Yet another pricing thread...

[Steve the DJ]

Yesterday in Darren's "I'm Appalled (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26201)" thread it was suggested that "cowboys" or those that flaunt the law and cut numerous corners have...


...no real costs and therefore go out at silly low prices therefore pushing the average price down and therefore having an effect generally on the industry.

Which is true to some extent but I actually believe that "cowboys" are less relevant than ever in our industry and it isn't in fact them that help to surpress prices.

I said...


I don't buy that argument because through the forums I know lots of DJs who are fully legal, pay tax, are fully insured etc. and still undercut others because they charge what they want as it is a fun sideline, rather than what they should if it was a full time business.

That to me is the biggest "issue" for full time business owners, not cowboys or those who cut corners, but those who are 100% legal but continue to offer a great service at hobby prices.

Which of course is entirely their perogative and it's great for the clients but keeps prices artifically low for everyone else.

I have a few questions for forum members:

Do you agree or disagree with my comments and why?

If you run a fully legal business as a hobby on a part time basis, what motivates you to accept breaking even or perhaps a loss rather than pushing into profit, however small?

What scares you most about charging more for your services?

And finally...

If you have another job to rely on in terms of income do you find that your desire to get out and entertain always takes priority over the price you charge?

Please be genuine and open with your responses, I know discussing pricing is a painful experience for some but lets not try and judge people on what they do before we understand why they do it.

Everyone has different personal circumstances to take into account and perhaps people won't feel so "distraught" over another pricing thread if we try and have a grown up debate about it instead of jumping the gun.

Over to you.

[Charlie Brown]

What a cracking thread Steve.

I can all ready this will be a good'n. :beer1:

[Danno13]

I fully agree with you and have long held this view. Cowboys are easy to spot and my target clientelle will dismiss them for being too cheap anyway, it's a heck of a lot harder to compete with people offering very similar service, but cheaper as they have no real need to earn a liveable salary from it as they have a day job.

[NKR]

As I think I am one of the chaps that most fill the boots you lay before us I will start - or be second if someone beats me to it. We are a part time hobbey operation.

We carry around a pretty nice rig and as there are two of us we can carry a big show - it also means we split the money (well the profits)

We have PAT test certificates and PLI cover and I fill out the annual SA800 partnership return for the revenue.

What motivates me. I love music as does my buddy and people do comment how obvious it is we love our music and playing it. Kev also sings and loves to entertain, so that's what keeps us going out.

The money I make from it pays for my new toys - I love building the rig bigger and better every year. Just had to invest in a bigger trailer. Looking to go full DMX off Martin Light Jockey next year with bigger truss with star cloth backing, which will work great for the Buble Triubte show we want to launch - sorry I digress, but that digression probably underlines that I just love it.
The remainder goes into paying for familly holiday a year. I am well paid during the day and that means I don't need the money (although we would miss it)

We aren't silly cheap and go out for £200 for a DJ service and £400 for a DJ and singer service (2 x 45 minute sets). We are booking up well with no advertising or promotin other than word of mouth and cards at jobs. However, as we have lost jobs becuase we have no web site, that is coming on line soon too, to ensure we look professional.
What scares me about charging more is we will lose work and I want to be out doing this. Once we start to be taking enquiries for dates we are doing all the time then we can drive the prices forward a bit.
However, we won't work for buttons and anything less than £200 has to be mates rates, or an agency filler job where we roll out a much smaller show with cheaper lighting, etc (basically a lot of the bits we used to use, but are retired off the main rig. I am not burning discharge bulbs for buttons money)

We do a damn good job at a price that works for us. I love running the whole thing, I like the fact its ours.

So there you have it. We do it because we like to, but its not about entertaining over money. The two go hand in hand for us. You pay the right money and you get the right show.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry Steve, I am deleting this thread because it is Wednesday. :sj:

[Corabar Entertainment]

:lol:

[jeff wood]

oh go on Darren, threads about pricing are always the best :D

i think its a tough one sometimes

on the one had, you want a decent price, ie, what you think you are worth

but on the hand, you need a price that will get most of your dates filled and ultimately make you the most money.

for example, if you are a full time dj,,then of course you could charge say £400 a gig.

and you might get one a week,

but, say if you charge £300 a gig, then you've got a good chance of getting two a week.

so you're £200 a week better off.


so really, my point is, youve got to work out what the price is, that most people will be happy to pay, and perhaps add a bit on..



I also think its a good idea to have two options,,

I charge £400 for my big set up, or £275 for my smaller set up

that way I dont think i miss anyone, apart from the people who only want to pay £150 or so.

Also, say if someone books my standard option,,then nearer the time, when i contact them to ask for payment etc,, i can offer them the chance to upgrade, sometimes I say its a special priceof £100,, so making it £375,

which is not bad,

and as its nearer the time, they're beginning to get exited about it, and they tend to want to go for the premium package...

[Steve the DJ]

Sorry Steve, I am deleting this thread because it is Wednesday. :sj:


:lol:

Shaun has already put me in the Sin Bin... :p

[Vectis]

for example, if you are a full time dj,,then of course you could charge say £400 a gig.

and you might get one a week,

but, say if you charge £300 a gig, then you've got a good chance of getting two a week.

so you're £200 a week better off.


Not if your per-gig costs are £100 :)

£400 minus fixed costs of £100 = £300 minus tax/NI at, say, 25% (£75) = £225 clear

£600 minus fixed costs of £200 = £400 minus tax/NI at, say, 25% (£100) = £300 clear


200% of the work for 125% of the money? Right...

[funkymook]

I might ramble on a bit here, but just trying to give the situation of sometimes going out at a cheap rate....

