Disco & House one and the Same???

[Have a disco]

Ok moved the thread here as this will continue in many ways heres a brief run down of them both but are they now one and the same but both with genres entwinned

Disco "spinoffs": rap and "house" music

Disco was largely succeeded for younger listeners by rap, which had started, by rapping over disco tracks. The first commercially popular rap hits were "Rapper's Delight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapper%27s_Delight)" (which borrowed the bass line from Chic's "Good Times") and Kurtis Blow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurtis_Blow)'s "The Breaks". The two styles existed side by side for a few years, with rap sometimes being used in disco songs such as Blondie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondie_%28band%29)'s "Rapture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture_%28song%29)",Teena Marie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teena_Marie)'s "Square Biz", and Indeep's "Last Night A DJ Saved My Life". The two styles together also sparked off "House Music" with such legendary innovators such as Larry Levan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Levan) in New York, and Frankie Knuckles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Knuckles) in Chicago in the early 1980's. Legendary clubs associated with the birth of house included New York's 'Paradise Garage' and Chicago's "Warehouse" and "The Music Box". Mixes incorporated here included various disco loops overlapped with a strong bassbeat, usually computer driven, and with longer segments intended for mixing. Afrika Bambataa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Bambataa) released the 1982 single "Planet Rock", which drew several elements from Kraftwerk's "Trans-Europe Express" and the previous year's "Numbers". Electronic sounds in rap were eventually discarded in favor of a more "raw" hip-hop sound in songs such as "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandmaster_Flash_%26_the_Furious_Five). However, the "Planet Rock" sound also spawned a non-"hip-hop" electronic dance trend, with such follow-ups as Planet Patrol's "Play At Your Own Risk", the same year, followed by "One More Shot" by C-Bank; and the following year, its popularity skyrocketed with Shannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_%28singer%29)'s "Let The Music Play" Freeze's "I.O.U.", Gwen Guthrie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Guthrie)'s "Ain't Nothin' Goin' On But The Rent", Chaka Khan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaka_Khan)'s "I Feel For You", and Midnight Star's "Freakazoid". Electronic Dance music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_dance_music) or House Music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Music) (later called "techno") had now emerged as its own genre, and this became the new "disco", even though it was not addressed as such.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Disco&action=edit&section=15)]


"Death" and a "Retro" revival

By the year 1983, disco was said to be pretty much "dead". It did not really have a distinctive "death", but simply blended back into other popular styles, while spawning some new styles. It was the synthesizer, and resulting change in the sounds, that basically ended disco as it was known in the pre-electronic 70's, more so than the reaction from the competing rock genre. The danceable rhythms would live on in pop/rock, rap, techno/house music and R&B.

However in the 1990s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s), a revival of the original disco style began and is exemplified by such songs as "Lemon" (1993) by U2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2), "Spend Some Time" (1994) by Brand New Heavies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_New_Heavies), the album "Tales Of Acid Ice Cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_Of_Acid_Ice_Cream)" by Awaken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awaken) (1996), "Cosmic Girl" (1996) by Jamiroquai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamiroquai), "Who Do You Think You Are" and "Never Give Up on the Good Times" (1997) by The Spice Girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spice_Girls) (1997) and "Strong Enough" (1998) by Cher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cher_%28entertainer%29), who had also recorded disco songs in the 70s.

During the first half of the 2000s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s), there were releases by a number of artists including "Spinning Around" and "Love at First Sight" by Kylie Minogue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylie_Minogue) (2001), "I Don't Understand It" by Ultra Nate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_Nate) (2001), "Crying at the Discoteque" by Alcazar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcazar_%28band%29) (2001), "Love Foolosophy" by Jamiroquai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamiroquai) (2001), "Party In Lyceum's Toilets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_In_Lyceum%27s_Toilets)" by Awaken (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awaken) (2001), "Murder on the Dancefloor" by Sophie Ellis-Bextor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Ellis-Bextor) (2001), and "Love Invincible" by Michael Franti and Spearhead (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michael_Franti_and_Spearhead&action=edit) (2003) that channeled classic disco music.

In 2004 former Three Degrees lead singer Sheila Ferguson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Ferguson) hired Burning Vision Entertainment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Vision_Entertainment) to create the ultimate disco music video to accompany the release of 'A New Kind Of Medicine' (http://www.burningvision.digitalresolve.co.uk/sheila_f.html)with mesmerising effect.

Most recently, Madonna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_%28entertainer%29) has used disco themes in her latest album, Confessions on a Dance Floor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_on_a_Dancefloor) (2005). Her single "Hung Up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hung_Up)", notably samples ABBA's "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! (A Man After Midnight)".

[Corabar Steve]

OK, you're right & the rest of us are all wrong. Happy now? :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth: :teeth:

[Have a disco]

No just think the subject is worth debating ie hip hop & R n B are put in the same stable of Urban??

Feel free not to partake if you feel this way. Im trying to form a family tree but there are so many close links and sub genres in both its hard to seperate the 2 as one genre

[Candybeatdiscos]

Hung up - even though it samples abba's gimmie gimmie gimmie is not a disco track, its a dance track, same as erasure's version of gimmie gimmie gimmie is not a disco track but indeed a hi-nrg 80s synth track....sorry to disagree lol

[soundtracker]

and we can all post a thousand other songs that don't fit comfortably into any specific genre, and I'm sure we can all argue until we're blue in the face about what constitutes, dance, happy house, ska, reggae etc and no-one will be right or wrong because its all a matter of opinion!

[CRAZY K]

So--- as a humble Barn Dance Caller and Country DJ who was a D.J. in the good ole mid 70s when Disco was King--educate me and tell me whats the difference between Dance tracks and Disco tracks?

May seem a stupid question but I thought Disco tracks were for Dancing ( in the Disco)
:teeth:

CRAZY K

[soundtracker]

So--- as a humble Barn Dance Caller and Country DJ who was a D.J. in the good ole mid 70s when Disco was King--educate me and tell me whats the difference between Dance tracks and Disco tracks?

May seem a stupid question but I thought Disco tracks were for Dancing ( in the Disco)
:teeth:

CRAZY K
Ah but are you a country DJ because you play Country, or because that's where you live? :teeth: :teeth:

[CRAZY K]

BOTH :teeth: :teeth: :teeth:

Was there an answer to my question yet :sad:

CRAZY K

[Corabar Steve]

No just think the subject is worth debating ie hip hop & R n B are put in the same stable of Urban??

Why not? For example, Rock covers everything from the "Classic" Heavy Rock of the likes of Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Free etc to Indie (which itself covers many sub genres), Heavy Metal (which itself also splits into various sub genres such as Speed Metal, Thrash, Stoner, Black Metal, Death Metal, etc) , Punk could come under the "Rock" banner too, even Coldplay are classed as "Rock"

BTW one that I heard on the radio today got me wondering.....Paul Hardcastle - 19..... House?

