which was always going to happen) but sound quality. some of the bass was immense, Billie Jean was proper rumbling :D

I let Tony post some comments about the "test" but something tells me there may soon be some Mackie stuff in the for sale section ;)

Here's a couple of pics showing the PA and the size of the Hall.

Excalibur

11-02-2010, 09:47 PM

Hmmmmmm. One or two minor errors and omissions there, I feel. ;) The female type roller bladers may have distracted our Tone from his avowed intention, I fear. ;) Also, to be a true test, you really
should have had a control, a reference model, of unparalleled clarity and sound. ;) Sadly, I had three calls on myself and two on my gear tonight. :( :( In order of Northerliness : Tone and Pauls shootout, A local School Disco, and Curry and a pint with our friends in the frozen north. Nothin g for ages, and three come along at once. :bang: :bang:

PS: Paul, I forecast the result two days ago. ;) :D Hope you didn't upset him too much.

Charlie Brown

11-02-2010, 09:49 PM

Ah brilliant!

A few cables viable though and that white extension lead is a hazard. ;)

Excalibur

11-02-2010, 09:51 PM

Ah brilliant!

A few cables viable though and that white extension lead is a hazard. ;)

Err, no Charlie, the myriad ladies rollerblading in shorts and t-shirts were the greater hazard. ;) ;) :D

A1DL

11-02-2010, 09:57 PM

Hi Paul

what measurements were taken?
what tools did you use?
any graphs/numbers to publish?

looking at the photos, peculiar setup for a clash, normally one would place both systems being tested at equidistance apart and place the mid tops equidistance from the subs. If you are taking measurements at a central point x metres back, in that configuration your HF rolloff data will certainly be non comparable, even if the horizontal dispertion characteristics of the boxes are supposedly equal.

Tony

Spirits High

11-02-2010, 10:01 PM

Ah brilliant!

A few cables viable though and that white extension lead is a hazard. ;)

Don't worry Charlie, I informed Tony of the error of his ways with his VISIBLE cables :D :D

Err, no Charlie, the myriad ladies rollerblading in shorts and t-shirts were the greater hazard. ;) ;) :D

Were there ladies roller skating Peter? Must have missed that ;)

Hi Paul

what measurements were taken?
what tools did you use?
any graphs/numbers to publish?

looking at the photos, peculiar setup for a clash, normally one would place both systems being tested at equidistance apart and place the mid tops equidistance from the subs. If you are taking measurements at a central point x metres back, in that configuration your HF rolloff data will certainly be non comparable, even if the horizontal dispertion characteristics of the boxes are supposedly equal.

Tony

Well , wasn't I just waiting for that :D

Measurements were loundness , crispness of top end and lowness of bass

Tools used were Tonys ears, my ears and around 50 female rollerskaters :p ;)

Ok, Tony this wasn't a technical experiment with sound meters etc. More of a side by side comparison for the naked ear.

Sapphire Disco

11-02-2010, 10:08 PM

As far as I can see you have the RCF tops with Carlsboro subs are you saying that was a better sound than the Mackie tops with RCF subs ?

Spirits High

11-02-2010, 10:09 PM

As far as I can see you have the RCF tops with Carlsboro subs are you saying that was a better sound than the Mackie tops with RCF subs ?

RCF tops defo on RCF subs!

IMO the RCF combo sounded better.

Penfold42

11-02-2010, 10:10 PM

Testing these was really good.

Started with the Mackies and a few tips from Paul regarding mixer and sound....:o off we went. Thanks Paul :)

Mackies did produce a fair punch and sounded very nice - anyone would be happy to hear/have that as a play out. Nice bass but mids still a tad harsh....like a hiss...but still very good. No overheating in fact the bass bins were hotter than the Mackies. :eek:

Well.....RCF....total different...so clear and warm/deep and this was just the tops ..... :eek: Flick the Bass well what can you say coming from 2 bins, it was superb but not over the top.

So now what to do....

Seriously thinking of selling everything and moving to RCF. I have a final test in 2 weeks time with my leg slappers....i'll make my choice then.

