I'm appalled.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Just as I think we are making some kind of headway as an industry things happen which seem to move the bar back down again.

On this and another forum in the last couple of days, I have read how DJs..

Use illegal downloads and mashups.
Have no regard for the public's safety by not using safety bonds.
Placing lights and equipment in dangerous places.
Not being insured for business with their vehicles.
Having no regard for copyright law.
Not using pro equipment needed for the job.

It really makes me wonder why we bother sometimes. :bang:

[DJWilson]

I cant see why people are risking the insurance and H&S at work, a small fee for security to cover there backs when if it all goes Pete Tong then there totally :Censored:

[A1DL]

I share your sentiment, Daz. It doesn't make the job any easier and unfortunately many potential customers aren't interested in some (or all) of these points, the majority of which, when compromised, reduce the cost of an operation hence assist in saturating the marketplace with cheap alternatives.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I made a comment with similar sentiment yesterday Darren - ie how I am feeling at the moment that the last however many years appear to have been a complete waste of time and effort for a lot of people.

[JTRS]

To be fair you could say that about any given industry, there are always some that cut corners, cut costs and ignore legislation.

All you can do is be the best that you can be and don't worry about what others are doing that are outside your control.

JTRS

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

To be fair you could say that about any given industry, there are always some that cut corners, cut costs and ignore legislation.



Yes, but I am talking about this one as it is the one we work in.

[A1DL]

All you can do is be the best that you can be and don't worry about what others are doing that are outside your control.


There's a big difference between "worrying about" what others are doing, than being aware of bad practices that are rife within the industry and having an adverse effect on bonafide operators' sales and profit.

[Penfold42]

It does make you wonder. :)

[Steve the DJ]

There's a big difference between "worrying about" what others are doing, than being aware of bad practices that are rife within the industry and having an adverse effect on bonafide operators' sales and profit.

I'm not sure I understand your position?

Let's look at Darren's list as an example:



Use illegal downloads and mashups.
Have no regard for the public's safety by not using safety bonds.
Placing lights and equipment in dangerous places.
Not being insured for business with their vehicles.
Having no regard for copyright law.
Not using pro equipment needed for the job.

The only thing that I can see helping someone gain some sort of "competitive advantage" over your business is obtaining a music collection via illegal downloading.

Everything else comes back to their own stupidity and only gives a professional an advantage as far as I can see, not them. :shrug:

Guess you won't want a copy of the latest Mash Up collection I just downloaded then Daz? :D

[JTRS]

There's a big difference between "worrying about" what others are doing, than being aware of bad practices that are rife within the industry and having an adverse effect on bonafide operators' sales and profit.


I'd disagree about it having an adverse effect, the cowboys make the good ones look better. I always get a positive reaction from venue managers when I ask about FAP's or they see me taping down loose wires etc.

I've also read a lot of posts on here (most by Shakermaker) who also comments on the positive reaction of venues and repeat bookings because he was more professional in his approach than others the venue had seen.

I'm aware of what others do but I don't worry about it because it's out of my control and nothing I say or do will change that.

JTRS

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think what Tony is saying is that the adverse effect is that these people have no real costs and therefore go out at silly low prices therefore pushing the average price down and therefore having an effect generally on the industry.

Or I could be totally wrong. :sofa:

[JTRS]

Everything else comes back to their own stupidity and only gives a professional an advantage as far as I can see, not them.


GMTA

JTRS

[A1DL]

I'd disagree about it having an adverse effect, the cowboys make the good ones look better.

whoooooooooosh..............

[mike8863]

Unfortunately you'll never get rid of the "cowboys", thats life, ther will always be an element that spoil it for others which will affect the reputations of others in that industry.

And it's not just £75 sid, is it.........I bet there are some people on here that use illegal downloads and yet have some of the smartest gear and full diaries.

Whats the asnwer, police it more effectively, will that ever happen... NO.

Just try and educate potential clients. If i get an enquiry I've strated to ask if other dj's have said they have PAT and PLI, some people say, the other fella hasn't got it but he's cheaper than you so thanks but no thanks:bang: .

Until every venue insists on the above then you won't make any headway, and then you've got to police the perfomance laws....

Frustrating? Too bloody right it is:Censored:

[A1DL]

I think what Tony is saying is that the adverse effect is that these people have no real costs and therefore go out at silly low prices therefore pushing the average price down and therefore having an effect generally on the industry.

Or I could be totally wrong. :sofa:

You're spot on, Daz. :)

[Steve the DJ]

I think what Tony is saying is that the adverse effect is that these people have no real costs and therefore go out at silly low prices therefore pushing the average price down and therefore having an effect generally on the industry.

Or I could be totally wrong. :sofa:

No I think you are right, but...

I don't buy that argument because through the forums I know lots of DJs who are fully legal, pay tax, are fully insured etc. and still undercut others because they charge what they want as it is a fun sideline, rather than what they should if it was a full time business.

That to me is the biggest "issue" for full time business owners, not cowboys or those who cut corners, but those who are 100% legal but continue to offer a great service at hobby prices.

Which of course is entirely their perogative and it's great for the clients but keeps prices artifically low for everyone else.


GMTA

;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Anyway, please don't turn this into another pricing thread...

[ppentertainments]

The problem is though, I think most industries have cowboys and most face the same battle as ourselves. Mechanics, decorators, photographers, gardeners, joiners even shop owners etc etc.

The 'buy cheap' culture is always going to be rife IMO, and while people want cheap, others will supply cheap - regardless of legalities, safety etc etc.

[RabbittsKaraoke]

Slightly OT to this thread (and please move if necessary) but with regard to the above re Produm and policing...I've "upgraded" my produb for previous purchases as mentioned in another thread.

How DO PRS police this?? I know with a premises licence they come round every now and then and sit and listen to the music that is played but I dont know how they police the Produb. Will I have someone from PRS come and listen to me play?

And with regard to the main topic I think I have been guilty of some of the things that Darren mentioned in the past...and maybe quite few others on here too...but it is whether or not the individuals are making the effort to better themselves.

I'm pretty sure I may have played a track that I obtained illegitmately in the past...and when I have realised I have quickly purchased an original and included it in my Produb allowance.

I know a few DJs who know about PLI/PAT/Produb/kit upgrades but couldnt give a monkeys....these are the ones that ruin it

[Steve the DJ]

Anyway, please don't turn this into another pricing thread...

I didn't, A1DL did.

[STEVE HANLEY]

I want to be as professional as possible. That's why I got all my gear PAT tested, joined the NADJ got my PLI. But I don't think any of that has ever cut any ice when a potential client has rang/ emailed me for a quote.

It used to bother me but not anymore

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I didn't, A1DL did.

I didn't say you did. I was making the point generally.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

you think that a forum would make people stop doing stuff like that?

Can take a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

Put it this way, the issues you raised could be far worse had this forum never been created.

[MagicMusic]

My opinion is that there should be an industry body which governs all DJ's.

It would then be black and white to all clients that any DJ not carrying the body's "seal of approval" is likely to be a shady operator.

Venues could be held accountable by making sure that any DJ's are certified before performing.

Just a thought.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

My opinion is that there should be an industry body which governs all DJ's.

It would then be black and white to all clients that any DJ not carrying the body's "seal of approval" is likely to be a shady operator.

Whilst that is a good idea and one that's been talked about before - how would you decide who was in and who was out and what would you need to get the seal of approval?

[StarZSoundS]

My opinion is that there should be an industry body which governs all DJ's.

It would then be black and white to all clients that any DJ not carrying the body's "seal of approval" is likely to be a shady operator.

Venues could be held accountable by making sure that any DJ's are certified before performing.

Just a thought.

They barely Police the smoking ban now....and that received a great deal of publicity.They wouldn't waste funds policing what the public would consider a non-essential issue anyway!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Excalibur]

Whilst that is a good idea and one that's been talked about before - how would you decide who was in and who was out and what would you need to get the seal of approval?

Lead us not into temptation.......... :zip:

[MagicMusic]

I'm not really sure what would be required or how it could be policed but I think a new industry organisation could have some kind of success, particularly if venues were forced to comply like many do with P.A.T and insurance.

Like I say just a thought but I think it merits greater widespread debate.


They barely Police the smoking ban now....and that received a great deal of publicity.They wouldn't waste funds policing what the public would consider a non-essential issue anyway!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

The smoking ban tends to police itself round here and its not a great comparison.

Who do you mean by "they"? I'm talking about an new industry body who would exist to serve the good guys.

[A1DL]

Lead us not into temptation.......... :zip:

Own up - you were going to say "Class D speakers", weren't you, Peter? :zip:

[Excalibur]

Own up - you were going to say "Class D speakers", weren't you, Peter? :zip:

NO!!!!!



















RCF. :sofa:

[spin mobile disco]

I must admit that I havent been around the forums much recently due to various problems. But I hadn't seen these threads that started this one so to speak.
Are there some specific ones I should read as precursor to this one? Just wondering as I didnt want to post without a little background on the problem.

But on a similar note I think it is still on topic, the other day I was playing a venue with another DJ in the other room. Im having a pretty good night im guessing by the amount of time he spent coming into mine that his wasn't going quite so well.
Well I started to play a song and he said 'I don't have this ill go grab a memory stick can you make me a copy' I was shocked as well as discusted that a DJ that was a resident at a large hotel chain would: 1 ask me that, 2 not have this particular song as it is current chart. and 3 basically endorse the illegal use of copyright material i.e my purchased and produb covered music collection.
I said no and showed him my produb licence and suggested he leave and think hard about what he wants to do with his life as he is obviously not DJ material.

Any one else had similar?

[STEVE HANLEY]

I must admit that I havent been around the forums much recently due to various problems. But I hadn't seen these threads that started this one so to speak.
Are there some specific ones I should read as precursor to this one? Just wondering as I didnt want to post without a little background on the problem.

But on a similar note I think it is still on topic, the other day I was playing a venue with another DJ in the other room. Im having a pretty good night im guessing by the amount of time he spent coming into mine that his wasn't going quite so well.
Well I started to play a song and he said 'I don't have this ill go grab a memory stick can you make me a copy' I was shocked as well as discusted that a DJ that was a resident at a large hotel chain would: 1 ask me that, 2 not have this particular song as it is current chart. and 3 basically endorse the illegal use of copyright material i.e my purchased and produb covered music collection.
I said no and showed him my produb licence and suggested he leave and think hard about what he wants to do with his life as he is obviously not DJ material.

Any one else had similar?

What was his reaction to that then?

[ppentertainments]

NO!!!!!



RCF. :sofa:
Traitor :mad:

:D :D :D :D


What was his reaction to that then?
A smack in the mouth probably :D :D

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Ok, this may sound bad but do you really, honestly believe that some of the 'holier than thou' posters on this forum are 100% honest. I have spoken to various people in the past who have come across on here as doing everything by the book yet when you delve deeper and speak to them away from the forum....well...it's not the case at all.