[Have a disco]

So really the genre Name is unknown for groups like house and disco and it has no specific name bar the posibility of Dance, but then that could encompass Urban or Rock as well. Surely there has to be a name that covers disco and house together as they are like a train track forever running alongside each other, Pop seems the wrong word as that covers a totally different thing

Prehaps Disco is the wrong name for disco!!! hence my thinking that it really has too many links to being early house. and yes disco did use to be played by bands

ie earth wind and fire or kool and the gang.

Ive seen them live, but technology has overtaken the live disco band in general, and its mainly 1 guy doing all the work at his mixing desk. Prehaps like R & B its name has changed for good wether we like it or not.???

[CRAZY K]

Paul Hardcastle NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN -19!

Mid 80s disco is what I thought it was!

I know nothing of these things but my son has a garage full of Vinyl House music which he claims has up to 10 different styles--????

Ill get my coat and leave this conversation to the experts :teeth:

CRAZY K

[Corabar Steve]

So really the genre Name is unknown for groups like house and disco and it has no specific name bar the posibility of Dance, but then that could encompass Urban or Rock as well. Surely there has to be a name that covers disco and house together as they are like a train track forever running alongside each other, Pop seems the wrong word as that covers a totally different thing

Prehaps Disco is the wrong name for disco!!! hence my thinking that it really has too many links to being early house. and yes disco did use to be played by bands

ie earth wind and fire or kool and the gang.

Ive seen them live, but technology has overtaken the live disco band in general, and its mainly 1 guy doing all the work at his mixing desk. Prehaps like R & B its name has changed for good wether we like it or not.???Did anyone else understand this?

Prehaps like R & B its name has changed for good wether we like it or not.???As in permanently or for the better? :teeth: I would say the former, bring back old school R'n'B

[Have a disco]

Paul Hardcastle NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN -19!

Mid 80s disco is what I thought it was!

I know nothing of these things but my son has a garage full of Vinyl House music which he claims has up to 10 different styles--????

Ill get my coat and leave this conversation to the experts :teeth:

CRAZY K

Exactly what Im on about disco & house both the same thing? from what I have figured out there are about 20 diferent styles of house including disco

Its very confusing but I will get the family tree of dance music sorted eventually??

[Corabar Steve]

BUT................... if Disco came first, then isn't House a form of Disco?

[Have a disco]

BUT................... if Disco came first, then isn't House a form of Disco?

Absolutely true too, but it broke away and then they wound round each other spouting so many sub genres its now impossible to seperate the 2

[Corabar Entertainment]

You can't have a family tree where the 'root' is newer than the branch! Disco was there first, and the term 'house' came later, when people started 'playing' with disco music.

Therefore, on the family tree, 'House' comes from 'Disco'.... not the other way around, surely?

[Have a disco]

House actually started buy itself. kraftwerk and other likewise groups and were mainly people at mixing desks messing about. Some people were messing about a lot earlier though Jean Michel Jarre for instance an early electronic music producer. I remember the electronic pop hit from Hot Butter - Popcorn which could be classed as the first ever house track

where as like mentioned earlier, disco was more group band related and then merged with house later ie Donna summer - I feel love but the mainstream house sound is very simular to disco always has been ie shalamar, chic all very funky salsa based like disco sounds

[Corabar Steve]

Disco "spinoffs": rap and "house" music
I rest my case

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

House actually started buy itself

And how did you come to that conclusion then?

[Have a disco]

With the introduction of things like the stylophone (no rolf harris jokes please) electronic music moved into its own genre 'house' rather than just being an instrument it became a tool for people to change things in many ways rather than the basic musical chords that a disco band did.

obviously disco used these tools as well but house has been around long than we'd all like to admit it

[Corabar Entertainment]

So now you are saying that all electronic music is house, including something played on a stylophone??????????????????? :eek: :confused:

[Corabar Steve]

With the introduction of things like the stylophone (no rolf harris jokes please) electronic music moved into its own genre 'house' rather than just being an instrument it became a tool for people to change things in many ways rather than the basic musical chords that a disco band did.

obviously disco used these tools as well but house has been around long than we'd all like to admit it
So by your reckoning Gary Numan's entire back catalogue is House & for that matter Space Oddity is House too?

[Corabar Steve]

Oh & can I point out that Kraftwerk issued their first album in 1970, that would be pre Disco as well

[Thames Valley Discos]

Gary Numan, now were talking, he is now classed as Industrial.Got loads of his early stuff, Replicas... What an album, will pop that on in the car later i feel

[Have a disco]

Oh & can I point out that Kraftwerk issued their first album in 1970, that would be pre Disco as well

How about Pre techno house LOL

Yes another egg before the chicken situation?

what came first house or disco? LOL

And Gary Numan what a guy King of Industrial House LOL

[Corabar Entertainment]

what came first house or disco? LOLHouse, of course.......So long as you're talking about the kind you live in! :teeth: :teeth:

[Have a disco]

Not close enuff LOL You not out working tonight

[BeerFunk]

I don't understand where the confusion is...?? :confused:

"House music, it's a body thing, it's a mind thing, it's a spiritual thing"

House music is identified through it's electronically produced 4/4 beat, and percussion.
Kool & The Gang, Earth Wind & Fire and all the other disco/funk artists mentioned have never released a house track.

As with any genre, there are tracks which are hard to place - such as the afore-mentioned Donna Summer - I Feel Love, and Safri Duo - Played Alive (The Bongo Song) (a classic track which broke down the genre divides of house/trance/club etc)

On the whole though, it's fairly straight forward! ;)

[Thames Valley Discos]

music means different things to different people at the end of the day. What i class as house,others class as funky/uplifting/disco/trance etc .Were the sex pistols punk,was blondie punk,what was Adam Ant,Ultravox. we will all have different ideas on the style of music, we all have different interpritations. Who really cares, if i want house i listen to what i class as house.

[Have a disco]

but Industry has this horrible habit of continually bunging things in pidgeon holes only to be proven wrong time and again.

ie Bodyrockers = rock house

ie Donna Summer = disco house

ie Steve 'Silk' Hurley = Jack house

ie Gary Numan??? = Industrial house

ie ABBA = Disco?????

It goes on and on

[BeerFunk]

That's true, that's why I said certain songs are hard to place. It gets even more confusing when an artist gets labelled, like Donna Summer - 'Disco', when obviously she has recorded various styles/genres

[Corabar Steve]

Shack at the end of my mates garden = Summer House :teeth:

[Corabar Steve]

I don't understand where the confusion is...?? :confused:

"House music, it's a body thing, it's a mind thing, it's a spiritual thing"

House music is identified through it's electronically produced 4/4 beat, and percussion.
Kool & The Gang, Earth Wind & Fire and all the other disco/funk artists mentioned have never released a house track.

As with any genre, there are tracks which are hard to place - such as the afore-mentioned Donna Summer - I Feel Love, and Safri Duo - Played Alive (The Bongo Song) (a classic track which broke down the genre divides of house/trance/club etc)

On the whole though, it's fairly straight forward! ;) :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: You've been talking to Badger too much :teeth:

[BeerFunk]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: You've been talking to Badger too much :teeth:

Lol, how's that? You didn't understand what I had written?

[Corabar Steve]

I'm tired, it'll probably make more sense to me in the morning :teeth:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm tired, it'll probably make more sense to me in the morning :teeth:

Maybe not :teeth:

[Corabar Steve]

No, you're right Daz. I'll try again later :teeth:

[soundtracker]

and so it goes, around in ever decreasing circles. Perhaps what we need is a term which is all encompassing, something in which all the sub-genres sit comfortably and in which all songs and artists are welcomed with open arms. Hows about we call it ................


























MUSIC

[Corabar Steve]

I don't understand where the confusion is...?? :confused:

"House music, it's a body thing, it's a mind thing, it's a spiritual thing"

House music is identified through it's electronically produced 4/4 beat, and percussion.
Kool & The Gang, Earth Wind & Fire and all the other disco/funk artists mentioned have never released a house track.

As with any genre, there are tracks which are hard to place - such as the afore-mentioned Donna Summer - I Feel Love, and Safri Duo - Played Alive (The Bongo Song) (a classic track which broke down the genre divides of house/trance/club etc)

On the whole though, it's fairly straight forward! ;)
Yep, it was me. Makes perfect sense now.

[Corabar Steve]

:teeth:

[Have a disco]

I don't understand where the confusion is...?? :confused:

"House music, it's a body thing, it's a mind thing, it's a spiritual thing"

House music is identified through it's electronically produced 4/4 beat, and percussion.
Kool & The Gang, Earth Wind & Fire and all the other disco/funk artists mentioned have never released a house track.

As with any genre, there are tracks which are hard to place - such as the afore-mentioned Donna Summer - I Feel Love, and Safri Duo - Played Alive (The Bongo Song) (a classic track which broke down the genre divides of house/trance/club etc)

On the whole though, it's fairly straight forward! ;)

but even then you have put your foot in it Disco/funk is based on a yep 4/4 beat and percussion hmmm gets seriously awkward now.

Disco is a genre of music that originated in discothèques (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discoth%C3%A8que). Generally the term refers to a specific style of music that has influences from funk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk), soul music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_music), and salsa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa_%28music%29) and the Latin or Hispanic musics which influenced salsa.


salsa being 4/4 ooops

[BeerFunk]

Wabbit - all house music is fundamentally electronically produced. The other genres and styles you mentioned are not.

I do get your point about the 4/4 beat and percussion, as almost every style of music has that. It's hard to explain music at times :embarasse

[soundtracker]

So therefore Chicory Tips "Son of my Father" was the first "house" song?

[BeerFunk]

I did not say 'if a track is electronically produced, it is house', did I?!

Who knows what the first house track was...

[soundtracker]

Didn't say that you did! I asked a question.

[BeerFunk]

Wabbit - all house music is fundamentally electronically produced. The other genres and styles you mentioned are not.

I do get your point about the 4/4 beat and percussion, as almost every style of music has that. It's hard to explain music at times :embarasse


So therefore Chicory Tips "Son of my Father" was the first "house" song?

You implied it! :)

[Have a disco]

Now this is what you call debate

most people would say that

Chaka Khan - aint nobody or Gloria Etefan & Miami sound machine - Dr Beat were the first recognised house tracks, and it is still contested which was first as they were also contested as disco and played at disco's infact hammered for a long while.

the fact that most music based around disco has a 4/4 beat much like house music just throws everything up in the air. hence as far as Im concerned (my own personal opinion) disco is actually early house. As alot of there music is electronically produced via the new keyboards that have not changed in a sense that much today...

Jean michel Jarre is accredited with being the first signs of Techno house and so on and son on but more than anything is the fact people associate disco with being 70'S dance music bands, unlike now which are produced by one or 2 people in there bedrooms but the name although different could really be called disco visa versa house music

[BeerFunk]

Chaka Khan - Ain't Nobody is in no way a house track, Dr Beat arguably is.

Jesse Saunders is generally credited with the first house track in 1983, with On And On, but again it is open to debate. You have to be sensible though, and not start calling Earth, Wind & Fire house music! :p ;)

[soundtracker]

I wouldn't say Dr Beat was house at all! But as many people have stated ad nauseum, one man's house is another man's bungalow!

[soundtracker]

Proto-history: from disco to house: late 1960s to early 1980s
Main article: Electronic music history

House, techno, electro and hip-hop musicians owe their existence to the pioneers of analog synthesizers which enabled a wizardry of sounds to exist, available at the touch of a button or key.

Although many people believe house music to have originated from Donna Summer's "I Feel Love", fully formed electronic music tracks actually came before house. Early American Sci-Fi films and the BBC Soundtrack to popular television series Doctor Who stirred a whole generation of techno music lovers like the space rock generation during the 1970s, influenced by the psychedelic music sound of the late 1960s and bands such as Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, Amon Düül, Crazy World of Arthur Brown, and the so-called Krautrock early electronic scene (Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze). Shunned by many as a gimmick or children's music, it was a genre similar and parallel to the Kosmische Musik scene in Germany. Space rock is characterized by the use of spatial and floating backgrounds, mantra loops, electronic sequences, and futuristic effects over Rock structures. Some of the most representative artists were Gong and Hawkwind.

The late 1970s saw disco utilize the (by then) much-developed electronic sound and a limited genre emerged, appealing mainly to gay and Black audiences. In 1977, disco music crossed over into the mainstream American culture, following the popularity of hit film Saturday Night Fever and its accompanying soundtrack. As disco clubs filled there was a move to larger venues. "Paradise Garage" opened in New York in January 1978, featuring the DJ talents of Larry Levan (1954–1992). Studio 54, another New York disco club, was extremely popular. The clubs played the tunes of singers such as Diana Ross, CHIC, Gloria Gaynor, Kool & the Gang, Donna Summer, and Larry Levan's own hit, “I Got My Mind Made Up.” The disco boom was short-lived. There was a backlash from Middle America, epitomised in Chicago radio DJ Steve Dahl's "Disco Demolition Night" in 1979. Disco returned to the smaller clubs like the Warehouse in Chicago, Illinois.

Opened in 1977, the Warehouse on Jefferson street in Chicago, was a key venue in the development of house music. The main DJ was Frankie Knuckles. The club staples were still the old disco tunes but the limited number of records meant that the DJ had to be a creative force, introducing more deck work to revitalize old tunes. The new mixing skills also had local airplay with the Hot Mix 5 at WBMX. The chief source of this kind of records in Chicago was the record-store imports, etc., where the term “house” was introduced as a shortening of Warehouse (as in these records are played at the Warehouse). Despite the new skills, the music was still essentially disco until the early 1980s when the first stand-alone drum machines were invented. Disco tracks could now be given an edge with the use of a mixer and drum machine. This was an added boost to the prestige of the individual DJs.

In Sheffield, England the industrial band Cabaret Voltaire is often considered to have pioneered their own version of the "house sound" as early as 1981 with tracks like "automotivation". Some recordings of The Clash have also been seen in a similar light.

[edit]
Chicago years: early 1980s - late 1980s
Main article: Chicago house
In 1983 the Music Box club opened in Chicago. Owned by Robert Williams, the driving force was a DJ, Ron Hardy. The chief characteristics of the club's sound were sheer massive volume and an increased pace to the tunes. The pace was apparently the result of Hardy's heroin use. The club also played a wider range of music than just disco. Groups such as Kraftwerk and Blondie were well received, as was a brief flirtation with punk, with dances such as Punking-Out or Jacking being very popular.