BTW thanks Paul. :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

Hi Paul

what measurements were taken?
what tools did you use?
any graphs/numbers to publish?

looking at the photos, peculiar setup for a clash, normally one would place both systems being tested at equidistance apart and place the mid tops equidistance from the subs. If you are taking measurements at a central point x metres back, in that configuration your HF rolloff data will certainly be non comparable, even if the horizontal dispertion characteristics of the boxes are supposedly equal.

Tony

Hi Tony,
This was purely checking - as Paul said - with our peepers....simple as.
Is it not what you listen to and how things sound that makes you change and work with different systems....?

I can use this venue again - or another one. If you have a list of requirements that you would feel would help in anyway then feel free to let me know and i'm sure Paul and I can do these. I have the use of sound meters at work - as we test db for testing silencers.

As i'm a novice to sound any help would be helpful. :)

Spirits High

11-02-2010, 10:15 PM

Started with the Mackies and a few tips from Paul regarding mixer and sound....:o off we went. Thanks Paul :)

BTW thanks Paul. :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

No drama geezer, always willing to help out (nothing to do with wanting a lift to NADJ of course) ;)

Penfold42

11-02-2010, 10:44 PM

FB comment - The girls loved it. :D

Dynamic Entertainment

11-02-2010, 10:49 PM

Im glad I made the right choice when i bought my system then ;) :D

Penfold42

11-02-2010, 10:53 PM

Im glad I made the right choice when i bought my system then ;) :D

There is no right or wrong system. It's all down to what you are happy with.
IMO

flatliners

11-02-2010, 11:28 PM

Testing these was really good.

Seriously thinking of selling everything and moving to RCF. I have a final test in 2 weeks time with my leg slappers....i'll make my choice then

go on my son you know you want to

spin mobile disco

12-02-2010, 12:09 AM

Have to mention though that the rcf subs are not on the same level as mackie subs so it would not have been a balanced test using calsboro . Did you try the mackie tops with the rcf subs?

DJMaxG

12-02-2010, 01:05 AM

You were using Carlsbro Subs, and it could have been a fairer test if only the top cabs were testing alone.

Excalibur

12-02-2010, 07:18 AM

I'm assuming all tops were 12"? :confused: I've heard Twinspin's 12" RCF's on their own, and they do have an amazing amount of bass.

Will have to try very hard to get myself and some kit to the next one, it's always informative to hear kit running side by side like this, even if there are no scientific measurements taken. ( Sorry Tony. :( :o :o )

Spirits High

12-02-2010, 07:51 AM

You were using Carlsbro Subs, and it could have been a fairer test if only the top cabs were testing alone.

Were we we Max, I didn't notice :p :D

Yes, the tops were tested on their own. IMO better sound was RCF

djdave01

12-02-2010, 10:23 AM

Excalibur

12-02-2010, 11:17 AM

Im considering getting a set of 12" active speakers. All i want to know is, whats better, RCF ART312A's or Mackie SRM450 V2's?
I wont be running them with subs, they'll just be used for my weekly karaoke or kids parties. I'll keep my HK system for proper gigs.

Dave

Listen to both, as it is as we always say, subjective and personal, but I'd guess Most folk on here to vote for RCF.

Shaun

12-02-2010, 11:44 AM

Im considering getting a set of 12" active speakers. All i want to know is, whats better, RCF ART312A's or Mackie SRM450 V2's?

I wont be running them with subs, they'll just be used for my weekly karaoke or kids parties. I'll keep my HK system for proper gigs.

Dave

I have ART 715'S and 450 v1's. Just give me a shout if you'd like to hear a side by side comparison

djdave01

12-02-2010, 04:13 PM

I have ART 715'S and 450 v1's. Just give me a shout if you'd like to hear a side by side comparison

Hi Shaun

Might be a good idea, also happy to go with people's opinions.

Will be a few weeks before i can get a set, but i'll get in touch soon for a demo if your happy to do that.

Cheers

Shaun

12-02-2010, 04:16 PM

but i'll get in touch soon for a demo if your happy to do that.