I'm what could be called a 'friends and family' DJ, until last year I had a well paid full time job so didn't consider DJ'ing as my main job, but as something I loved to do. Over the years I've built up quite a wide circle of people who regularly book me, and they all can be linked back to close friends (so friends weddings and birthdays, their parents anniverseries, friends of the parents, and so the circle widens).

I have a basic price of £200 which is for local, evening gigs (with an increase depending on times and distance). But I have gone out at much cheaper rates depending on the circumstances. For example, if I know someone doesn't have much money for their wedding (and I do, as I pretty well know/know of everyone I play for) I will discount for them - though I do make it very clear what I'd normally charge and I am doing them a favour. Personally I'd rather they got a decent service from me at a bargain price than they booked someone else who may not be as legit to save a few quid. Though I have also refused to discount some people when I know they can afford the full rate. I admit I am a sucker for a sob story, but I also take a very hard line if anyone tries it on!

I don't consider I undercut anyone, as they wouldn't be booking a more expensive DJ anyway in these particular circumstances (they just couldn't afford it).

Now, after taking redundancy from my job I am looking at DJ'ing as a primary source of income (really don't want to go back to the 9-5 grind). I'm still mainly a 'friends and family' DJ but am starting to advertise a bit more (business cards etc) and will be building a decent webisite soon.

Will I still go out at a reduced rate if I feel the circumstances warrent it -yes!

Will I also start looking at increasing the level of my service to justify (in my own mind) charging more - also yes.

(Increasing my service - adding to the visual impact - colour washes, DJ booth, already have decent playback gear, rcf, denon etc.)

Personally I'm happy with what I do and what I charge and when I offer a discount - though I can totally understand anyone having a different view - and given a well presented argument against giving discounts in these situation I'm not adverse to rethinking how I work.

[Steve the DJ]

As I think I am one of the chaps that most fill the boots you lay before us I will start...

Thanks for your input and your story is very smilar to how I started.

I use to work with another guy and our main motivation was music and kit so everything we earned went into new toys and improving "the show".

At this stage we were charging £175 a night, this was 10 years ago.

So naturally your £200 minimum is interesting because I can't see how a one man band can survive on that, let alone a partnership!

Although as I said earlier, everyone's situation is different and I accept that.

[Shaun]

Shaun has already put me in the Sin Bin... :p

I don't think I've ever put anyone in the Sin Bin!






















............Darren always beats me to it. :d :ph34r:

Sorry for being off topic. Carry on y'all. :)

[Ryu]

I'm a part time DJ, but price myself in accordance with the value of the service I provide, and the fact that I value my social time away from my family. In short, I'm all for maximising my earnings regardless of the fact this isn't my main income.

Whether its full or part time...business is business.

[Steve the DJ]

on the one had, you want a decent price, ie, what you think you are worth

but on the hand, you need a price that will get most of your dates filled and ultimately make you the most money.

I understand what you are saying but I have to admit I have never understood the logic behind it.

If you think you are worth say £400, but are happy to go out for £275 because it fills dates then the reality is you are only worth £275.

There is nothing wrong with that if it fills the diary at a figure that you are happy with, but you can't be worth £x if you are prepared to work for £y, because that makes you worth £y.

[womble]

;)
Not if your per-gig costs are £100 :)

£400 minus fixed costs of £100 = £300 minus tax/NI at, say, 25% (£75) = £225 clear

£600 minus fixed costs of £200 = £400 minus tax/NI at, say, 25% (£100) = £300 clear


200% of the work for 125% of the money? Right...

That seems about right, but for those who love the job it's 125% of the money and an extra night DJ'ing! Win Win! ;)

If you can manage to reduce your costs to sy £10-20 a gig, it's an increase to almost 150% of the cash.

[NKR]

So naturally your £200 minimum is interesting because I can't see how a one man band can survive on that, let alone a partnership!

Although as I said earlier, everyone's situation is different and I accept that.

Its not about surviving as we both have day jobs, so its extra money. We do okay and are doing more singing jobs this year so the average income per job is up to about £283.
Its our hobby that gives us some extra money, so its worth it to us. We also enjoy providing a good service to our customers.
I know other operartions charging more than us locally that are not as good, but hey they still get the work, so we aren't doing anyone any harm at all just pottering around doing what we do. As we don't really advertise we aren't cutting into anyone else's work.
We won't bother with the bridal forums and other forms of advertising as we can't win the jobs as we can't be quick enough off the mark with being busy working most of the time and full time pro's always make teh case against hobbyist's
So we have our little niche that we float around in. So we can afford to do jobs at a price that keeps us in nice toys and some spends.
However, we don't work for buttons as we value what we offer and I won't get into beating other quotes discussions. That's not what we are about.

[Daryll]

If you run a fully legal business as a hobby on a part time basis, what motivates you to accept breaking even or perhaps a loss rather than pushing into profit, however small?

I am forever up grading , maybe if I tried to get the best out of the older gear , I may make a profit . however this question is directly linked to the next.

What scares you most about charging more for your services?

This is totally my own fault , in the old days (BF before forums :D ) I was a cheap dj , not £60 sid but not far off , working with a small client base , it has been difficult to increase prices ,Now I charge my local club £140 for an evenings entertainment , and due to the fact that I get 15-20 gigs a year there , I doubt if they would pay the full price , and for a venue 50 yards away , where the gear can be left until the morning , so I don't want to put this source of income in peril

And finally...

If you have another job to rely on in terms of income do you find that your desire to get out and entertain always takes priority over the price you charge?

To be brutally honest , yes

Daryll

[Steve the DJ]

Its not about surviving as we both have day jobs, so its extra money. We do okay and are doing more singing jobs this year so the average income per job is up to about £283.

Sorry, I didn't word what I meant very well .

I know it isn't crucial to you "surviving" because you have day jobs, so it is a nice "brucie bonus" to spend on things.

Would £200ish be an average price for a disco in your area?

[NKR]

Would £200ish be an average price for a disco in your area?

Ooh don't draw me on that as I will get cut down.

WHISPER MODE

Yes it is sort of - well its not as well - depends who you are booking through.

The not bit. The hotels charge £300 and then ship it onto an agency who then gives DJ's £150. So customers pay more than we charge when using the resident.

The odd bit is people who book us independly get the big rig for £200. Those who pay £300 and then get us through an agency (which we are doing less of), get the smaller system for more money to them. Odd situation.

Independent bookings wise we are around the middle mark at £200 and it means we don't lose that many jobs as a result. £200 is still a lot to fork out for most folks, so its a fairly balanced figure. If we need to start traveling further then diesel cost goes on top.

[DJ Jules]

I'm struggling with pricing this year - last year I had standard prices and consistently went out for the money I was asking (plus extras and add ons). This year the response I get to my standard prices is "I've already been quoted less than that", despite my prices already being very reasonable (and me being a hobby DJ really, meaning that profit/loss isn't my first priority).

In the interests of supporting pricing in the industry, I don't normally shift significantly on my price, but I have gone out a couple of times this year for less than £150.00, which in my opinion, is shocking.

I've heard of guys doing kids parties for < £60.00 though, and I'm not prepared to compete with them (which is why I've only done one private kids party so far this year - but a ton of school discos).

Julian

[Steve the DJ]

I'm struggling with pricing this year...

I am as well and I'll explain why later.


In the interests of supporting pricing in the industry, I don't normally shift significantly on my price, but I have gone out a couple of times this year for less than £150.00, which in my opinion, is shocking.

So what was the driving factor behind your decision to work for sub £150?


£200 is still a lot to fork out for most folks, so its a fairly balanced figure.

So is £300, but people are paying it... ;)

[Charlie Brown]

Disco's & DJ's should be a luxury addition to your Reception or Party. To have your own private jukebox, entertainer with a good light-show should be something people look forward to!

I'm guessing there was a time when people were excited about having a DJ. Good DJ's weren't very cheap as equipment was more expensive. It could be argued that H&S wasn't that important so PLI/PAT etc was more relaxed - saving DJ's cash.

Unfortunately, DJ's seem "part of the package" and a necessity to any party. There's nothing special or exciting about them any-more.

As you all know:- I'm still a student and doing pretty much everything legally. My prices have increased significantly over the past two years.

2007 I was charging £60 for NYE - now a children's party for 2 hours is double that + £10. I secured two private functions at the end of last week/this Monday at £265. I have quite a few Wedding's now at £299+ since the new site.

Why?

Marketing, perception and finding the right clients.

When I was charging £95 for a 5 hour private function - I was working in social men's clubs and the likes. I'd come and log onto the forum and notice that someone had been working at a lovely manor or stately home. I often wondered why they were getting all the good gigs and I wasn't.

I had a hard think about what I do/offer/expenses/how happy people are after my gigs and released I was worth a lot more than £95.

At the end of the day it's confidence. If you push, believe and market yourself well - you'll get the good well paid gigs.

Recession or no recession - there will always be "money people" out there who are getting married or throwing a bash for their 50th who are prepared to pay a lot of money for a decent Marquee/DJ/Caterers.

A lot of people are thriving off the recession!

Believe in yourself. Market yourself to the right clients. I've looked at loads of DJ's websites and they're terrible! Poor pictures, horrible graphics, bad spelling and grammar and just generally awful. There's one which cracked me up (making me laugh now) ..I'll pop it in the Supporters section.

HOWEVER, these sites/DJ's wouldn't convince me to spend £300+ with them. Sometimes they'll then moan they can only get £100 round their area at the best of times.

RUBBISH! BELIEVE IN YOURSELF.

I'd recommend Vectis Vibe (Martin's) web designing. It's affordable yet portrays a stunning image. I keep meaning to write a quick review on his services - I'll try and get it done tonight.

Don't ever back down on your pricing too - if you barter or they try and lower your price, then you don't want to do business with them. Believe in your pricing structure. If you knock £30 off it shows that you're weak and don't believe 100% in the service you are providing.

Together, as an industry we can raise the bar and perception of DJ's.

Unfortunately, it will take more than 50 members on a forum to achieve this.

[NKR]

So is £300, but people are paying it... ;)

Yep, but they trust the hotels to provide a £300 DJ and they just don't get that. Its all about how much they can increase their profits.
People pay the hotels better money as they believe the hotel will ensure they have worked hard to get the best entertainment around. How wrong that is in so many cases.

[Steve the DJ]

Disco's & DJ's should be a luxury addition to your Reception or Party. To have your own private jukebox, entertainer with a good light-show should be something people look forward to!

<snip>

Together, as an industry we can raise the bar and perception of DJ's.

Unfortunately, it will take more than 50 members on a forum to achieve this.

A noble post, you have been listening to your "other Dad" haven't you? :)

The thing is, and I guess what my initial post was driving at, is there are plenty of DJs who could do this, who run a very slick professional business, offer great service and are very good entertainers that could easily charge more, but they won't, regardless of what you or I may say.

I just want to get a better understanding of why.


Yep, but they trust the hotels to provide a £300 DJ and they just don't get that. Its all about how much they can increase their profits.

People pay the hotels better money as they believe the hotel will ensure they have worked hard to get the best entertainment around. How wrong that is in so many cases.

Many of the venues round here are exactly the same, in fact one of them has my ex disco partner as a resident DJ charged at £395 a night and he gets £175.

He must like that figure... :d

My point though is your area can already handle £300 as a fee and I think it is dangerous to assume that people pay it purely because they trust a venue. Most people probably pay it because they don't know what a DJ charges and it sounds reasonable, which could work in your favour.


Will I still go out at a reduced rate if I feel the circumstances warrent it -yes!

What circumstances would consider warrant it out of interest?


<snip>

I am forever up grading , maybe if I tried to get the best out of the older gear , I may make a profit . however this question is directly linked to the next.

<snip>

This is totally my own fault , in the old days (BF before forums ) I was a cheap dj , not £60 sid but not far off , working with a small client base , it has been difficult to increase prices ,Now I charge my local club £140 for an evenings entertainment , and due to the fact that I get 15-20 gigs a year there , I doubt if they would pay the full price , and for a venue 50 yards away , where the gear can be left until the morning , so I don't want to put this source of income in peril

<snip>

To be brutally honest , yes

Thanks for your honest feedback Daryll. :)

[ppentertainments]

I just want to get a better understanding of why.



I may be wrong, but my opinion is, DJ's won't charge because it is not the 'norm'.

Plumbers etc charge a reasonable fee because that is classed as the norm, however speak to the general public and a majority still class a disco as a cheap form of entertainment.

These prejudices are around and are part of life. I used to work as a barman. tell people that and their opinion of the wages would be 'around minimum wage'. You see job adverts, talk to bar staff etc and in general it is classed as a low paid job. I was a barman but earning one heck of a wage. - I believe similar opinions in general are thought of DJ's.

Because the public perception is thus, most DJ's just go along with 'the norm'.

What can we do to change it ?? No idea. I believe it is the public who need educated MORE than DJ's. If the publics perception was changed we could all charge decent fees.
The public perception is not going to change until DJ's change, DJ's won't change until the public perception changes.

(Just my opinion ;) )

[Excalibur]

oh go on Darren, threads about pricing are always the best :D

i think its a tough one sometimes

on the one had, you want a decent price, ie, what you think you are worth

but on the hand, you need a price that will get most of your dates filled and ultimately make you the most money.

...
Strewth, he's been on the dried frog pills!!! :eek: :eek:


I understand what you are saying but I have to admit I have never understood the logic behind it.

If you think you are worth say £400, but are happy to go out for £275 because it fills dates then the reality is you are only worth £275.

There is nothing wrong with that if it fills the diary at a figure that you are happy with, but you can't be worth £x if you are prepared to work for £y, because that makes you worth £y.
Fine words butter no parsnips. ;) ;) ;)

Yep, but they trust the hotels to provide a £300 DJ and they just don't get that. Its all about how much they can increase their profits.
People pay the hotels better money as they believe the hotel will ensure they have worked hard to get the best entertainment around. How wrong that is in so many cases.
I wouldn't trust a hotel to provide a £300 Disco if I were paying a grand. ;) :( :( :( :(


I may be wrong, but my opinion is, DJ's won't charge because it is not the 'norm'.

Plumbers etc charge a reasonable fee because that is classed as the norm, however speak to the general public and a majority still class a disco as a cheap form of entertainment.

These prejudices are around and are part of life. I used to work as a barman. tell people that and their opinion of the wages would be 'around minimum wage'. You see job adverts, talk to bar staff etc and in general it is classed as a low paid job. I was a barman but earning one heck of a wage. - I believe similar opinions in general are thought of DJ's.

Because the public perception is thus, most DJ's just go along with 'the norm'.

What can we do to change it ?? No idea. I believe it is the public who need educated MORE than DJ's. If the publics perception was changed we could all charge decent fees.
The public perception is not going to change until DJ's change, DJ's won't change until the public perception changes.

(Just my opinion ;) )

+1

[Charlie Brown]

you have been listening to your "other Dad" haven't you? :)


Yup. He's taught me a lot. :beer1: :approve:

I don't know why. :o However, I know people don't have the confidence to charge more or believe they can.

I don't see any other explanation for it. Why wouldn't someone want to better themselves, even if you are on a good salary?

It's probably not down to "bettering themselves," actually. It's what folk are used to. People don't like change - many have habit's and are stuck in their way. I bet most people haven't even given given your question a thought.

They're quite happy working for their local club/pub at £xxx amount and enjoy having a social with the regular punters. They don't see their disco as a business venture so wouldn't pursue it as one?

A business doesn't fall from the sky. You have to work at it, tweak a bit, work a bit more..until it starts making profit - (unless you're really lucky) ;)

People who do this as a hobby, don't have to worry about making a profit like yourself.

[jeff wood]

Not if your per-gig costs are £100 :)

£400 minus fixed costs of £100 = £300 minus tax/NI at, say, 25% (£75) = £225 clear

£600 minus fixed costs of £200 = £400 minus tax/NI at, say, 25% (£100) = £300 clear


200% of the work for 125% of the money? Right...


but you dont have "per gig costs" , apart from fuel

because all your expensense apply no matter how few or how many gigs you do,,

when you pay for van insurance, its per year, not per gig

when you buy music, you dont buy it per gig,,,


so i dont quite get your argument....

[StarZSoundS]

Thanks for your honest feedback Daryll. :)


I think you'll find there are a lot more on this site with similair businesses to Daryl who have an aversion to "owning up" to it for fear of ridicule.

Everything on this Forum is about raising the bar and adhering to best practise....whilst I applaud this it can get on your nerves a bit after a while.I may not be raising the bar....but i'm certainly not lowering it.

I am fully legit and not pinching work of the big price boys.

On the Kids Parties side of things I have created my own market....probably nicking the people from being ripped off at MacDonalds and bringing them back to our environment.....bodes well for the future!!

I wish we could all get along without the constant pressure to raise the bar....at 52 (like Daryll) i'm pretty happy with where it is.

Have you got a heading towards the Sin-Bin Smilie please!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Excalibur]

but you dont have "per gig costs" , apart from fuel

because all your expensense apply no matter how few or how many gigs you do,,

when you pay for van insurance, its per year, not per gig

when you buy music, you dont buy it per gig,,,


so i dont quite get your argument....

Oh :Censored:er. :( :( :( :( :( Now I'm agreeing with Jeff. :( :( :( :( :(

[ppentertainments]

but you dont have "per gig costs" , apart from fuel

because all your expensense apply no matter how few or how many gigs you do,,

when you pay for van insurance, its per year, not per gig

when you buy music, you dont buy it per gig,,,


so i dont quite get your argument....
Can of worms :eek: :eek:

[NKR]

People who do this as a hobby, don't have to worry about making a profit like yourself.

We have to make sure we are not making a loss as that is not very clever at all. If we didn't make anything out of it we wouldn't do it.

I haven't got the time to push the marketing too much as busy doing the day job, so we stay at a level for now.
Would I change that - no couldn't make enough even on my own to make it full time, so I am content to drift along moving it forward a bit every year.

How do the full time guys actually feel about this as I am not really a threat as we do what we do without chasing the same places you guys market. We don't do wedding fayres, or UKbride, etc, etc.

[jeff wood]

Can of worms :eek: :eek:

why is it ?

you pay your expenses per year mostly, not per gig

how is that complicated ?

[jeff wood]

Oh :Censored:er. :( :( :( :( :( Now I'm agreeing with Jeff. :( :( :( :( :(



dont worry, everyone secretly knows im always right, they just dont like to admit it in public :D :D :D

[jeff wood]

I understand what you are saying but I have to admit I have never understood the logic behind it.

If you think you are worth say £400, but are happy to go out for £275 because it fills dates then the reality is you are only worth £275.

There is nothing wrong with that if it fills the diary at a figure that you are happy with, but you can't be worth £x if you are prepared to work for £y, because that makes you worth £y.

Steve, i did explain that i have two levels, theres quite a difference in the amount of work involved for my standard and premium options,,

[ppentertainments]

why is it ?

you pay your expenses per year mostly, not per gig

how is that complicated ?
I agree, but remember getting told off a year or so ago when I mentioned this :D

[Excalibur]

why is it ?

you pay your expenses per year mostly, not per gig

how is that complicated ?
It is here mate. ;) It appears to cost some folk more to do a gig for £300 than watch Saturday Night TV!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[surround sounds]

to be honest a have been djin 15 years and i have been to places where djs been paid £300 plus and they are rubbish,then seen other djs who charge £150 and been amazing. all because you pay a lot of money for a dj does not mean they are any better than a cheap one.all djs will say i am great, you never hear a dj say i am rubbish,so price sometimes mean nothing

[jeff wood]

yeah agree totally,,

how much a dj earns doesnt always tell how good he (or she ) is,

a lot of it is how good at marketting that dj is :)

being a mobile dj,,youve got to be good to get repeat work, but youve also got to be good at selling yourself in order to get work in the first place.

some people on here i think are extremely good at marketting and i am envious of them,,like Ben for example..

but i'm slowly learning ...

[surround sounds]

yes jeff i agree.to be honest £400 for a dj to do a party for me..i would not pay it cause its not saying the dj is any good althou the dj thinks he is ace..i am not saying i would not pay £400 for a disco but only if i know he is good

[Shaun]

I often wonder just how some converse with their clients without basic grammar skills.

For the benefit of a few...

[surround sounds]

sorry watching tv, talkin to mate and typing at the same time..Not good

[Excalibur]

Shaun. :flog: :( :( :( :( :(

But keep at it mate. :thumbs_up:

[jeff wood]

yes jeff i agree.to be honest £400 for a dj to do a party for me..i would not pay it cause its not saying the dj is any good althou the dj thinks he is ace..i am not saying i would not pay £400 for a disco but only if i know he is good

or maybe if he has the skill to convince you that he's good..

thats where the marketting and selling (****this word has been removed as I really need to read the forum rules regarding expletives. *****) skills come in it :)

[Twinspin]

Marketing is one thing im rubbish at

pricing now is between £250.00 / £350.00. I did at one point go out for a bit less than £250.00 but i really cant be bothered to go out for less money. Id sooner let them phone another dj if they want someone cheaper.

some of the weddings ive booked in lately have been £325.00 and there are djs in Hull that will do it for less than 1/3 of the price as i experienced yesterday.

[Corabar Steve]

There's an awful lot of broken shift keys about:sj:

[[email protected]]

but you dont have "per gig costs" , apart from fuel

because all your expensense apply no matter how few or how many gigs you do,,

when you pay for van insurance, its per year, not per gig

when you buy music, you dont buy it per gig,,,


so i dont quite get your argument....

What Martin means is that if you divide the total amount of all your expenses that you have paid out over the course of the year & divide it by the number of gigs you do.

You'll then come up with a 'costs per booking' figure (which takes into consideration all your one off yearly costs and an average of your variable costs for each booking.

Which will then enable you to make sure that you are charging a fee which:-

A: covers your expenses.
B: gives you the desired amount of profit that you would like / need to make off each booking. :)

[Vectis]

What Martin means is that if you divide the total amount of all your expenses that you have paid out over the course of the year & divide it by the number of gigs you do.

You'll then come up with a 'costs per booking' figure (which takes into consideration all your one off yearly costs and an average of your variable costs for each booking.

Which will then enable you to make sure that you are charging a fee which:-

A: covers your expenses.
B: gives you the desired amount of profit that you would like / need to make off each booking. :)

:agree:

My point precisely.

I don't understand how anyone can run a business without having a basic handle on costs. You absolutely have to have a way of distributing your one-off and monthly/quarterly/annual costs across all gigs - either the blanket £x per gig method that I use, or the £x per wedding, £y per pub gig, £z per kids party method where for example x=average costs * 1.5, y=average costs and z=average costs * 0.5 so as to allow flexible pricing.

I have virtually nil marketing costs, virtually nil fuel costs (the furthest possible venue from my house is 18 miles and in general they're about 6 or 7 on average) yet over the course of a year my costs average out at approx. £100-105 per gig.

If you don't do this level of forward-planning, then you're in for a nasty shock when you come to do the books at year end.

Oh, hang on... :sofa: :zip:

[Danno13]

So dividing costs per week/month isn't a viable method then?

If you already have two £300 weddings and your costs per week are say £200, then you're in profit already and surely anything else (minus fuel, additional music purchases & post-gig kebab) is a bonus?? I appreciate our work is quite seasonal, but then you can put this extra income towards the quiet months. Even using your per-gig method, each extra gig is another to share costs between.

By the way I'm kind of playing devils advocate here, as I never take on lower paid work from my normal prices under my own banner, as I'm in this for the long run and strongly beleive it could damage the brand, reputation etc. but sometimes if I'm offered agency/sub-contract work....

[Vectis]

Yep, guess you could do it week-by-week.

I like to have a longer-term view though. Year-by-year works better for me as I don't tend to make large investments on a weekly basis. I'd hate to get a "£200 per week" figure settled in my head then spend a couple of grand on something shiny :)

My point was that understanding the total cost of running the operation is of paramount importance when price-setting and deciding whether or not to discount.

[mikeee]

The one thing missing from all this, is the marketing techinque used by all businesses, whether Carphone warehouse or tesco or whoever.... Bullsh*t baffles Brains...how do you think companies make there money....Geeeez

[rob1963]

I don't think I've ever put anyone in the Sin Bin!


But you once took me out of it, for which I thank you!

:D


The thing is, and I guess what my initial post was driving at, is there are plenty of DJs who could do this, who run a very slick professional business, offer great service and are very good entertainers that could easily charge more, but they won't, regardless of what you or I may say.

I just want to get a better understanding of why.


I could easily charge more than I do, but these are the reasons why I dont:

1) One of my objectives has always been to provide excellent value for money.

2) If I DID charge more, it would be harder to justify my charges if challenged.

3) I don't NEED to charge more, as my financial situation is quite good & my expenses are very low.

[Charlie Brown]

The one thing missing from all this, is the marketing techinque used by all businesses, whether Carphone warehouse or tesco or whoever.... Bullsh*t baffles Brains...how do you think companies make there money....Geeeez

You couldn't be more correct! :beer1:

[jeff wood]

:agree:

My point precisely.

I don't understand how anyone can run a business without having a basic handle on costs. You absolutely have to have a way of distributing your one-off and monthly/quarterly/annual costs across all gigs - either the blanket £x per gig method that I use, or the £x per wedding, £y per pub gig, £z per kids party method where for example x=average costs * 1.5, y=average costs and z=average costs * 0.5 so as to allow flexible pricing.

I have virtually nil marketing costs, virtually nil fuel costs (the furthest possible venue from my house is 18 miles and in general they're about 6 or 7 on average) yet over the course of a year my costs average out at approx. £100-105 per gig.

If you don't do this level of forward-planning, then you're in for a nasty shock when you come to do the books at year end.

Oh, hang on... :sofa: :zip:



but how do you know how many gigs a year you'll be doing ???

and whats wrong with just working out your weekly costs, at least you know what that figure will be,

or, just aim to earn the most money you can, surely thats gotta work,,

[NKR]

but how do you know how many gigs a year you'll be doing ???

and whats wrong with just working out your weekly costs, at least you know what that figure will be,

or, just aim to earn the most money you can, surely thats gotta work,,

Works for me Jeff. I just ensure that the account never goes overdrawn and that way we are not making a loss. Any investment is only made when I know I have sufficient jobs to cover it in the next couple of months and still take some money.
Some investment is also balanced by disposal of existing assets with the required revenue balancing payment taken into account in the overall transaction. Its not rocket science, it's discos.
By ensuring we have sufficient funds for investment I don't need to complicate it all with interest and the bits I loan the company as bridging finance are interest free.

[rob1963]

but how do you know how many gigs a year you'll be doing ???

You must have at least a rough idea.

The number I do doesn't change THAT much from one year to the next.


and whats wrong with just working out your weekly costs, at least you know what that figure will be

Nothing wrong with doing it that way at all.

Then if you take your average weekly expenses from your gross income, you're left with your profit for that week.

Simples!


or, just aim to earn the most money you can, surely thats gotta work,,

Yes, but it's a bit vague, though!

[StarZSoundS]

The number I do doesn't change THAT much from one year to the next.






Yep just leap years I think....then he does 365 not 364:sj: :sj: :sj: :sj: :sj:



If you believe him!!:eek: :eek:

[rob1963]

Yep just leap years I think....then he does 365 not 364:sj: :sj: :sj: :sj: :sj:

If you believe him!!:eek: :eek:

If only!

:cry:

[DJ Jules]

So what was the driving factor behind your decision to work for sub £150?

On one occasion, location, location, location - it was at my local community centre which I'm trying to get into more heavily (with it being only 1 mile up the road). On the other occasion it was a last minute request for a charity and I was feeling generous - it's also led to another four gigs this year, though unfortunately at a lower rate than I usually would charge (but still > £150) because of the initial discount I gave (yeah I know, you warned me...)

Trading conditions in Bristol are definitely harder around here this year, I've got more dry hires for PA kit for weddings this year, than I have weddings!

Julian

[Shaun]

Shaun. :flog: :( :( :( :( :(

But keep at it mate. :thumbs_up:
I can but try. :)




-------------------------

As certain members are choosing to completely ignore me, I'll say it once more. PLEASE ATTEMPT TO USE THE CORRECT GRAMMAR IN YOUR POSTS. How difficult can it be? :confused:

A quick reminder of the forum rules you agreed to during sign up....


23. .....

The MDD is a professional forum for professionals in our industry, as such, please try to communicate on the forum using the correct grammar and punctuation. We ask that you make a concise effort to make your posts as easy to read as possible. Please use a spell checker if necessary.

and this one....


29. Instructions by the Moderators and Administrators must be followed.

It's a tad tedius going over and over the same thing. So failure to at least attempt to post correctly or to follow instruction could lead to the following...


The owners, administrators and moderators of the Mobile Disco Directory Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread or post for any reason

...and finally that ever so helpful picture again. :)

[Vectis]

but how do you know how many gigs a year you'll be doing ???

Well it's going to be somewhere between 0 and 365 per rig, or if you throw in afternoon parties too it could theoretically double (but I bet it doesn't).

For the last 3 calendar years I've averaged 107. This calendar year I've deliberately limited myself to 50 to focus on other parts of the business.

Do you have a trading history? Business plan? If so, arriving at a realistic estimate should be a doddle.

[womble]

my costs average out at approx. £100-105 per gig.


This calendar year I've deliberately limited myself to 50

So your annual costs for a 50 gig a year business are >£5k? That seems quite high to me, or am I missing something?

[ppentertainments]

So your annual costs for a 50 gig a year business are >£5k? That seems quite high to me, or am I missing something?
Another can of worms lol

[Excalibur]

So your annual costs for a 50 gig a year business are >£5k? That seems quite high to me, or am I missing something?

Yeah. Steep travel expenses. ;)

[NKR]

So your annual costs for a 50 gig a year business are >£5k? That seems quite high to me, or am I missing something?

What your accounts include as expense should drag it up. I currently have 3 depreciation pools on the go and capital write offs annually (the investment you are able to write off at 100%).

Then Home office costs, transport costs, mobile phones, servicing of trailer, shirts, shoes,. suits, music, cables and other guff I buy throughout the year, stamps, blah blah blah. It all adds up.

£5k is less than ours.

[Excalibur]

What your accounts include as expense should drag it up. I currently have 3 depreciation pools on the go and capital write offs annually (the investment you are able to write off at 100%).

Then Home office costs, transport costs, mobile phones, servicing of trailer, shirts, shoes,. suits, music, cables and other guff I buy throughout the year, stamps, blah blah blah. It all adds up.

£5k is less than ours.

Good heavens yes. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) Don't let anything get away. Receipts for everything.;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :D :D :D :D :D

[Vectis]

So your annual costs for a 50 gig a year business are >£5k? That seems quite high to me, or am I missing something?

I think you're probably missing something :p

Disco only...

My annual costs for the last 3 years, for a 100-ish gig business, have been around £10-11k.

This year having scaled back the business and with asset disposals, reduced promotional expenditure and so on I'm anticipating the total to be somewhere in the £3.5 - 4k area based on 50 gigs.

But then my average take is hovering close to £450 per gig this year.

[womble]

blimey...

Still sounds steep to me. I daren't open the box of receipts and start adding things up now.

[Excalibur]

blimey...

Still sounds steep to me. I daren't open the box of receipts and start adding things up now.

Do bear in mind lads, as some of us have been alluding to, that once you are running a taxable business, many things which you would regard as day to day expenses, suddenly become a perfectly acceptable and legal way of reducing your tax bill. ;) Keep every single receipt, like I said.

[rob1963]

blimey...

Still sounds steep to me. I daren't open the box of receipts and start adding things up now.

According to a forum survey 18 months ago, about 60% of people have expenses of more than £100 a gig, myself included.

See the poll & thread here:

http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15309&highlight=poll

[Excalibur]

According to a forum survey 18 months ago, about 60% of people have expenses of more than £100 a gig, myself included.

See the poll & thread here:

http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15309&highlight=poll

Wow!! Good job you didn't buy any gear, or it would have been over £150 per gig. ;)

[rob1963]

Wow!! Good job you didn't buy any gear, or it would have been over £150 per gig. ;)

Buy gear?

What does that mean?

:confused:

[womble]

Do bear in mind lads, as some of us have been alluding to, that once you are running a taxable business, many things which you would regard as day to day expenses, suddenly become a perfectly acceptable and legal way of reducing your tax bill. ;) Keep every single receipt, like I said.

Riiiight, so the £100 per gig thing is the tax-man figure.

I'm confident that the box of receipts in the corner of the room tot up to quite a tidy sum, but if I was to disregard those receipts would have existed whether I was DJing or not then the difference is how much it is ACTUALLY costing me to do this job. Correct?

If that figure came anywhere near to £100 a night then I'd be going all Yorkshire on the purse strings. ;)

[Vectis]

Riiiight, so the £100 per gig thing is the tax-man figure.

I'm confident that the box of receipts in the corner of the room tot up to quite a tidy sum, but if I was to disregard those receipts would have existed whether I was DJing or not then the difference is how much it is ACTUALLY costing me to do this job. Correct?

If that figure came anywhere near to £100 a night then I'd be going all Yorkshire on the purse strings. ;)

So are you suggesting (or am I putting words in your mouth) that the information you declare to HMRC is in some way inaccurate? :eek:

[StarZSoundS]

Riiiight, so the £100 per gig thing is the tax-man figure.

I'm confident that the box of receipts in the corner of the room tot up to quite a tidy sum, but if I was to disregard those receipts would have existed whether I was DJing or not then the difference is how much it is ACTUALLY costing me to do this job. Correct?

If that figure came anywhere near to £100 a night then I'd be going all Yorkshire on the purse strings. ;)

The Poll shows 3 people with overheads of £226 per gig.Unless that is the Multi-Ops who are paying people to run thier show and including that as an overhead....I can't fathom it!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

[rob1963]

The Poll shows 3 people with overheads of £226 per gig.Unless that is the Multi-Ops who are paying people to run thier show and including that as an overhead....I can't fathom it!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

I can't fathom it either.

Even if they were charging a decent amount like £500 a gig, that means nearly half their income is swallowed up by expenses, which sounds like rather a lot to me.

:confused:

[Excalibur]

So are you suggesting (or am I putting words in your mouth) that the information you declare to HMRC is in some way inaccurate? :eek:
No Martin, cos it was I who set this particular Hare running. What some of us are trying to say is that there are totally and utterly fair costs allowable against taxable income, which would still be incurred if you never did another Disco again. Thus while they are legitimately included in the costs column, you'd still have to put sixpence in the electric meter, and another lunp of coal on the fire., especially if you were sat watching Britain's got a nerve.

And we won't even do the quote about Terminological Inexactitudes, Wholesale economies of Verite, and Large amounts of Information. ;)


I can't fathom it either.

Even if they were charging a decent amount like £500 a gig, that means nearly half their income is swallowed up by expenses, which sounds like rather a lot to me.

:confused:
See above, I reckon.

[jeff wood]

What i'm still not quite understanding,,,

Is say you work out your expenses to be £100 a gig based on how many gigs you expect to do in that year.

So what happens then if you get offered a last minute gig, lets say for £250,

Now do you say to yourself,,no I'm not doing that, because its only really £150 i'm getting..

Surely, if its an unexpected gig, and your expenses have been covered by your other gigs that week, then it must be a bonus ???

You'de be £250 (- any fuel and tax/ni ) up, you wouldnt be £150 up...

So I cant really see the advantage of working out what your per gig expenses are,,

Well, saying that, must be handy to know when working out prices to charge of course.

[ppentertainments]

If that figure came anywhere near to £100 a night then I'd be going all Yorkshire on the purse strings. ;)
And if you LIVED in Yorkshire you would be PAYING THE CLIENT £10 for every gig :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Excalibur]

And if you LIVED in Yorkshire you would be PAYING THE CLIENT £10 for every gig :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Amen Brother. :D

[Leicester Ben]

Jeff if it makes you feel any better I have no idea what my costs per disco are, as long as the company is making a healthy profit I'm happy!

[womble]

So are you suggesting (or am I putting words in your mouth) that the information you declare to HMRC is in some way inaccurate? :eek:

I think you're putting words in my mouth.

[womble]

Martin,

Do you apply the same logic to all your businesses? ie. do you have a "cost per website" based on designing X number of sites per year? If so can you let me know when you've reached your annual quota and therefore are ready to do a cheap one cause I really like Charlie's new site. :D :D :D

[STEVE HANLEY]

And if you LIVED in Yorkshire you would be PAYING THE CLIENT £10 for every gig :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


No Martin, cos it was I who set this particular Hare running. What some of us are trying to say is that there are totally and utterly fair costs allowable against taxable income, which would still be incurred if you never did another Disco again. Thus while they are legitimately included in the costs column, you'd still have to put sixpence in the electric meter, and another lunp of coal on the fire., especially if you were sat watching Britain's got a nerve.

And we won't even do the quote about Terminological Inexactitudes, Wholesale economies of Verite, and Large amounts of Information. ;)


See above, I reckon.

Well I have to say you two never fail to crack me up:Laugh: :Laugh:

[ppentertainments]

Martin,

Do you apply the same logic to all your businesses? ie. do you have a "cost per website" based on designing X number of sites per year? If so can you let me know when you've reached your annual quota and therefore are ready to do a cheap one cause I really like Charlie's new site. :D :D :D

Martin - someone swearing at you again :D :D :D

[addoaddo]

Any good business will run with two types of costs, fix and variable. Fixed cost cover thinks like rent, insurance, deprication, music, etc which should be spread over the year. Typically is could be £50 £100 per week.
In addition to these cost are the variable cost assicated with each job, which typically would include fuel, direct cost and possibly equipment deprication.

How many people put asside say £50 per gig to pay for future relacement equipment.

Coming back to the original post. One of the main difference between a full time DJ and a part time one is the number of events that they do per week. My friend who is a full time DJ regulary does 3 events per week where as a differnt field who is part time only does one gig per week. Obviously if they both go out for the same amount the professional DJ takes home more money as his fixed cost are spread over more events.

[mikeee]

Bah! Idiots! this is the entertainment industry, get as much as you can :D