Two tunes were arguably the first House music, each arriving in early 1983. The tune that was chronologically first was Jamie Principle and Frankie Knuckles' Your Love, a huge hit in the clubs, but only available on tape. The second, On and On by Jesse Saunders was later put on vinyl (1985). (Shapiro, 2000). Immediately on the tails of these recordings was Chip E. Jack Trax, which defined the genre with its complex rhythms, simple bassline, use of sampling technology, and minimalist vocals.

By 1985 house music dominated the clubs of Chicago, in part due to the radio play the music received on 102.7 FM WBMX, and their resident DJ team, the Hot Mix 5. Also, the music and movement was aided by the musical electronic revolution - the arrival of newer, cheaper and more compact music sequencers, drum machines (the Roland TR-909, TR-808 and TR-707, and Latin percussion machine the TR-727) and bass modules (such as the legendary Roland TB-303 in late 1985) gave House music creators even wider possibilities in creating their own sound, indeed the creation of acid house is directly related to the efforts of DJ Pierre, Larry Heard, and Marshall Jefferson on the new drum machines.

Two record labels dominated the house music scene in Chicago: DJ International Records, owned by Rocky Jones, and Trax Records, owned by Larry Sherman. Trax self-pressed its records and the quality was not as good as the DiscMakers pressings of DJ International.

Many of the songs that defined the era came from these record labels. Steve “Silk” Hurley's 'Music is the Key, Chip E's Like This, and Fingers Inc.’s Mystery of Love (1985) were among some of the defining songs that came from DJ International. Trax released Jack the Bass and Funkin with the Drums Again by Farley Jackmaster Funk in 1985, followed the next year by the house classic Move Your Body (The house Music Anthem) by Marshall Jefferson, and No Way Back by Adonis.

This was something of a double-edged sword. In its favor, Trax was very fast to sign new artists and press their tracks, establishing a large catalog of house tunes, but the label used recycled vinyl to speed up the pressing process, which resulted in physically poor-quality records. Also disappointing was that many artists signed contracts that were rather less favorable towards them than they had hoped.

Trax became the dominant house label, releasing many classics including No Way Back by Adonis, Larry Heard's (as Fingers Inc.) Can You Feel It and the first so-called house anthem in 1986, "Move Your Body" by Marshall Jefferson. This latter tune gave a massive boost to house music, extending recognition of the genre out of Chicago. Steve 'Silk' Hurley became the first house artist to reach number one in the UK in 1987 with Jack Your Body. This and other tracks such as Music is the Key and Love Can't Turn Around helped moved house from its spiritual home to its commercial birthplace —the United Kingdom. Acid house and hip-house scene was dominated by international producers like Tyree Cooper, Mr Lee, Fast Eddie, Kool Rock Steady and Ralphi Rosario at the end of the 1980s.

[edit]
The Detroit Connection: early 1980s - late 1980s
Main article: Detroit techno
A form of music was forming at the same time in Detroit, what became known as Detroit techno. A major influence to the fusion of eclectic sounds into the signature detroit techno sound was a radio program that ran in the mid 1970s until the 1980s by legendary disc jockey The Electrifying Mojo. Music heavily influenced by European Electronica (Kraftwerk, Art of Noise), early b-boy Hip-Hop (Man Parrish, Soul Sonic Force) and Italo Disco (Doctor's Cat, Ris, Klein M.B.O.) this music was pioneered by Juan Atkins, Derrick May, and Kevin Saunderson. The first group of songs to be rotated heavy in Chicago house-music circles were the 1985 releases of NO UFOs by Juan Atkins's group Model 500 on Metroplex Records, Let's Go by Trans X-Ray (Derrick "MAYDAY" May") and "Groovin' without a Doubt" by Inner City (Kevin Saunderson) on KMS Records.

Juan Atkins on his Label Metroplex Records followed the release of "NO UFO's" with 1986's "FUTURE", 1988's the "Sound of Stero / Off to Battle" and 1989's "The Chase".

KMS Followed with releases in 1986 of Blake Baxter's "When we Used to Play / Work your Body", 1987's "Bounce Your Body to the Box" and "Force Field", 1988's "Wiggin" by MAYDAY, "The Sound / How to Play our Music" and “the Goove that Won't Stop” and a remix of "Grooving Without a Doubt". In 1988 as House music began to go more commercial, Kevin Saunderson’s group with Paris Gray released the 1988 hits "Big Fun" and Good Life which eventually were picked up by Virgin Records. Each EP / 12 inch single sported remixes by Mike "Hitman" Wilson and Steve "Silk" Hurley of Chicago and Derrick "Mayday" May and Juan Atkins of Detroit. In 1989 KMS had another hit release of "Rock to the Beat" which was a hit overseas and in Chicago

Derrick "Mayday" May had a style that was similar to Chicago native Larry Heard (Mr. Fingers), but soon became distinct and unique and was received well in Chicago, with releases on his Transmat Label, between 1986-1989 Transmat released hits like "Nude Photo", "It is What it is" and "Beyond the Dance" by Rythim is Rythim, "The Groove" by Suburban Knights, and "Illusion" by R-Tyme. The biggest hit and most influential in the House Music scene was Rythim is Rythim's "Strings of Life" which became a cult classic in dance music clubs internationally. Derrick May also recorded with Kool Kat "Nude Photo 88" with the cult classic "Sinister".

Though Detroit Techno is a music form in its own right and part of the "Techno" worldwide music, its pioneers were also instrumental in the forwarding of House Music internationally and especially in the UK and Europe.

[edit]
The British connection: late 1980s - early 1990s
In Britain the growth of house can be divided around the "Summer of Love" in 1988. House had a presence in Britain almost as early as it appeared in Chicago; however there was a strong divide between the House music as part of the gay scene and "straight" music. House grew in northern England, the Midlands and the South East. Founded in 1982 by Factory Records the Hacienda in Manchester became an extension of the "Northern Soul" genre and was one of the early, key English dance music clubs. Until 1986 the club was a financial disaster, the crowds only started to grow when the resident DJs (Pickering, Park and Da Silva) started to play house music. Many underground venues and DJ nights also took place across the U.K. like for instance the private parties hosted by an early Miss Moneypenny's contingent in Birmingham and many London venues. House was boosted in the UK by the tour in the same year of Knuckles, Jefferson, Fingers Inc. (Heard) and Adonis as the DJ International Tour. Amusingly, one of the early anthemic tunes, "Promised Land" by Joe Smooth, was covered and charted within a week by the Style Council. The first English House tune came out in 1986 - "Carino" by T-Coy. Europeans embraced house music, and began booking legendary American House DJs to play at the big clubs, such as Ministry of Sound, whose resident, DJ Harvey brought in Larry Levan.

The underground house scene in cities such as Birmingham, Manchester and London were also provided with many underground Pirate Radio stations and DJ's alike which helped bolster an already contagious, but otherwise ignored by the mainstream, music genre.

