Exciting & Adventurous..Great Day + New Website that needs reviewing.

[Ukbride Owner]

Sorry, I just can't stop myself...



No it isn't, you have had 6 Brides in 6 weeks in his area, in the next 6 weeks you might not get any!

You can't expect to be taken seriously when you use narrow data and then try and use that to predict the future, it's just...

:Rob James:

It is that dodgy car salesman liberal approach to facts that turns people off. :(

It is 6 in TWO weeks (since the poll has been running).

I know it is hard to believe but actually when you deal with massive quantities, you discover that the dust settles. It was a surprise to me too.

You can find that I am telling the truth by looking at my stats page and seeing how many people join in a particular area, you discover that it's usually a similar amount each month, loads of other stats on there also remain similar.

I can't guarantee the future other than look at what has happen in the past. I do agree that two weeks is a small number, but that can work both ways.

I usually don't release poll results unto 5,000 have been answered. When the Disco poll has been answered 5,000 times I will put the results on here. But you compare them to when they were at 2,500, you will see the percentages hardly change!

[Jambo]

Julian heres a question for you?

Do you get many recently married brides return to the forum to share the experience of their wedding?

If so why not ask the how important they feel their DJ was after the event?

[JDB Entertainment]

Well Ladies & Gentlemen...

Charlie Brown has had 4 enquiries today and they all want a quote...I'm hoping they are not the £199 bookings - but still - It's filling last minute dates in my diary!

I know I said I was only posting once, but....


Already not happy with the £199 bookings Charlie?!

Saying you are hoping they are not the £199 bookings comes across to me as though you are not happy with this 100%?!

Correct me if I am wrong?

[DazzyD]

Just caught up on this thread and...


My UK bride advert has been tweaked for 4 hours....I now have my first enquiry.....Turns out she's in bloody Skegeness. :sj:

Well, what's the problem with that, Charlie? You were happy for Julian to promote you as a National entity because he said your image was too local. Surely Skegness is National to you? It's not international.


...Nottinghamshire has a lower spend than London, Surrey, Berkshire, Kent and Sussex for example and so the prices have to be adjusted.

We have done our market research ;)


I'm not sure but this may be saying that when some of us have protested that...

"You can't get that round here":eek: :eek: :eek:

or

"That the Streets are paved with Gold down South" :eek: :eek: :eek:


Funny, Martin, that's exactly what I thought.


Funnily enough I think you have got away with murder and have seen many members edited, deleted and sin binned for similar (just like this post probably will be), but hey ho, I'm not in charge.


Sorry mods and staff but I have to agree. I said before that this was promoting a service which is against forum rules but was told it's okay as Julian has taken out advertising. I never thought that the forum would succumb to the "money talks" brigade.


I have deleted posts with too much advertising on them as this is starting to get silly.

Glad you've knocked it on the head, Daz. I appreciate that forum rules still mean something.


Cool, no worries at all.

It is hard to get the message across without getting too pluggy. :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

Funny how no-one else on the forum needs to resort to marketing their services to get their point across. :confused:


Nail on the head, Martin. Lost it for me at post no.3 in this 120+ post thread, as selling a naive youngster a brochure that looks like a flyer for Gatecrasher, when you supposedly have 15 years experience in the wedding industry, doesn't stack up however you come at it.

Again, exactly what I was thinking.


In the long run, he'll build himself up a good customer base, and if he does a good job, word of mouth will spread, not to mention all the hits on his website etc. ...

Weddings are typically one-off affairs so the prospect of repeat bookings are quite slim (although not non-existent). However, there may be bookings from the guests - each one will say "How come you charged them £199 six months ago when you're trying to charge me 50% more?". To justify that kind of increase you'll need to be very, very good on the night!


again i think the BAnd Waggon has a lot of people hanging on to it for no real reason.

Charlie has been touted as a £199 Wedding DJ - FALSE

Charlie has in fact only been touted as a £199 Wedding DJ to UK Bride members only, (i assume he advertises elsewhere and to other people too) where he has been given information to the average spend Brides are expecting to pay, and thus doesnt waste his time over quoting, and is free to carry on elsewhere as he wishes.
in this model, he has insider knowledge of projected budget spend of the Brides and has a plan in place to get that business.


and


Its not false on two counts;

he is a £199 DJ to the UKBride market that he knows their projected average spend. He is free to be a £299 DJ to other customers etc etc

if you look carefully he is a "FROM £199...." he can put his prices up whenever, upsell other extras etc etc - its a simple marketting ploy to get the initial contact.

but he isnt downgrading himself per say - just targetting this price and strategy at ONE market. the UK Bride one.

Other customers? Are you sure Charlie will have time with all the £199 bookings that UKB are going to send his way? :confused:


OI!

:boxer2:

My background represents me - Different, quirky, unique, abstract, amazing and super! ;)

How about using the £199 offer ONLY Sunday to Friday?

Martin is knocking me up a 2nd website...I'm going to have two identities. :sj:

£199 - no frills, no event meeting, no playlist planning - just a basic 4 hour disco 15 miles from Nottingham Town centre.

Your thoughts?

Now that is thinking like a businessman. Well done, and good idea, Charlie! t However, you must make this perfectly clear in your advertising of the discount. Any ambiguity and you could fall foul of the advertising laws.


Ollie if you read my post carefully it wasn't a blatent blow at ALL members of the forum. But you are very young too, and you will learn that BUSINESS IS BUSINESS.

It's a nasty unfair game somtimes.

Keeping ahead of the competition is something I believe is very important.

I do think Charlie has been a little too open with his plans. How many views has this thread had! How many DJ's across the county have thought, bl**dy hel l that's a good idea!

I can assure you that there are not many friends on the business world!!!

That is utter rubbish as others have already pointed out. Ever heard of the phrase "keep your friends close and your enemies closer?" You seem to alienate everyone you might perceive as competition.


Charlie has seen for himself I get big deals, and in two weeks time 'the big one' which is worth millions, not hundreds.

I am learning so much on here about how you guys think.

and


BTW - I too am 42, I actually have 26 years experience in the Marketing Industry (only 15 of them are self employed in the wedding marketing industry)... So you are outranked my friend ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Bit willy-waving there? ;)

[Ukbride Owner]

Dazzy D, there is alot of effort put into that post. Not much in there that is possitive towards me though is there.

Can you give a balanced view or only negative?

[Corabar Entertainment]

Julian

I'm getting the feeling that some members are feeling rather negative because the way the marketing advice is coming over is "Cut your prices".

As I've mentioned before (but I don't believe you addressed), any one of us could come up with that one, but it isn't beneficial to most of us. Have you got any other marketing tips for our members?

You have a product/service where you are looking at almost infinite capacity, and therefore the monumental discount route is an option for you in your line. For the DJs on here, yes, by all means offer discounts here or there - especially to fill up empty dates (eg short-notice, or off-peak), but (again as I said previously) Saturday is the mainstay of the DJ, and there are only 52 weeks in a year, so if they cut their Saturday prices to low low amounts, 2 things will happen:-

1. They will be back in the mosh-pit taking on less desirable clients (which may very well cost them dearly in the long run), and
2. They won't have a roof over their head because the mortgage won't be paid.

Even for the multi-ops where they can take on more gigs, this sort of pricing is not sustainable - not unless they are going to employ the type of DJ that gets referred to on here as 'sixty quid sids' - either that, or operate illegally. (neither of which the DJs on here are prepared to do, because we are the professional end of the market and are not going to offer a shoddy service)

I don't think you realise that there are plenty of DJs on here who have overheads of around £100 per gig, and that between office/planning/the gig itself, the time spent on the average 4-5 hour event is often around the 14-15 hour mark..... and, of course, more time tends to be spent in the planning of wedding receptions than other types of gig.

So, do you have any other marketing tips for us that don't involve cutting prices?

[Penfold42]

:agree:

Well said Angela. :beer1:

[Ukbride Owner]

Yes I do, I have loads of ideas.

But they involve UKbride's statergies and I am not allowed to post them here.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Yes I do, I have loads of ideas.

But they involve UKbride's statergies and I am not allowed to post them here.So, marketing, in your opinion, is only possible through UKBride, and general marketing principles cannot be used across the board? :mad:

[DJ James Lake]

So, marketing, in your opinion, is only possible through UKBride, and general marketing principles cannot be used across the board? :mad:

Its quite simple "stack em high, sell em low" © the Aldi School of marketing :D

[Vectis]

© the Aldi School of marketing :D

Perhaps not the best analogy? ;)
http://www.lz-blog.de/spotlight/2010/02/07/aldi-leads-the-pack-2/

[DJ James Lake]

Perhaps not the best analogy? ;)
http://www.lz-blog.de/spotlight/2010/02/07/aldi-leads-the-pack-2/

It was a reference to the quality of the product :)


Funny how even Aldi in that page stated the following

"In 2008, Aldi, very unusually, used higher global raw materials prices to charge more at the tills."

[Vectis]

It was a reference to the quality of the product :)


Funny how even Aldi in that page stated the following

"In 2008, Aldi, very unusually, used higher global raw materials prices to charge more at the tills."

Ah... OK. So not cash-generating ability then :o

[DJ James Lake]

Ah... OK. So not cash-generating ability then :o

nope

[Excalibur]

There are treatments for men your age. :D
Are there any for men my age?:confused: :confused: :( :( :( :( :(

Mark are you starting to see things me way a little? :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

As a former marketing professional I know that if I can get you on board I have reached the pinnacle of my career and can retire!!! :) :) :)
And I shall carry on knitting fog. ;) ;) :D :D


Its quite simple "stack em high, sell em low" © the Aldi School of marketing :D
Ah, at last something I understand. :D

[StarZSoundS]

Its quite simple "stack em high, sell em low" © the Aldi School of marketing :D



I'm sorry James...

I'm going to be brave enough to say that I am below the average (UKBride) price for Weddings(£319).:eek: :eek:

I am fully legit(accountant meeting Monday ETC) and I have never HEARD a negative comment.I am a veteran of maybe 500 weddings!!:) :) :)

Admittedly I don't have Mackie Speakers (50 lashes Mr.Christian) or Martin Lights(another 50 Mr.Christian...."but he's already Dead Sir").But I turn out a more than adequate show for what the Bride has invested.

So the stack 'em high analogy is spot on...cos i'm more than busy!!:) :) :)


I actually wouldn't have it any other way!! :D :D :D :D

[DJ James Lake]

I'm sorry James...

I'm going to be brave enough to say that I am below the average (UKBride) price for Weddings(£319).:eek: :eek:

I am fully legit(accountant meeting Monday ETC) and I have never HEARD a negative comment.I am a veteran of maybe 500 weddings!!:) :) :)

Admittedly I don't have Mackie Speakers (50 lashes Mr.Christian) or Martin Lights(another 50 Mr.Christian...."but he's already Dead Sir").But I turn out a more than adequate show for what the Bride has invested.

So the stack 'em high analogy is spot on...cos i'm more than busy!!:) :) :)


I actually wouldn't have it any other way!! :D :D :D :D

The actual figure was Sub £200 not £300

But please lets not repeat the last 100 or so posts again

[Ukbride Owner]

I was just starting to write some ideas on here to help which are not directly related to UKbride. But I have decided to delete them.

The reason is that I feel that there is a little bit of a mob culture on here (not all members but quite a few)...

Trouble is that if I give good advice it will slated, pulled apart, laughed at and rediculed.

I came here to defend my website.

I have designed a brochure, business cards, letterheads and logo for Charlie for free, I spent 5 hours of my time helping him. I budgeted. I analysed the market and worked out a business plan that WILL work for HIM.

I have asked the poll questions that you wanted me to ask and posted the results. I have said that I am happy to run a story on the home page of UKbride to help fight your corner and educate brides about pricing.

A few of you have chosen to take up the 75% discount that is ONLY offered on this forum.

I have answered honestly and given you advice from a long career I have in marketing.

I have been frustrated with the responses from some of you, but I do know that I have also received great support in the PM's, it's a shame that those voices weren't always on the forum.

You may be frustrated with some of my advice and frustrated that the brides are mainly planning on spending £300 or less on their disco. But the results and my advice are true.

Without going over the same issues I really do think that thus should be my last post (3 times then out!)

I wish you all well and hope that you now know alot more about the wedding industry than you knew before I came on here. Even if ut was only just one nugget of information I hope it helped you to shape your business.

Best wishes

[Corabar Entertainment]

It might surprise you Martin, but we are far from the most expensive, and also do quite a number of weddings at around or even marginally below the average that you speak of.

However, we couldn't do weddings on a Saturday for £199... which is what we're talking about here. There is a world of difference between £199 and £319!

Heck, we took a booking via this site (MDD) this week where the deposit was considerably more than the proposed £199!

Nobody is saying that there is anything wrong with what you provide Martin - we've been over this before. You have chosen your market and you are happy with it, but by your own admission, you are not trying to make a living from this and might feel differently if you were.

[DazzyD]

Dazzy D, there is alot of effort put into that post. Not much in there that is possitive towards me though is there.

Can you give a balanced view or only negative?

I'll happily reply to that.

Generally, I give a balanced view of most subjects discussed on this forum. I give my advice, based on my experiences of the job we do, totally free of charge to anyone who asks for it. And I always appreciate the positive feedback I've received from those who have been helped by my advice.

I've never once needed to push the services I offer to get my points across to anyone and have never come across anyone else who has utilised self-promotion to the extent that you have on here over the last couple of weeks. I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules, they are there to benefit the forum's membership as a whole, and it is my opinion that you continually breach rules 14/14(b) of the Forum Rules by the amount of (albeit, at times, indirect) promotion of your site.

I've checked out your site as I am always open to new "routes to market" but I feel that your clientelle do not match my target market as laid out in my business plan which, incidentally, has been in place from the very start. My wedding disco entity isn't called "Premier" for nothing and, from my observations, the brides-to-be on your site (with a few exceptions) appear to be more "conference" in their aspirations with regards to their wedding entertainment.

Therefore, I will continue to use my existing marketing methods as I feel they will continue to offer a far superior return on my investments than your site is capable of.

As you may have realised, I tell things how I find them. You have asked if I can only give a negative opinion. The answer is no but I cannot find anything positive (for me) in the services you offer nor in the potential leads you may well be able to generate for me. Last year I quoted a wedding planner £350 for a wedding at a Hall in our area. I didn't the get the gig - the reason given being I was so cheap compared to other quotes they had from other service providers that the client didn't think I could be up to much. This is the client-market I'm aiming for. Your clientelle would be a step backwards for me.

I hope you don't take offence at this as, other than the constant self-promotion of your site, I've nothing personal against you. I can see how your services might benefit lower-end wedding DJs but it's not for me.

[StarZSoundS]

The actual figure was Sub £200 not £300

Sorry James....

I distinctly remember the UkBride average figure being quoted as £319 by the IOW.

My immediate reaction was.

:Censored: it. i'm good.... and i'm less than that.

However ....I have no great desire or need to change that (I have a daytime job).So why not just keep giving good value and getting repeat business without resorting to Julians site anyway!!

Saved myself £117.00

































+ VAT:D :D :D :D :D

[DJ James Lake]

I was just starting to write some ideas on here to help which are not directly related to UKbride. But I have decided to delete them.

The reason is that I feel that there is a little bit of a mob culture on here (not all members but quite a few)...

Trouble is that if I give good advice it will slated, pulled apart, laughed at and rediculed.

I came here to defend my website.

I have designed a brochure, business cards, letterheads and logo for Charlie for free, I spent 5 hours of my time helping him. I budgeted. I analysed the market and worked out a business plan that WILL work for HIM.

I have asked the poll questions that you wanted me to ask and posted the results. I have said that I am happy to run a story on the home page of UKbride to help fight your corner and educate brides about pricing.

A few of you have chosen to take up the 75% discount that is ONLY offered on this forum.

I have answered honestly and given you advice from a long career I have in marketing.

I have been frustrated with the responses from some of you, but I do know that I have also received great support in the PM's, it's a shame that those voices weren't always on the forum.

You may be frustrated with some of my advice and frustrated that the brides are mainly planning on spending £300 or less on their disco. But the results and my advice are true.

Without going over the same issues I really do think that thus should be my last post (3 times then out!)

I wish you all well and hope that you now know alot more about the wedding industry than you knew before I came on here. Even if ut was only just one nugget of information I hope it helped you to shape your business.

Best wishes

Julian its not at all mob culture, you have a divide in users here, for some your strategies will work well, but for others it wont, unfortunately for the ones it wont work for (myself being one) they do have genuine reasons to question your answers.


Sorry James....

I distinctly remember the UkBride average figure being quoted as £319 by the IOW.


I'm not going to argue but the polls actually showed the bulk in the up to £200 bracket

[Corabar Entertainment]

I was just starting to write some ideas on here to help which are not directly related to UKbride. But I have decided to delete them.

The reason is that I feel that there is a little bit of a mob culture on here (not all members but quite a few)...

Trouble is that if I give good advice it will slated, pulled apart, laughed at and rediculed.

I came here to defend my website.

I have designed a brochure, business cards, letterheads and logo for Charlie for free, I spent 5 hours of my time helping him. I budgeted. I analysed the market and worked out a business plan that WILL work for HIM.

I have asked the poll questions that you wanted me to ask and posted the results. I have said that I am happy to run a story on the home page of UKbride to help fight your corner and educate brides about pricing.

A few of you have chosen to take up the 75% discount that is ONLY offered on this forum.

I have answered honestly and given you advice from a long career I have in marketing.

I have been frustrated with the responses from some of you, but I do know that I have also received great support in the PM's, it's a shame that those voices weren't always on the forum.

You may be frustrated with some of my advice and frustrated that the brides are mainly planning on spending £300 or less on their disco. But the results and my advice are true.

Without going over the same issues I really do think that thus should be my last post (3 times then out!)

I wish you all well and hope that you now know alot more about the wedding industry than you knew before I came on here. Even if ut was only just one nugget of information I hope it helped you to shape your business.

Best wishesJulian

I am disappointed that you take this view: there is no 'mob mentality' here at all!

Surely, the fact that some people with many years of experience in this industry are disagreeing with you isn't cause for you to feel like this? Don't you feel that debate is healthy? I would have thought that, with your chosen industry (marketing) you would have developed a thicker skin than this! :eek:

No-one has attacked you personally - merely disagreed with some of your ideas! (which is why I was suggesting that maybe you share just a little of your experience, knowledge, and insight by giving us some general marketing tips other than heavily discounting)


I distinctly remember the UkBride average figure being quoted as £319...


I'm not going to argue but the polls actually showed the bulk in the up to £200 bracket
'Average' and 'majority' are two different measurements chaps! You're both right :)

[StarZSoundS]

I have designed a brochure, business cards, letterheads and logo for Charlie for free, I spent 5 hours of my time helping him. I budgeted. I analysed the market and worked out a business plan that WILL work for HIM.



I have answered honestly and given you advice from a long career I have in marketing.

it's a shame that those voices weren't always on the forum.

I wish you all well and hope that you now know alot more about the wedding industry than you knew before I came on here. Even if ut was only just one nugget of information I hope it helped you to shape your business.

Best wishes

I think you are Macca Julien...

I have said so privately and publicly.


The place is going to be a sadder place without you.Too bad that we chose to attack rather than listen.

Your product wasn't for me....but it may have been when I was a bit younger and ambitious!!MAN...would I love to be in Charlies position now...and to be quite frank(though we've had our differences in the past) I think he is one of the few that is up to it(possibly Ollie and Scott too).

[Mark Wild]

Too bad that we chose to attack rather than listen.

You speak for one person and one person only ;)

[StarZSoundS]

You speak for one person and one person only ;)


Yep....you are right.It was my opinion....Which I am allowed to express??:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[DJ James Lake]

Your product wasn't for me....but it may have been when I was a bit younger and ambitious!!MAN...would I love to be in Charlies position now...and to be quite frank(though we've had our differences in the past) I think he is one of the few that is up to it(possibly Ollie and Scott too).


Can't speak for the others but Ollie certainly doesn't need to be knocking out £199 weddings

[StarZSoundS]

Can't speak for the others but Ollie certainly doesn't need to be knocking out £199 weddings

Thats up to Ollie.... but he may regret it too...When he's working for Charlie Brown Northampton or Glasgow or Penzeance in the future...

IT COULD HAPPEN ....look out!!

I'm sure Darren started out as a one man band too??:confused: :confused:

[DJ James Lake]

Thats up to Ollie.... but he may regret it too...When he's working for Charlie Brown Northampton or Glasgow or Penzeance in the future...

IT COULD HAPPEN ....look out!!

I'm sure Darren started out as a one man band too??:confused: :confused:

Why should he regret it, he's worth more already and for his age doing well.

Walk before you can run.

[JTRS]

Julian

I am disappointed that you take this view: there is no 'mob mentality' here at all!




Sorry Angela but there is a 'mob mentality' here, I've experienced it, I've seen others experience it and it is certainly evident on this thread towards Julian.

I don't post that much on this forum simply because 'the usual suspects' will jump in and exhibit the mob mentality, and like Julian I've had PM's from people agreeing with my point of view but scared (yes scared) to post their reply publicly for fear of upsetting the 'in crowd'

JTRS

[StarZSoundS]

Why should he regret it, he's worth more already and for his age doing well.

Walk before you can run.

James ....you seem like a reasonable guy....mean it!!:) :)


I am flabbergasted with how we have reacted to Juilien coming on to The Forum.He has a lot to offer.We maybe had a lot to learn from the Guy(who incidentally is a Millionaire.....How many others on here!!) but we were too ready to blame him for the state of the market and his Brides attitudes.


We could have perhaps strung him along a bit more....and then hung the poor :Censored: out to dry!!!Only joking Julien!!:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[DJ James Lake]

James ....you seem like a reasonable guy....mean it!!:) :)


I am flabbergasted with how we have reacted to Juilien coming on to The Forum.He has a lot to offer.We maybe had a lot to learn from the Guy(who incidentally is a Millionaire.....How many others on here!!) but we were too ready to blame him for the state of the market and his Brides attitudes.


We could have perhaps strung him along a bit more....and then hung the poor :Censored: out to dry!!!Only joking Julien!!:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

Its not that at all, at the end of the day his product does offer a lot to some members, more those looking to break into weddings at the lower end. At the other end though it offers very little. The goal of any DJ who is serious about the business is to progress to the higher paid jobs, but unfortunately the reason there are low paid jobs in the first place is that somewhere it is being cheapened.

The state of the market really doesn't have anything to do with it, brides want the perfect day and if they think they are going to get it by going cheapest to suit a particular budget they wont get it.

The point which has tried to be put across is that education to potential brides is what is needed, not cutting costs , the reactions on the whole have been totally justified if you read the whole topic. All we have asked is to be listened to.

Unfortunately on numerous occasions, because it doesn't fit with the current marketing strategy of UKBride it has fallen upon deaf ears a lot of the time. What Julian should have done from the start is addressed the reactions some of us have had viewed to the cheapening of our industry was to look at how more quality leads could be generated. He has the power to change the way brides look at entertainment.

If Julian can manage to shift the results of the poles so that more brides start seeing the importance of not cutting costs with entertainment, and by that I dont just mean DJ's I will be first in the queue to advertise.

The problem with forums is that its very easy to take things the wrong way, believe me your not alone in being in the thick of it, but I have stuck with it, the forum helps. I've been in this game for the last 27 years and it has been a huge help to me despite the odd heated debate.

Personally I think the best solution to this would be a some of the higher earning shows to meet up with Julian and to discuss what the higher end needs from an advertising package for it to be attractive. Perhaps even invite him along to a few functions to see the extra work we put in.

[StarZSoundS]

Its not that at all, at the end of the day his product does offer a lot to some members, more those looking to break into weddings at the lower end. At the other end though it offers very little. The goal of any DJ who is serious about the business is to progress to the higher paid jobs, but unfortunately the reason there are low paid jobs in the first place is that somewhere it is being cheapened.

The state of the market really doesn't have anything to do with it, brides want the perfect day and if they think they are going to get it by going cheapest to suit a particular budget they wont get it.

The point which has tried to be put across is that education to potential brides is what is needed, not cutting costs , the reactions on the whole have been totally justified if you read the whole topic. All we have asked is to be listened to.

Unfortunately on numerous occasions, because it doesn't fit with the current marketing strategy of UKBride it has fallen upon deaf ears a lot of the time. What Julian should have done from the start is addressed the reactions some of us have had viewed to the cheapening of our industry was to look at how more quality leads could be generated. He has the power to change the way brides look at entertainment.

If Julian can manage to shift the results of the poles so that more brides start seeing the importance of not cutting costs with entertainment, and by that I dont just mean DJ's I will be first in the queue to advertise.

The problem with forums is that its very easy to take things the wrong way, believe me your not alone in being in the thick of it, but I have stuck with it, the forum helps. I've been in this game for the last 27 years and it has been a huge help to me despite the odd heated debate.

Personally I think the best solution to this would be a some of the higher earning shows to meet up with Julian and to discuss what the higher end needs from an advertising package for it to be attractive. Perhaps even invite him along to a few functions to see the extra work we put in.



You see ....perfect example.....a measured considered reply!!:beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

No sarcasm or swiping...a proffesional response.


Though Simon (JTRS) is only 15 miles from me...i'm pretty certain he has more to say.To show i'm not in collusion...i'm going to bed!!

There have been some shameful posts in this thread!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[STEVE HANLEY]

The Falklands war didn't last as long as this thread

[Corabar Entertainment]

There have been some shameful posts in this thread!!:eek: :eek: :eek:Like what????

Sorry Angela but there is a 'mob mentality' here, I've experienced it, I've seen others experience it and it is certainly evident on this thread towards Julian.

I don't post that much on this forum simply because 'the usual suspects' will jump in and exhibit the mob mentality, and like Julian I've had PM's from people agreeing with my point of view but scared (yes scared) to post their reply publicly for fear of upsetting the 'in crowd'

JTRSYou are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Obviously, I vehemently disagree with it.

As you already know JTRS, you and I will never be best of friends - I personally find a lot of your posts very objectionable, and, although you say you don't post much, you can more or less guarantee that you will turn up on any subject where there is a pot to be stirred. Nevertheless, you are still a member on this forum; you haven't been banned for having differing views; and here you are.... free to express your opinions (within forum rules).

Why is it that just because some people have converging views on a particular subject and express them, they are considered a 'mob' by others who don't share the same views?

I'd also like to know who the 'in crowd' is, and whether or not I'm part of it? :confused:

Why on earth anybody would be "scared" to express an opinion from a vantage point of relative anonymity (ie behind a keyboard) is beyond me.

BTW, I'll let you into a little secret: we all receive PMs of support for things we post! :lol:

[StarZSoundS]

Like what????





it must be annoying for such a wonderful, talented, supreme businessman as yourself to have irritating, insignificant, small minded "pretend" business oiks getting involved... :bang:



:Censored:






Don't be sorry, that post is full of sarcasm which is exactly how it is intended,

but Julian is a closed shop to anything but his own opinion.


Therefore sir you are an idiot...


I'm sorry Angie....some posters have gone right OTT on this thread.....do you need some more examples???

Anyway....You're back now!!And tho we have had our run-ins (like with JTRS) I,for one,am delighted.:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

Equilibrim and restoring....come to mind;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[Steve the DJ]

You are lucky the forum is tightly moderated (usually...), otherwise what I actually wanted to say would have made your eyes bleed... :evelgrin:

[StarZSoundS]

You are lucky the forum is tightly moderated (usually...), otherwise what I actually wanted to say would have made your eyes bleed... :evelgrin:


So how about we wait till Angie gets back:beer1: :beer1: Then you can have your say!!

In the meantime could we all try to see the value of having somebody on the Forum who has a link to some of our customers....and not keep forcing him away with negative comments...

I'm prepared to listen to Julien as he has made his little fortune in marketing....it's something I feel lets me down.Were I DJing at Juliens next wedding(he is a serial Husband:devil: :devil: :devil:) I suspect he would listen to me as to wether to play SCLUB7,Bon Jovi,Motown OR Black lace:eek: :eek: ...Because THATS what I do well!!Horses for courses.:) :) :)


Its not personal Steve....there are others on here who have had a pop...yours immediately came to mind!!


Eyes and bleeding....didn't really understand that:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Steve the DJ]

So how about we wait till Angie gets back:beer1: :beer1: Then you can have your say!!

I can handle the boys but I don't mess with the ladyboss... ;)



In the meantime could we all try to see the value of having somebody on the Forum who has a link to some of our customers....and not keep forcing him away with negative comments...

The thing is I don't see negative comments, I just see members with different opinions asking questions and then a barricade going up.

If you believe so passionately in what you are selling and how you sell it then defend it with facts, demonstrations and results to win the debate, don't ignore or be condescending to those that question what you say.

Trying to prop up your argument with questionable or theoretical data is not going to help you either.


I'm prepared to listen to Julien as he has made his little fortune in marketing....it's something I feel lets me down.Were I DJing at Juliens next wedding(he is a serial Husband:devil: :devil: :devil:) I suspect he would listen to me as to wether to play SCLUB7,Bon Jovi,Motown OR Black lace:eek: :eek: ...Because THATS what I do well!!Horses for courses.:) :) :)

But this is the point a few of us have been trying to make, he hasn't proved in any way shape or form that this is what he does well (i.e. sell a good quality mobile disco service on anything other than price).

What he does very well is sell advertising, what is in question is the effectiveness of his product at the medium to higher end of the market. A few people that service this area have taken a punt and we will see over the next 12 months whether or not the investment was worthwhile.

If it is, then great, you have demonstratable proof the system works at all ends of the market, but at the moment you have nothing but sales spiel and I for one have heard it too many times with little or no results, apart from adding to his "millionaire" status that you keep telling us about!



Its not personal Steve....there are others on here who have had a pop...yours immediately came to mind!!

I never take anything said on a forum personally, it is far to easy to misinterpret the intentions behind a post, nor do I hate anyone or seek to bully them (honestly, I even speak to Rob when he rings... :D ), but if I disagree, I disagree and I will say so.



Eyes and bleeding....didn't really understand that:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

When really annoyed I have a range of swear words available that would melt the filter...

:lol:

[StarZSoundS]

Steve...

The truth is we have lost some of the Brides who used to pick up the Yellow Pages or local newspaper.Some have gone to sites like Juliens!!We can either cope with that change or not.

The way I see it Julian has tried to answer the questions posed.Releasing some of his figures may have rankled with the Mods and misinterpreted as Plugging...he has to be careful!!


Your last post is much more measured....maybe If you tried that approach Julien may be more inclined to enlighten you!!

Like I said its not personal...just trying to get the best out of a situation??

[DazzyD]

...I am flabbergasted with how we have reacted to Juilien coming on to The Forum.He has a lot to offer.We maybe had a lot to learn from the Guy(who incidentally is a Millionaire.....How many others on here!!) but we were too ready to blame him for the state of the market and his Brides attitudes.
...

I am flabbergasted that you think money is everything. My personal goal is to provide quality entertainment at reasonable prices - my head doesn't get turned with the thought of making millions (that reminds me, I still need to check last night's lottery! ;). Besides, in my day job I have to contact a number of millionaire business-folk and, from my experience (and I stress that wholeheartedly), with the odd exception, they are a bunch of egotistical morans who treat normal people like something they've stepped in. They are certainly not people who I would choose to be in the company of if I didn't have to. Now I haven't met Julian and I don't know him but, so far, he has remarked to being a millionaire several times in a short space of time and he also said you have to be nasty to survive in business. I'll make my own opinions.


Like what????
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Obviously, I vehemently disagree with it.

As you already know JTRS, you and I will never be best of friends - I personally find a lot of your posts very objectionable, and, although you say you don't post much, you can more or less guarantee that you will turn up on any subject where there is a pot to be stirred. Nevertheless, you are still a member on this forum; you haven't been banned for having differing views; and here you are.... free to express your opinions (within forum rules).

Why is it that just because some people have converging views on a particular subject and express them, they are considered a 'mob' by others who don't share the same views?

I'd also like to know who the 'in crowd' is, and whether or not I'm part of it? :confused:

Why on earth anybody would be "scared" to express an opinion from a vantage point of relative anonymity (ie behind a keyboard) is beyond me.

BTW, I'll let you into a little secret: we all receive PMs of support for things we post! :lol:

As far as the "in crowd" goes for me it's a song I regularly play during my Northern Soul sets!

I only get PMs when someone asks for help. No-one has ever PM'd me to agree with something I've posted. I feel left out! :(


I'm sorry Angie....some posters have gone right OTT on this thread.....do you need some more examples???

Anyway....You're back now!!And tho we have had our run-ins (like with JTRS) I,for one,am delighted.:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

Equilibrim and restoring....come to mind;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Have to admit, I'm with Steve on this one.


...In the meantime could we all try to see the value of having somebody on the Forum who has a link to some of our customers....and not keep forcing him away with negative comments...

I'm prepared to listen to Julien as he has made his little fortune in marketing....it's something I feel lets me down.Were I DJing at Juliens next wedding(he is a serial Husband:devil: :devil: :devil:) I suspect he would listen to me as to wether to play SCLUB7,Bon Jovi,Motown OR Black lace:eek: :eek: ...Because THATS what I do well!!Horses for courses.:) :) :)
...

Are you trying to be sarcastic, Martin? You appear to be full of praise for this man and the service he offers but then you continually spell his name wrong which, I could consider, to be insulting especially as Julian has his name at the bottom of every post he has made. Have I stumbled upon something here? :confused:

[DazzyD]

Steve...

The truth is we have lost some of the Brides who used to pick up the Yellow Pages or local newspaper.Some have gone to sites like Juliens!!We can either cope with that change or not.

The way I see it Julian has tried to answer the questions posed.Releasing some of his figures may have rankled with the Mods and misinterpreted as Plugging...he has to be careful!!


Your last post is much more measured....maybe If you tried that approach Julien may be more inclined to enlighten you!!

Like I said its not personal...just trying to get the best out of a situation??

Now you are transposing spellings. I'm really confused.com! :confused:

This really made me laugh! Steve is First Dance DJs (First Dance DJs - The Wedding & Civil Partnership specialists serving Surrey, Hampshire, Berkshire, Sussex & Buckinghamshire). I really don't think he needs "enlighten"ing by someone who openly admitted to not understanding our industry.

I was going to watch Laurel & Hardy today with my son but I'll think I'll just stick with this thread instead! :D

[StarZSoundS]

Have to admit, I'm with Steve on this one.



Are you trying to be sarcastic, Martin? You appear to be full of praise for this man and the service he offers but then you continually spell his name wrong which, I could consider, to be insulting especially as Julian has his name at the bottom of every post he has made. Have I stumbled upon something here? :confused:

Your first sentence.....I assume you mean Martin!!!


One thousand apologies to Julian...and no I wasn't being SARCASTIC.Genuine error!!:) :) :) :)

Loved the sentence about Millionaires Dazzy.As it happens I wandered onto the thread regarding day jobs...and yours mentioned working with benefit claimants!!You must have changed since that post....or maybe you haven't???Seeing what some of them get round here!! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[Steve the DJ]

The truth is we have lost some of the Brides who used to pick up the Yellow Pages or local newspaper.Some have gone to sites like Juliens!!We can either cope with that change or not.

I have no intention of chasing Brides who would choose their entertainment from the Yellow Pages or the local newpaper because experience shows that the vast majority that do are only interested in one thing, price.

Now if you want to pay your money to UKBride instead of the Yellow Pages to chase clients that want to pay 50% less on average than my starting price then that is your call.

Just don't get annoyed when I say it is of no value to me or my business.



Your last post is much more measured....maybe If you tried that approach Julien may be more inclined to enlighten you!!


This really made me laugh! Steve is First Dance DJs (First Dance DJs - The Wedding & Civil Partnership specialists serving Surrey, Hampshire, Berkshire, Sussex & Buckinghamshire). I really don't think he needs "enlighten"ing by someone who openly admitted to not understanding our industry.

:D

I am happy to learn from anyone, but I get the impression Julian doesn't like to talk unless you are already singing from his hymn sheet...

:shrug:

[DazzyD]

Your first sentence.....I assume you mean Martin!!!

No. I meant Steve. The Quote function doesn't show quotes within quotes. You had quoted Steve in your post and that is what I was referring to.

One thousand apologies to Julian...and no I wasn't being SARCASTIC.Genuine error!!:) :) :) :)

Loved the sentence about Millionaires Dazzy.As it happens I wandered onto the thread regarding day jobs...and yours mentioned working with benefit claimants!!You must have changed since that post....or maybe you haven't???Seeing what some of them get round here!! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

Yes I work in Benefits. Housing and Council Tax Benefits to be precise. This means having to communicate with private landlords many of which buy properties, put Benefit claimants in and then get the tax-payer (including me and you) to pay their mortgages. Once the property is paid for it is theirs forever. Some private landlords are ordinary folk who have bought property to rent out as an extra income or have been left property they don't need to live in so rent it out for a regularly income. Others, and there are quite of few of them, are already millionaires who see the Benefit system as a cash-cow to help them further their finances. Some even try to put members of their families in to their properties in order to claim Benefit that they (the landlord) will receive. Do you think that's okay?

[Shaun]

Back on topic please.

[OllieJames]

Your product wasn't for me....but it may have been when I was a bit younger and ambitious!!MAN...would I love to be in Charlies position now...and to be quite frank(though we've had our differences in the past) I think he is one of the few that is up to it(possibly Ollie and Scott too).

Martin, if I found the offer tempting, which I don't - I would be up for it, but as I've made clear - I'm not tempted - so I'm not going to bother.


Can't speak for the others but Ollie certainly doesn't need to be knocking out £199 weddings

Thanks, James :)


Thats up to Ollie.... but he may regret it too...When he's working for Charlie Brown Northampton or Glasgow or Penzeance in the future...

IT COULD HAPPEN ....look out!!

I'm sure Darren started out as a one man band too??:confused: :confused:

Martin, with all due respect that's pretty far-fetched. When you think about it, it's quite unlikely that'd be posssible due to the vast amount of DJs across the UK, that will no-doubt be taking most of the work in their own counties anyway.

What's my reason to regret it? I'm happy doing what I'm doing - and to be totally honest, with where my future job has the potential to go (you'll find out soon enough) - I don't know if I'll still be DJing as often as I have been next year.


Why should he regret it, he's worth more already and for his age doing well.

Walk before you can run.

Thanks for your comments, James. As I said above, I'm happy with what I'm doing at the minute - and appreciate the help/advice you and Matt have given me!

[STEVE HANLEY]

Back on topic please.

What the hell was this thread all about again?????:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Shaun]

What the hell was this thread all about again?????:confused: :confused: :confused:

It's definitely not about ways property developers milk the benefits system, which my post was to steer away from.

[DazzyD]

It's definitely not about ways property developers milk the benefits system, which my post was to steer away from.

In my defence, I was replying to a comment put to me earlier in the thread.

As you said, though, Shaun, back on topic!

:zip:

[Shaun]

In my defence, I was replying to a comment put to me earlier in the thread.




No worries. :)



As you said, though, Shaun, back on topic!

:zip:

:thumbsup:

[Charlie Brown]

Arghghg.

:sofa:

I'll be honest.

I've worked Thursday, Friday and I have a gig tonight. - I'm shattered.

These were booked ages ago (when I wasn't as competent - hence my pricing.) Thursday was a school disco for an hour and a half - £95. It cost me £30 just to get there and back. That's without buying some music they wanted - PLI - ProDub etc.

Friday was a 50th. The venue must have cost them £2,000+ - The OUTSTANDING 5 man tribute band with 3 roadies from London must have cost them £2,500+ for two 45 minutes sets....

.....I charged £185. I played a variety of background music, announced the band, bit of banter on the mic and had 2 hour disco time. Everybody who wasn't already dancing after the band got up and joined the rest onto the dancefloor. It was brilliant. The photographer there is going to email me some pictures and videos.

The bands agent wants me to ring him on Monday to discuss working with him in the future. The venue staff want me to go back and discus future Xmas parties with them because I was "a hundred times better than the usual company who provide discos."

Managed to play some great tunes: Promised Land - Joe Smooth and a bit of the Pet Shop Boys were the biggest hits. Several complements from the guest as I managed to play all 6 requests....I even got a kiss off the birthday girl. :o

I was worth more than that....

It sounded fantastic with my new mackies and sub...the lights looked awesome with the par can's up-lighting the ceiling and beams....Mircaled led behind me...The two EFX's were great with the Imposibled filling the dancefloor.

I played 70's, mainly 80's and a bit of 90's - Finishing with Queen and Hey Jude.

I did the most work (compared to the band who were packed away and out the door by 11.00pm) and got the best response.

I don't want to sound boastful or full of myself - but the prospect of doing that for £199 made me feel a bit worthless.

I'll pop some pictures up later.

[wensleydale]

i think some other people tried to point out something similar too charlie- for the previous 300 posts.

[Charlie Brown]

i think some other people tried to point out something similar too charlie- for the previous 300 posts.

Yeah - you're right.

Whilst I see how Julian could be right...and would be great for a midweek thing - for a Saturday night..it just couldn't/wouldn't work.

[Shaun]

I don't want to sound boastful or full of myself - but the prospect of doing that for £199 made me feel a bit worthless.


FINALLY!!

I wonder how heightened that feeling will be after you've done 3, 10, 15 gigs at that price.

If you're providing a professional service that goes beyond the clients expectations, you ought to be compensated more than just "pocket money". It's not my business though and only you can decide the best pricing structure for your services. I just hate to see talent under-selling themselves.

Best of luck whichever direction you take, Charlie.

[DJ James Lake]

Yeah - you're right.

Whilst I see how Julian could be right...and would be great for a midweek thing - for a Saturday night..it just couldn't/wouldn't work.

amen

[StarZSoundS]

Yeah - you're right.

Whilst I see how Julian could be right...and would be great for a midweek thing - for a Saturday night..it just couldn't/wouldn't work.

I trust you have told him first.....before posting it on here Mate!!:) :) :)


Nobody lives them highs like you Mr Brown ..... sometimes a bit of caution is in order tho.

Nonetheless....:Censored: well done!!:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I trust you have told him first.....before posting it on here Mate!!:) :) :)




Er and why would he have to do that for?

[Charlie Brown]

I may still go with the mid-week offer exclusive for UKbride...just not Saturdays.

Let's face it - It's not going to be every weekend.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I may still go with the mid-week offer exclusive for UKbride...just not Saturdays. IMHO, that would be a better option for you..... providing you are able to cover mid-week bookings without sacrificing school

[JTRS]

The point which has tried to be put across is that education to potential brides is what is needed, not cutting costs , the reactions on the whole have been totally justified if you read the whole topic. All we have asked is to be listened to.

Unfortunately on numerous occasions, because it doesn't fit with the current marketing strategy of UKBride it has fallen upon deaf ears a lot of the time. What Julian should have done from the start is addressed the reactions some of us have had viewed to the cheapening of our industry was to look at how more quality leads could be generated. He has the power to change the way brides look at entertainment.

If Julian can manage to shift the results of the poles so that more brides start seeing the importance of not cutting costs with entertainment, and by that I dont just mean DJ's I will be first in the queue to advertise.

Personally I think the best solution to this would be a some of the higher earning shows to meet up with Julian and to discuss what the higher end needs from an advertising package for it to be attractive. Perhaps even invite him along to a few functions to see the extra work we put in.

With all due respect I don't see why we would expect Julian to do this (ie change the way that brides look at entertainment).

Julian runs a very successful website that is aimed at brides to be, how much a bride is going to spend on a DJ doesn't affect him or his core business one way or the other.

How exactly does Julian's business benefit if he suddenly convinced every single bride on his website that they need to spend more money on their entertainment? Julian's a shrewd businessman and would probably weigh up the cost of doing something against the financial returns it brings to him for doing it in the first place and the only return I see him getting (based on the comments in this thread) is a few more of us would advertise with him, but is that enough to justify him putting the work in to try and make that happen???

I'm actually surprised and impressed that he has given so much information and also organised a poll for us on his website and whilst his motivation wasn't entirely altruistic he wasn't exactly doing it for financial gain either.

JTRS

[StarZSoundS]

Er and why would he have to do that for?


:jawdrop: Common courteousy....surely??

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

:jawdrop: Common courteousy....surely??

It has nothing to do with that.

He shouldn't have to report to anyone 'first' about his decisions.

[StarZSoundS]

It has nothing to do with that.

He shouldn't have to report to anyone 'first' about his decisions.



Ok Darren......I think you're wrong....




But theres been so much grief on this thread.....That I'll just say...

"Sorry".

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ok Darren......I think you're wrong....




But theres been so much grief on this thread.....That I'll just say...

"Sorry".

Julian offered his advice and time - it wasn't sought after.

Charlie is his own man and can do what he wants to do.

And no need to apologise for being wrong.

[StarZSoundS]

Charlie is his own man and can do what he wants to do.



Accept that.....

But I thought it would be more polite to let Julian know first rather than everyone on here.

Its just the way I run my business!!

If thats wrong I do need to apologise...so again Sorry!!;) ;) ;)

[wensleydale]

Charlie- regardless of the right or wrong of this particular thread, my one piece of advise would be just to put a bit more thought into the financial side of your business- it seems pretty clear that you can do the practical side but you always seem to rush into things and often end up with gigs that make you little or no money.

I dont doubt that UK Bride can work for most of the businesses on here, but like most things in life there is a balance to be struck.

Personally I still think you should give uni a try (and do discos at the same time) but good luck to you whatever you decide.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Accept that.....

But I thought it would be more polite to let Julian know first rather than everyone on here.

Its just the way I run my business!!

If thats wrong I do need to apologise...so again Sorry!!;) ;) ;)

If that's the way you run your business then fair enough, but perhaps it isn't everyone's way.

[StarZSoundS]

If that's the way you run your business then fair enough, but perhaps it isn't everyone's way.

Darren...please....:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: OK.;)

[DJ James Lake]

With all due respect I don't see why we would expect Julian to do this (ie change the way that brides look at entertainment).

Julian runs a very successful website that is aimed at brides to be, how much a bride is going to spend on a DJ doesn't affect him or his core business one way or the other.

How exactly does Julian's business benefit if he suddenly convinced every single bride on his website that they need to spend more money on their entertainment? Julian's a shrewd businessman and would probably weigh up the cost of doing something against the financial returns it brings to him for doing it in the first place and the only return I see him getting (based on the comments in this thread) is a few more of us would advertise with him, but is that enough to justify him putting the work in to try and make that happen???

I'm actually surprised and impressed that he has given so much information and also organised a poll for us on his website and whilst his motivation wasn't entirely altruistic he wasn't exactly doing it for financial gain either.

JTRS

Err advertsing revenue. Which is where he makes his money.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren...please....:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: OK.;)

I'm not really sure why you are offering beers and apologies. I am not getting annoyed, just saying my piece as you are. :)

[Charlie Brown]

I'll be having a chat with Julian soon....

I thought we'd already agreed I wasn't going to do Saturdays at £199? Julian has seen the web page Martin has kindly put together and has acknowledged he likes it? :confused:

Julian knows I respect him for what he has done and achieve.

I was just expressing my feelings after last nights gig...

[JTRS]

Err advertsing revenue. Which is where he makes his money.

Yes I know how he makes his money, and if (make that IF) Julian persuades brides to spend more on the DJ then he might get a few more DJ's advertising with him.

What I was saying was that there is a cost/benefit analysis to do and when Julian does this (in reality he probably has done it already) he will weigh up the cost (including time and effort) that it will take against the potential returns. Since the only potential return he will get is the possible sale of more advertising to DJ's he'll be asking himself is it worth it, given that his site is already attractive to a good spread of different businesses (not just DJ's).

That was the point I was trying to make

JTRS

[Jambo]

My concern with the advice that Julian gave Charlie was that there was no compromise!

It was either take Julians advice or the advice of the members of this forum, he could not see that Charlie was free to pick bits from all the advice he has been given and formulate his own business plan to suit his needs.

My own advice is that Charlie would be better to offer UK Bride users a discount rather than a cheap £199 disco!

Here is a scenario that bears a similar resemblance to the situation here!

We also run a Wedding Car hire business within the London area, its a bit of a niche market, we in fact offer London style taxis for weddings from Vintage Taxis to Modern Day!

When we first started there were 2 other companies offering the same service, we decided from the start that we were not going to compete with them on price (in fact we were more expensive) but that we would compete on service, reliability and communication! We did extremely well to he point where the other 2 companies decided to give it up! We were doing around 400 weddings per year with many being multiple vehicle bookings!

Now 10 years on there are many other people in London who have purchased White London Taxis and are offering their service at a lot lower rate than ours, now what has this had the effect of doing for the operators and the customers?

Well for the customer we have heard a lot of stories where the customer has been let down at the last minute or that the vehicle has turned up late, dirty, not decorated properly so for he customer although they have a lot more choice the level of service for them has not got better.

From the operators point of view such as ours the effect has been that we have seen a decline in business, we still will not compete on price as I feel that the price we charge is value for money for the service that we offer! we are still getting the lions share of the work but nowhere near as many bookings as a few years ago, this may be partly due to the economic downturn but a lot is due to the increased competition offering their service at a reduced rate.

So what should we do? lower our prices to compete on price? No we are going to stick with our original plan and continue to offer our premium service at our prices, many of the new operators will eventually give it up as they are single vehicle operators with little or no backup and do not realise the commitment on their part of undertaking wedding bookings! So we will stick with our original plan and hopefully reap the benefits once again soon!

We offer our clients full backup of having a mechanic available on the day and the fact that we always keep at least 1 vehicle back just in case of an emergency which from past experience is vital!

Now how does this relate to this thread, well in previous posts Julian has stated that the members of this forum are all competitors of Charlie's which to some extent is true but then members of this forum have also offered Charlie some invaluable advice and others have given him practical help!

If you work as a mobile DJ for long enough there will come a time when something will go wrong for you and that is when being a member of this forum will help, the acquaintance's that Charlie has made via this forum basically form his back up service where he can turn for help should the need arise, they are also the group where he can bounce ideas off and ask questions about a particular event that he may not feel sure about!

Where the price is concerned and his UK Bride offer how does this affect everyone else, well Charlie could well be inundated with enquiries for his £199 Disco, so much so that he cannot cope with the amount of enquiries that he receives that he has to turn a lot of the potential clients away! now these clients still need a Dj but have seen Charlie's £199 offer and now have it in their head that they do not want to pay anymore than the advertised price which inadvertently affects the members of this forum who do charge more as they are extremely unlikely to convince these potential clients that they need to pay more!

So as I have already stated, unless the discount is for a very time limited period and targeted at a specific audience then it really is no good for the industry as a whole, it will of course benefit Julian as he can offer his brides a good DJ at an extremely reduced price, and also take Charlie's money for the advertising so it is win, win for Julian.

Now Julian, you may well feel that my comments towards you are negative but they are not, I understand that you gave Charlie a lot of time and advice but for me the main problem with the advice that you gave Charlie is that is was your way or the highway, no compromise on the advice you gave!

[Vectis]

My concern ...

Great considered response Jambo :)




Where the price is concerned and his UK Bride offer how does this affect everyone else, well Charlie could well be inundated with enquiries for his £199 Disco, so much so that he cannot cope with the amount of enquiries that he receives that he has to turn a lot of the potential clients away! now these clients still need a Dj but have seen Charlie's £199 offer and now have it in their head that they do not want to pay anymore than the advertised price which inadvertently affects the members of this forum who do charge more as they are extremely unlikely to convince these potential clients that they need to pay more!

So as I have already stated, unless the discount is for a very time limited period and targeted at a specific audience then it really is no good for the industry as a whole.


Charlie's advertised offer is £199 between now and the end of November, Sunday - Friday only (protecting his primary product), distance-limited and service level limited (ie certain elements removed), and timebound. He's also making it abundantly clear that this is a £100 discount on his usual starting rate, so no-one will be surprised to hear £299 quotes in the future/from other DJs.

Charlie was very keen to try out the concept, but with a bit of compromise he's taken steps to do so without harming his core business. So let's all sit back and see how it unfolds :beer1:

[Marc J]

Back on topic please.

OK :)


Here’s my new website designed by Martin (Vectis Vibe) – It’s smashing and I love it to bits...but may not fit in with my “Brand” hence the two companies running alongside each other.

http://www.charliebrownsentertainment.com/index.php


3) I'm not usually a stickler for validation but 160 errors? Mostly all fixed by using self closing tags so easy enough!


And the customer sometimes lets the cat out of the bag a little bit too soon for my liking... ;) Once the branding issues are sorted and agreed there's still a fair bit of optimisation and tweaking to be done on the code.

Much better now (http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.charliebrownsentertainm ent.com%2Findex.php&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0), so close it's probably worth sorting out the remaining 'errors' which are just down to a single issue - to make the page validate as XHTML change your javascript to:-


<script type="text/javascript">
//<![CDATA[
...javascript goes here...
//]]>
</script>

Or put it in an external js file.

[DJ James Lake]

Yes I know how he makes his money, and if (make that IF) Julian persuades brides to spend more on the DJ then he might get a few more DJ's advertising with him.

What I was saying was that there is a cost/benefit analysis to do and when Julian does this (in reality he probably has done it already) he will weigh up the cost (including time and effort) that it will take against the potential returns. Since the only potential return he will get is the possible sale of more advertising to DJ's he'll be asking himself is it worth it, given that his site is already attractive to a good spread of different businesses (not just DJ's).

That was the point I was trying to make

JTRS

The whole thing with advertising is that you want to be able to offer the best responses for advertisers. Julian would only gain by educating brides, he wouldn't alienate the lower end operators, there will always be operators who will cater to that market but if brides start to see on the UKBride forum that other brides in general are taking entertainment more seriously it may make them think twice before booking £60 sid in the first place.

I will stick my neck out and say that most of the dj's on this forum are probably charging a lot more than £200 for a wedding. Thats a lot of advertising revenue lost from those who at the moment simply wouldnt be interested because of the target audience, money lost that shouldnt be sniffed at. I dont know the figures at present but I would think he hasnt even scratched the surface of the users of this forum, and when the prices go to full price in a years time he will struggle to get repeat advertising if he continues to target the lower end.

I have run a very high quality magazine in the past and believe me a few strategically place articles are hardly going to involve much effort or cost , the actual costs are in labour and the print costs (which are the highest part), with the web the costs are dramtically reduced. The articles would actually be providing valuable information to the brides using his site.

[jc light and sound]

Julian,
All i can say mate is your a master at what you do, you have virtually all that are on this forum talking about you or your business which from a marketing point of view is great or is it.
See the thing is not all brides or grooms like the idea of budget entertainment i personally don't do cheap discos either on price or quality what i offer is a professional approach to my clients giving them advice and my 20 odd years experience to make sure there big day is exactly what they want together with my state of the art equipment.
Now without being a snob £200 pound discos most people dont really care what they get for this they just want music and cheapness fine if thats your market.
Move up the scale and you will find that clients who are prepared to pay more want a more professional approach and definitely call the shots with how they want it.
Its like buying a fiat panda or buying a bmw to me this is a profession i don't play at it i don't do it for a ego boost i earn a living doing something which i enjoy (bonus) so to me quite frankly i wouldn't entertain a wedding for £200 and i can honestly say that i don't struggle for work and earn at least double or treble that fee as the saying goes any fool can work for nothing and you don't get to be a millionaire by being a fool do you Julian.

[Jambo]

Great considered response Jambo :)




Charlie's advertised offer is £199 between now and the end of November, Sunday - Friday only (protecting his primary product), distance-limited and service level limited (ie certain elements removed), and timebound. He's also making it abundantly clear that this is a £100 discount on his usual starting rate, so no-one will be surprised to hear £299 quotes in the future/from other DJs.

Charlie was very keen to try out the concept, but with a bit of compromise he's taken steps to do so without harming his core business. So let's all sit back and see how it unfolds :beer1:


I am glad that Charlie has taken on board all the advice given to him, and yes I will be very interested to see what the end result is for Charlie and his Business, I wish him every success!

[JTRS]

I dont know the figures at present but I would think he hasnt even scratched the surface of the users of this forum, and when the prices go to full price in a years time he will struggle to get repeat advertising if he continues to target the lower end.




I must have missed something somewhere, I didn't realise that UKBrides was targetting the lower end of the wedding spectrum, I thought he was targetting all (or as many) weddings as he could, regardless of their budgets.

JTRS

[DJ James Lake]

I must have missed something somewhere, I didn't realise that UKBrides was targetting the lower end of the wedding spectrum, I thought he was targetting all (or as many) weddings as he could, regardless of their budgets.

JTRS

In theory maybe but not in practice

[Charlie Brown]

Thought I'd dig this thread up again.

I've re read the whole thing and there's quite a lot of interesting points.

This time last year, I probably had 30 weddings booked in at £350-800, best being £1200. This year I've probably got 7?

I've had loads of enquiries over the past week but nobody has booked. Obviously somebody else is taking the work, more than likely a cheaper jock.

Instead of trying to change their mentality and outlook on their business, why not work with them under a different name and umbrella.

They're going to get booked up regardless by people booking cheaper discos, so it makes more sense for me to have £50/75 of that booking instead of sitting at home feeling sorry myself.

I think we forget that a lot of cheaper jocks aren't necessarly bad, they just don't know what to charge. Work with them and not against them?

[Mark Wild]

Seems word got around quick that you're rubbish Charlie :p

[Ecstatic Events]

Seems word got around quick that you're rubbish Charlie :p

I know you say this in jest Mark. However, you may have a point. I have found that when you do a bloody good job, the work snowballs in through referrals etc.

Most of my work comes in this way currently. Only a poor salesman drops his pants on pricing and by 'eck I know of a few. Offer additional services for free by all means, but stick to you guns on pricing Charlie :D

[Charlie Brown]

I know you say this in jest Mark. However, you may have a point. I have found that when you do a bloody good job, the work snowballs in through referrals etc.


Charming! :lol:

Nah, I'm not worried about the job I do. I had 25/26 emails/texts last year saying 'thank you' which is a lot more than others.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Isn't it the best way to get work at the end of the day??
Someone books you, you do a good job, they like you and pass on your number and it carries on like that. I still have people that booked me in my first year of business.

I'd like to know how you (Charlie) managed to get jobs in the £350.00 - £800.00 price band? What is involved in getting jobs at that price?

[Charlie Brown]

I'd like to know how you (Charlie) managed to get jobs in the £350.00 - £800.00 price band? What is involved in getting jobs at that price?

Flat wedding rate of £350 - no frills, just meeting, turn up, do a wedding

All day wedding £650/675

Add mood lighting takes you up to £800ish

Add a dancefloor £1200ish

Or disco + dancefloor 800ish

You get the idea. :)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Yep! and thanks for the insight.

[JDB Entertainment]

Here comes opening a whole can of worms Charlie.

There is another thread stating how many of us are getting enquires however not much converstion at the moment.

Of course these people are booking other companies, however look at it this way...

A potential customer wants to pay £x for a DJ, you charge £xx and will not get the booking. Mr DJ who charges £x will and guess what that is one less competition for when the next £x customer wants a DJ and they have to pay £xx ;)

Hold out, and don't just lower your prices stupidly.

Even people like myself, Ben and Dan who own Dancefloors are having enquiries but not converting.

Only the other day I had a call from a possible client for a starlight dance floor, to find out that even though mine, Ben's and Dan's prices are very similar and not much in them, the said client had another quote from another company for half the price! Madness in my eyes, however they must be struggling as I know for a fact there prices are normally on a par with me, Ben and Dan.

Just another example. :)

[Charlie Brown]

I think I need to be more 'active' with my advertising.

I'm trying to eliminate all avenues before reluctantly going back to a 'normal 9 to 5' job.

It's very easy to say 'get yourself a couple of residency's' but most people don't want to know!

[Mark Wild]

Even people like myself, Ben and Dan who own Dancefloors are having enquiries but not converting.


Ah right, so if you own a dance floor you're more likely to convert an enquiry? Interesting. :lol:

[JDB Entertainment]

Charlie, I set my company up as a full time occupation from the word go. Never was part time. It can be done!

[Charlie Brown]

Ah right, so if you own a dance floor you're more likely to convert an enquiry? Interesting. :lol:

There more likely to convert work because the enquiries aren't 100% disco based.

PA hire, stages etc


Charlie, I set my company up as a full time occupation from the word go. Never was part time. It can be done!

Yeah, but you're obviously doing something I'm not. You're doing it right, I'm not. :sj:

[JDB Entertainment]

Ah right, so if you own a dance floor you're more likely to convert an enquiry? Interesting. :lol:

Not saying it is, its just a small example.

If the said company did not own the dance floor for example they would not be able to have quoted that figure without making a loss when hiring it in.

In a nut shell.

[JDB Entertainment]

I learnt 90% of what I do from reading the forum! :)

[Mark Wild]

Charlie, I set my company up as a full time occupation from the word go. Never was part time. It can be done!

I thought you were an actor doing films at the moment :confused:

[JDB Entertainment]

I thought you were an actor doing films at the moment :confused:

Yes I do acting, however it doesnt pay the bills and is not my main source of income.

The acting industry is a very hit and miss career Mark.

I think you are knit picking here.

My point to Charlie was to stick to his guns and not jump ship of prices, just because converstions are not happening etc.

[Danno13]

There more likely to convert work because the enquiries aren't 100% disco based.

PA hire, stages etc



What makes you say that? :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Yes I do acting, however it doesnt pay the bills and is not my main source of income.

The acting industry is a very hit and miss career Mark.

I think you are knit picking here.



I don't think he is. You can't make a bold statement like yours when it's not really true. Another income stream is another income stream...;)

[JDB Entertainment]

I don't think he is. You can't make a bold statement like yours when it's not really true. Another income stream is another income stream...;)

And so I will leave the conversation, as really this was about Charlie and not me.

[Mark Wild]

Not nit picking at all, your below statement is just simply not true, so isn't really sound advice to young Charlie, who is indeed now a full time DJ, one who has hit a sticky patch and needs good honest advice.


Charlie, I set my company up as a full time occupation from the word go. Never was part time. It can be done!

[Charlie Brown]

James, they are kind of right. You have earnt a lot of money from acting, and rightly so! :)

[JDB Entertainment]

Charlie, I have earnt a lot of money from the acting, but if it wasn't for my bread and butter of JDB Entertainment I wouldn't have been able to pursue the acting dream.

And trust me from my accounts, even without the acting work I earn a decent wage.

And not going to get into technicallities of how much i spend on travelling to auditions, that i never get the jobs, etc. as pointless.

My point Charlie is, hold out for it mate and watch ;) And always be active!

[Charlie Brown]

Gottcha. ;)

[DJDC]

I've done a few jobs for james, he works hard, and has the right ethos, i've been DJ'ing for 27 years on my own and also for part of that worked in the wider indurty theatre, TV conferencing etc, so seem many outfits, and different ways of operating. However have enjoyed working under his banner, and certainly the clients he works for appear to have a lot of tinme for him, so he must be doing something right.

There are several ways of looking at business outfits, purely a mobile Dj (which was more traditional you do just that, go back a few years certainly I don't remember any Disco I knew doing anything else) however as time goes on many diversify i.e provide dance floors uplighting and other services I think Karaoke, and the quiz nights that emerged helped drive some of this. Also as seperate entities were the PA and video hire etc, to me dance floors would have traditionally fallen to Av companies when hotels and the like did not have their own. As time has gone on some services now offered by DJ's are not just mobile disco. many Dj's can provide presentations projectors, screens, TV's, PA systems,

Consider how many that now offer dance floors/ uplighting, and often just are employed to do just that and not provide a disco.I've seen having a wider list of services to offer increases your chance of different types of work but not always providing a disco. in all the years i've been working have never been asked for a dancefloor, so never needed to offer one, but I do now make it known I know a man who can!

I've been asked for photgrahers, video production, and PA hire but as a rule i've seen the clients go to specific companies for specific services, I did have a spell in the 1990's where I was providing specific theatre style lighting for football presentations, and 'followspots' and even a dabble with band lighting. I find it interesting that there are more and more DJ's who provide additional services, but note they are usually full timers, so to me this says to really make a decent living it's best to have other options.

Been a part timer - just DJ'ing suits me, was I not working a 9-5 I too would be doing PA, Av etc. Whilst i only read the last 2 pages of this post hope it's not too much off topic, been a long day!

[NKR]

Charlie, I have earnt a lot of money from the acting, but if it wasn't for my bread and butter of JDB Entertainment I wouldn't have been able to pursue the acting dream.

And trust me from my accounts, even without the acting work I earn a decent wage.

And not going to get into technicallities of how much i spend on travelling to auditions, that i never get the jobs, etc. as pointless.

My point Charlie is, hold out for it mate and watch ;) And always be active!


Gottcha. ;)

I do see this a lot and its not having a go at anyone or anything. One mans decent wage is not another mans. A decent wage is never defined.

What is a decent wage for you Charlie. What's your target income per annum?

[DazzyD]

I do see this a lot and its not having a go at anyone or anything. One mans decent wage is not another mans. A decent wage is never defined.

What is a decent wage for you Charlie. What's your target income per annum?

This is a really good point. I have a day job at £16.5k per annum gross. Add this to the modest income I make from DJing and I've a pretty decent income for me. But this will likely be a lot less than some on here make. For example, the national average wage in the UK for 2011 was approx £26,000 (as per the Office for National Statistics) so my earnings from my day job is well below this (in fact, not much over half!! :eek:). But, where I live here in Sunderland, the major industry is now the Contact Centre industry, where many staff are paid between £12-16k per annum gross so I'm earning more than those.

But, at the end of the day, I'm happy with my income. I'll never get rich but it pays the bills, gives me a bit of disposable income, and allows me to continue in a job I love (the Djing, of course. The day job, not so much!!).

[Charlie Brown]

I do see this a lot and its not having a go at anyone or anything. One mans decent wage is not another mans. A decent wage is never defined.

What is a decent wage for you Charlie. What's your target income per annum?

I'd rather not say but for the past year, I've been earning and spending (50% waste and 50% business/living costs)

The ludicrous spending has had to come to an abrupt holt! If I had reinvested all the money I'd earnt last year into my business, I'd be laughing now...not crying. :lol:

I'd love to be like Grandad who used to earn millions but he's a tight bugger so I doubt it'll ever happen. I just need to come down to reality and 'grow up' - which is easier said than done.

[Excalibur]

I just need to come down to reality and 'grow up' - which is easier said than done.

I've been trying to grow up for over fifty years Charlie, and I've still not managed it. :o :o :o :o

[Charlie Brown]

I've been trying to grow up for over fifty years Charlie, and I've still not managed it. :o :o :o :o

Well that's reassuring. :D :D

[NKR]

This is a really good point. I have a day job at £16.5k per annum gross. Add this to the modest income I make from DJing and I've a pretty decent income for me. But this will likely be a lot less than some on here make. For example, the national average wage in the UK for 2011 was approx £26,000 (as per the Office for National Statistics) so my earnings from my day job is well below this (in fact, not much over half!! :eek:). But, where I live here in Sunderland, the major industry is now the Contact Centre industry, where many staff are paid between £12-16k per annum gross so I'm earning more than those.

But, at the end of the day, I'm happy with my income. I'll never get rich but it pays the bills, gives me a bit of disposable income, and allows me to continue in a job I love (the Djing, of course. The day job, not so much!!).

I like your posts as they come with honesty and integrity. No bull from you and I like that.


I'd rather not say but for the past year, I've been earning and spending (50% waste and 50% business/living costs)

The ludicrous spending has had to come to an abrupt holt! If I had reinvested all the money I'd earnt last year into my business, I'd be laughing now...not crying. :lol:

I'd love to be like Grandad who used to earn millions but he's a tight bugger so I doubt it'll ever happen. I just need to come down to reality and 'grow up' - which is easier said than done.

Really? We would all like to earn millions. Middle paragraph implies you made some serious cash and should have invested it. We should all invest more wisely.
I will come clean on a question/statement/implication/whatever it was that was once made on this forum by someone else. The car was bought with my bonus that year. I should have invested it as I had to sell it 9 months later for family reasons and lost a packet. We all waste money on silly things some times. Its how you learn from it.


I've been trying to grow up for over fifty years Charlie, and I've still not managed it. :o :o :o :o

We never do that. God that would be depressing.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

He might be a "Tight Bugger" as you call him Charlie BUT....he obviously knows how to look after his money.
As you said..."Easier said than done".

I had someone ask me today about dancefloors whilst I was sorting out Uplighting. Now, I don't want to sound funny but people ARE looking for decent deals etc. IF I had a dancefloor then I could do both the dancefloor and the Uplighting but I don't (currently) have one. That will change soon in the near future.

This may be a different look on it but a lot of customers I have dealt with over the years have wanted to use the same company for various services. For example: I've been asked about the Disco side of things and then asked about Uplighting, Casinos, Projection, Mobile Bars etc and the customer has ended up using me to do everything (my contact for the Mobile Bar / Casino etc).

Someone earlier on in the thread (sorry I can't remember who?), mentioned that someone else was more or less supplying a Disco for £200.00 because the customer had booked a dancefloor too. Does it matter that much?
What I mean is, I have said on here in the past (and it didn't go down too well with certain people), that I was offering (for example) Uplighting or Projection at a discounted rate to up the price of the booking. Isn't it all about earning potential?

If you (for example) charge £350.00 for a wedding and the customer wants some Uplighting too yet you normally charge (for example) £250.00 for that too but it's out of their budget range, what's wrong with discounting it a bit so that you get more than you would. If you are at the venue supplying the Disco anyway, even if you earnt an extra £150.00 instead of £250.00, you've still earnt more than you would have and the customer has got a good deal.
Ok, so when you really break it down and go through hourly rates etc and the time it may take to set it all up etc, it may not be everyone's cup of tea and I am also not saying that you should do it all the time. There are certain venues I know that I can set up something like Uplighting in no time at all so the extra earning potential is there.

The majority of my work is at the weekends and on those weekends I want to earn as much as I possibly can. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that at all.

[Charlie Brown]

I like your posts as they come with honesty and integrity. No bull from you and I like that.


I'd agree with that. Probably one of the most honest posters on this forum




Really? We would all like to earn millions. Middle paragraph implies you made some serious cash and should have invested it. We should all invest more wisely.


True but there is a difference between investing money (you bought something to show for your bonus...a car. I had nothing to show apart from a soar head. A lot went at the casino. Not because I'm a gambler but I love the people there. Apart from the odd idiot, a lot of them are 'business minded' who can hold interesting and decent conversation. The amount of business cards I'd wake up with in the morning became a joke. I think it's a similar environment to a golf course, (if that makes sense?)




The majority of my work is at the weekends and on those weekends I want to earn as much as I possibly can. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that at all.

And I completely agree with you. I know Toby does similar. Free uplighting when they book an all day wedding perhaps. I'll have a serious re-consider. I think this month has just been a smack in the face.

[ppentertainments]

And I completely agree with you. I know Toby does similar. Free uplighting when they book an all day wedding perhaps. I'll have a serious re-consider. I think this month has just been a smack in the face.
I am finding this year, more than ever, I am having to be more flexible with services. to combat this I charge quite a high 'starting price' which is all I need to earn, anything else is a bonus, throwing something in to clinch the booking and I am still not losing.

[NKR]

True but there is a difference between investing money (you bought something to show for your bonus...a car. I had nothing to show apart from a soar head. A lot went at the casino. Not because I'm a gambler but I love the people there. Apart from the odd idiot, a lot of them are 'business minded' who can hold interesting and decent conversation. The amount of business cards I'd wake up with in the morning became a joke. I think it's a similar environment to a golf course, (if that makes sense?)


]

The blindness of youth. I know a regular casino visitor. Soon to be very bust taking his business and relationships with it if something I saw on someones text pans out. Casino's are a mugs game. My taxi driver on the way out of Vegas summed it up. Conversation went like this.

Him 'Did you win'
Me 'I didn't play'
Him 'You didn't play. Why did you come to Vegas'
Me 'For the experience, the atmosphere. I work in property I wanted to see these amazing hotels'
Him 'Well you won then. Each one of these hotels is a monument to the losers'

He was so right. They are all paid for by losers. Lovely insight from a cab driver.

Keep out of casino's Charles.

Cars aren't an invesment they are a depreciating asset.

Buy things that appreciate - lease things that depreciate. At 35 I am just getting my head round it. I wish I had leant earlier.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

That's exactly what I said a while back.
It's all about giving the customer a good deal. Pretty hard to explain right now without putting myself up there for another battering off certain people.
Not sure what Toby does and didn't know he offered that but what I will say is, fair play to him.
I don't often do all day weddings but if I did then the price would be a lot more than I usually charge because the customer is paying for my time. If offering an extra service clinches a deal then why not? As long as you are getting what YOU want out of it and are happy with that and the customer is happy then cool.
If you are there anyway and the extra service doesn't take up too much time and effort, why not?

[Charlie Brown]

Casino's are a mugs game.


True but they are a fun place to be if you have a few bob. Everybody knows you, the staff always call you by your first name (probably because I talk to everybody) I keep telling myself I'm not going to go but after a few drinks in Nottingham it's always the last place open for a beer and I do enjoy the game.

I did consider banning myself for six months.



If you are there anyway and the extra service doesn't take up too much time and effort, why not?

You've hit the nail on the head. I did a wedding on the 30th December and when I met the couple a week before I offered my all day package for £99. I wasn't doing anything else in the day so I'd rather sit in a room and let the laptop play background music for another £100 squid. I had a good two chat with the photographer actually!

[NKR]

True but they are a fun place to be if you have a few bob. Everybody knows you, the staff always call you by your first name (probably because I talk to everybody) I keep telling myself I'm not going to go but after a few drinks in Nottingham it's always the last place open for a beer and I do enjoy the game.


No because they want your :Censored: money. They are trained to make you feel special as you spend a :Censored: load more if you think you are special.

[Charlie Brown]

No because they want your :Censored: money. They are trained to make you feel special as you spend a :Censored: load more if you think you are special.

:agree:

But I know for a fact, I'm one of a few they'll chat to/ask if I fancy a smoke when they're other people loosing tens of thousands.

[NKR]

:agree:

But I know for a fact, I'm one of a few they'll chat to/ask if I fancy a smoke when they're other people loosing tens of thousands.

Carry on!
I work for a Casino group remember. Grosvenor are one of my corporate clients (as a hobby too - quite proud of that). You are young. Get you addicted early. Not like you have an addictive personality or anything (what with drinking and smoking - gambling should be easy to get you hooked on).

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Carry on!
I work for a Casino group remember. Grosvenor are one of my corporate clients (as a hobby too - quite proud of that). You are young. Get you addicted early. Not like you have an addictive personality or anything (what with drinking and smoking - gambling should be easy to get you hooked on).

Neil, Charlie smokes and drinks and gambles 'cos it's a whim. Remember, that's what he told us? So that's OK....

It's not like he comes on here complaining of no money and no business is it...

[NKR]

Neil, Charlie smokes and drinks and gambles 'cos it's a whim. Remember, that's what he told us? So that's OK....

It's not like he comes on here complaining of no money and no business is it...

The impetuosity of youth. What can you do with them.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Charlie, you seem to realise already that you may have a problem on the casino side of things but in the next breath you seem to be trying to convince yourself that the Casino treats you differently to every other punter - They DON'T. They look at you and see £££ Signs and because you are young I would say that they also think you have plenty of disposable income. If you have had chats with the staff then I am pretty sure that after a few drinks you have told them what you do, where you live etc so they know all the details.

I've visited a Casinos in the past, the first time I went..well, luck must have been shining down on me because I won a lot of money but it's not always like that and I soon learnt what it was like. Luckily I realised long before I lost loads of money but I'll tell you this little horror story mate. If this doesn't scare you then I'm sorry but you are on a very swift road to ruin......Sounds harsh but true.....

I used to go regularly to a bookies in my town. I never spent loads of money but I got to know a lot of people that were regulars there. Taxi Drivers who would finish their shifts and be sat at the gambling machines with their money bags etc... I also heard talk of them going on regular Casino Nights to Reading (nearest Casino to Basingstoke). I got to know a guy who owned a small Italian restaurant at the top of town. He used to go on the Casino Nights with the Taxi Drivers and asked me if I wanted to go with them once, I declined. I was speaking to him for months and then he disappeared (or it seemed like it, he didn't go in the bookies anymore).

One day I overheard one of the Taxi Drivers talking to the Manager of the bookies (who I knew very well). He was saying that 'Mario' (as we used to call him because he looked like Mario out of Super Mario), had lost BIG TIME. He had taken thousands out of his business, lost it and then tried to borrow and get credit etc so that he could try and recoup his losses...he didn't. The long and short of it is that he lost his restaurant which was not only his business but his life too. I saw him for the first time in about 3 years on Monday when I was walking through town and he looked like a totally different person. There was no life in him. I've also seen one of the blokes who used to be a Taxi Driver actually sitting outside begging because he has lost everything.

Casinos are a business Charlie and their business is to get your money. When you realise that properly, you won't waste any money on them anymore. Let's just hope it isn't too late already and the damage you have done isn't that bad. You have plenty of years to sort yourself out. The best thing you can do with your money is to get your own place, whether it's renting or purchasing because then you'll realise that you will HAVE to get the work in to pay the rent or mortgage because if you don't, you'll lose the roof over your head just like the 2 examples I have given.

[funkymook]

Hmmm I suspect all this talk of casino's making big money has got Charlie looking into running one!

[NKR]

Charlie, you seem to realise already that you may have a problem on the casino side of things but in the next breath you seem to be trying to convince yourself that the Casino treats you differently to every other punter - They DON'T. They look at you and see £££ Signs and because you are young I would say that they also think you have plenty of disposable income. If you have had chats with the staff then I am pretty sure that after a few drinks you have told them what you do, where you live etc so they know all the details.

I've visited a Casinos in the past, the first time I went..well, luck must have been shining down on me because I won a lot of money but it's not always like that and I soon learnt what it was like. Luckily I realised long before I lost loads of money but I'll tell you this little horror story mate. If this doesn't scare you then I'm sorry but you are on a very swift road to ruin......Sounds harsh but true.....

I used to go regularly to a bookies in my town. I never spent loads of money but I got to know a lot of people that were regulars there. Taxi Drivers who would finish their shifts and be sat at the gambling machines with their money bags etc... I also heard talk of them going on regular Casino Nights to Reading (nearest Casino to Basingstoke). I got to know a guy who owned a small Italian restaurant at the top of town. He used to go on the Casino Nights with the Taxi Drivers and asked me if I wanted to go with them once, I declined. I was speaking to him for months and then he disappeared (or it seemed like it, he didn't go in the bookies anymore).

One day I overheard one of the Taxi Drivers talking to the Manager of the bookies (who I knew very well). He was saying that 'Mario' (as we used to call him because he looked like Mario out of Super Mario), had lost BIG TIME. He had taken thousands out of his business, lost it and then tried to borrow and get credit etc so that he could try and recoup his losses...he didn't. The long and short of it is that he lost his restaurant which was not only his business but his life too. I saw him for the first time in about 3 years on Monday when I was walking through town and he looked like a totally different person. There was no life in him. I've also seen one of the blokes who used to be a Taxi Driver actually sitting outside begging because he has lost everything.

Casinos are a business Charlie and their business is to get your money. When you realise that properly, you won't waste any money on them anymore. Let's just hope it isn't too late already and the damage you have done isn't that bad. You have plenty of years to sort yourself out. The best thing you can do with your money is to get your own place, whether it's renting or purchasing because then you'll realise that you will HAVE to get the work in to pay the rent or mortgage because if you don't, you'll lose the roof over your head just like the 2 examples I have given.

I spent all my student years in the bookies. I only ever made money in the bookies.



















Why? I worked there. I have seen a lot of people lose their money.