Cheers

Yep, no problem.

Twinspin

12-02-2010, 05:11 PM

Nice One i bet that was fun. Nice move as well Tony. Cost a bit more than the Mackies but theyre worth it.

If we arrange a meetup at some point. If ive got something on in Sutton Fields one night it would be another goood opportunity to hear them in their intended application.

RCF are brilliant and im extremely happy with my system. I heard the Mackie SRM450 v2 at Electromusic in doncaster and they are better than the v1. Personal preference.

The RCF's even over the v2.

DJMaxG

12-02-2010, 05:33 PM

An Interesting test to complete would be to compare the 3 or 5 series to the 7 series of RCF Art.

Spirits High

12-02-2010, 05:36 PM

An Interesting test to complete would be to compare the 3 or 5 series to the 7 series of RCF Art.

But your neighbours would complain Max :D

Believe me last night was very interesting ;)

Excalibur

12-02-2010, 05:53 PM

But your neighbours would complain Max :D

Believe me last night was very interesting ;)

Enough about the Rollerbladers, already!! :D :D As I enquired before, were/are all tops 12"?

Spirits High

12-02-2010, 06:34 PM

Enough about the Rollerbladers, already!! :D :D As I enquired before, were/are all tops 12"?

Yep, Tony had his 450v2's and I was running my 312a's ;)

Twinspin

12-02-2010, 07:45 PM

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/HPIM0191.jpg

Never test a PA system in the house Unless your planning on giving your neighbours a BEAST IN!!!.

following the system been cranked up... the panrack fell over behind...!! and the eggs landed on the floor all cracked.

What a nice way to test a new ART705 :D :p

DJMaxG

12-02-2010, 07:49 PM

Twinspin, Do you still have the Mackies, and what do you currently use for backup?

Twinspin

12-02-2010, 08:06 PM

Dont have the mackies anymore. I sold them. (photo from 2007)

RCF 322A tops as my main tops and previously i had 312a's which are my backup cabs.

DeckstarDeluxe

12-02-2010, 08:13 PM

ah cant beat some peaveys :D

Did some of you guys have a speaker demo after bpm last year??

Twinspin

12-02-2010, 08:24 PM

Ive had a few pairs of Peaveys.... No i didnt blow them up incase anyone asks. :D :p tbh i thought they were alright. i found some photos from when i used peavey (and a horrible twinspin banner.....urghhhhhh!!!) SPOT THE LIGHTSCREENS AND FUZZ LIGHTS :D :D :p :p

Eurosys 3's (back in the day) http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/02-1.jpg

Peavey Impulse 1012's (BWX Driver 700w RMS) VERY LOUD CABS!

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/DSCF0132.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l264/Twinspindj/gallery1.jpg

not a patch on the RCF's though unfortunately :D :D :p :p

CRAZY K

12-02-2010, 09:08 PM

OllieJames

12-02-2010, 09:08 PM

Love the banners, John!

Penfold42

12-02-2010, 09:11 PM

:eek:
Love the banners, John!

OllieJames

12-02-2010, 09:15 PM

Love the banners, John!

:eek:

Hahaha! I'm joking ;) :D

Corabar Steve

13-02-2010, 01:48 AM

Shaun

13-02-2010, 09:55 AM

I have ART 715'S and 450 v1's. Just give me a shout if you'd like to hear a side by side comparison

Come to think of it, it's hardly a fair side by side comparison. The RCF are 15" and the mackies are 12". You're still welcome to hear them though.

Penfold42

13-02-2010, 02:05 PM

May not be RCF's after all....been hearing these babies...

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=12225

:cool:

DJMaxG

13-02-2010, 02:34 PM

OK I give up. Try as I might I can't see the fuzz lights.

On top of the speakers, perhaps.

Corabar Entertainment

13-02-2010, 03:28 PM

On top of the speakers, perhaps.Would those be them magical invisible fuzz lights of myth and legend?

Penfold42

13-02-2010, 03:34 PM

Would those be them magical invisible fuzz lights of myth and legend?
Shhhh... dont tell everyone! :D

DJMaxG

13-02-2010, 03:40 PM

Would those be them magical invisible fuzz lights of myth and legend?

The side of the left cabinet is obstructed by a balloon, the right one is off shot, fuzz lights generally have a clear capsule, and it was dark conditions.

Corabar Entertainment

13-02-2010, 03:46 PM

The side of the left cabinet is obstructed by a balloon, Agreed, but not by enough to hide a fuzz light (unless it's defying gravity on the side of the speaker)
...the right one is off shot, :confused: No it isn't :confused:
fuzz lights generally have a clear capsule, and it was dark conditions.:zip:
Shhhh... dont tell everyone! :DDid you have some of them then Tony? :D :D

DJMaxG

13-02-2010, 03:47 PM

Agreed :confused: No it isn't :confused: :zip:

'off shot' as in the top of it is touching the frame.

Corabar Entertainment

13-02-2010, 03:51 PM

'off shot' as in the top of it is touching the frame.No, it isn't.

(Should've gone to specsavers! :lol:)

DJMaxG

13-02-2010, 04:10 PM

No, it isn't.

(Should've gone to specsavers! :lol:)

:rofl:

Excalibur

13-02-2010, 04:18 PM

Are they under the chairs? :confused: It's better than " Where's Wally", this game. :D :D

Tom

13-02-2010, 07:12 PM

The RCF subs will be louder because of the type of cab it is. As it's a bandpass cab, this will give out more spl and also more punch which you would feel in your chest, giving you that "it's much louder" feeling, even though it will have slightly more spl.

Reflex over Bandpass imo. :)

The Carlsbro sub will give a more rounder sound due to the reflex style.

As for the harshness on thew Mackies, I worked it out it was around the 3.15khz if I remember. Lower that by 1 or 2 db with a Q of around 1 or 2 again and that will improve the sound. This can be used with the V1's but maybe a little more as they are slightly more harsh than the V2's

Twinspin

14-02-2010, 01:02 AM

We had a blast of the RCF's again tonight. Very good sound as usual.

djsteve10

14-02-2010, 01:09 AM

We had a blast of the RCF's again tonight. Very good sound as usual.

Tottaly agree, Got a pair of RCF 310A on the shopping list now.

Goodbye Mackie toasters :D:D

Corabar Steve

14-02-2010, 01:22 AM

Nope, still can't see 'em :sj:

Come on John, where are they?

Twinspin

14-02-2010, 07:25 AM

It was a joke.. LOL :p :D I used to have ropelights tho

flatliners

14-02-2010, 02:37 PM

now everyone is starting to realise how good the rcf speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 04:36 PM

now everyone is starting to realise how good the rcf speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them

All in good fun though.....:D

DJMaxG

14-02-2010, 04:39 PM

The RCFs are 'industry standard' according to HTFR, and quite a few forum members seem to have them.

They cost more than the Mackie SRMs anyway.

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 04:49 PM

The RCFs are 'industry standard' according to HTFR, and quite a few forum members seem to have them.

They cost more than the Mackie SRMs anyway.

Bizzare - I was in a hotel at Christmas and all 3 function rooms were running Mackies....? :confused:

Shaun

14-02-2010, 04:55 PM

I still have an old pair of el cheapo JB SYSTEMS dual 15" speakers. I couldn't tell you the spl, but from an audible point of view I think they sound better than my RCF's or my Mackies.

'Industry Standard' or 'more expensive' doesn't always mean better. Sound preference is a very personal thing.

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 04:57 PM

'Industry Standard' or 'more expensive' doesn't always mean better. Sound preference is a very personal thing.

:agree:

I also like to think my customers like that choice as well. :)

DJMaxG

14-02-2010, 05:02 PM

Bizzare - I was in a hotel at Christmas and all 3 function rooms were running Mackies....? :confused:

Same model? That must have been a coinsidence. :eek:

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 05:08 PM

Same model? That must have been a coinsidence. :eek:

Same model, Mackie 450 active. Not a coinsidence.....just some operators / people offer quality sound to customers along with the DJ's.

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 05:16 PM

now everyone is starting to realise how good the rcf speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them

Nearly right. ;)

now everyone is starting to realise how good the C****-D speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them. :sofa: :sofa:

A1DL

14-02-2010, 05:19 PM

The RCFs are 'industry standard' according to HTFR,

That sounds like marketing speak and taking a little licence IMHO

Definitions of "industry standard" include "generally accepted requirements followed by members of an industry", "universally accepted and widely used" and "an established norm or requirement".

Within the mobile disco industry, if there is any industry standard when it comes to loudspeakers (and I don't believe there is), I'd be inclined to agree with Tony, in that the Mackie SRM450 was a lot closer to that claim than any other powered speaker, simply because there are so many more of them around, as has already been intimated.

To compare with a couple of examples of kit that does fit the above descriptions:

The SL1200/1210 Turntable - where there are still vinyl decks, they will be SLs. They've been around 30 odd years, others (most notably Vestax) tried to compete, but certainly in terms of market penetration, failed. That much of an industry standard, one is surprised (shocked) to find any substitute.

The SM58 Microphone - undisputedly the most famous microhone in the world. Again, been around over 25 years and has earned its stripes. Not the best sounding mic in the box, but the one most people will ask for.

I have purposely not listed the CDJ1000, as within mobile disco there is no industry standard CD player, instead many people using many different players. It is important to remember that "industry standard" is about universal acceptance and being the norm, neither of which mean a product is the best, nor the most expensive in its class.

I'm not sure that within the Mobile Disco Industry whether there are in fact that many industry standards, as there is so much choice and so many manufacturers with their various incarnations of similar/same but different badge product. Within pro audio, things are a little more defined.

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 05:19 PM

Nearly right. ;)

now everyone is starting to realise how good the C****-D speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them. :sofa: :sofa:

Find your own thread - can you not read Mackie Vs RCF....no other cab in here please. :p :p :p :D :D :D :D :D :D

A1DL

14-02-2010, 05:24 PM

Find your own thread - can you not read Class D Vs Soundlab Red/Blue....no other cab in here please. :p :p :p :D :D :D :D :D :D

:riceandrob: :sofa:

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 05:25 PM

:lol:

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 05:27 PM

Find your own thread - can you not read Mackie Vs RCF....no other cab in here please. :p :p :p :D :D :D :D :D :D

May not be RCF's after all....been hearing these babies...
http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=12225

:cool:
Do as I say, not as I do? :confused: :p :p :p :p :D :D :D

:riceandrob: :sofa:
He doesn't worry me mate. I can take him. ;) :boxer2:

Corabar Steve

14-02-2010, 08:35 PM

now everyone is starting to realise how good the rcf speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them
It was every other post though.

DJMaxG

14-02-2010, 09:00 PM

It was every other post though.

:Laugh: :lol: :corabarsteve:

Twinspin

14-02-2010, 09:36 PM

can we remove M****** from the allowed to talk about list too

:ner: :ner: :boxer2: either that or... censor the word

:sofa:

DJMaxG

14-02-2010, 09:50 PM

censor the word

<forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post><forum censor activated - please edit your post> :approve:

jc light and sound

14-02-2010, 10:41 PM

Nearly right. ;)

now everyone is starting to realise how good the C****-D speakers are i remember when people started harping on at me for mentioning them. :sofa: :sofa:

If your hard of hearing;)

spin mobile disco

14-02-2010, 11:16 PM

I think the class D sound nice but simply do not have the volume of the other speakers but that is the same as peavey speakers. They sound very nice but cannot match the higher spl speakers.
Im sure that rcf are nice and I agree they are a good brand. But for the money saved going to another brand the difference can be huge. I think we all agree to disagree as we are all different and have different needs in our business. Some do larger venues a lot some small all the time etc. Some play a lot of RnB and some play a lot of 60's or rock and roll. Different speakers are different for these reasons. Otherwise the manafacturers would only have 1 speaker model each.