12" or 15" tops. [Archive] - Mobile Disco Directory Forum

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 06:04 PM

Which is best?

Heard some very nice 15" on Saturday - db Opera system which I am seriously given this some thought.

What's the pro and cons?

Thanks.

I put a treatise on this in the Gallery earlier. :p :D :D Right, pin back your monitors.

Question time.
1)How often will you do karaoke?
2) How often will they be used for speeches at a wedding or otherwise? 3) How often will you use the tops on their own?

Answer "Never" to 1), "rarely" to 2), and "regularly" to 3), and you need15" cabs.

Reverse those answers, and you need 12". That's a gross oversimplification, and by no means the whole answer, for instance just to muddy the waters, I recently heard Twinspin's 12" RCF's on their own, and they had no shortage of Bass at all. Sounded lovely.

Many many years ago, I was purchasing a set of Peaveys, and asked the shop owner his opinion on the 12"/15" Issue. I said I wanted subs, but couldn't afford to buy them with the tops. He said if I got 15" tops, I'd never buy subs. ;) Nearly true, it took me over twenty years to buy the subs. :D :D

spin mobile disco

14-02-2010, 06:08 PM

I use the 12" version by themselves for up to 100 people with no sub with no problems. I havent heard the 405's but I have been told they sound the same i.e same bass level. Can't confirm that myself just whatI was told.
If you are used to the sound of 15" speakers I would say stay with them. If you are not bothered then get the 12" as you can always add a sub later if needed.

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 06:35 PM

This one looks quite nice. Active too, so no need for those heavy and cumbersome amps.
http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/product_details.php?product=DAP%20SOUNDMATE%203%20 MKII%203600W%20ACTIVE%20PA%20SYSTEM&id_prd=235

Seriously, I really like the looks of this rig.
http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/product_details.php?product=HK%20AUDIO%20ACTOR%20D X%203200W%20ACTIVE%20PA%20SYSTEM&id_prd=156

Funny really, since I don't like active rigs. :confused: :confused:

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 06:39 PM

Ta Peter on the previous post - these are what i'm looking at.
http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=12225
These should cover all gigs.

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 06:46 PM

Ta Peter on the previous post - these are what i'm looking at.
http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=12225
These should cover all gigs.

Hmmmmmmmm. £3.5K, and no poles!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Tight gits.

£800 cheaper, two boxes more, and no need for poles. Still think this:
http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/product_details.php?product=DAP%20SOUNDMATE%203%20 MKII%203600W%20ACTIVE%20PA%20SYSTEM&id_prd=235
merits making it onto the shortlist.

Consider also:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/5kw_pa-system.html
minus Louise. :( :(

Penfold42

14-02-2010, 06:49 PM

Hmmmmmmmm. £3.5K, and no poles!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Tight gits.

£800 cheaper, two boxes more, and no need for poles. Still think this:
http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/product_details.php?product=DAP%20SOUNDMATE%203%20 MKII%203600W%20ACTIVE%20PA%20SYSTEM&id_prd=235
merits making it onto the shortlist.

Consider also:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/5kw_pa-system.html
minus Louise. :( :(

You forget - I would have to buy a van. :(

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 06:56 PM

You forget - I would have to buy a van. :(

No probs. ;)

ppentertainments

14-02-2010, 07:04 PM

Consider also:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/5kw_pa-system.html
minus Louise. :( :(
Would like to see the person who lifted those 15" speakers up there.

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 07:11 PM

Pair of these
http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR270685
two pairs of these
http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR251052
£1000 left in your pocket. Upgrade the subs to these
http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR226369
and you're a fiver cheaper than your rig.

Still looking mate, I'll find you the best rig if it's the last thing I do. :D :D

OllieJames

14-02-2010, 07:21 PM

I use Mackie SRM450s which are 12". I find that when I use them on their own (with no subs) they have plenty of bass for smaller rooms/audiences. With subs they sound great, but due to having potentially harsh mids, I EQ them via my Mackie desk. Then they sound lush ;)

Cj_The_Dj

14-02-2010, 07:28 PM

Run with this... (I Really like the bose 802 stacked like this)

Cj_The_Dj

14-02-2010, 07:28 PM

and for large venues this..

A1DL

14-02-2010, 07:31 PM

Consider also:
http://www.classd.ltd.uk/5kw_pa-system.html
minus Louise. :( :(

I quote from the above link: "Must be heard to be believed an amazing 5 KW of Awesome power. All this System for 48pence per watt!!!!!!!"