One of the earliest and most influential UK house and techno record labels was Network Records (otherwise known as Kool Kat records) who helped introduce Italian and U.S. dance music to Britain as well as promoting select UK dance music acts.

But house was also developing on Ibiza. In the 1970s Ibiza was a hippy stop-over and a site for the rich, but by the mid-1980s a distinct Balearic mix of house was discernible. Several clubs like Amnesia with DJ Alfredo were playing a mix of rock, pop, disco and house. These clubs fueled by their distinctive sound and Ecstasy began to have an influence on the British scene. By late 1987 DJs like Paul Oakenfold and Danny Rampling were bringing the Ibiza sound to UK clubs like Shoom in Southwark (London), Heaven, Future and Purple Raines Spectrum in Birmingham. But the "Summer of Love" needed an added ingredient that would again come from America.

In America the music was being developed to create a more sophisticated sound, moving beyond just drum loops and short samples. New York saw this maturity evidenced in the slick production of disco house crossover tracks from artists such as Mateo & Matos and Blaze. In Chicago, Marshall Jefferson had formed the house 'super group' Ten City (from intensity), demonstrating the developments in "That's the Way Love Is". In Detroit there were the beginnings of what would be called techno, with the emergence of Juan Atkins, Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson. Atkins had already scored in 1982 with Cybotron and in 1985 he released Model 500 "No UFOs" which became a big regional hit, followed by dozens of tracks on Transmat, Metroplex and Fragile. One of the most unusual was "Strings of Life" by Derrick May, who described his sound as "George Clinton and Kraftwerk jamming together in an elevator". It was a darker, more intellectual strain of house that followed its own trajectory. "Techno-Scratch" was released by the Knights Of The Turntable in 1984 which had a similar techno sound to Cybotron and is possibly where the term techno originated, although this is generally credited to Atkins, who borrowed the term from the phrase "techno rebels" in Cybotron's 1984 hit 'Techno City', which appeared in writer Alvin Toffler's book Future Shock (see Sicko 1998).

The records were completely independent of the major record labels and the parties at which the tracks were played avoided commercial music.

The combination of house and techno came to Britain and gave House a phenomenal boost. A few clubs began to feature specialist House nights - the Hacienda had "Hot" on Wednesday from July 1988, 2,500 people could enjoy the British take on the Ibiza scene, the classic "Voodoo Ray" by A Guy Called Gerald (Gerald Simpson) was designed for the Hacienda and Madchester. Factory boss Tony Wilson also promoted acid house culture on his weekly TV show. The Midlands also embraced the late 80s House scene with many underground venues such as multi storey car parks and more legal dance stations such as the Digbeth Institute (now the 'Sanctuary' and home to Sundissential).

[edit]
Developments in the United States in late 1980s to early 1990s
Back in America the scene had still not progressed beyond a small number of clubs in Chicago, Detroit and New York, Paradise Garage was still the top club, although they now had Todd Terry, his cover of Class Action's Larry Levan mixed "Weekend" demonstrated the continuum from the underground disco to a new House sound with hip-hop influences evident in the quicker sampling and the more rugged bass-line. While hip-hop had made it onto radio play-lists, the only other choices were Rock, Country & Western or R & B. Other notable New York producers and DJs of the time were Bobby Konders, Tommy Musto, Frankie Bones all of whom had their work licensed internationally in the 1980's. In fact, many of the recordings on the nascent XL Recordings (UK) came from those artists.

Other influences from New York came from the hip-hop, reggae, and Latin community, and many of the New York City super producers/DJ's began surfacing for the first time (Erick Morillo, Roger Sanchez, Junior Sanchez, Danny Tenaglia, Jonathan Peters) with unique sounds that would evolve into other genres (tribal house, progressive house, funky house). Producers such as Masters At Work and Kerri Chandler also started pioneering a richer Garage sound that was picked up on by 'outsiders' from the worlds of jazz, hip-hop and downbeat as much as it was by House afficiandos.

Influential gospel/R&B-influenced Aly-us released "Time Passes On" in 1993 (Strictly Rhythm), then later, "Follow Me" which received radio airplay as well as being extensively played in clubs. Another US hit which received radioplay was the single "Time for the Perculator" by Cajmere, which became the prototype of Ghettohouse sub-genre.

Cajmere is held by many to be one of the revitalizing forces in Chicago Houses's rebirth of the early 1990's. Most of the 80's generation were burnt out by bad contracts or had moved to New York or Europe. Cajmere started the Cajual and Relief labels (amongst otheres) offering a home to any producer in Chicago, no matter the style. By the early 90's artists such as Cajmere himself (under that name as well as Green Velvet and as producer for Dajae), DJ Sneak, Glenn Underground and others were bringing out fresh records at a furious pace. Artists from the also recently-revitalised Dance Mania such as DJ Rush, Robert Armani and his cousin Paul Johnson recorded for both and were in high demand as DJs in the lucrative European club circuit. Derrick Carter also became a deeply respected producer and a legendary DJ at this time.

Detroit was mostly known for techno but there is a very fine line between Techno and House, often impossible to find with labels such as 430 West, KMS and Serious Grooves with producers such as Kevin Saunderson, Marc Kinchen, Octave One (as well as fellow travellers from Chicago such as Chez Damier & Ron Trent who released records on Detroit labels regularly). During this period Underground Resistance were just as likely to release a pumping piano and vocals garage track as they were an electro track and had their Happy Records subsidiary.

Also at this time stirrings of a chilled dance scene relatively unconnected to the Chicago, Detroit, and New York scenes was springing up in the Los Angeles area with parties organised by Hardkiss and UK expats like DIY and Charles Webster. House music eventually came to clubs in cities like Boston, Providence, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington D.C..

[edit]
After the "Summer of Love": early 1990s to mid 1990s
In Britain, further experiments in the genre boosted its appeal (and gave the opportunity for new names to be made up).

House and rave clubs like Lakota, Miss Moneypenny's and the original C.R.E.A.M. began to emerge across Britain, hosting regular events for people who would otherwise have had no place to enjoy the mutating house and dance scene.

The idea of 'chilling out' was born in Britain with ambient house albums like The KLF's Chill Out. However, this album is not house strictly speaking, because its prominent lack of percussion on most tracks. Another example would be the song "Analogue BubbleBath" by Aphex Twin. In fact, Chill Out electronic music is often defined as a totally different genres, such as Ambient, or even downtempo (later on) or New Age (older). The unifying feature of Chill Out electronica is long sustained tones and a more tonal than percussive-noisey quality compared to other styles. Nevertheless, lots of compilation albums sprung up, no doubt, each one redefining the terminology along the way.

At the same time, a new indie dance scene full of variety was being forged by bands like the Happy Mondays, The Shamen, New Order, Meat Beat Manifesto, Renegade Soundwave, EMF, The Grid and The Beloved. In New York, bands such as Deee-Lite furthered house music's international and multi-era cultural influence. Two distinctive tracks from this era were the Orb's "Little Fluffy Clouds" (with a distinctive vocal sample from Rickie Lee Jones) and the Happy Mondays' "Wrote for Luck" ("WFL") which was transformed into a dance hit by Paul Oakenfold.

The Criminal Justice Bill of 1994 was a government attempt to ban large events featuring music with "repetitive beats". There were a number of abortive "Kill the Bill" demonstrations. Although the bill did become law in November 1994, it had little effect. The music continued to grow and change, as typified by the emergence of acts like Leftfield with "Release the Pressure", which introduced dub and reggae into the house sound. In more commercial areas a mix of R&B with stronger bass-lines gained favour.

The music was being moulded, not just by drugs, but also the mixed cultural and racial groups involved in the house music scene. Tunes like "The Bouncer" from Kicks Like a Mule used sped-up hip-hop breakbeats. With SL2's "On A Ragga Trip" they gave the foundations to what would become drum and bass and jungle. Initially called breakbeat hardcore, it found popularity in London clubs like Rage as a "inner city" music. Labels like Moving Shadow and Reinforced became underground favorites. One label, Moonshine, featured impressive compilation albums entitled, "140 BPM: The Speed Limit" which showcased what was termed "London Hardcore Techno". Showing an increased tempo around 160 bpm, tunes like "Terminator" from Goldie marked a distinct change from house with heavier, faster and more complex bass-lines: drum and bass (dnb. Goldie's early work culminated in the twenty-two minute epic "Inner City Life" a hit from his debut album Timeless.

UK Garage developed later, growing in the underground club scene from drum and bass ideas. Aimed more for dancing than listening, it produced distinctive tunes like "Double 99" from Ripgroove in 1997. Gaining popularity amongst clubbers in Ibiza, it was re-imported to the UK and in a softened form had chart success: soon it was being applied to mainstream acts like Liberty X and Victoria Beckham.

4 Hero went in the opposite direction - from brutal Breakbeats they adopted more soul and jazz influences, and even a full orchestral section in their quest for sophistication. Later, this led directly to the West London scene known as Brokenbeat or Breakbeat. This style is also not strictly "house", but as with all electronic music genres, there is overlap.

[edit]
Mid to late-1990s
Back in the US some artists were finding it difficult to gain recognition. Another import into Europe of not only a style but also the creator himself was Joey Beltram. From Brooklyn his "Energy Flash" had proved rather too much for American House enthusiasts and he need a move to find success. The American industry threw its weight behind DJs like Junior Vasquez, Armand van Helden or even Masters at Work who appeared to churn out endless remixes of mainstream pop music. Some argued that many of the formulaic remixes of Madonna, Kylie Minogue, U2, Britney Spears, the Spice Girls, Spiller, Mariah Carey, Puff Daddy, Elvis Presley, Vengaboys and other bands and pop divas did not deserve to be considered house records.

During this time many individuals and particularly corporations realized that house music could be extremely lucrative and much of the 1990s saw the rise of sponsorship deals and other industry practices common in other genres.

To develop successful hit singles, some argued that the record industry developed "handbag house": throwaway pop songs with a retro disco beat. Underground house DJs were reluctant to play this style, so a new generation of DJs were created from record company staff, and new clubs like Miss Moneypenny's, Liverpool's Cream (as opposed to the original underground night, C.R.E.A.M.) and the Ministry of Sound were opened to provide a venue for more commercial sounds.

By 1996 Pete Tong had a major role in the playlist of BBC Radio 1, and every record he released seemed to be guaranteed airplay. Major record companies began to open "superclubs" promoting their own acts, forcing many independent clubs and labels out of business. These superclubs entered into sponsorship deals initially with fast food, soft drinks, and clothing companies and later with banks and insurance brokers. Flyers in clubs in Ibiza often sported many corporate logos.

[edit]
House in the new millennium
Dance music arguably hit its peak at the turn of the millennium, especially in the UK. A number of reasons are seen for its decline in mainstream popularity during the 2000s:

Many people felt that club promoters had gone too far in what they were asking people to pay on a weekly basis to enter clubs. A prime example was on New Year's Eve at the turn of the Millennium. Some promoters had been asking upwards of £100 ($180) to attend clubs and various event venues across the country. A large number of club goers instead decided to stay away all together or go to local parties. Many in general grew tired with paying up to £20 ($35) on a weekly basis for poor quality club nights which had little variation from week to week and venue to venue.
Older people that had been with the scene from the beginning started to move away. Many in their 30's started having families and settling down. Many younger people viewed Dance music as becoming increasingly outmoded with the same set of DJ's playing in Clubs and on the Radio year after year. This led to the term "Dad House" being applied.
The democratization and mainstreaming of electronic music composing through ever-cheaper computer software made electronic music as a whole less novel and more commonplace. This also affected its marketability, since most music marketing requires a high degree of novelty to drive sales and cultural interest.
Many older clubbers who did have families remained active in the scene, and small-scale events organisers, invariably not tied to a venue, began to appear to cater to a group that was increasingly ostracised by younger clubbers, and unable to go clubbing more than once or twice a month. This scene subsequently has expanded and about half of those involved are under 30.
A lot of the same music was being played on commercial dance shows, and in bars, supermarkets, and television advertisements. This along with a lack of invention in the mainstream left many people feeling increasingly bored with the music. This has inevitably led to the music being forced back underground to its roots.
Ecstasy, the drug of choice for many on the Dance scene during the late 80's and through out the 90's, started to lose its popularity to Cocaine and Ketamine. Both these drugs changed the nature and the atmosphere of the scene. In part this was due to the decreasing proportion of MDMA in Ecstasy, which was increasingly being cut with Amphetamines, Ketamine as well as a generally greater amount of inert 'bulk' substances.
The global rise of hip hop during the late 90's as well as the re-emergence in the UK of a strong Rock and Indie scene drew many away from Dance Music.
The Glade, the UK's largest electronic dance festival, began in 2004 as an offshoot of the Glastonbury Festival, featuring the UK's only dedicated Psytrance stage.
[edit]
House music today
As of 2003, a new generation of DJs and promoters, including James Zabiela and Mylo, were emerging, determined to kickstart a more underground scene and there were signs of a renaissance in Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit and other racially-mixed cities, as well as in Canada, Scandinavia, Scotland and Germany. For example, in 2004 the Montreal club Stereo, co-owned by House music legend David Morales and party aficionado Scott Lancaster, celebrated its sixth year in operation and in 2005 The Government in Toronto with Mark Oliver is celebrating its 9th anniversary. Stereo, opened in 1998, was modeled after the seminal New York City club Paradise Garage, focusing the experience on the quality of sound and lighting. The key to house music was re-invention. A willingness to steal or develop new styles and a low cost of entry encouraged innovation. The development of computers and the Internet play a critical role in this innovation. One need only to examine how house music has evolved over time to evaluate the effect computers and the Internet have had on house music and music in general.

In 2005 house music finds itself at a crossroads. The soulful black and Latin-influenced sound that enjoyed popularity in the late '90s and early '00s has lost momentum and has been alienated from almost all generic and hit music radio stations. Audiences all over the world are fragmenting into different camps based around the old-guard house sound and a darker, more synth-driven sound influenced by '80s retro sentiment. Opinions are split on the new music that's trending in. Some consider it directionalism, and others see it as an entirely new genre of music, having more to do with techno, electronica and EBM music than house.

Just recently, Richard Daley, Mayor of Chicago proclaimed August 10, 2005 to be House Unity Day in Chicago last July 27, 2005 in celebration of House Music's 21st anniversary. DJ's like Frankie Knuckles, Marshall Jefferson, Paul Johnson and Mickey Oliver were cited among the many other DJ's who came together to celebrate the proclamation at the Summer Dance Series event organized by Chicago's Department of Cultural Affairs.

Saturday Night Live has a recurring sketch called Deep House Dish featuring Kenan Thompson and Rachel Dratch as reviewers of house music. In a typical episode, several "performers," usually including the week's guest, will each sing a parodically bad song, and then be interviewed by the hosts. Dratch's comments are never interesting, a fact often pointed out by Thompson.

[Have a disco]

Saved me the time and effort of banging it up electronic/synthesised music being house music starting as early as the mid 70's. Exactly the same time as disco hence my original point house and disco being basically one and the same

[BeerFunk]

Wabbit's equation - ELECTRONIC/SYNTHESISED MUSIC = HOUSE MUSIC :confused:

[soundtracker]

Saved me the time and effort of banging it up electronic/synthesised music being house music starting as early as the mid 70's. Exactly the same time as disco hence my original point house and disco being basically one and the same
Yeah, if you ignore:
"Despite the new skills, the music was still essentially disco until the early 1980s "

[Thames Valley Discos]

I have decided that: House music is what i listen to at home, and Disco music is what i listen to at a Disco. Any guesses on what i,ve decided for garage?

[Have a disco]

so really early house is a broad name for disco as well as late disco is for house

considering both styles emerged from nightclub / discotheques, the real disco genre can really only be disco bands not the electronic version that over took it later
ie EW & F , kool & the gang, even rose royce that came out with band equipment and toured...

[Corabar Steve]

I can't believe I just read all that, at the end of the day who really cares?


Any guesses on what i,ve decided for garage?
I can recomend this for you Paul (http://www.acerecords.co.uk/content.php?page_id=59&release=4674)

[BeerFunk]

House music evolved from disco music - that does not make disco music 'early house' :teeth:

That's like calling a T-Rex an early Crocodile! :D

[soundtracker]

ah but does it make "house" late disco?................






























and does anyone actually give a toss? :teeth:

[Corabar Entertainment]

Music is an Art, and as such it develops and evolves..... there are no distict lines between one genre and another.

[BeerFunk]

Music is an Art, and as such it develops and evolves..... there are no distict lines between one genre and another.

Exactly - echoing what I said previously - thank you! ;)

[soundtracker]

Music is an Art, and as such it develops and evolves..... there are no distict lines between one genre and another.
AS I said well back on page one:

and we can all post a thousand other songs that don't fit comfortably into any specific genre, and I'm sure we can all argue until we're blue in the face about what constitutes, dance, happy house, ska, reggae etc and no-one will be right or wrong because its all a matter of opinion!
:teeth:

[Corabar Steve]

That's like calling a T-Rex an early Crocodile! :D
I thought it was early Glam :teeth:

[soundtracker]

or late underground?

DON'T EVEN GO THERE!!!!! :teeth:

[Have a disco]

therefore if there are no distinct lines there can be no genres as all is art and everything can only be labelled as say 90's music 80's music etc etc

What is a genre if it isnt a distinct line

remember what they taught at school with the interlocking circles each with certain numbers in. imaging that it is in a form of a flower that is continually expanding each time it doubles another generation has been and gone. imagine the amount segments there are of any style of music are now. Is these not in a distinct line of there own but still placed under a group name but all are interlinked still with another genre can you imagine the numbers within them now.

this could be explained simpler using fractual equations but Im not into neuclear physics or time and space diferencials....

Everything is linked to something in someway. upto the late 60's everything was based around a band or a singer. then technological advances upgraded the instruments, and a whole new world opened up disco / reggae / pop / house / soul / rap etc etc. but all are now inter-meshed and even now reggae was relabeled as ragga and now reggaton? like disco is now relabeled house a few years ago. both are the same no matter how much we hate to admit it. just names are invented to bring & keep an older style uptodate

[BeerFunk]

therefore if there are no distinct lines there can be no genres as all is art and everything can only be labelled as say 90's music 80's music etc etc

What is a genre if it isnt a distinct line

remember what they taught at school with the interlocking circles each with certain numbers in. imaging that it is in a form of a flower that is continually expanding each time it doubles another generation has been and gone. imagine the amount segments there are of any style of music are now. Is these not in a distinct line of there own but still placed under a group name but all are interlinked still with another genre can you imagine the numbers within them now.

this could be explained simpler using fractual equations but Im not into neuclear physics or time and space diferencials....

Everything is linked to something in someway. upto the late 60's everything was based around a band or a singer. then technological advances upgraded the instruments, and a whole new world opened up disco / reggae / pop / house / soul / rap etc etc. but all are now inter-meshed and even now reggae was relabeled as ragga and now reggaton? like disco is now relabeled house a few years ago. both are the same no matter how much we hate to admit it. just names are invented to bring & keep an older style uptodate
I understand what you're saying, but the lines are only blurry for a few tracks - generally it is very easy to see the difference.

For example -

Armand van Helden - My My My - HOUSE
Andrea True Connection - More More More - DISCO

If you try to argue that in any way - well I can't say/do any more for you! :)

[Corabar Steve]

Well I think there should be a heavy metal category at the MoBOs, you an trace it's roots back to the "spirituals" that the negro slaves sang on the plantations in the American south. Definately Black Origin :teeth:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

and does anyone actually give a toss? :teeth:

No! :teeth:

[Fresh]

therefore if there are no distinct lines there can be no genres as all is art and everything can only be labelled as say 90's music 80's music etc etc

What is a genre if it isnt a distinct line

remember what they taught at school with the interlocking circles each with certain numbers in. imaging that it is in a form of a flower that is continually expanding each time it doubles another generation has been and gone. imagine the amount segments there are of any style of music are now. Is these not in a distinct line of there own but still placed under a group name but all are interlinked still with another genre can you imagine the numbers within them now.

this could be explained simpler using fractual equations but Im not into neuclear physics or time and space diferencials....

Everything is linked to something in someway. upto the late 60's everything was based around a band or a singer. then technological advances upgraded the instruments, and a whole new world opened up disco / reggae / pop / house / soul / rap etc etc. but all are now inter-meshed and even now reggae was relabeled as ragga and now reggaton? like disco is now relabeled house a few years ago. both are the same no matter how much we hate to admit it. just names are invented to bring & keep an older style uptodate


Everything is linked because it is music .... it was created, someone listens to it and then adds a new style to it .... it's more like logical family rules than a ZEN diagram. Whatever you are brought up with, you take with you and repeat ...but add your own style.

I'm not disagreeing with your statements as factally they are correct in style definition ... but based on your theory we should all be called adam or eve.

House is a "Style" not a genre (A category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, marked by a distinctive style, form, or content) ... i think that's where you have to divide the line and agree that disco is disco and house is house, defining the micro styles is a discussional rat hole as we have seen .... the same as some people do not think that rap is hip-hop .... they are two different styles from the same humble start in life .... the caveman (and just for musical reference that is not the late 80's hip-hop group "caveman" ... or were they rap :rolleyes: )

[Have a disco]

but this is where it is too hard, as over the last 30 years both have crossed over into each other so many times the line is no longer perferated it is no more, they are one and the same thanks its other counter part pop

[BeerFunk]

Ok then... house is the same as disco... I give up.. :rolleyes:

[Corabar Steve]

but this is where it is too hard, as over the last 30 years both have crossed over into each other so many times the line is no longer perferated it is no more, they are one and the same thanks its other counter part pop
Here lies a major flaw in your arguement, house hasn't been going 30 years.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, Doobie Brothers - Long train running, Rock? Funk? Disco? What?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Here lies a major flaw in your arguement, house hasn't been going 30 years.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, Doobie Brothers - Long train running, Rock? Funk? Disco? What?

Just had a listen...funk, definately :)

Without loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove....etc :beer:

[Corabar Steve]

Just had a listen...funk, definately :)

Without loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove....etc :beer:
But played by a rock band

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But played by a rock band

What a fool believes? :teeth:

[Corabar Steve]

Ballad :teeth:

[Fresh]

Here lies a major flaw in your arguement, house hasn't been going 30 years.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, Doobie Brothers - Long train running, Rock? Funk? Disco? What?

but the latter remix (93 ??) was disco .... or was it house ?

[Have a disco]

Here lies a major flaw in your arguement, house hasn't been going 30 years.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, Doobie Brothers - Long train running, Rock? Funk? Disco? What?

It may not have been called house back in the early days but listening to all the styles now it most definitely is house/disco whichever you prefer. and yes Doobie brothers an excellent choice

same could be said about Laid Back - white horse, Ram Jam - Black betty all genres with 4/4 beat remix to a house beat which incidentally is 4/4 but all are really and essentially Rock tracks Dance is essentially from rock

[soundtracker]

The Doobies are a band that are impossible to pigeon-hole, R & B, Rock, Soul, Funk, Bluegrass, Country,Metal, all on one album. They used to get called "blue-eyed soul" (along with people like Hall & Oates, and the Average White Band) for a while which was down to the voice of Michael McDonald. The "funk" edge was provided by the Memphis Horns (usually associated with Stax Records releases) especially on Live performances.
I hate this everybody in a pigeon hole nonsense, where would you put Bowie? He's done the lot- Folk, Glam, Hard Rock, Metal,Electronic,Disco,Soul, Funk,Pop , almost every album is different, and as I said earlier - who gives a toss!

[BeerFunk]

and as I said earlier - who gives a toss!

Well you obviously do - or you wouldnt keep posting!! :teeth:

[Corabar Entertainment]

where would you put Bowie?Well, obviously, he has a genre category all of his own! :teeth: :teeth:

[Corabar Steve]

where would you put Bowie?

Well, obviously, he has a genre category all of his own! :teeth: :teeth:Yep LEGEND

[BeerFunk]

David Bowie has 2 categories - genius and garbage

[Corabar Steve]

David Bowie has 2 categories - genius and garbageThat's the trouble with genius, it's often misunderstood :teeth:

[BeerFunk]

No, I appreciate his best work, but when you listen through all his work - you find some pretty appalling tunes by his standard. The guy was a nutter, I don't think he would even realise which were his best tunes!

[Have a disco]

People release strange stuff to just get in the charts Bowie not escaping this clause 'the laughing gnome'. but now he has freedom of choice to release what he likes within his on criterea. even he has released dance hits in his time, but legend he definitely is

The whole reason I saked the question in the first place was because Im trying to assemble a family tree of music, easy up until I hit disco vs house then I have come unstuck as they hit every other genre in there own way and placing one infront of the other was imposible as the further you go back the bigger they link together . Both started about the same time and both in diferent guises that they are now in.. The only real diference was disco started away from electronic sounds and real instruments were used for them, and house has always been using electronic instrumentation from day 1

[soundtracker]

People release strange stuff to just get in the charts Bowie not escaping this clause 'the laughing gnome'. but now he has freedom of choice to release what he likes within his on criterea. even he has released dance hits in his time, but legend he definitely is

The whole reason I saked the question in the first place was because Im trying to assemble a family tree of music, easy up until I hit disco vs house then I have come unstuck as they hit every other genre in there own way and placing one infront of the other was imposible as the further you go back the bigger they link together . Both started about the same time and both in diferent guises that they are now in.. The only real diference was disco started away from electronic sounds and real instruments were used for them, and house has always been using electronic instrumentation from day 1
I don't think you have your facts together there young man. Bowie didn't release "Laughing Gnome" it was released by his old record label(Deram) to cash in on the success of theZiggy Stardust/Aladdin Sane era. He actually fought tooth and nail to prevent its release.

[Have a disco]

still david bowie no matter what label. even he has begrudgingly had to accept that as its now on his greatest hits anthology collection a hits a hit

[Corabar Steve]

Nowt wrong with the Laughing Gnome, it was the firt Bowie track I bought.

D@mn good Anthony Newly impression to boot!

[Have a disco]

Bac on track guys LOL LOL LOL said a gnome????

[Corabar Steve]

The Doobies are a band that are impossible to pigeon-hole, R & B, Rock, Soul, Funk, Bluegrass, Country,Metal, all on one album. They used to get called "blue-eyed soul" (along with people like Hall & Oates, and the Average White Band) for a while which was down to the voice of Michael McDonald. The "funk" edge was provided by the Memphis Horns (usually associated with Stax Records releases) especially on Live performances.
I personally wouldn't cass Hall & Oates along with the Doobies & AWB
I would say they're far more MOR

[soundtracker]

I personally wouldn't cass Hall & Oates along with the Doobies & AWB
I would say they're far more MOR
Glad I didn't ask you to then! :teeth:

[Corabar Steve]

MOR being another term for boring :teeth:

[StarZSoundS]

Steve....ressurecting this post....


I'm sure I saw this guy Trainspotting when I was in Haverhill the other day!!


Why did he get banned.....Oh Right....got it.

[Corabar Steve]

Why did he get banned.....Oh Right....got it.
Too long a stroy to go into, suffice to say it wasn't for want of warnings.

[Excalibur]

Too long a stroy to go into, suffice to say it wasn't for want of warnings.

He was indeed given an inordinate amount of rope. ;) Funnily enough, I actually owe the lad a favour in a strange way.

[A1DL]

Ahh, Clifford, bless him :)
He will be long remembered ????
Let's dedicate a nice Abba record to him...;) ????

[StarZSoundS]

Ahh, Clifford, bless him :)
He will be long remembered ????
Let's dedicate a nice Abba record to him...;) ????

Dancing Queen:confused: ;) :D

[Penfold42]

Ahh, Clifford, bless him :)

http://www.tvwhirl.co.uk/images/listerine1990.jpg

:lol: