"Active" Discussion

[Excalibur]

Yep, as I say Bose 802s use XLR connectors, but you couldn't use an XLR signal cable such as the one you'd use with your mic, or to connect from your mixer to an amplifier. You would have to use proper speaker cable with XLR connectors fitted, although most of the time people just use short adaptor from the back of the cab to convert to Speakon.

Even "active speakers" could be misinterpretted, I can use my speakers as active, but they don't have amps attached to them like powered speakers do. All active means is that crossovers are applied at signal level and not post-amp.

Sorry to be pedantic :D

From Wikipedia: Powered speakers (or active speakers) are speakers that have built-in amplifiers. :confused:

As to (passive) speaker cables, I'm guilty of expecting everybody to realise that those cables are different to signal cables. Sorry.

[A1DL]

Even "active speakers" could be misinterpretted, I can use my speakers as active, but they don't have amps attached to them like powered speakers do. All active means is that crossovers are applied at signal level and not post-amp.

Sorry to be pedantic :D


Give that man a large medal. Spot on, within pro audio, "active" and "passive" refer to the position of the crossover within the signal chain, and absolutely nothing to do with whether a box is powered or unpowered.

It is one of the most widely misunderstood and misrepresented terminologies, especially at disco/pub band/entry level where manufacturers and retailers alike use the description incorrectly.

[BeerFunk]

From Wikipedia: Powered speakers (or active speakers) are speakers that have built-in amplifiers. :confused:

As to (passive) speaker cables, I'm guilty of expecting everybody to realise that those cables are different to signal cables. Sorry.
Give that man a large medal. Spot on, within pro audio, "active" and "passive" refer to the position of the crossover within the signal chain, and absolutely nothing to do with whether a box is powered or unpowered.

It is one of the most widely misunderstood and misrepresented terminologies, especially at disco/pub band/entry level where manufacturers and retailers alike use the description incorrectly.I'm not sure I agree, I have a similar view to Peter.

Another example - network hubs can be passive (no built-in power supply) or active. The same principle applies.

[Danno13]

Lol its not about agreeing or disgareeing, its fact!

Most powered speakers are infact also active as they have a crossover at signal level before the amp for each driver within the cab, which is where the confusion comes from. But you can of course have an active speaker setup that doesn't involve powered cabinets.

[Excalibur]

Give that man a large medal. Spot on, within pro audio, "active" and "passive" refer to the position of the crossover within the signal chain, and absolutely nothing to do with whether a box is powered or unpowered.

It is one of the most widely misunderstood and misrepresented terminologies, especially at disco/pub band/entry level where manufacturers and retailers alike use the description incorrectly.

You may be ( OK, undoubtedly are :D ) right, but I suspect you will not educate many folk. From the article below:
http://www.mmproductions.co.uk/faqspe4.php


A passive speaker needs power from another source (i.e. a power amplifier). An active or powered speaker has an amplifier built in; therefore it needs a signal cable and a power cable run to it.

It's a new one on me Tony. I suspect you may be swimming against the tide. ;) :D

B&O
http://www.beoworld.org/article_view.asp?id=42

Active speakers, by contrast, feature a built-in amplifier that is an integral part of the speaker itself

[BeerFunk]

Lol its not about agreeing or disgareeing, its fact!You may be right. What's your reference?

[Tony Scott]

I think there needs to be a distinction made between 'Crossovers', 'Speakers' & 'Systems'.

This is my understanding of the differences:

Active:
An active speaker is one which has built in amplifiers and either an electronic or passive crossover.
An active (or electronic) crossover is one which goes before the amplifiers in the signal path.

Passive:
A passive speaker is one which has no amplifiers and a passive crossover.
A passive crossover is one which goes after the amplifier(s).

System v Speaker
An active system usually has the crossover and amps remotely situated from the speakers.

An active speaker has the crossover and amps situated in the speakers.

[A1DL]

You may be ( OK, undoubtedly are :D ) right, but I suspect you will not educate many folk. From the article below:
http://www.mmproductions.co.uk/faqspe4.php


You're right Peter, there would be little point in trying. Rather like trying to convince some that they cannot hear or see watts. But those on your linky should know better, they have some nice RH boxes on their inventory.


B&O
http://www.beoworld.org/article_view.asp?id=42



That's audiophool stuff, not pro audio :p I'm sure their "active" boxes sound even better with a £4,000 IP68 rated directional 6.0mm2 IEC320 assembly. Complete morons with more money than grey matter... this sums that lot up rather nicely: http://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

It's one of those things that just about everybody gets 'wrong', so in the end it's just as easy to be wrong!

I was told a while ago that active means what Tony is saying, but I still call my system active rather than powered. Mostly anyway.

[rob1963]

Give that man a large medal. Spot on, within pro audio, "active" and "passive" refer to the position of the crossover within the signal chain, and absolutely nothing to do with whether a box is powered or unpowered.

It is one of the most widely misunderstood and misrepresented terminologies, especially at disco/pub band/entry level where manufacturers and retailers alike use the description incorrectly.

Interesting.

Does this mean that there are active speakers which are passive, and passive speakers which are active, or have I misunderstood your post, Tony?

Also, how do you find out whether your speakers are genuinely active or passive?

[Gareth]

I had no idea about this. I have full range speakers that I require an amplifier to use.The Speakon cables come from the amplifier. So should I have a crossover there somewhere?

Cheers
Gareth

[Danno13]

Interesting.

Does this mean that there are active speakers which are passive, and passive speakers which are active, or have I misunderstood your post, Tony?

Also, how do you find out whether your speakers are genuinely active or passive?

Since it was me that started this whole thing (agghh.. what have I done!?? :D), I hope you don't mind me answering this :)

You can have a speaker that's incorrectly called "active" but is really used in a passive powered arrangement - this would have a single amp bolted on the back with an output to a passive crossover, which feeds each driver.

You could also have a passive speaker that contains a crossover to split between a compression horn and a driver, but that is fed from an amp rack with an active crossover in, so would be both active and passive!

Yes, it's confusing!!!

To keep it simple, the words active and passive have nothing to do with whether the amp is bolted to the speaker or not - the correct terms are powered or un-powered.

Active/Passive just refers to whether the signal filtering (i.e. use of crossovers) is done pre-amp or post-amp.


I had no idea about this. I have full range speakers that I require an amplifier to use.The Speakon cables come from the amplifier. So should I have a crossover there somewhere?

Cheers
Gareth

There will already be a passive crossover inside the speakers - or I beleive the piezo will perform this dury, if the speaker contains these rather than compression drivers.

Either way, you don't need any additional electronics when just dealing with full range cabs.

Although, it is possible and is used in real top end applications - you can use seperate amps for the bass driver and the compressipon driver and therefore have complete control over the gain on each and the crossover point, but this is usually well beyond the realm of DJ sound systems.

[rob1963]

Thanks Danno.

We live & learn!

[Tony Scott]

You can have a speaker that's incorrectly called "active" but is really used in a passive powered arrangement - this would have a single amp bolted on the back with an output to a passive crossover, which feeds each driver.

You could also have a passive speaker that contains a crossover to split between a compression horn and a driver, but that is fed from an amp rack with an active crossover in, so would be both active and passive!

Active/Passive just refers to whether the signal filtering (i.e. use of crossovers) is done pre-amp or post-amp.

So what would you call this then Dan?......looks like an 'Active' system to me, 2 way Electronic Active crossover done pre-amp, separate dedicated amplifiers for high and low drivers....it's active, no question! :)

* Lightweight and rugged polypropylene cabinet designed for life on the road
* Studio monitor sound quality in an active loudspeaker
* Servo-controlled 12" neodymium woofer delivers extremely deep, punchy bass in a compact design
* High-output 1.75" titanium tweeter for supreme high frequency clarity
* Class-D 300W low frequency amplifier for strong performance and fast recovery
* 100W high frequency amp for clear treble tones with no distortion
* Multi-cell horn throat aperture for extra-wide dispersion
* Built-in protection circuitry, including a limiter and sliding high-pass filter
* Phase-accurate 24dB Linkwitz-Riley electronic crossover
*XLR input and pass-thru connectors
*Active Electronic time alignment, phase correction, and EQ for studio-quality sound
* Can be flown, pole-mounted, or placed on stage in a vertical or wedge position

...oh by the way it's a Mackie SRM450 :)

[Tony Scott]

Just like to say that I too was confused about this issue until this discussion.

It seems that it's possible to have a powered speaker system that is 'active' or 'passive' just depends on weather it has an electronic or passive crossover. I think for clarity I'm going to call a speaker with an amp(s) built in Powered from now on, it's less confusing for others than going into the active/passive thing. :)

[BeerFunk]

Since it was me that started this whole thing (agghh.. what have I done!?? :D), I hope you don't mind me answering this :)

You can have a speaker that's incorrectly called "active" but is really used in a passive powered arrangement - this would have a single amp bolted on the back with an output to a passive crossover, which feeds each driver.

You could also have a passive speaker that contains a crossover to split between a compression horn and a driver, but that is fed from an amp rack with an active crossover in, so would be both active and passive!

Yes, it's confusing!!!

To keep it simple, the words active and passive have nothing to do with whether the amp is bolted to the speaker or not - the correct terms are powered or un-powered.

Active/Passive just refers to whether the signal filtering (i.e. use of crossovers) is done pre-amp or post-amp.



There will already be a passive crossover inside the speakers - or I beleive the piezo will perform this dury, if the speaker contains these rather than compression drivers.

Either way, you don't need any additional electronics when just dealing with full range cabs.

Although, it is possible and is used in real top end applications - you can use seperate amps for the bass driver and the compressipon driver and therefore have complete control over the gain on each and the crossover point, but this is usually well beyond the realm of DJ sound systems.It seems you've shifted your opinion slightly, to describe an active 'system', rather than an active 'speaker' - in which case, I agree.

However, I stand by my understanding that an active speaker is a speaker which contains an amplifier within it - rather than externally.

If this isn't the case, then I ask again :


You may be right. What's your reference?

[Excalibur]

Just like to say that I too was confused about this issue until this discussion.

Lucky you, cos I still am! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


It seems you've shifted your opinion slightly, to describe an active 'system', rather than an active 'speaker' - in which case, I agree.

However, I stand by my understanding that an active speaker is a speaker which contains an amplifier within it - rather than externally.

If this isn't the case, then I ask again :

That would still be the way I'd describe it, even though it may be technically inaccurate.

There's no wonder I'm confused when you realise that on Friday night, I take out a stack of Class D's and an amp and use a passive rig. On Saturday night, I use the same kit, this time with an active crossover and second amp, and voila I've now got an active system, but with all the same boxes! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Come on lads, surely you can't have it both ways? :confused: :D :D :D

[A1DL]

on Friday night, I take out a stack of Class D's and an amp and use a passive rig. On Saturday night, I use the same kit, this time with an active crossover and second amp, and voila I've now got an active system, but with all the same boxes!

spot on Peter!

[Excalibur]

spot on Peter!

Right, so I can have passive cabs that are active, active cabs that are unpowered, and passive cabs that are unpowered, but still appear to be making a noise? You ever thought of going into politics, Tony? You and Rob together you'd be unstoppable.






( And unintelligible) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[A1DL]

Right, so I can have passive cabs that are active,

To confuse things further you could have a 3-way active cab like the Stasys 3, which will either run 2-way active on NL4s with the MHF & HF running passive, or you can run it 3-way active on NL8s.


You ever thought of going into politics, Tony?

No, I've got a second home ;)

[soundtracker]

I would like to put myself firmly in the camp of:















































Really not caring at all.:)