Peter, you're close to the class d mob - how about gently informing whomever writes their web content that you can't hear watts & kilowatts ;)

A1DL

14-02-2010, 07:34 PM

No probs. ;)

An early 508 if I'm not mistaken.
Is it downrated to 3.5, Peter?

ppentertainments

14-02-2010, 07:37 PM

OllieJames

14-02-2010, 07:43 PM

They have never claimed that you can hear watts and kilowatts though :confused:

Must be heard to be believed an amazing 5 KW of Awesome power

;)

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 07:44 PM

I quote from the above link: "Must be heard to be believed an amazing 5 KW of Awesome power. All this System for 48pence per watt!!!!!!!"

Peter, you're close to the class d mob - how about gently informing whomever writes their web content that you can't hear watts & kilowatts ;)

Tony, I wouldn't ever set any store by anything they say on their website. :D :D It's all :BS: I've never bought any of their cabs on the strength of their Purple Prose. :D :D :D :D :D

I've got to take you in there one day on an undercover mission. Laugh a miute. ;) ;) :D :D :D :D

An early 508 if I'm not mistaken.
Is it downrated to 3.5, Peter?
Dunno, but I downsized it to 640 Pixels if that helps. :confused: :D :D

ppentertainments

14-02-2010, 07:44 PM

;)
Could that not be 2 seperate statements ???

A1DL

14-02-2010, 07:45 PM

Run with this... (I Really like the bose 802 stacked like this)

really? :confused:

I guess you're liking it with your eyes and not your ears, CJ.

The 802 has 120deg. horizontal dispertion, therefore that example of rigging is quite frankly ridiculous.

As are the 302s with the "Nigeltronic® mobility downgrade" (wheels on the bottoms)

OllieJames

14-02-2010, 07:46 PM

Could that not be 2 seperate statements ???

It could be, but due to the lack of punctuation - who knows! :D

ppentertainments

14-02-2010, 07:48 PM

It could be, but due to the lack of punctuation - who knows! :D

Exactly, and since 99.9% of people relate watts to loudness a good play on words maybe ;)

OllieJames

14-02-2010, 07:49 PM

Exactly, and since 99.9% of people relate watts to loudness a good play on words maybe ;)

Yet incorrect, as i'm sure Tony will post about ;) :D

Cj_The_Dj

14-02-2010, 07:50 PM

really? :confused:

I guess you're liking it with your eyes and not your ears, CJ.

The 802 has 120deg. horizontal dispertion, therefore that example of rigging is quite frankly ridiculous.

As are the 302s with the "Nigeltronic® mobility downgrade" (wheels on the bottoms)

I only like the 1st one lol...

As You alot about P.Aa and so on.. could you help me...

Im after a small pair of speakers with quite a big coverage. for no more than 500.00 Idealy somthing I can fly for small gigs...

A1DL

14-02-2010, 08:02 PM

Im after a small pair of speakers with quite a big coverage. for no more than 500.00 Idealy somthing I can fly for small gigs...

OK, a few questions first though...

- define "small"
- define "big coverage"
- define "fly"
- what will be going through them?

I'm hoping that the "500.00" bit isn't a total project budget in GBP, because depending on your definition of flying, you can expect to spend that and some for just the rigging alone.

Whilst there are small speakers available that perform way beyond what one may expect of their size (think wolf in lamb's clothing), they generally come at a premium price.

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 08:04 PM

Whilst there are small speakers available that perform way beyond what one may expect of their size (think wolf in lamb's clothing), they generally come at a premium price.

£750 plus rigging. Not too bad. I know Adam F raves about these.

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR251052

Cj_The_Dj

14-02-2010, 08:11 PM

OK, a few questions first though...

- define "small"
- define "big coverage"
- define "fly"
- what will be going through them?

I'm hoping that the "500.00" bit isn't a total project budget in GBP, because depending on your definition of flying, you can expect to spend that and some for just the rigging alone.

Whilst there are small speakers available that perform way beyond what one may expect of their size (think wolf in lamb's clothing), they generally come at a premium price.

- define "small" - small Cab like the 802s.
- define "big coverage" - somthing that has enough power, spl etc to fill a room say 80 people. (i do have a pair of PD 156 bass bins)
- define "fly" - being able to hang from lighting truss.

I been offerd a pair of 802s mk1 with contoller thats why ive considerd these. for £325.00

A1DL

14-02-2010, 08:13 PM

£750 plus rigging. Not too bad. I know Adam F raves about these.

http://www.htfr.com/more-info/MR251052

Never heard them Peter, but if Adam says they're good then fair play.

However the spec on that link omits the three first pieces of data I look for on a spec sheet, i.e.

- How loud they play
- How low they play
- Their H & V dispertion angles

Excalibur

14-02-2010, 08:17 PM

Never heard them Peter, but if Adam says they're good then fair play.

However the spec on that link omits the three first pieces of data I look for on a spec sheet, i.e.

- How loud they play
- How low they play
- Their H & V dispertion angles

Ask and ye shall receive. :D :D

Not quite as impressive specs as I'd expected.
http://www.cerwin-vega.com/manuals/Pro/CVA-28_spec.pdf

- define "small" - small Cab like the 802s.
- define "big coverage" - somthing that has enough power, spl etc to fill a room say 80 people. (i do have a pair of PD 156 bass bins)
- define "fly" - being able to hang from lighting truss.

I been offerd a pair of 802s mk1 with contoller thats why ive considerd these. for £325.00
Wouldn't be my first choice, but I'm no Bose expert.

CRAZY K

14-02-2010, 08:23 PM

Which is best?

Heard some very nice 15" on Saturday - db Opera system which I am seriously given this some thought.

What's the pro and cons?

Thanks.

Well here goes--see if Tony A1 reacts--;)

I BELIEVE the answer to be that 12inch speakers being smaller than 15inch can move more quickly therefore for high and mid frequencies the optimum sound would be 12 inch especially if used with subs all the time.

15s move slower so therefore are not so responsive and better used for applications where subs are not needed because a bit more power and bassend is available when comparing same make BOXES:D perhaps carrying/ weight /space is an issue.

Peter said all this--he just didnt explain the technical reason--which probably doesnt matter but I suppose someones got to point this out.

Personally I believe size is important Tony --what about you ;)

:Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh: :Laugh:

CRAZY K

A1DL

14-02-2010, 08:28 PM

- define "small" - small Cab like the 802s.
- define "big coverage" - somthing that has enough power, spl etc to fill a room say 80 people. (i do have a pair of PD 156 bass bins)
- define "fly" - beable to hang from lighting truss.

I been offerd a pair of 802s mk1 with contoller thats why ive considerd these. for £325.00

If they are in good condition (all drivers working) and you're getting the 802C processor for £325.00 then, what are you waiting for? If you don't like them, you'd be able to ebay that little lot at a profit.

The 802 is not an efficient box (91dB 1w/1m) so 113dB ish max assuming a little power compression. However as previously mentioned they do have very wide horizontal dispertion and a pair would be good for those numbers in most rooms for moderate levels, and used with an LMS and the PD156s underneath would see you OK for dance music levels at a small party. What type of boxes are your PD156s in? If they're not reflex, then you'll want to delay the 802s to them.

Powerdrive do a nice flying frame for the 802 which will be better suited to your needs than the Bose SB8 bracket which needs additional hardware to complete the rigging.
http://www.mypowerdrive.com/asp/catalogue/products.asp?linkid=53&prodcode=FYB%20802

Hope this helps

Tony

Cj_The_Dj

15-02-2010, 10:00 PM

If they are in good condition (all drivers working) and you're getting the 802C processor for £325.00 then, what are you waiting for? If you don't like them, you'd be able to ebay that little lot at a profit.

The 802 is not an efficient box (91dB 1w/1m) so 113dB ish max assuming a little power compression. However as previously mentioned they do have very wide horizontal dispertion and a pair would be good for those numbers in most rooms for moderate levels, and used with an LMS and the PD156s underneath would see you OK for dance music levels at a small party. What type of boxes are your PD156s in? If they're not reflex, then you'll want to delay the 802s to them.

Powerdrive do a nice flying frame for the 802 which will be better suited to your needs than the Bose SB8 bracket which needs additional hardware to complete the rigging.
http://www.mypowerdrive.com/asp/catalogue/products.asp?linkid=53&prodcode=FYB%20802

Hope this helps

Tony

I have given a deposit on these.. paying rest on the 28th. these are them.. also i like the look at these frames.

rob1963

15-02-2010, 10:05 PM

Out of interest, and sorry for going slightly off topic, but how long has the Bose 802 been around?

I'm fairly sure they were installed in the pub where I started a residency more than 25 years ago!

:eek:

Excalibur

15-02-2010, 10:09 PM

A1DL

15-02-2010, 10:17 PM

rob1963

15-02-2010, 11:00 PM

not sure exactly Rob, but I believe the Mk1 was launched in 1978/79.

Whoaaaa...even earlier than I thought.

Thanks Tony!

Cj_The_Dj

16-02-2010, 11:51 AM

I have given a deposit on these.. paying rest on the 28th. these are them.. also i like the look at these frames.

i forgot to say the drivers are in a pair of peavey bass cabs. was like this when i got them.

NKR

16-02-2010, 12:41 PM

I have given a deposit on these.. paying rest on the 28th. these are them.. also i like the look at these frames.

Ahh 802's. I Sent five of them to their grave in my first club.

Mismatched amp and speaker set up - that's my excuse and I am sticking to it.

Nothing to do with a mismatched knowledge!

WWDJ

16-02-2010, 03:35 PM

I put a treatise on this in the Gallery earlier. :p :D :D Right, pin back your monitors.

Question time.
1)How often will you do karaoke?
2) How often will they be used for speeches at a wedding or otherwise? 3) How often will you use the tops on their own?

Answer "Never" to 1), "rarely" to 2), and "regularly" to 3), and you need15" cabs.

Reverse those answers, and you need 12". That's a gross oversimplification, and by no means the whole answer, for instance just to muddy the waters, I recently heard Twinspin's 12" RCF's on their own, and they had no shortage of Bass at all. Sounded lovely.

Many many years ago, I was purchasing a set of Peaveys, and asked the shop owner his opinion on the 12"/15" Issue. I said I wanted subs, but couldn't afford to buy them with the tops. He said if I got 15" tops, I'd never buy subs. ;) Nearly true, it took me over twenty years to buy the subs. :D :D

See that's i would love, a set of 12s that play like 15s .... It's one of the reasons why i haven't used my SRM450s since i got my w-audio prs15a's. The SRM450's dont even come close on bass response and i need to use a sub ... it's just the sub is too darn heavy and takes up too much of the car.

Tony, why don't you just go for the RCF725A (or even the 722A) with a 905AS sub for the bigger parties ? That should cover most occasions up to 200 people quite easily. it's less boxes and less than £3.5k.

sweetie

16-02-2010, 09:01 PM

See that's i would love, a set of 12s that play like 15s .... It's one of the reasons why i haven't used my SRM450s since i got my w-audio prs15a's. The SRM450's dont even come close on bass response and i need to use a sub ... it's just the sub is too darn heavy and takes up too much of the car.

Tony, why don't you just go for the RCF725A (or even the 722A) with a 905AS sub for the bigger parties ? That should cover most occasions up to 200 people quite easily. it's less boxes and less than £3.5k.

or get the QSC K12s and Hpr151i like me!
cost was approx 2k

ppentertainments

16-02-2010, 09:23 PM

or get the QSC K12s and Hpr151i like me!
cost was approx 2k

Little bit more than that surely - unless you got a bargain :)

Danno13

16-02-2010, 09:55 PM

Is that an ex.VAT price? I could do K12s at £700 each, and the KSub (which I think superceeds the HPR151) at £950 all inc. VAT and thats cheaper than any retailer I can find :D

paulg

17-02-2010, 10:57 AM

one of our Dj's uses the 15 inch opera's along with two db sub 15D's. It sounds pretty good to me although the 18 inch subs would seem better matched to the 15 inch tops to me. Looks nice too!

I use the RCF 722a's with the Db sub 15D's - the RCF cost a lot more than the 15 inch db tops but there's not much to pick and choose in terms of performance. I think though that the bottom end of the DB Opera's is not as good as the 12" RCF's - the data sheets seem to back this up. So, 15" opera's would seem to be the right and most economical choice.

sweetie

17-02-2010, 12:46 PM

That's vat inclusive from a dealer in Dublin who imports direct from QSC/Shure Uk. Yes, the Ksub supersedes the hpr151i but it's not as good and I haven't the room for 2 Ksubs so went with the heavier hpr.

Cj_The_Dj

06-03-2010, 08:28 PM

If they are in good condition (all drivers working) and you're getting the 802C processor for £325.00 then, what are you waiting for? If you don't like them, you'd be able to ebay that little lot at a profit.

The 802 is not an efficient box (91dB 1w/1m) so 113dB ish max assuming a little power compression. However as previously mentioned they do have very wide horizontal dispertion and a pair would be good for those numbers in most rooms for moderate levels, and used with an LMS and the PD156s underneath would see you OK for dance music levels at a small party. What type of boxes are your PD156s in? If they're not reflex, then you'll want to delay the 802s to them.

Powerdrive do a nice flying frame for the 802 which will be better suited to your needs than the Bose SB8 bracket which needs additional hardware to complete the rigging.
http://www.mypowerdrive.com/asp/catalogue/products.asp?linkid=53&prodcode=FYB%20802

Hope this helps

Tony

well i got them and well some of the drivers were coroded so im getting a full refund.. :Censored: anyways im still looking for a small pair of speakers.

do you know whats these like http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Logic-System-is8-speakers-pair_W0QQitemZ360240632311QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Co nElec_SpeakersPASystems_RL?hash=item53e003d1f7