I know 1 'DJ' (who doesn't post here and is local to me) who does not pay tax and puts everything in his back pocket, has dodgy equipment, a whole database of music that's come from torrents or ebay HD's and charges silly money to get extra funds to boost his main income. I've mentioned that person on this forum a couple of times.

For someone like me (and most of you) that tries to supply a professional service, downloads legal digital stuff which is all paid for, has the correct documentation (PLI & PAT, ProDub etc), and pays their taxes etc...it's a real bummer. This particular person does not affect what I do but it still does my head in. I'm no grass though and I am firm believer in that these people will get caught out before long. The sooner the better.

[WWDJ]

I'm talking about an new industry body who would exist to serve the good guys.

In the new world of cutbacks this isn't going to happen unless the good guys stump up for it.

Businesses are struggling to survive so it isn't surprising that they choose cheaper options and that includes DJ's.

I'm being undercut myself (and my prices aren't high) at my local WMC this saturday for a pay on the door night. Basically he gets hammered for free and plays some decent records badly in a seemingly random order. Most of the kit is old but it makes a noise, there are flashing lights and the customers have a dance. It does the job.

Legality, pli, pat don't come into it and I'll bet there are hundreds of these happening up and down the country.

It annoyed me for about 10 minutes being undercut and then I thought, no I'm better than that and I vow to raise my game.

With that said too, they don't recommend him for parties or their NYE booking. That comes my way :-)

[rob1963]

Ok, this may sound bad but do you really, honestly believe that some of the 'holier than thou' posters on this forum are 100% honest.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Not being funny, but in one way you have to admire the people who admit to doing things which are a bit dodgy...because at least they're being honest about it!

[Vectis]

Come on then, Rob, spill 'em :p

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Exactly what I was thinking.

Not being funny, but in one way you have to admire the people who admit to doing things which are a bit dodgy...because at least they're being honest about it!

I agree entirely!

The thing is (and no disrespect to anyone else)...What about stuff like Gig Logs and when you do a music quiz and make up your own 'bits n pieces' style stuff.
Does that mean I am a cowboy or bringing the whole industry into disrepute because I may make up my own music quiz?

Sometimes I think it all goes a bit OTT.

[Vectis]

Inspired by the original emotion behind this thread, I've run a few stats.
(I figured that if UKbride can get away with it I could at least try so long as I don't mention any names :o )

As many of you know I run a series of entertainment-related websites, one of which is specifically for those who need to find a disco/DJ. This site is geared towards those members who can provide evidence of good working practice and legal compliance, with those providing the strongest evidence getting higher rankings and therefore more/better customer leads. So there is a strong incentive to provide evidence especially as we don't charge vetting fees.

Despite this, as of this morning...

- 61% of members have a valid PLI policy
- 50% of members have current PAT records
- 19% have shown a ProDub (of which >80% have been for the entry level 5000 tracks :o Yeah, right :innocent: )
- 30% have signed a disclaimer stating that ProDub is not required
- 31% have produced three verifiable positive customer references
- 18% of members have produced a comprehensive H&S Method Statement
- 15% have provided an example Risk Assessment
- 31% are members of a relevant trade association or body such as NADJ, Equity, MU etc.


Interesting numbers. As with any set of stats these could be wholly unrepresentative for any number of reasons, but I thought I'd share as on the whole it's quite worrisome :zip:

[jeff wood]

whats bugging me slightly about this thread,, is that you need to keep things in perspective.

i'll try to explain the way i feel about it.


firstly, what really gets me is mobile djs who have a dis regard for safety..

ie, DJ's who use un safe stands, truss etc, speaker stands that can be knocked over easily, and worst of all, djs who use those light boxe things with no covers over the bulbs, ive even seen some with bulbs actually missing.

those sort of dj's should be shot.

also, on the safety subject,,how many djs use normal cars, and overload them with dj equipment ?



second thing that bugs me is djs with tatty looking and/or rubbish gear.

that brings our industry down..


third thing,, djs who make no effort to improve the way thay actually dj.

ie, dont learn to mix, dont research new songs etc


fourth,, djs who dont use the correct equipment for the job, ie, using speakers without subs, or speakers that arnt designed for dj ing (cough Bose L1's , lol)


fifth thing.... dj's who dont pay tax !!

sixth,, dj's who bring their mates along (sorry i mean "roadies" )



so thats six things that i think bring this industry down,,,

and i havnt even got to pli, pro dub, nadj etc




and also, dj's who bend the rules slightly and illegally download the odd mash up and hot tune that you cant get anywhere else,,,i say well done to them

because they are the ones who are improving our image !


as do people like myself who alter songs (and vids ) to make them more mixable.


as a quick example, recently ive played the Rude Boy Vs Kingston Town Video Mash up a lot, which I "Illegally Downloaded",, and its gone down a treat, especially at school proms and 21st's..

so, who has done the most to improve the image of mobile dj's ?

myself, or someone who's squarer than square who would never dream of downloading anythng slightly dodgy and as a result of that, misses out on all the exiting stuff ???

[Corabar Steve]

You do realise that this part of the forum is viewable to anyone & PRS etc do occasionally trawl these forums.

No I'm not going to delete the post (& I urge other mods & admins to leave it in place too), you've made your bed etc..

If you're happy about breaking the law to do your job, then be prepared to deal with the consequences when it all comes tumbling down around you.

Personally, I think the "I'll do what I please as long as I can get away with it" attitude does a lot more to bring the entire industry down than not having the ability to mix. (there are situations & genres that don't require anything more than a fade between tracks after all)

[RabbittsKaraoke]

so, who has done the most to improve the image of mobile dj's ?

myself, or someone who's squarer than square who would never dream of downloading anythng slightly dodgy and as a result of that, misses out on all the exiting stuff ???

Have to take my hat off to you for being honest but....... :eek: ......dear god alive!!! :zip:

[Babybob]

whats bugging me slightly about this thread,, is that you need to keep things in perspective.

i'll try to explain the way i feel about it.


firstly, what really gets me is mobile djs who have a dis regard for safety..

ie, DJ's who use un safe stands, truss etc, speaker stands that can be knocked over easily, and worst of all, djs who use those light boxe things with no covers over the bulbs, ive even seen some with bulbs actually missing.

those sort of dj's should be shot.

also, on the safety subject,,how many djs use normal cars, and overload them with dj equipment ?



second thing that bugs me is djs with tatty looking and/or rubbish gear.

that brings our industry down..


third thing,, djs who make no effort to improve the way thay actually dj.

ie, dont learn to mix, dont research new songs etc


fourth,, djs who dont use the correct equipment for the job, ie, using speakers without subs, or speakers that arnt designed for dj ing (cough Bose L1's , lol)


fifth thing.... dj's who dont pay tax !!

sixth,, dj's who bring their mates along (sorry i mean "roadies" )



so thats six things that i think bring this industry down,,,

and i havnt even got to pli, pro dub, nadj etc




and also, dj's who bend the rules slightly and illegally download the odd mash up and hot tune that you cant get anywhere else,,,i say well done to them

because they are the ones who are improving our image !


as do people like myself who alter songs (and vids ) to make them more mixable.


as a quick example, recently ive played the Rude Boy Vs Kingston Town Video Mash up a lot, which I "Illegally Downloaded",, and its gone down a treat, especially at school proms and 21st's..

so, who has done the most to improve the image of mobile dj's ?

myself, or someone who's squarer than square who would never dream of downloading anythng slightly dodgy and as a result of that, misses out on all the exiting stuff ???

Some interesting points in your statement which i'm sure some of the more prolific posters on here will comment upon but the one I have highlighted in red is an absolute load of twaddle IMO.
I may as well knock it on the head then as all the good feedback I have had must be nonsense. :bang:

[Excalibur]

Hmmmmm, tricky one.
" Let he who is without sin.................................. "
Tricky. I'm not holier than thou, or him , or you, or anybody else. :o :o :o :o I do however have a clear conscience, and a good idea of when to :zip:

[jeff wood]

Some interesting points in your statement which i'm sure some of the more prolific posters on here will comment upon but the one I have highlighted in red is an absolute load of twaddle IMO.
I may as well knock it on the head then as all the good feedback I have had must be nonsense. :bang:


well we were talking about things that bring down the image of a mobile DJ, and I think djs who use speakers without subs do..

people get used to club and bar DJ's with their big systems, that sound great,
and then they go to a wedding and have to put up with a mobile dj and his tinny sounding full range speakers on stands..

and for what reason(s) ???

is it lazyness ? because the dj cant arsed to carry them in

or it tightness,, because the dj doesnt want to spend money on them, or more likely they wont fit in his car....

[rob1963]

the one I have highlighted in red is an absolute load of twaddle IMO.

Agreed.

I've never used subs, and have done gigs for up to 250 people with no problems.

Does that really mean I'm dragging our industry down?

:confused:

[Babybob]

Or is it because he doesn't have tinny sounding full range speakers.....your digging a deeper hole with those sort of comments, throw the shovel away now. ;)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Or is it the sound limiter which wont allow it :whistle: :D

[jeff wood]

You do realise that this part of the forum is viewable to anyone & PRS etc do occasionally trawl these forums.

No I'm not going to delete the post (& I urge other mods & admins to leave it in place too), you've made your bed etc..

If you're happy about breaking the law to do your job, then be prepared to deal with the consequences when it all comes tumbling down around you.

Personally, I think the "I'll do what I please as long as I can get away with it" attitude does a lot more to bring the entire industry down than not having the ability to mix. (there are situations & genres that don't require anything more than a fade between tracks after all)




i dont think theres anythng the PRS would be too concerned about,

after all, take the rude boy mix,,

I have actaully bought rude boy, twice in fact, bought it off itunes, and also it was a promo only that i bought,

so i dont think they'de be too worried that i downloaded a different version that isnt available to buy.


i'm sure they'de rather go after the djs who illegally download all of their music, of which im sure there are 1000's ...

[DJ Jules]

and also, dj's who bend the rules slightly and illegally download the odd mash up and hot tune that you cant get anywhere else,,,i say well done to them

because they are the ones who are improving our image !

Now that's a complicated issue... On one hand, the original recording artists have a right to protect their image by controlling the use of their material (imagine someone mashing an artist who specifically targets kids being mashed with an explicit track - think The Wiggles vs T.Pain :D ). On the other hand, do the general public have a right to "fair use" of the material that they've paid for, including the right to change it to suit their needs?

Personally, I think fair use is important to allow creativity and innovation, but the issues get even more complicated when you're talking about mashing for public performance (because ultimately we make money extra money from doing it - so why shouldn't the recording artists?)

Julian

[jeff wood]

Agreed.

I've never used subs, and have done gigs for up to 250 people with no problems.

Does that really mean I'm dragging our industry down?

:confused:


yes it does,,,

you're adding the publics assumption that the sound from a mobile dj is inferior to that of a club/pub dj .

ive heard about people who are now hiring in big systems and ipod dj ing at their weddings because they dont want a weedy sounding system...

[jeff wood]

Or is it because he doesn't have tinny sounding full range speakers.....your digging a deeper hole with those sort of comments, throw the shovel away now. ;)


all full range speakers on stands sound a bit lacking in bass, ok, "tinny" is taking it too far, but im sure you know what i mean,,

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Ok Jules, im going to flip this on its head.

I regulary mash up Riverside vs Hotel Room Service in a live environment. If i had that premashed for my use only, what difference does it make if its live or not...i have both tracks and no illegal downloading took plac

[jeff wood]

Ok Jules, im going to flip this on its head.

I regulary mash up Riverside vs Hotel Room Service in a live environment. If i had that premashed for my use only, what difference does it make if its live or not...i have both tracks and no illegal downloading took plac



it means you are breaking the law and bringing the industry into disrepute..

now go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done !


:D

[rob1963]

yes it does,,,

you're adding the publics assumption that the sound from a mobile dj is inferior to that of a club/pub dj .

ive heard about people who are now hiring in big systems and ipod dj ing at their weddings because they dont want a weedy sounding system...

Sorry Jeff, but that's rubbish.

To suggest that people without subs have a weedy sounding system is ridiculous.

[Babybob]

all full range speakers on stands sound a bit lacking in bass, ok, "tinny" is taking it too far, but im sure you know what i mean,,

I'm sure the Class D expert will be along soon to put you straight....:D

[jeff wood]

no its not...

ive never heard a speaker system without subs that gives that "club sound" that people want to hear,,and,,dance to

dancing is a much more enjoyable experience when you can "feel" the beat...

honestly :)

[RabbittsKaraoke]

Sorry Jeff, but that's rubbish.

To suggest that people without subs have a weedy sounding system is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous rob, you're right.
In fact, i have been to a few functions where the DJ has had subs and finds it necessary (just because he has them!) to turn the bass up to unbearable levels just to make a point. Sometimes to a degree where the champagne flutes move across the tables on their own - this is WITH a table cloth.
THIS is another thing that brings the industry down.

I don't have subs, but i will be investing in them shortly purely because my full range cabs are not big enough for me to do bigger venues. If you have cabs that are big enough then why buy subs?? This, I'm sure is Robs point! It's all about right equipment for the job in hand isn't it??

[Corabar Steve]

i dont think theres anythng the PRS would be too concerned about,OK maybe MCPS then


yes it does,,,

you're adding the publics assumption that the sound from a mobile dj is inferior to that of a club/pub dj .
http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-16060.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[rob1963]

ive never heard a speaker system without subs that gives that "club sound" that people want to hear,,and,,dance to


Why do you think people at weddings want loads of extra bass making the room vibrate, or "that club sound" as you call it in order to dance?


dancing is a much more enjoyable experience when you can "feel" the beat...

I'm not sure exactly what you mean there, but it's clearly just your own opinion...as someone who obviously likes lots of extra bass.

[jeff wood]

Now that's a complicated issue... On one hand, the original recording artists have a right to protect their image by controlling the use of their material (imagine someone mashing an artist who specifically targets kids being mashed with an explicit track - think The Wiggles vs T.Pain :D ). On the other hand, do the general public have a right to "fair use" of the material that they've paid for, including the right to change it to suit their needs?

Personally, I think fair use is important to allow creativity and innovation, but the issues get even more complicated when you're talking about mashing for public performance (because ultimately we make money extra money from doing it - so why shouldn't the recording artists?)

Julian


Julian,,Im all for creativity !!

When DJ Erens mixed Candi Statons acapella over the top of Your Love and created one of the biggest dance tunes in history,,he wasnt thinking of the legalities,,,


and I think the Wiggles V T pain mash ( When The Music Stops Everyone Hop In The Church ) is actually quite good...


:laughup:

[Corabar Steve]

Ok Jules, im going to flip this on its head.

I regulary mash up Riverside vs Hotel Room Service in a live environment. If i had that premashed for my use only, what difference does it make if its live or not...i have both tracks and no illegal downloading took plac


it means you are breaking the law and bringing the industry into disrepute..

now go and stand in the corner and think about what you've done !


:DNail on the head (either with or without the sarcasm)

It is breaking various copyright laws & as such is illegal.

no its not...

ive never heard a speaker system without subs that gives that "club sound" that people want to hear,,and,,dance to

dancing is a much more enjoyable experience when you can "feel" the beat...

honestly :)You live in such a closed little world don't you Jeff.

There is more to life than "dance" music.

You'll probably find that more people care about a nice clear sound at a decent volume than earth moving bass at ear shattering levels.

[rob1963]

There is more to life than "dance" music.

You'll probably find that more people care about a nice clear sound at a decent volume than earth moving bass at ear shattering levels.

That sums up my thoughts very well.

Thanks Steve!

:D

[Babybob]

no its not...

ive never heard a speaker system without subs that gives that "club sound" that people want to hear,,and,,dance to

dancing is a much more enjoyable experience when you can "feel" the beat...

honestly :)

Yeah your right, i've been misleading my clients and their guests all along.

For my next gig which is a 60th birthday party i'll hire in a pair of subs, an extra amp and crank up Del Shannon's Runaround Sue so the dancers can "feel" the sound and think they are in a club, i'll also make sure there are bouncers on the door and some dodgy looking characters hanging around the toilets selling some illegal stuff....just to give it that extra "club" feel.;)

[jeff wood]

It is ridiculous rob, you're right.
In fact, i have been to a few functions where the DJ has had subs and finds it necessary (just because he has them!) to turn the bass up to unbearable levels just to make a point. Sometimes to a degree where the champagne flutes move across the tables on their own - this is WITH a table cloth.
THIS is another thing that brings the industry down.

I don't have subs, but i will be investing in them shortly purely because my full range cabs are not big enough for me to do bigger venues. If you have cabs that are big enough then why buy subs?? This, I'm sure is Robs point! It's all about right equipment for the job in hand isn't it??


so is it ridiculous or not ?

make your mind up..

you say it is,,,but now you are saying that you are buying subs....


and yes,,agree that djs who mis use their equipment, ie, give too much bass, are also on my list :)

[Corabar Steve]

Please note that I'm not agreeing with you Rob, just putting my own thoughts across :sj:

[Vectis]

i'll also make sure there are bouncers on the door and some dodgy looking characters hanging around the toilets selling some illegal stuff....just to give it that extra "club" feel.;)

Don't forget the sticky carpets and "eau de BO" to spray around the room before the guests arrive :p

[rob1963]

:Laugh:

[RabbittsKaraoke]

Yeah your right, i've been misleading my clients and their guests all along.

For my next gig which is a 60th birthday party i'll hire in a pair of subs, an extra amp and crank up Del Shannon's Runaround Sue so the dancers can "feel" the sound and think they are in a club,

:Laugh: PLEASE DO IT!!!!!! :Laugh:

[Corabar Steve]

so is it ridiculous or not ?

make your mind up..

you say it is,,,but now you are saying that you are buying subs....


and yes,,agree that djs who mis use their equipment, ie, give too much bass, are also on my list :)
Note he doesn't give the size or SPL of his full range speakers. 10 inchers with subs will sound a lot better than on their own. 15 inch speakers may not need additional reinforcement in anything other than the biggest function room / suite. Remember it's always nice to be able to have a conversation somewhere in the room & to be able to order drinks without having to resort to a mixture of shouting, sign language & semaphore.

[jeff wood]

Yeah your right, i've been misleading my clients and their guests all along.

For my next gig which is a 60th birthday party i'll hire in a pair of subs, an extra amp and crank up Del Shannon's Runaround Sue so the dancers can "feel" the sound and think they are in a club, i'll also make sure there are bouncers on the door and some dodgy looking characters hanging around the toilets selling some illegal stuff....just to give it that extra "club" feel.;)

oh so 60 year olds are all into Del Shannon and 50's rock n roll are they ?

even though they did their going out and partying in the 70's where they would have heard lots of fairly bass heavy music,,

honestly you shouldnt assume that just because someone is 60, they must have 50's and 60's music played at low volume,

[jeff wood]

Don't forget the sticky carpets and "eau de BO" to spray around the room before the guests arrive :p

yeah i know what you mean,,,ive been to the isle of wight :D

[Corabar Steve]

That's taking the thread a tad off topic Jeff, but I agree. Never stereotype your audience by their age, that sort of DJ does bring the rest of us down.

[Javlingames]

Its unfair to say that 'all' clients want bass as no 2 clients are the same. I know a lot of hotels that moan like hell about the weeks previous DJ who had so much bass people staying in rooms complained all night.

[jeff wood]

Nail on the head (either with or without the sarcasm)

It is breaking various copyright laws & as such is illegal.
You live in such a closed little world don't you Jeff.

There is more to life than "dance" music.

You'll probably find that more people care about a nice clear sound at a decent volume than earth moving bass at ear shattering levels.



me, live in a closed little world ???

i dont think so somehow,,,


firstly, its not just dance music that benefits from decent bass !

nearly all music does..


and secondly, who said anything about "earth moving bass at ear shattering levels" ?

[RabbittsKaraoke]

so is it ridiculous or not ?

make your mind up..

you say it is,,,but now you are saying that you are buying subs....


and yes,,agree that djs who mis use their equipment, ie, give too much bass, are also on my list :)


You're generalisation is ridiculous

See Steves post (I'm not quite there with regard to doing various quotes o the forum yet) as he has hit the nail on the head.

I've got a couple of 12 inchers (1000w RMS total) and they're fine for the small res which I have (and is all i do) at the moment. The room I do it in hold about 50 people max....there is no way I would want to use subs in this room.

If I remember rightly I saw a post which said you only did your res and nothing else. Like me. But I hope to god I don't become so blinkered as to what is required as you are.

[jeff wood]

That's taking the thread a tad off topic Jeff, but I agree. Never stereotype your audience by their age, that sort of DJ does bring the rest of us down.

actually no, i wasnt the one who was steriotyping the audience by their age,, it was the other guy who was doing that remember ???

for some reason he assumed that a 60 old would want 50's rock n roll...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

fourth,, djs who dont use the correct equipment for the job, ie, using speakers without subs

I don't use the correct equipment for the job then.


well we were talking about things that bring down the image of a mobile DJ, and I think djs who use speakers without subs do..


I think the image of the mobile DJ that we need to get rid of is the willy waving 'my speakers are bigger than yours' type who doesn't use the correct amount of gear for the job and doesn't know when to turn it down or doesn't realise that people want their ears assaulted by too much bass.


Sorry Jeff, but that's rubbish.

To suggest that people without subs have a weedy sounding system is ridiculous.

Indeed.


me, live in a closed little world ???

i dont think so somehow,,,


But you only work in one venue and I would have thought that would blinker you somewhat. Did you sell your bass bins a while back as they complained it was too bassy?

[jeff wood]

You're generalisation is ridiculous

See Steves post (I'm not quite there with regard to doing various quotes o the forum yet) as he has hit the nail on the head.

I've got a couple of 12 inchers (1000w RMS total) and they're fine for the small res which I have (and is all i do) at the moment. The room I do it in hold about 50 people max....there is no way I would want to use subs in this room.

If I remember rightly I saw a post which said you only did your res and nothing else. Like me. But I hope to god I don't become so blinkered as to what is required as you are.




the room size has nothng to do with whether you need subs or not, subs dont just make the system louder, they give it that extra depth,,

so say if you have 50 people in a room , or 200

why should the room with 200 have a better sound (deeper bass ) than the room with 50 ???


and for your info, im hardly blinkered,,

ive been a dj for 27 years and Ive done just about every type of dj ing there is,,everything from playing at illegal raves in the 80's, to holiday camps, nightclubs, working abroad for 5 years, mobile work all around the Uk, and ive even done a few afternoon tea dances :D

[rob1963]

the room size has nothing to do with whether you need subs or not, subs dont just make the system louder, they give it that extra depth

As does turning up the bass and/or reducing the treble on my mixer's eq.

:D

[jeff wood]

I don't use the correct equipment for the job then.



I think the image of the mobile DJ that we need to get rid of is the willy waving 'my speakers are bigger than yours' type who doesn't use the correct amount of gear for the job and doesn't know when to turn it down or doesn't realise that people want their ears assaulted by too much bass.



Indeed.



But you only work in one venue and I would have thought that would blinker you somewhat. Did you sell your bass bins a while back as they complained it was too bassy?

no ones willy waving darren, and no ones suggesting that djs should use too much bass.

those djs who do, and play too loud are on my list aswell :)


and yes, for a while we had an over zealous manager who complained because you could hear the bass (slightly )in the restaurant,,

but he's gone now, and i'm back to using two 18" subs...

[RabbittsKaraoke]

why should the room with 200 have a better sound (deeper bass ) than the room with 50 ???


and for your info, im hardly blinkered,,



Enough said i think lol

[jeff wood]

As does turning up the bass and/or reducing the treble on my mixer's eq.

:D

you can turn up the bass,,,but it still wont sound (and feel) like a system with subs...

honestly,,dont take my word for it,,hire some 18" subs for a weekend,,

see how nicer it sounds and see how more enjoyable it is for dancing...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Look Jeff, I agree that using subs give a much nicer sound and an extra depth, but it does not mean that DJs who don't use them are bringing the industry down does it?

[Babybob]

oh so 60 year olds are all into Del Shannon and 50's rock n roll are they ?

even though they did their going out and partying in the 70's where they would have heard lots of fairly bass heavy music,,

honestly you shouldnt assume that just because someone is 60, they must have 50's and 60's music played at low volume,

You are really taking the mickey now fella, I used one song as an example, did you want me to list about 3-4 thousand songs that would all give the same scenario.
I don't stereotype my audiences, most of my gigs have wide ranges of ages not the usual (18-25ish) club ages (waits to be told that he knows people who are 30 who go to clubs) so I play a very wide range of music.
:bang: :bang:

[Shaun]

For Jeff....

[DJ Jules]

I regulary mash up Riverside vs Hotel Room Service in a live environment. If i had that premashed for my use only, what difference does it make if its live or not...i have both tracks and no illegal downloading took plac

According to copyright law, mashing or mixing two tracks live isn't illegal (probably only because they'd have criminalised multiple industries if they had made it illegal), but recording that mix is illegal - especially for performance purposes. I suspect that they probably had recording mashups for re-sale more in mind when they made up the rules.


Julian,,Im all for creativity !!

When DJ Erens mixed Candi Statons acapella over the top of Your Love and created one of the biggest dance tunes in history,,he wasnt thinking of the legalities

I'm sure he wasn't, and I'm sure most mashups that have became legal (and released) started as projects in someone's bedroom, studio or residency - and personally I think this is where the recording industry have a huge amount to learn in terms of licensing. At present, getting permission from record labels and artists to use samples or accapella's to make something new is incredibly costly and difficult, to the point that even talking about making a "legal" mashup (or remix) is ridiculous unless you have significant financial resources available. But the technology to make remixes and mashups is now in the hands of almost every 15yr old in the country... (it's even built into some mobile phones). Pretty challenging from a licensing point of view!


and I think the Wiggles V T pain mash ( When The Music Stops Everyone Hop In The Church ) is actually quite good...

That'd be amusing :D


It is breaking various copyright laws & as such is illegal.

Yup it is, as I've said - but should it be? Is it in the recording industries best interests to criminalise some of their most enthusiastic advocates? Or would the artists be better served by introducing a licensing system that allowed artists to make money from this activity?

While they try and work that out, the mash of Just Dance and Don't stop believing is one of my favourite tracks of the moment. Shame I can't legally BUY it anywhere, despite it getting Radio play on Kiss.

Julian

[Corabar Steve]

actually no, i wasnt the one who was steriotyping the audience by their age,, it was the other guy who was doing that remember ???

for some reason he assumed that a 60 old would want 50's rock n roll...
Re-read my reply, I was agreeing with you

you can turn up the bass,,,but it still wont sound (and feel) like a system with subs....
So how do you account for the number of times that I've been using 15 inch full range cabs & people have asked where I'm hiding the sub, because they think they can hear one, but can't see it?

It's not all about bass, although the number of DJs (who want to be club (for club read dance, coz it wouldn't get played in any clubs I go to) DJs, but for whatever reason can't / don't DJ in clubs, so they take up mobile work without the slightest idea about how much club & mobile work differ) that seem to think it is, is absolutely astounding. They do a lot of damage to the public's perception of mobile DJs (probably more than a DJ with no subs)

[Corabar Steve]

Yup it is, as I've said - but should it be? Is it in the recording industries best interests to criminalise some of their most enthusiastic advocates? Or would the artists be better served by introducing a licensing system that allowed artists to make money from this activity?
That's a whole different topic.

[Babybob]

That's taking the thread a tad off topic Jeff, but I agree. Never stereotype your audience by their age, that sort of DJ does bring the rest of us down.

So i've stereotyped my audience by playing one song.........

As Chris Kamara would say..."Unbelievable".....:bang:

[Corabar Steve]

I didn't say you had etiher did I?

I actually commented on the scenario that Jeff adapted from what was in your post.

[Corabar Entertainment]

well we were talking about things that bring down the image of a mobile DJ, and I think djs who use speakers without subs do..That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever read on this forum.


ive never heard a speaker system without subs that gives that "club sound" that people want to hear,,and,,dance toOne thing you keep forgetting to add to you posts is 'IMO'.... 'cos it sure as hell ain't fact! :lol:

Going back to the legalities issue though: Whether or not I think it should be illegal to mix and record video is neither here nor there. The fact is that it is illegal.

My personal views are, if you came on here with the attitude of yes, you do create your own vids using bits from other vids you've obtained legally, and whilst you realise it's not strictly legal, unfortunately because it's new technology there isn't a simple licence available atm (similar to the situation with digital DJs before they sorted that out) - then I would be thinking OK, fair enough, I can see the problems, etc, etc.

However, the attitude you have displayed is "I don't care what's legal and what's not: I've done plenty worse. Anyway, none of the legalities matter because I've got big subs".

[Booche]

second thing that bugs me is djs with tatty looking and/or rubbish gear.

that brings our industry down..


third thing,, djs who make no effort to improve the way thay actually dj.

ie, dont learn to mix, dont research new songs etc


fourth,, djs who dont use the correct equipment for the job, ie, using speakers without subs, or speakers that arnt designed for dj ing (cough Bose L1's , lol)

I suppose then im in that "Catergory" then Jeff as i dont own a apir of subs :eek: and when you say rubbish gear would you like to specify what exactly gear you mean as im quite happy in saying that i dont own expensive equipment (cdj's,denon mixer etc) but im very happy withmy equipment and ive never had a bad word againest me yet (touch wood for it to carry on)

Cheers Dave :)

[NKR]

Ooh looks like I have missed an interesting one here.

Firstly I must apologise for dragging the industry down as not only do I use just full range cabs quite regularly, but wait for it - I sometimes use two sets together.

Although sometimes I do use 18" bass when the occassion requires it - so sometimes I manage to be up to standard.

Then let it down again by being a hobby jobby.

[Babybob]

Just looked at Jeff's occupation on his profile....says it all really.

Does anyone want to buy all my gear, it's frankly crap on it's own as you need some subs to go with it, around 2 grands worth of equipment going cheap very soon.

[Booche]

Ooh looks like I have missed an interesting one hear.

Firstly I must apologise for dragging the industry down as not only do I use just full range cabs quite regularly, but wait for it - I sometimes use two sets together.

Although sometimes I do use 18" bass when the occassion requires it - so sometimes I manage to be up to standard.

Then let it down again by being a hobby jobby.

:Naughty: :Naughty: :Naughty: :ner:

[jeff wood]

Look Jeff, I agree that using subs give a much nicer sound and an extra depth, but it does not mean that DJs who don't use them are bringing the industry down does it?



well we can agree to disagree on that point othersise this could turn into a forum argument :)


You are really taking the mickey now fella, I used one song as an example, did you want me to list about 3-4 thousand songs that would all give the same scenario.
I don't stereotype my audiences, most of my gigs have wide ranges of ages not the usual (18-25ish) club ages (waits to be told that he knows people who are 30 who go to clubs) so I play a very wide range of music.
:bang: :bang:


well next time use a better example then ;)

[jeff wood]

Re-read my reply, I was agreeing with you

So how do you account for the number of times that I've been using 15 inch full range cabs & people have asked where I'm hiding the sub, because they think they can hear one, but can't see it?

It's not all about bass, although the number of DJs (who want to be club (for club read dance, coz it wouldn't get played in any clubs I go to) DJs, but for whatever reason can't / don't DJ in clubs, so they take up mobile work without the slightest idea about how much club & mobile work differ) that seem to think it is, is absolutely astounding. They do a lot of damage to the public's perception of mobile DJs (probably more than a DJ with no subs)



first point Steve,,,sorry I'm not used to people agreeing with me :o

and what single 15's are you using, because I've never come across any that sound like you've got subs,

and honestly i know its not all about bass,,but bass is so important, as i always say, not only for the enjoyment of the music, but also the fact that its better to dance to,,


also ive been both a club and mobile dj, so thats perhaps i view things a bit differently to most,,

because at the end of the day, there doesnt have to be all that much difference between the two,,

maybe 20 years ago, but not now..

even people in their 60's grew up with half decent sound systems, and went to clubs when they were younger,


and if ever been to the Tower Ballroom in Blackpool,, you should hear their system, beautiful deep bass, lovely effortless sound..

that by the way is what old people like !

[jeff wood]

That has got to be one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever read on this forum.

One thing you keep forgetting to add to you posts is 'IMO'.... 'cos it sure as hell ain't fact! :lol:

Going back to the legalities issue though: Whether or not I think it should be illegal to mix and record video is neither here nor there. The fact is that it is illegal.

My personal views are, if you came on here with the attitude of yes, you do create your own vids using bits from other vids you've obtained legally, and whilst you realise it's not strictly legal, unfortunately because it's new technology there isn't a simple licence available atm (similar to the situation with digital DJs before they sorted that out) - then I would be thinking OK, fair enough, I can see the problems, etc, etc.

However, the attitude you have displayed is "I don't care what's legal and what's not: I've done plenty worse. Anyway, none of the legalities matter because I've got big subs".


well of course its my opinion,,,i'm the one who wrote it :D

thats what forums are for arnt they ???

expressing your opinion and discussing it...



and Ang..

where did this come from

[Corabar Entertainment]

and Ang..

where did this come from:confused: :confused: Lost me there. Where did what come from?

[jeff wood]

I suppose then im in that "Catergory" then Jeff as i dont own a apir of subs :eek: and when you say rubbish gear would you like to specify what exactly gear you mean as im quite happy in saying that i dont own expensive equipment (cdj's,denon mixer etc) but im very happy withmy equipment and ive never had a bad word againest me yet (touch wood for it to carry on)

Cheers Dave :)


Hi Dave

when i say "rubbish gear", what i mean is the truly awful stuff that you sometimes see,, ie, speakers with all the cloth hanging off,, and tatty old HH amp, and horrible old "light boxes" with half the bulbs missing..

nothing to do with brands, or how much something cost.

[jeff wood]

Ooh looks like I have missed an interesting one here.

Firstly I must apologise for dragging the industry down as not only do I use just full range cabs quite regularly, but wait for it - I sometimes use two sets together.

Although sometimes I do use 18" bass when the occassion requires it - so sometimes I manage to be up to standard.

Then let it down again by being a hobby jobby.

well I suppose you can be forgiven if use two sets together :cool:

[Excalibur]

Agreed.

I've never used subs, and have done gigs for up to 250 people with no problems.

Does that really mean I'm dragging our industry down?

:confused:
I can't do it folks, it wouild be like shooting fish in a barrel. :( :(


yes it does,,,

you're adding the publics assumption that the sound from a mobile dj is inferior to that of a club/pub dj .

ive heard about people who are now hiring in big systems and ipod dj ing at their weddings because they dont want a weedy sounding system...
Nor should they get one. Especially if they book one of the Cognoscenti. ;) ;)


all full range speakers on stands sound a bit lacking in bass, ok, "tinny" is taking it too far, but im sure you know what i mean,,


I'm sure the Class D expert will be along soon to put you straight....:D
Oh no they don't!!!!!!!!( But they don't half take some lifting up there.;) ;) )


no its not...

ive never heard a speaker system without subs that gives that "club sound" that people want to hear,,and,,dance to
dancing is a much more enjoyable experience when you can "feel" the beat...

honestly :)
Ah, now we're moving the goalposts. ;) Horses for courses. The right rig for the right gig. I use two cabs on sticks very regularly, but I'll take the "Wembley" rig out if needed.

Nail on the head (either with or without the sarcasm)

It is breaking various copyright laws & as such is illegal.
You live in such a closed little world don't you Jeff.

There is more to life than "dance" music.

You'll probably find that more people care about a nice clear sound at a decent volume than earth moving bass at ear shattering levels.
Agreed.


Please note that I'm not agreeing with you Rob, just putting my own thoughts across :sj:
Oh come on Steve, you're a bigger man than that. Admit you're agreeing with Rob, how hard can it be? :p :D :D


oh so 60 year olds are all into Del Shannon and 50's rock n roll are they ?

even though they did their going out and partying in the 70's where they would have heard lots of fairly bass heavy music,,

honestly you shouldnt assume that just because someone is 60, they must have 50's and 60's music played at low volume,
True.


That's taking the thread a tad off topic Jeff, but I agree. Never stereotype your audience by their age, that sort of DJ does bring the rest of us down.
True again. That sort of generalisation is dangerous.


me, live in a closed little world ???

i dont think so somehow,,,


firstly, its not just dance music that benefits from decent bass !

nearly all music does..


and secondly, who said anything about "earth moving bass at ear shattering levels" ?
Only modern stuff. Put the average 60's track on, and you wonder if the sub output has blown. ;) :D :D :D

well we can agree to disagree on that point othersise this could turn into a forum argument :)

Could? :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: Did I miss something? I'm getting the bunker ready, a sofa isn't going tob be nearly enough protection for when Tony Scott et al appear. :sofa:

[jeff wood]

Just looked at Jeff's occupation on his profile....says it all really.

Does anyone want to buy all my gear, it's frankly crap on it's own as you need some subs to go with it, around 2 grands worth of equipment going cheap very soon.


crikey someones got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning:D

and regarding my "occupation"

I put that because I have whats known a "sense of humour" and ability not to take everything too seriously.......especially on forums:)


now come on, lets have a :beer1:

[rob1963]

And today's prize for the post quoting the most OTHER posts goes to...

[jeff wood]

Did I miss something? I'm getting the bunker ready, a sofa isn't going tob be nearly enough protection for when Tony Scott et al appear. :sofa:

LOL

dont worry I can handle the flak :o

[Excalibur]

LOL

dont worry I can handle the flak :o
Well at my age, I can't any more. :( :( :(





and what single 15's are you using, because I've never come across any that sound like you've got subs,

!
I know what he's using. ;) ;) ;) The Mickey Mouse version of mine. :D :D :D :D :D :D



I put that because I have whats known a "sense of humour" and ability not to take everything too seriously.......especially on forums:)


now come on, lets have a :beer1:
Ah well, perhaps Jeff's not as beligerent as he looks. ;) ;) :D :D :D

[jeff wood]

I wish I knew what that meant :)


just googled it,, means hostile..

nah, defanatly not me,,,thats Darren I reckon , lmao :)

[Excalibur]

I wish I knew what that meant :)

Stay around, Glasshopper. Enlightenment will be your reward. ;) ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

well we can agree to disagree on that point othersise this could turn into a forum argument :)


OK, how about this.

I use 2 x RCF speakers on their own a lot and I take that as a personal insult.

I do not bring the industry down and have done a damn site more than you have to try and improve it and the way we operate.

You honesty thing by using subs and mixing a few tunes that you are improving people's perception of us and the industry? :lol:

Dear oh dear....

[jeff wood]

and its not like you to be easily offended Darren :)

so how exactly have you done a damn site more than me to improve the industry ???

[NKR]

well I suppose you can be forgiven if use two sets together :cool:

I do also have Mackie SWA1801's, but they are not necessary in most situations. Doubling up on my RW3's is fine.

Plus I use a proper amp - QSC RMX2450 - which just loves powering double up cabs. Very full sound as you get some serious air movement. When you add the bass to a pair of doubled up cabs then its a monster sound. Its just a lot of moveing about and for some of the venues we have done spending half an hour before the job messing with the drive rack is not in the program.

Bigger jobs, we do spend the time setting ut up.

[jeff wood]

I do also have Mackie SWA1801's, but they are not necessary in most situations. Doubling up on my RW3's is fine.

Plus I use a proper amp - QSC RMX2450 - which just loves powering double up cabs. Very full sound as you get some serious air movement. When you add the bass to a pair of doubled up cabs then its a monster sound. Its just a lot of moveing about and for some of the venues we have done spending half an hour before the job messing with the drive rack is not in the program.

Bigger jobs, we do spend the time setting ut up.


SWA1801's, cool, now thats what im talking about..

why not just use that sub and two of your rw3's

instead of 4 rw3's i mean ???

[STEVE HANLEY]

112 posts so far and counting:D :D :D I have to go out now. Come on people get this thread past the 200 mark for when I come in tonight at 8:30. As there's sod all on the box and as Penmar says I like a good read:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

[jeff wood]

lol, I'm good with Forums arnt I :)

its all good fun,,dont just get offended anyone or take it all too seriously..



anyway, I'm gonna chill out from this before I offend anyone,,,

i think to be safe, I'm gonna go and start another thread about Women DJs or DJ's who wear waistcoats....

[NKR]

SWA1801's, cool, now thats what im talking about..

why not just use that sub and two of your rw3's

instead of 4 rw3's i mean ???

Air movement on the RW3's is much better when doubled up. Only use doubled up in bigger venues though. The other reason is the QSC performs better with the bigger load on it, so its pushing at 4ohms rather than 8.

Now I have a bigger trailer the bass will be making more appearances, but I don't think its essential.

I do understand you were talking about jokers with two 15" soundlabs on sticks running them off some chinese hamplifier they bought for a tenner is not good.

[NKR]

lol, I'm good with Forums arnt I :)

its all good fun,,dont just get offended anyone or take it all too seriously..



anyway, I'm gonna chill out from this before I offend anyone,,,

i think to be safe, I'm gonna go and start another thread about Women DJs or DJ's who wear waistcoats....

Seeing as you are only down the road from us we should meet up some time.

Your setup does look awesome by the way.

[simonp]

I'm gonna go and start another thread about Women DJs or DJ's who wear waistcoats....

Sweet Baby Jesus :eek: Brave or stupido, i haven't worked out yet :lol:

Just getting ready for the "incoming" coming Jeff's way :sofa: :sofa: :sofa: - and my sofa's have double armour plating

[Corabar Entertainment]

Sweet Baby Jesus :eek: Brave or stupido, i haven't worked out yet :lol:I have :whistle:

[JTRS]

For someone like me (and most of you) that tries to supply a professional service, downloads legal digital stuff which is all paid for, has the correct documentation (PLI & PAT, ProDub etc), and pays their taxes etc...it's a real bummer. This particular person does not affect what I do but it still does my head in. I'm no grass though and I am firm believer in that these people will get caught out before long. The sooner the better.


What's so wrong with being a grass then?

You say the sooner the better with regards to them getting caught, the only way they'll get caught is if someone does grass on them, so why not do it?

(I had a similar problem a while back, a few people on here pointed me in the right direction with regards of who to ring etc and funnily enough that particular DJ is no longer taking bookings)

JTRS

[Shakermaker Promotions]

It's not in my nature to do it, that's why!!
Let those people hang themselves....and they will.

[Twinspin]

On a disco gig i use bass on every gig more or less and agree it sounds nice with that extra bass. But sometimes i just take my 12" RCF tops out on their own and they sound good on their own. But i wouldnt think it brought the business into dis-repute not using it.

There is worse things like trying to take on a large gig with not enough sound reinforcement to cope. If i do a larger gig i have access to some L'acoustics SB series/ RCF TT series. I can hire it in from HPSS in Hull subject to availability if i ever need a large system for a big gig and the company will drop the system off at the venue set it up.... pick it up at end of the night. But ive never needed it but its there if i did.

For example the venue i did at weekend. Lazaats. Its a very posh upmarket restaurant and i couldnt use my bass in there. When i did a soundcheck with just the tops. The manager asked me if i could turn the bass down.

thats coming from 12" tops on their own. I didnt have them running loud. But if id of used any extra bass in there.... the venue manager would have probably tried to strangle me.

It was the same when i worked in the venues marquee the other year when Peter (excalibur) helped me with the gig.

[Steve the DJ]

Good to see jeff is on form as usual...

:approve:

[rob1963]

Having read this thread, I fail to understand why some people think music needs loads of extra bass to guarantee it will sound good, whether it's a DJ or some idiot who pulls up next to you at some traffic lights with his windows wound down, the music on high volume & the bass on maximum.

If you ask me, the only thing it guarantees is a headache!

:shrug:

[Twinspin]

Having read this thread, I fail to understand why some people think music needs loads of extra bass to guarantee it will sound good, whether it's a DJ or some idiot who pulls up next to you at some traffic lights with his windows wound down, the music on high volume & the bass on maximum.

If you ask me, the only thing it guarantees is a headache!

:shrug:

harshness id say was the main thing id say gives people headache. Im not labelling anyone by saying that. Ive been to parties before and heard some systems in use... when they are cranked up they sound very harsh.

[JTRS]

Are we looking at the bass/sound issue from a DJ point of view or a customer point of view?

I ask because as DJ's we are used to dealing with sound on a regular basis, so to our ears we can hear differences that the average customer doesn't notice or register.

I've never had a customer complain about my sound system (other than the ones who sit next to the speakers and then say can you turn it down), and I don't use subs.

JTRS

[jeff wood]

Its a very posh upmarket restaurant.


A posh upmarker restaurant in Hull ?

Thats McDonalds surely :D


And yeah John, there will be times when due to venue accoustics perhaps when just small speakers will be ok..


Having read this thread, I fail to understand why some people think music needs loads of extra bass to guarantee it will sound good, whether it's a DJ or some idiot who pulls up next to you at some traffic lights with his windows wound down, the music on high volume & the bass on maximum.

If you ask me, the only thing it guarantees is a headache!

:shrug:

you cant compare a decent DJ set up to the sort of system that boy racers have, totally different..

when you have subs, you get that extra kick that makes it nicer to dance to,

also because they are on the floor, you kind of feel it in your feet..

there is a reason why 99% of nighclubs use subs,,,


I have :whistle:



you know me Ang:whistle:


Good to see jeff is on form as usual...

:approve:



Gracias Amigo...

you know I think that Cav should come on here and start his " should young DJs should be allowed to do weddings" thread


:D

[Corabar Entertainment]

Not got the hang of 'multiquote' yet Jeff, have you? :p :p :p

Don't worry, I've just merged your 4 posts together for you! :ner:

[DJ Jules]

On a disco gig i use bass on every gig more or less and agree it sounds nice with that extra bass. But sometimes i just take my 12" RCF tops out on their own and they sound good on their own. But i wouldnt think it brought the business into dis-repute not using it.

However, using speakers without stands (just sat on the floor) probably doesn't do anyone any favours.

Julian

[A1DL]

harshness id say was the main thing id say gives people headache.

I would agree with you on that point, John. You're more likely to have a headache and ringing ears from a top heavy system ripping your face off, than you are from strong LF reinforcement.

However, that shouldn't be taken as licence to use a stack of 18" subs at Aunt Maud's 80th birthday ;)

As has already been stated, it's about the right tools for the job. For a small mobile disco, a pair of good quality passive boxes, suitably raised so the compression driver is above head level, constitutes the right tools.

For larger events, an active system will indeed give a much fuller sound across the frequency spectrum audible to the human ear, which, agreed, is more important when playing modern dance music, where the LF is fundamental to the material being reproduced. But there's also a lot of other genres where extended LF is of little importance.

Personally I would say that any DJ with an ego the size of his subs, whom uses a ridiculous amount of LF transducers at a party which does not want or need them, gives just as bad as a name to the industry as a DJ with insufficient equipment - because he/she's not using the right tools for the job.

[jeff wood]

Not got the hang of 'multiquote' yet Jeff, have you? :p :p :p

Don't worry, I've just merged your 4 posts together for you! :ner:



I know how to do it Ang,,just find it easier to let you do it for me :evelgrin:

[Corabar Entertainment]

Now that you've told me that, I won't feel guilty about deleting them next time :D

(PS: What's the 3-commas thing all about anyhow? - or do you just feel the same about commas as you do about speakers - the more the better :p)

[A1DL]

(PS: What's the 3-commas thing all about anyhow? - or do you just feel the same about commas as you do about speakers - the more the better :p)

Maybe he's Clifford's long lost cousin, Angela :eek:

[Twinspin]

I would agree with you on that point, John. You're more likely to have a headache and ringing ears from a top heavy system ripping your face off, than you are from strong LF reinforcement.

However, that shouldn't be taken as licence to use a stack of 18" subs at Aunt Maud's 80th birthday ;)

As has already been stated, it's about the right tools for the job. For a small mobile disco, a pair of good quality passive boxes, suitably raised so the compression driver is above head level, constitutes the right tools.

For larger events, an active system will indeed give a much fuller sound across the frequency spectrum audible to the human ear, which, agreed, is more important when playing modern dance music, where the LF is fundamental to the material being reproduced. But there's also a lot of other genres where extended LF is of little importance.

Personally I would say that any DJ with an ego the size of his subs, whom uses a ridiculous amount of LF transducers at a party which does not want or need them, gives just as bad as a name to the industry as a DJ with insufficient equipment - because he/she's not using the right tools for the job.


depends if Aunt Maud likes hardcore or hard house (insert any other chavvy music):D

and jeff :p http://www.lazaat.com
close but no cigar :D

[Corabar Entertainment]

Maybe he's Clifford's long lost cousin, Angela :eek:
Funny you should mention that, because I thought you were having a 'Clifford' moment a short while ago:-

Personally I would say that any DJ with an ego the size of his subs, whom uses a ridiculous amount of LF transducers at a party which does not want or need them, gives just as bad as a name to the industry as a DJ with insufficient equipment - because he/she's not using the right tools for the job.:eek: :eek: :eek:


:whistle:

Anyway... I'm dragging this off-topic (:sorry:)

:ontopic: :D :D

[Daryll]

"A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" :D

My tops are only an 8" plus hf horn , so do use subs all the time.

Daryll

[Twinspin]

"A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" :D

My tops are only an 8" plus hf horn , so do use subs all the time.

Daryll

im guessing you have an active system like a HK Audio lucas or something similar. If so then the bass is needed for them to work.

[Daryll]

im guessing you have an active system like a HK Audio lucas or something similar. If so then the bass is needed for them to work.
no mate its a passive system , the tops are smartsound , the subs are Class D , sorry , no link to the tops

Daryll

[Excalibur]

On a disco gig i use bass on every gig more or less and agree it sounds nice with that extra bass. But sometimes i just take my 12" RCF tops out on their own and they sound good on their own. But i wouldnt think it brought the business into dis-repute not using it.



For example the venue i did at weekend. Lazaats. Its a very posh upmarket restaurant and i couldnt use my bass in there. When i did a soundcheck with just the tops. The manager asked me if i could turn the bass down.
thats coming from 12" tops on their own. I didnt have them running loud. But if id of used any extra bass in there.... the venue manager would have probably tried to strangle me.

.
I heard them. They sounded ace. No subs needed. I couldn't believe how well they ran.


A posh upmarker restaurant in Hull ?

Thats McDonalds surely :D


And yeah John, there will be times when due to venue accoustics perhaps when just small speakers will be ok..



And in the case of the venue I'm thinking of, a set of steps like the North face of the Eiger. ;)


However, using speakers without stands (just sat on the floor) probably doesn't do anyone any favours.

Julian
Err, swings and roundabouts. More bass, muffled top. And even I can't get my twin 15's on stands, even with three shredded wheat. :( :( :o :o


However, that shouldn't be taken as licence to use a stack of 18" subs at Aunt Maud's 80th birthday ;)



Personally I would say that any DJ with an ego the size of his subs, whom uses a ridiculous amount of LF transducers at a party which does not want or need them, gives just as bad as a name to the industry as a DJ with insufficient equipment - because he/she's not using the right tools for the job.
If you're going to name and shame me, it won't work. :p :p :D :D :D :D

[ppentertainments]

Well Jeff - I have just came back from a client meeting. I arrived in my car which is the same vehicle used to transport my equipment. The client is having a small intimate wedding and specifically requested 'no modern dancey rubbish', and certainly no 'boom boom' all night (his words). He saw me at another wedding which I only used 2 tops (as I do for most weddings) and booked me after sampling my disco. Also I informed them that although all my music collection is legal, I do not mix it up - he said he was not wanting all that 'fancy stuff' just good music. I of course informed him he is totally wrong - I did wear a suit though. ;)

He was going to swap my disco services in exchange for nearly £600 for a disco on a Thursday. I told him I was unable to do it as it is not what he should want and I would tarnish the perception of DJ's if undertaking such a booking - is that ok ???? :D :D :p :D :D

[Corabar Steve]

Having read this thread, I fail to understand why some people think music needs loads of extra bass to guarantee it will sound good,
Because modern dance music consists mainly of bass beats & high pitched squeaks chirps & bleeps (ignoring the vocals). Take the bass away & what you are left with sounds pretty kak

[jeff wood]

I would agree with you on that point, John. You're more likely to have a headache and ringing ears from a top heavy system ripping your face off, than you are from strong LF reinforcement.

However, that shouldn't be taken as licence to use a stack of 18" subs at Aunt Maud's 80th birthday ;)

As has already been stated, it's about the right tools for the job. For a small mobile disco, a pair of good quality passive boxes, suitably raised so the compression driver is above head level, constitutes the right tools.

For larger events, an active system will indeed give a much fuller sound across the frequency spectrum audible to the human ear, which, agreed, is more important when playing modern dance music, where the LF is fundamental to the material being reproduced. But there's also a lot of other genres where extended LF is of little importance.

Personally I would say that any DJ with an ego the size of his subs, whom uses a ridiculous amount of LF transducers at a party which does not want or need them, gives just as bad as a name to the industry as a DJ with insufficient equipment - because he/she's not using the right tools for the job.


just a couple of points,,

why does the size of the party matter, you agree with me that an active system (subs and tops, doesnt have to be active by the way ) gives a fuller sound, but you say for "larger events"

I dont get that personally, I think it doesnt matter if its a party for 10 people or a party for 500 people.

The party of 10 still deserve that fuller sound dont they ?


And what musical genres dont you think benefit from subs ?

I dont think theres many is there ?


And yeah, agree with your last point...

[jeff wood]

Maybe he's Clifford's long lost cousin, Angela :eek:

Oh and my name is Jeff by the way....

[StarZSoundS]

what you are left with sounds pretty kak

What you start with sounds pretty Kak to me as well...:D :D :D :D :D

[jeff wood]

Well Jeff - I have just came back from a client meeting. I arrived in my car which is the same vehicle used to transport my equipment. The client is having a small intimate wedding and specifically requested 'no modern dancey rubbish', and certainly no 'boom boom' all night (his words). He saw me at another wedding which I only used 2 tops (as I do for most weddings) and booked me after sampling my disco. Also I informed them that although all my music collection is legal, I do not mix it up - he said he was not wanting all that 'fancy stuff' just good music. I of course informed him he is totally wrong - I did wear a suit though. ;)

He was going to swap my disco services in exchange for nearly £600 for a disco on a Thursday. I told him I was unable to do it as it is not what he should want and I would tarnish the perception of DJ's if undertaking such a booking - is that ok ???? :D :D :p :D :D



nice one,,cant argue with that, £600 for a mid week wedding with not a lot of kit... that is stunning....

[Excalibur]

Oh :Censored:er. Now I'm really in the brown stuff. :o :o :o :o My erudite, witty, factual, constructive and cogent argument now holds no water. :eek: :( :( :( :( :( I have shot the very ground from under my own feet! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Tomorrow's PA. I don't think I can cope with the shame, I may have to fall upon my sword. Farewell Lads and Lasses, it's been nice knowing you.

[jeff wood]

nevermind that :)

I want to know how to get £600 for a mid week booking...

Thats not even in London, its in the North East..

I am honestly impressed !

[ppentertainments]

nevermind that :)

I want to know how to get £600 for a mid week booking...

Thats not even in London, its in the North East..

I am honestly impressed !

Main reason - sell yourself not your equipment and be interested in them.

Out of the 40 minute appointment, I think we talked about equipment for 2 minutes, the disco for 10 and the other 28 was about their wedding.

This fee does include a slideshow I must admit (but no other 'extras').

*just to rub it in, it takes 6 minutes to drive to the venue*

Anyone who knows me, know I do not use expensive equipment, rarely spend money, but run totally legal and provide a 'service' not a music playout system with a DJ stood behind. ;)

PS Why should a midweek booking be any cheaper ??

[Mark Wild]

Main reason - sell yourself not your equipment and be interested in them.

Out of the 40 minute appointment, I think we talked about equipment for 2 minutes, the disco for 10 and the other 28 was about their wedding.

This fee does include a slideshow I must admit (but no other 'extras').

*just to rub it in, it takes 6 minutes to drive to the venue*

Anyone who knows me, know I do not use expensive equipment, rarely spend money, but run totally legal and provide a 'service' not a music playout system with a DJ stood behind. ;)


Don't you include amateur photography in your service?

[spin mobile disco]

This post took off fast didn'nt it. Turnen my back and well into the double figures.

I like subs for certain rooms and audiences the yare a must. However to say that speakers that are not reinforced with subs is a very unusual view one that I do not think I agree with in any form.
I personally used pairs of speakers with no subs for years with no problems and are well aware of the ideal placement in corners etc to enhance the overall effect of bass. But I still take my 15" speakers out on there own for smaller gigs and rarely have them above 50% and the tone of sound is exactly the same as the artist intended it to sound like.

On your other question you have yet to hear a pair of 15s' that sound like a sub try listening to the RCF TT 15's a little expensive but A friend of mine used a pair for a year and his subs simply couldnt keep up and couldnt be heard over them so he ditched them. And they were good EV subs as well.

I think it is your generalisation that is getting under everyones skin on this one. Goto your local cinema listen to the bass on the movie then try to find the subs. And that is with larger audiences. Simply very good placement and a good audio management system.

Oh and in reply to the post about what the guy said to that way back on page 5 of the posts. He left in a huff. As I was about a foot taller than him I don't think other action crossed his mind :)

[ppentertainments]

Don't you include amateur photography in your service?
Not here no. That is for the 'cheapo gigs' in workingmens clubs etc, where the budget is limited so the amateur photography helps make a booking worthwhile.

[A1DL]

just a couple of points,,

why does the size of the party matter...

The party of 10 still deserve that fuller sound dont they ?



A pair of good quality passive boxes are typically adequate for a more intimate gathering which is likely to be in a smaller space, where the last thing that anyone wants is to create earth shattering bass.


subs and tops, doesnt have to be active by the way

Oh dear. So you're going to send a full range signal into all the cabs. Your middle name isn't Nigel, is it? Don't do it, it will sound horrid.



And what musical genres dont you think benefit from subs ?


Most popular genres played at sensible levels at small family mobile discos, with the exception of the modern, bass heavy genres, where the LF extension really makes a difference.


Oh and my name is Jeff by the way....

We know. Your style of punctuation made me reminisce of a much loved and dearly missed friend, Clifford, whose posts on the forum were quite colourful and unique (back in the day) :) ;)

[OllieJames]

We know. Your style of punctuation made me reminisce of a much loved and dearly missed friend, Clifford, whose posts on the forum were quite colourful and unique (back in the day) :) ;)

I've not had the pleasure of Clifford, I don't believe... That's not 'Badger' is it? I do however remember the delights of Nigel, and the wonderful Damian - who, I have had a nice 'run in' again with recently!

[jeff wood]

Main reason - sell yourself not your equipment and be interested in them.

Out of the 40 minute appointment, I think we talked about equipment for 2 minutes, the disco for 10 and the other 28 was about their wedding.

This fee does include a slideshow I must admit (but no other 'extras').

*just to rub it in, it takes 6 minutes to drive to the venue*

Anyone who knows me, know I do not use expensive equipment, rarely spend money, but run totally legal and provide a 'service' not a music playout system with a DJ stood behind. ;)

PS Why should a midweek booking be any cheaper ??


agree with the last point, i dont charge any less for mid week,

but this is interesting stuff, maybe you should start a thread on the subject..

i'd love to know in more detail how you do it, and what your technique is,,

obviously appreciate you dont want to give away too many secrets,,

[A1DL]

I've not had the pleasure of Clifford, I don't believe... That's not 'Badger' is it? I do however remember the delights of Nigel, and the wonderful Damian - who, I have had a nice 'run in' again with recently!

yup :) I forgot all about the annoying devil Damian :cool:

[OllieJames]

yup :) I forgot all about the annoying devil Damian :cool:

Oooh, have I got a story for the Supporters Section ;)

[jeff wood]

A pair of good quality passive boxes are typically adequate for a more intimate gathering which is likely to be in a smaller space, where the last thing that anyone wants is to create earth shattering bass.



Oh dear. So you're going to send a full range signal into all the cabs. Your middle name isn't Nigel, is it? Don't do it, it will sound horrid.




Most popular genres played at sensible levels at small family mobile discos, with the exception of the modern, bass heavy genres, where the LF extension really makes a difference.



We know. Your style of punctuation made me reminisce of a much loved and dearly missed friend, Clifford, whose posts on the forum were quite colourful and unique (back in the day) :) ;)



oh ok, so you are saying the size of the venue, not how many people are there,

spose that depends on your definition of a smaller space, Ive done some quite small venues and ive always used subs, always thought it sounded better,

and of course you dont have to blast it,,



your second point,,no,, you can have fully passive systems with subs, for example Martin Audio subs like the S18 have a passive cross over inside that feeds the mid and treble to the top speakers.


you havnt answered my question, I was interested to know which genres of music you think didnt benefit from using subs, you said there were lots..

re last point,,just didnt sound right saying "him" when you know what my name is,

[StarZSoundS]

whats bugging me slightly about this thread,, is that you need to keep things in perspective.

i'll try to explain the way i feel about it.


firstly, what really gets me is mobile djs who have a dis regard for safety..

ie, DJ's who use un safe stands, truss etc, speaker stands that can be knocked over easily, and worst of all, djs who use those light boxe things with no covers over the bulbs, ive even seen some with bulbs actually missing.

those sort of dj's should be shot.

also, on the safety subject,,how many djs use normal cars, and overload them with dj equipment ?



second thing that bugs me is djs with tatty looking and/or rubbish gear.

that brings our industry down..


third thing,, djs who make no effort to improve the way thay actually dj.

ie, dont learn to mix, dont research new songs etc


fourth,, djs who dont use the correct equipment for the job, ie, using speakers without subs, or speakers that arnt designed for dj ing (cough Bose L1's , lol)


fifth thing.... dj's who dont pay tax !!

sixth,, dj's who bring their mates along (sorry i mean "roadies" )



so thats six things that i think bring this industry down,,,

and i havnt even got to pli, pro dub, nadj etc




and also, dj's who bend the rules slightly and illegally download the odd mash up and hot tune that you cant get anywhere else,,,i say well done to them

because they are the ones who are improving our image !


as do people like myself who alter songs (and vids ) to make them more mixable.


as a quick example, recently ive played the Rude Boy Vs Kingston Town Video Mash up a lot, which I "Illegally Downloaded",, and its gone down a treat, especially at school proms and 21st's..

so, who has done the most to improve the image of mobile dj's ?

myself, or someone who's squarer than square who would never dream of downloading anythng slightly dodgy and as a result of that, misses out on all the exiting stuff ???

We should save this post Jeff for when the Forum goes quiet...there are about 12 interesting threads in it!!;) ;) ;) ;)

[jeff wood]

no need,, for those moments when the forum goes quiet, just email me and i'll pop by and start everyone off :)

honestly i dont mind...

[OllieJames]

no need,, for those moments when the forum goes quiet, just email me and i'll pop by and start everyone off :)

honestly i dont mind...

How kind :D

[Mark Wild]

no need,, for those moments when the forum goes quiet, just email me and i'll pop by and start everyone off :)

honestly i dont mind...


:youdaman:

[A1DL]

you can have fully passive systems with subs, for example Martin Audio subs like the S18 have a passive cross over inside that feeds the mid and treble to the top speakers.

You can... however if you have invested in separate LF boxes, then surely go the whole journey and run the system actively, where you have control over (at the very least) the LF/MHF crossover point, amplifier redundancy, multiple amplifiers each doing less work and ultimately a system with greater clarity, control and protection.



you havnt answered my question, I was interested to know which genres of music you think didnt benefit from using subs, you said there were lots..


I have answered the question, as indeed many others have intimated same throughout this thread... you have simply failed to comprehend or acknowledge what's been said.


oh ok, so you are saying the size of the venue, not how many people are there,


with smaller venues, the two tend to often go hand in hand.

[jeff wood]

Much LOL :)

I am not worthy though...

Theres actually someone on the "other forum", who started a topic called "spotty faced DJs" and said that young dj's shouldnt be allowed to do weddings, lol

Now that was a legend of a thread, had thousands of replies,,

But dont worry, I wont be starting that one on here,,I'm not that brave...

[OllieJames]

Theres actually someone on the "other forum", who started a topic called "spotty faced DJs" and said that young dj's shouldnt be allowed to do weddings, lol

Now that was a legend of a thread, had thousands of replies,,

But dont worry, I wont be starting that one on here,,I'm not that brave...

Been done before, countless times anyway ;)

[jeff wood]

You can... however if you have invested in separate LF boxes, then surely go the whole journey and run the system actively, where you have control over (at the very least) the LF/MHF crossover point, amplifier redundancy, multiple amplifiers each doing less work and ultimately a system with greater clarity, control and protection.



I have answered the question, as indeed many others have intimated same throughout this thread... you have simply failed to comprehend or acknowledge what's been said.



with smaller venues, the two tend to often go hand in hand.


first point, in the case of the Martin Audio subs, the Low and mid high cross over points are set to match the Tops,,

running a system this way can actually be really good,,I had an MA system before my Ohm system and I ran it fully passively off one Lab amp and it sounded brilliant.

you have the advantage doing away with a box of electronics (active cross over ) on the signal chain, which gives you a purer sound.

But anyway, thats another debate for another day ;)



And sorry,,you said that there were lots of genres that didnt benefit from the use of subs,,I was just hoping you were going to make a list of some of those genres..

[A1DL]

in the case of the Martin Audio subs, the Low and mid high cross over points are set to match the Tops,,

which I assume is as I said, i.e. they cannot be varied, or possibly may be switchable between two X-over points, at best.


I had an MA system before my Ohm system and I ran it fully passively off one Lab amp and it sounded brilliant.

Martin Audio make some lovely boxes, I'm sure it sounded good. And I'm also sure that run actively it would have sounded even better.


you have the advantage doing away with a box of electronics (active cross over ) on the signal chain, which gives you a purer sound.

Abject nonsense. The sound quality and other inherent benefits of deploying a good quality DSP far outweigh your point about degrading the sound by introducing another processor in the signal chain. Indeed most FOH systems still have an analogue DN360 or FCS960 between the desk and the DSP, as it's 100 times quicker to grab a fader than dial through a set of menus on the DSP when you hear a problem looming.


I was just hoping you were going to make a list of some of those genres.

Keep hoping. It's been answered and as far as I'm concerned that particular point is dead & buried and has become rather boring.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Fair play to Jeff for saying and defending his views and I can see what he means about feeling the beat as much as hearing it.

Naturally in our game one of the most important skills is using common sense, be it with music selection or kit selection. I think the comment about people who dont use subs wasnt too clever as you can flip it and say people who do use subs always have far too much bass. Sound is a personal perference thing too so naturally not everyone is going to argee.

[OllieJames]

Naturally in our game one of the most important skills is using common sense, be it with music selection or kit selection. I think the comment about people who dont use subs wasnt too clever as you can flip it and say people who do use subs always have far too much bass. Sound is a personal perference thing too so naturally not everyone is going to argee.

:agree:

I don't have my own subs, but quite often borrow a couple off of a friend. I like to use subs as much as possible for sound quality purposes and to give a richer sound - however for smaller venues/amounts of guests and shorter events, I don't use them.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Naturally in our game one of the most important skills is using common sense

Which in my experience is seriously lacking sometimes.

[womble]

I don't have my own subs


I like to use subs as much as possible

Wanna buy some subs?

:D :D :D

[NKR]

Wanna buy some subs?

:D :D :D

If you are good I will bring an SWA1801 with me when you come to roady. The other is in SWA1801 repair world as it has a couple of knackered fuse carriers. Just waiting for the genius to fix it - if it is better by the time you come out with us I will bring the pair.

[jeff wood]

which I assume is as I said, i.e. they cannot be varied, or possibly may be switchable between two X-over points, at best.



Martin Audio make some lovely boxes, I'm sure it sounded good. And I'm also sure that run actively it would have sounded even better.



Abject nonsense. The sound quality and other inherent benefits of deploying a good quality DSP far outweigh your point about degrading the sound by introducing another processor in the signal chain. Indeed most FOH systems still have an analogue DN360 or FCS960 between the desk and the DSP, as it's 100 times quicker to grab a fader than dial through a set of menus on the DSP when you hear a problem looming.



Keep hoping. It's been answered and as far as I'm concerned that particular point is dead & buried and has become rather boring.



abjct nonsense hey,, man that hurts...

actually i did run the system actively aswell, and I preferred the sound of it when run passively.

you cant make a sound purer by adding something,

thats why in the world of hifi everything is made as simple as possible,

ie, you never see processing , dsp, graphic equalisers etc,,


but anyway, leave this one for now, i'm trying to watch the end of Junior Apprentice:cool:

[A1DL]

thats why in the world of hifi everything is made as simple as possible,


Like directional speaker cables and 13a-IEC320 assemblies that cost >£4,000.
That's audiophoolery for you!

[Tony Scott]

sixth,, dj's who bring their mates along (sorry i mean "roadies" )

... why do you have a problem with that? My roadie comes to almost every gig I do and is a valued asset. :confused: :confused:

[mikeee]

Like directional speaker cables and 13a-IEC320 assemblies that cost >£4,000.
That's audiophoolery for you!

I do like a good thread, but I just damaged my computer with Tea reading this, all down the monitor in to the keyboard :) :) :) :) :)

[rob1963]

Because modern dance music consists mainly of bass beats & high pitched squeaks chirps & bleeps (ignoring the vocals). Take the bass away & what you are left with sounds pretty kak

As previosuly mentioned, surely it's all a matter of individual taste as to how much bass is the ideal amount?

I'm not playing modern dance music all the time anyway...in fact I don't play much of it at all.

I think subs are more at home in a club or at an 18th than at a wedding.

[Excalibur]

Is it safe to come out yet? :sofa:

[Javlingames]

Morning happy campers, How are we all this morning?

[Excalibur]

Morning happy campers, How are we all this morning?

Shellshocked!! :eek:

[Javlingames]

Bass..............How low can you go. Was that simon harris?

[WWDJ]

Bass..............How low can you go. Was that simon harris?

Yes. Choon!

You need 18" subs to play this one properly. :D

[Excalibur]

Yes. Choon!

You need 18" subs to play this one properly. :D

Pah! 18" is for wusses. This is the kiddy. May have to build a pair. :D :D
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/incredible-60-inch-subwoofer

[SC Events]

Pah! 18" is for wusses. This is the kiddy. May have to build a pair. :D :D
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/incredible-60-inch-subwoofer

:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

[WWDJ]

Pah! 18" is for wusses. This is the kiddy. May have to build a pair. :D :D
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/incredible-60-inch-subwoofer

A bit awkward for upstairs venues :D

[JTRS]

I was thinking about running a World Cup Sweepstake, but now I'm considering running one on how many pages this thread will run to discussing speakers.

JTRS

[Excalibur]

I was thinking about running a World Cup Sweepstake, but now I'm considering running one on how many pages this thread will run to discussing speakers.

JTRS

A lot longer. We haven't got near Mansfield yet. ;) :D :D

[Vectis]

Pah! 18" is for wusses. This is the kiddy. May have to build a pair. :D :D
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/incredible-60-inch-subwoofer

Ah! The good ol' Thunder. I've got a couple of them lurking around the lockup somewhere. I tend not to use them too much for my predominantly weddings-in-nice-venues biased business where I tend to get away with a pair of Mackies and an occasional 15" sub, yet every single questionnaire I get returned confirms that the audio was of "excellent quality". :)

[Excalibur]

Ah! The good ol' Thunder. I've got a couple of them lurking around the lockup somewhere. I tend not to use them too much for my predominantly weddings-in-nice-venues biased business where I tend to get away with a pair of Mackies and an occasional 15" sub, yet every single questionnaire I get returned confirms that the audio was of "excellent quality". :)

Ah, but just think how much more they'd enjoy it if you loosened all their fillings. ;) ;) :D :D

[Vectis]

Ah, but just think how much more they'd enjoy it if you loosened all their fillings. ;) ;) :D :D

Maybe. But on the questionnaire they can tick Excellent, Good, Average or Sub-Standard. So what do I win other than a hole in my bank balance and a hernia? :)

[Excalibur]

Maybe. But on the questionnaire they can tick Excellent, Good, Average or Sub-Standard. So what do I win other than a hole in my bank balance and a hernia? :)

Respect, Bro. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[sleah]

yes it does,,,

you're adding the publics assumption that the sound from a mobile dj is inferior to that of a club/pub dj .

ive heard about people who are now hiring in big systems and ipod dj ing at their weddings because they dont want a weedy sounding system...


Sorry Jeff, but that's rubbish.

To suggest that people without subs have a weedy sounding system is ridiculous.

Speaking as someone with an electronics background, who understands the physics and electronics of sound... then Jeff

FFS PLEASE STOP :Censored:ING BANGING ON ABOUT SUBS!!!!!

You are coming across as someone who knows next to bugger all about sound reproduction and speaker systems. Not saying you don't, but that's how you come across.

There is no difference (well almost no) between a front loaded 15" sub and a front loaded 15" full range cab. If both are fed the same signal they will both produce near-enough the same bass. So it's likely that a full-range cab will be perfectly suitable for many an occassion, without additional sub.
Selection of sound equipment is very subjective, no DJ can carry a sound system that will give 'ideal' sound in every venue, for every type of music and every size of audience.
The DJs ability to 'tweak' the sound is as important as their selection of system, for the reasons given.

You are correct about suitability, for example using hi-fi type speakers would be just silly.
The badge on the speaker is irellevent, it is it's ability to do the job that matters.

Apart from that.... wot everyone else has said:D

Oh, mixing was only touched upon, it has been said before on this forum....
(stand by for shouting again:p)

A DJ DOES NOT NEED TO BE ABLE TO MIX TO BE A DJ (good, bad or indifferent;))




Please note that I'm not agreeing with you Rob, just putting my own thoughts across :sj:
Thanks for claifying that Steve, I thought hell was frezzing over for a moment;):D:D:D

[rob1963]

Thanks for claifying that Steve, I thought hell was freezing over for a moment;):D:D:D

:Laugh:

[DB Entertainments]

I'd disagree about it having an adverse effect, the cowboys make the good ones look better. I always get a positive reaction from venue managers when I ask about FAP's or they see me taping down loose wires etc.

I've also read a lot of posts on here (most by Shakermaker) who also comments on the positive reaction of venues and repeat bookings because he was more professional in his approach than others the venue had seen.

I'm aware of what others do but I don't worry about it because it's out of my control and nothing I say or do will change that.

JTRS

Agree :)

[Corabar Steve]

& the prize for today's longest dead, resurrected thread goes to........

[DB Entertainments]

I was 'Searching' the Forum and not being LAzy. :)

Hi 5!

[funkymook]

I was 'Searching' the Forum and not being LAzy. :)

Hi 5!

I thought you were so appalled you'd only just calmed down enough to post now! :)

[DB Entertainments]

lol ;)

[Excalibur]

& the prize for today's longest dead, resurrected thread goes to........

Errrr, is there a prize for the :muppet: who just read it from end to end to see what it was about? ( And really wishes he hadn't) :( :( :o :o :o :o

[Alchemy]

Just as I think we are making some kind of headway as an industry things happen which seem to move the bar back down again.

On this and another forum in the last couple of days, I have read how DJs..

Use illegal downloads and mashups.
Have no regard for the public's safety by not using safety bonds.
Placing lights and equipment in dangerous places.
Not being insured for business with their vehicles.
Having no regard for copyright law.
Not using pro equipment needed for the job.

It really makes me wonder why we bother sometimes. :bang:

I started reading this thinking "I can't think of any of these points being raised on this forum" then I got to the bottom of the page, saw the posting date and gave up :daft:

[Excalibur]

I started reading this thinking "I can't think of any of these points being raised on this forum" then I got to the bottom of the page, saw the posting date and gave up :daft:

Wish I had. :( :( :( :( :( :(

[DB Entertainments]

Errrr, is there a prize for the :muppet: who just read it from end to end to see what it was about? ( And really wishes he hadn't) :( :( :o :o :o :o


Wish I had. :( :( :( :( :( :(

:rolf: