Singing waiters

[gaza]

Hi everyone, hope you are all well.

Just had a chat with a lovely lady about her Wedding reception.
She has booked 3 x singing waiters to suprise the guests at her Wedding breakfast and she asked me if i can provide 3 x microphones and some speakers on stands, so of course that would include providing the PA system aswell and the Wedding breakfast is in a different room to where the evening reception will be.
Now, the reason that she was asking was because, if the singing waiters bring the PA system with them they charge an extra £400.
When i asked what was included in the equipment that they bring, she said all of the PA system and a sound engineer.
So, thingking about it, that means that the singing waiters are expecting to use the DJ's sound system and expect the Dj to be the sound engineer for them:bang: if they dont bring the gear with them.

I suppose i could do this for them and me charge them the £400 extra:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I would certainly charge them if they are using your gear.

I've had this situation before with an Elvis impersonator - the agent asked to use my gear and I said no. I didn't know him or the agent and didn't want damaged gear etc.

It turned out that the agent charged £650+vat for the Elvis impersonator, for an hour...

Ever get the feeling you're in the wrong business?

[gaza]

I would certainly charge them if they are using your gear.

I've had this situation before with an Elvis impersonator - the agent asked to use my gear and I said no. I didn't know him or the agent and didn't want damaged gear etc.

It turned out that the agent charged £650+vat for the Elvis impersonator, for an hour...

Ever get the feeling you're in the wrong business?



Yes i do.
I acutually said to the lady that i spoke to, that this sounded a lot when you think of the cost of the Disco for the whole evening.

[DJ INDIE]

i think youre fairly lucky theyve let you know - the majority just turn up (usually with CDs too - not great if youre an MP3 Dj).

At least now you know the budget the singers want for bringing the PA (£400) - so you could halve that and get an extra £200 and everyones happy.

The waiters cant complain, the bride is getting a half price PA and youre £200 up.



Theres lots of agents etc out there who just send people out with no gear and its ridiculous. theyre getting paid and as such are not bringing the correct equipment with them to do the job. Would a taxi driver just turn up for work and ask to borrow your car? - yep, get them waiters charged!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

i
Theres lots of agents etc out there who just send people out with no gear and its ridiculous.

I worked with a comedian recently who came on the train from Scotland without gear. I asked him what he would have done if I'd have said no to borrowing my gear and he told me he wouldn't have taken the booking!

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I worked with a comedian recently who came on the train from Scotland without gear. I asked him what he would have done if I'd have said no to borrowing my gear and he told me he wouldn't have taken the booking!


I try where possible to make contact before the night with other entertainment just purely to avoid situlations like this. Doesnt mean it wont happean but least I know Ive tried.

[DJ INDIE]

Just wondering - does anyone have it in their T&C that any other PROFESSIONAL act (ie act getting paid) cannot use your equipment without prior contact or charge? Or equipment will be charged out at £25 an hour etc?

[StarZSoundS]

Hi everyone, hope you are all well.

Just had a chat with a lovely lady about her Wedding reception.
She has booked 3 x singing waiters to suprise the guests at her Wedding breakfast and she asked me if i can provide 3 x microphones and some speakers on stands, so of course that would include providing the PA system aswell and the Wedding breakfast is in a different room to where the evening reception will be.
Now, the reason that she was asking was because, if the singing waiters bring the PA system with them they charge an extra £400.
When i asked what was included in the equipment that they bring, she said all of the PA system and a sound engineer.
So, thingking about it, that means that the singing waiters are expecting to use the DJ's sound system and expect the Dj to be the sound engineer for them:bang: if they dont bring the gear with them.

I suppose i could do this for them and me charge them the £400 extra:)


Gazza...I'm big on Customer Service but that's ridiculous!!


They are two totally different issues and events anyway.:confused: :confused:

She's trying to take the :Censored:.:eek: :eek:

Why not offer to provide it not for £400....but at a reduced rate??;) ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I try where possible to make contact before the night with other entertainment just purely to avoid situlations like this. Doesnt mean it wont happean but least I know Ive tried.

I did have contact before the night you muppet...

Come on Neil, you really don't think I'd leave something like that to chance do you? ;)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Sounds like its the same 3 guys ive worked with 9and a good friend has worked with then a lot). Yep, they either fetch their own gear with SE, or use yours...bit of advioce, if you do engineer for them, make sure you know what your doing ;)

[JTRS]

I worked with a comedian recently who came on the train from Scotland without gear. I asked him what he would have done if I'd have said no to borrowing my gear and he told me he wouldn't have taken the booking!

That's a lot more common then what you might think.

Most comedians do have their own PA system but rarely drive to long distance venues, I was no exception.

If I was working 'out of area' and a train/plane was a better option than driving I'd always contact the DJ and ask if I could use his PA (I'd always offer to bring my own mic though) and usually found that most DJ's were happy for me to do this.

Quite a few times I turned down long distance bookings because there were no PA facilities available at the venue.

JTRS

[visualdjmax]

Be really careful and don't volunteer to do this otherwise you will get your fingers burnt! Suggest that the client pays the extra 400 as she is probably paying over 1500 for the waiters anyway! If the sound isn't right then you will get the blame.

[gaza]

Be really careful and don't volunteer to do this otherwise you will get your fingers burnt! Suggest that the client pays the extra 400 as she is probably paying over 1500 for the waiters anyway! If the sound isn't right then you will get the blame.



Yes thats right, i told the client that if she wants to book me, the waiters would have to bring there own gear.

[DiscoPromotions]

The unexpected shock of an act using your equipment without prior notice is

1. Un-professional of the act/agent taking the booking and assuming
2. Dam right cheeky

Only experienced this once so far...

An act came up and said "where do I plug in?" (no introductions)
I replied "excuse me"
The act replied "where do I plug into your equipment?"

I then replied "Sorry, but you not plugging anything into this equipment as I do not know who you are, what you are using or if you have PLI & PAT"

In the end the act did not perform. Will not bore you with the details, just that he did not have PLI & PAT. From speaking to the function manager, he said that told him he could not perform without PLI & PAT.

We work with singing waiters, providing a PA system. First time we meet they brought their own PA and engineer.

They use us when we are free, as they liked what we had, and how we do things. It brings in about 1 or 2 events every 3 - 6 months. It filled up a few christmas blanks in 2009. We offer them a good rate both beneficial for them and us.

When I taking any booking I always ask if they are having band/act on as well. If they yes, I provide information on what we can and cannot do. So, they can go back and check with the band/act to avoid issue; including putting it on our booking confirmation form special notes.

There is not just cowboy DJs but acts/bands etc as well that provide un-professional service.

[visualdjmax]

I don't know if this helps? Put attached is the technical rider of the 3-Waiters (The Original Ones), they will refuse to patch into a standard DJ System.

[Mission]

Just wondering - does anyone have it in their T&C that any other PROFESSIONAL act (ie act getting paid) cannot use your equipment without prior contact or charge? Or equipment will be charged out at £25 an hour etc?

I use:

9. We welcome working with other forms of entertainment. If you have booked other types of
entertainment, please let us know their contact details so we can work with them regarding
space, equipment, timings, etc. Under no circumstances, can an artist or band just request to
plug into the DJ’s equipment at the event, without prior agreement.

And Also:

7. The DJ will not play any media handed to them at the event, unless agreed prior
to the event. This is due to the possibility of unsuitable tracks, unnamed tracks and the
transmission of potential viruses to computer equipment.

[yourdj]

I would charge them £100.

They then get £100 each too.
If they have their own PA why not bring it?

They are being lazy.

[Excalibur]

FFS, they're specifying top of the range kit, with an experienced dedicated tech op, and full surround sound. How do you think they're going to react when you offer a three pack of £20 Behringers with two metres of cable, and two Mackie 450's a hundred feet away. :bang: :bang: Sometimes I really really despair at the attitudes shown on here.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I use:

9. We welcome working with other forms of entertainment. If you have booked other types of
entertainment, please let us know their contact details so we can work with them regarding
space, equipment, timings, etc. Under no circumstances, can an artist or band just request to
plug into the DJ’s equipment at the event, without prior agreement.

And Also:

7. The DJ will not play any media handed to them at the event, unless agreed prior
to the event. This is due to the possibility of unsuitable tracks, unnamed tracks and the
transmission of potential viruses to computer equipment.

Can i borrow your clause 9, and reword it slightly please? :)

[Excalibur]

Can i borrow your clause 9, and reword it slightly please? :)

You can borrow mine if you like.
(9. As long as you aren't taking the :Censored: , and we've got a cable that connects everything to everything else, of course you can use the kit. I'm stood there anyway, so why shouldn't I ride the faders for you? Added to which, it stops you bringing a PA in through my punters twice, and using it to obscure me totally from the punters. And since you ask, yes, I would like a pint.

[Mission]

Can i borrow your clause 9, and reword it slightly please? :)

Yeah, no problem.

[Mission]

You can borrow mine if you like.
(9. As long as you aren't taking the :Censored: , and we've got a cable that connects everything to everything else, of course you can use the kit. I'm stood there anyway, so why shouldn't I ride the faders for you? Added to which, it stops you bringing a PA in through my punters twice, and using it to obscure me totally from the punters. And since you ask, yes, I would like a pint.

That's the one. :bang:

[DazzyD]

I try where possible to make contact before the night with other entertainment just purely to avoid situlations like this. Doesnt mean it wont happean but least I know Ive tried.

There's a specific section in my booking system for "Other Entertainment". If I'm going to be sharing the stage then I want to know about it in advance. I've had acts using my PA before and I know a fair bit about audio balancing/sound engineering so I'd have no problem with this providing I was paid properly for my services and I could contact the act a couple of weeks before the show. I'd struggle to provide the kind of kit that these guys want, though. Mind you, I'd have thought singing waiters would be better off with lapel/lavelier mics to keep their hands free for serving, performance gestures, etc. Just my opinion.


Just wondering - does anyone have it in their T&C that any other PROFESSIONAL act (ie act getting paid) cannot use your equipment without prior contact or charge? Or equipment will be charged out at £25 an hour etc?

Yep. However, it's sometimes the other act that pays for the facility, though. After all, they get their full fee and I'm making their logistics much easier. It's also a flat-rate fee as opposed to hourly charge. If they don't want to pay it, they don't use it. And it's done by written agreement between me and them so the client doesn't need to be in the loop.


Sounds like its the same 3 guys ive worked with 9and a good friend has worked with then a lot). Yep, they either fetch their own gear with SE, or use yours...bit of advioce, if you do engineer for them, make sure you know what your doing ;)

I'd agree. If you don't know how to get the very best sound from your system with at least 4 channels active at the same time then don't bother. And I don't mean if you "think" you know how to get the very best sound from your system!


FFS, they're specifying top of the range kit, with an experienced dedicated tech op, and full surround sound. How do you think they're going to react when you offer a three pack of £20 Behringers with two metres of cable, and two Mackie 450's a hundred feet away. :bang: :bang: Sometimes I really really despair at the attitudes shown on here.

It's the surround sound bit I'd struggle with. My first thought was they were a bit demanding but, thinking about, they are obviously professional, possibly classically-trained performers. Sub-standard kit could also damage their reputation if it makes them sound poor.


You can borrow mine if you like.
(9. As long as you aren't taking the :Censored: , and we've got a cable that connects everything to everything else, of course you can use the kit. I'm stood there anyway, so why shouldn't I ride the faders for you? Added to which, it stops you bringing a PA in through my punters twice, and using it to obscure me totally from the punters. And since you ask, yes, I would like a pint.

Think we've all been there! Although mines a Jamieson's with just 2 ice cubes in! ;)

[Excalibur]

It's the surround sound bit I'd struggle with.
Loads of Class D's, and long cables. ;) :D :D :D :D :D

My first thought was they were a bit demanding but, thinking about, they are obviously professional, possibly classically-trained performers. Sub-standard kit could also damage their reputation if it makes them sound poor. ;)

Yeah, that's my point. They're not thieving :Censored:s. If you can't provide gear equal to what they can, don't slag 'em off for charging £400. And don't think that three cheap cable mics and two crap active cabs for £150 is better value. Really I sometimes think that Mamon rules on here. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[visualdjmax]

FFS, they're specifying top of the range kit, with an experienced dedicated tech op, and full surround sound. How do you think they're going to react when you offer a three pack of £20 Behringers with two metres of cable, and two Mackie 450's a hundred feet away. :bang: :bang: Sometimes I really really despair at the attitudes shown on here.

well done that man!:D

[DazzyD]

Loads of Class D's, and long cables. ;) :D :D :D :D :D


Yeah, that's my point. They're not thieving :Censored:s. If you can't provide gear equal to what they can, don't slag 'em off for charging £400. And don't think that three cheap cable mics and two crap active cabs for £150 is better value. Really I sometimes think that Mamon rules on here. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

I know. And it's a point I agree with which is why I was highlighting it! ;)

[visualdjmax]

I think that a PA and engineer for £400 is well cheap and the client is better off booking it so that the waiters are happy. They have been stitched up so many times by having a Dave Double Dex do there sound and make them look like x3 prize idiots, which is why they demand the required system. I have got a job with them the first weekend in May for 400 guests. My client thought that he could run them through my PA, until I explained the difference. We are now adding mics, desk, effects and a Sound Engineer to my system.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

FFS, they're specifying top of the range kit, with an experienced dedicated tech op, and full surround sound. How do you think they're going to react when you offer a three pack of £20 Behringers with two metres of cable, and two Mackie 450's a hundred feet away. :bang: :bang: Sometimes I really really despair at the attitudes shown on here.

You aren't the only one chap.

We really let ourselves down with our naivety and unprofessionalism (if that's even a word!) sometimes...

[visualdjmax]

You aren't the only one chap.

We really let ourselves down with our naivety and unprofessionalism (if that's even a word!) sometimes...

I am (as you well know MR T) up for the upsell, but sometimes I think that it is best to stick to what you do best. By all means take notes at the gig and learn from it and then perhaps try to attempt to do it. If and only IF you have the gear and you feel confident mixing sound.

[gaza]

Loads of Class D's, and long cables. ;) :D :D :D :D :D


Yeah, that's my point. They're not thieving :Censored:s. If you can't provide gear equal to what they can, don't slag 'em off for charging £400. And don't think that three cheap cable mics and two crap active cabs for £150 is better value. Really I sometimes think that Mamon rules on here. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


I think that a PA and engineer for £400 is well cheap and the client is better off booking it so that the waiters are happy. They have been stitched up so many times by having a Dave Double Dex do there sound and make them look like x3 prize idiots, which is why they demand the required system. I have got a job with them the first weekend in May for 400 guests. My client thought that he could run them through my PA, until I explained the difference. We are now adding mics, desk, effects and a Sound Engineer to my system.


Spot on.

So mesage to the three waiters, dont be so bloody lazy and bring your own kit. :bang:

[Excalibur]

You aren't the only one chap.

We really let ourselves down with our naivety and unprofessionalism (if that's even a word!) sometimes...

Though I agree totally with what you say, that wasn't actually the point I was trying to make. I won't say a lot more. ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Though I agree totally with what you say, that wasn't actually the point I was trying to make. I won't say a lot more. ;)

What was the point then? :confused: