Pros, Cons and Amateurs.

[NKR]

Hiya chaps.

Been a busy bunny of late picking up a few great jobs and getting preferred status with a couple of venues including doing repeat work for a Championship football club (not yet preferred, but feel its coming once we do our next job and nail it again).

Pro's - lots of great work coming through.
Con's - busy most evenings staying on top of things and web site is currently a waste of time as it does nothing (Am I bothered - nope we are still booked up)
Amateurs - We have annoyed a few full time chappies by winning this work. How do I know this? Well we have had the usual conversations with some of the new work about PAT, PLI, Inland Revenue, quality of gear, blah, blah, blah. The venues asked as the deposed DJ was not happy losing out to hobbyists and assumed we would not be straight. No we actually cost more - I asked! You get what you pay for and we impressed and won. They also now look bad for the sour grapes.

Why am I sharing this. Well just to get it off my chest really. I am a hobbyist, but I am legal and carry good gear. However, it would appear that vast parts of the industry think that hobbyists must be dodgy and rubbish. They need to get over it and raise the game or we will keep deposing them. That is free market economics for you.

Just sounding off as it annoys me when people believe we must be somehow cheating!

[Vectis]

web site is currently a waste of time as it does nothing

Not surprising ... from an SEO perspective (if nothing else) it's a disaster :o

Good on you though for getting the work in through more traditional means. :beer1:

[Twinspin]

Stuff em mate. If you do a good job it doesnt matter whether you do it for a hobby or full time.

[STEVE HANLEY]

I am a part time/hobbyist as you call it. I ve been up and running properly since November last year. I try to run it as professionally as I can.

I have all my PAT certs and my PLI through the NADJ. I'm in the process of having a website built (Curtesy of Vectis) and I'm extremely pleased overall as to how it's gone so far.

So well done to all part timers who run their shows like full timers

[StarZSoundS]

Great thread.......


Its what I have been saying for Months.....I thought I was on my own.....seems not.:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

[sleah]

Well done NKR:)

Just goes to prove my opinion that being Professional has nothing to do with whether or not you do it full time, and everything to do with how you do it:beer1:

[Shaun]

Great thread.......


Its what I have been saying for Months.....I thought I was on my own.....seems not.:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

The only ones that seem to have a "bee in their bonnet" about the whole full time part time thang are the part timers (as far as I can see). I think that nearly every full timer on this forum (myself included) will know that part timers provide as professional a service as the full timers, I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.

[StarZSoundS]

I think that nearly every full timer on this forum (myself included) will know that part timers provide as professional a service as the full timers, I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.



All good then Shaun.....cos thats exactly what I think too....:) :) :) :)

[DazzyD]

It's been said many times on here that you needn't spare a thought about what others do or think. It's what you do that counts and there's only you can take the direction you want your business to go.

I've seen quite a few full-time outfits that, imo, leave a lot be desired when it comes to providing a top class service. I too am a part-timer but I've built my reputation on providing a quality show and giving the client what they want (well, most of the time anyway!)


The only ones that seem to have a "bee in their bonnet" about the whole full time part time thang are the part timers (as far as I can see). I think that nearly every full timer on this forum (myself included) will know that part timers provide as professional a service as the full timers, I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.

I've seen a few moans on here from full-timers about part-timers operating in their area. Not all members are as understanding as you, Shaun, nor as level headed.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Well done pal. I would sill look at getting the SEO sorted on your website. You have got it afterall, why not use it....




I am a legit part timer, and thinking back, before i joined the forum, i was as bad as Sid with regards to my pricing (well not that bad, but you know ;) ).

I recently restructured my pricing becaue we (legit part timers) are providing a good a service as alot of the full timers, and (forgive the crude terminology here, but i just dont how how else to put it) we are the bigger threat to the full-timers than Sid will ever be.

We often target the same market, and from a clients point of view thats the difference between "us" and "them"...its alot harder to justify, whereas with Sid...things get a whole lot simpler.

In alot of ways, us part-timers are better off because we can drop out prices (if we want to ;) ) to win work, and for the most part not have to worry about putting food on the table, but if we are full legit, why not charge the same as the full-timers, it makes for a fairer economy...and if we still win the work, so be it...atleast its not through massive undercutting.

:)

[soundtracker]

I think that if you had asked me this when I was a part-timer I would have said that my service is as good as any full-timer. Having spent a while now doing things on a full-time basis, my service levels have increased by massive amounts This I feel, is simply down to having as much time as I need available to do the things that I want to do, I'm not struggling to fit everything into my day, rushing here there and everywhere to keep bosses happy, and being conscious of targets in my full-time job, that need to be hit.
As Dazzy said above, "I've seen quite a few full-time outfits that, imo, leave a lot be desired" and I think that can just as easily apply to part-timers as well.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I think that if you had asked me this when I was a part-timer I would have said that my service is as good as any full-timer. Having spent a while now doing things on a full-time basis, my service levels have increased by massive amounts This I feel, is simply down to having as much time as I need available to do the things that I want to do, I'm not struggling to fit everything into my day, rushing here there and everywhere to keep bosses happy, and being conscious of targets in my full-time job, that need to be hit.
As Dazzy said above, "I've seen quite a few full-time outfits that, imo, leave a lot be desired" and I think that can just as easily apply to part-timers as well.

I completely agree. My day job is very very flexible and ive a great boss. If i had a strictly 9-5 job with a t:Censored: of a boss, then either my workload, or level of service would have to drop.

[DazzyD]

I think that if you had asked me this when I was a part-timer I would have said that my service is as good as any full-timer. Having spent a while now doing things on a full-time basis, my service levels have increased by massive amounts This I feel, is simply down to having as much time as I need available to do the things that I want to do, I'm not struggling to fit everything into my day, rushing here there and everywhere to keep bosses happy, and being conscious of targets in my full-time job, that need to be hit.
As Dazzy said above, "I've seen quite a few full-time outfits that, imo, leave a lot be desired" and I think that can just as easily apply to part-timers as well.

Totally agree with you, Pete. At they end of the day, if a part-timer wants to go after the same market as a full-timer then he (or she) is going have to be on the ball with regards to the service he (or she) provides. I'm not saying part-timers are the best and I'm not saying full-timers are the best. There is good and bad in both camps.

And I do see where you're coming from in that the full-timers can devote all of their working time and resources to the job in hand so, theoretically, they should be able to provide a better standard of service but we all know that that's not always the case.

In the olden days (B.C. - Before Children!) I was full-time for a while which was great as I could support myself and I had the freedom of time on my hands. 3 kids, a disabled partner and a particularly bad year later meant I had to rethink things and I got a day job. So I've seen life on both sides of the fence. And, by sticking to the principles that I believe in, I've been able to work my business the same way. And I hope to in the future.

[rob1963]

I think that if you had asked me this when I was a part-timer I would have said that my service is as good as any full-timer. Having spent a while now doing things on a full-time basis, my service levels have increased by massive amounts This I feel, is simply down to having as much time as I need available to do the things that I want to do, I'm not struggling to fit everything into my day, rushing here there and everywhere to keep bosses happy, and being conscious of targets in my full-time job, that need to be hit.

Much as it pains me to say this, I completely agree, and I noticed the same thing when I went full time.

The main difference between part timers & full timers is that full timers can put 100% of their time, effort & energy into their business, as well as having less distractions that someone with a day job.

That's a really important fact which you simply can't get away from.

[NKR]

I was just getting it off my chest as we won the stuff then had the second phase as I call it of - "yeah the people you are replacing believe you must be somehow cheating - well we aren't."
Just got back from a freebie at my wife's school (she's a teacher - I know you knew that). Put some PA out for a strictly come dancing night and Kev did a bit of singing for a fund raiser. Great advertising! 2 confirmed gigs and all the schools work going forward including staff do's and leavers balls. Head confirmed himself to me there and then as he was so pleased with what we did - and yes they did say we know we will have to pay you for them.
Its going great guns from not a lot.
A know the web site is just not working. I like the way it looks, but it is SEO rubbish. All I get from it is my phone ringing twice a day with witheld numbers that go off or want to sell me something. Complete waste of energy from that respect, but it is a point of reference for clients so works from that perspective, which is what it was designed for and is helping win jobs.

[NKR]

That's a really important fact which you simply can't get away from.

I stay up late when required and get it all done. We wouldn't keep winning jobs if we didn't. I think talent is working in our favour and I don't shout about it at all - but even I am beginning to believe our press, but not so much I start leaving things to chance.

the gripe was we won those jobs fair and square - why the sour grapes and having to win it a second time as we were part time!

I love it - my clients love us and we run a really nice rig. Everyone's a winner baby.

[rob1963]

I stay up late when required and get it all done.

Which you wouldn't have to do if you were full time, and that's my point.

[NKR]

Which you wouldn't have to do if you were full time, and that's my point.

And I refer back to the fact that I could not even start to replace my income DJ'ing.

It's our hobby and we love it. The fact we are good at it helps. Its not a full time part time arguement its a I can still service my clients and grow the thing as a part time operator. Yes I am stretched at times, but always know my capacity and turn down jobs I can't fully service.

[Vectis]

I love it - my clients love us and we run a really nice rig. Everyone's a winner baby.


And I refer back to the fact that I could not even start to replace my income DJ'ing.


?? Does not compute ??

I don't wish to start a numbers war, neither am I interested in the numbers, but suffice to say that with very little notice (ie about 3 months) I walked from a VERY well paid role and accelerated the (previously part-time) entertainments business to a level that I could comfortably live off without killing myself in the process.

It can be done.

[rob1963]

And I refer back to the fact that I could not even start to replace my income DJ'ing.

That doesn't surprise me, as I recently had to pay a surveyor £650 to visit my home & tell me I had dry rot...which I was 99% certain about anyway!

[NKR]

That doesn't surprise me, as I recently had to pay a surveyor £650 to visit my home & tell me I had dry rot...which I was 99% certain about anyway!

I don't do what building surveyors do (different field from me, although as a development surveyor I do pocess the majority of the same skills) as I am on the commercial front dealing with office and industrial development and investment and long term land plays.
That does sound about right for a site visit and supporting report though.

[Mark Wild]

The only ones that seem to have a "bee in their bonnet" about the whole full time part time thang are the part timers (as far as I can see). I think that nearly every full timer on this forum (myself included) will know that part timers provide as professional a service as the full timers, I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.

:agree: It's all relative really though, a part timer may well put more time an effort into their DJ business than some full timers !

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I certainly wouldn't have enough time to run my business part time. I spend anything from 8-12 hours a day in my office.

Djing is the tip of the iceberg..

[Mark Wild]

I certainly would have no life and not much sleep if I was doing my old fulltime job and running my business. Surely something would have to give !

[rob1963]

a part timer may well put more time and effort into their DJ business than some full timers !

While that may be true, I think a full timer is likely to put more time & effort into their business, for the simple reason that they have no other income.

[Mark Wild]

While that may be true, I think a full timer is likely to put more time & effort into their business, for the simple reason that they have no other income.

I doubt you've put much thought into that comment ;)

[rob1963]

I doubt you've put much thought into that comment ;)

Loads!

:D

P.S. Not wanting to promote Bellshill anymore?

[DJ Tony McQue]

While that may be true, I think a full timer is likely to put more time & effort into their business, for the simple reason that they have no other income.
I am getting way more work and satisfaction doing it part time rather than full time, it turned into a chore doing mid week gigs. I now look forward to every gig and do a much better job. This is showing in the amount of repeat business I am getting. Financially I don't have to DJ, I do it because it is a labour of love. It is nice to be rewarded for the work and buy new toys..

[NKR]

I am getting way more work and satisfaction doing it part time rather than full time, it turned into a chore doing mid week gigs. I now look forward to every gig and do a much better job. This is showing in the amount of repeat business I am getting. Financially I don't have to DJ, I do it because it is a labour of love. It is nice to be rewarded for the work and buy new toys..

And there is a man of my own heart!

Which takes me full circle to my original chest clearing. Just because we are part time and do it as a hobby does not mean we are cheating, will be illegal, will provide a lesser service, will be unreliable, not paying tax, which was the instantaneous accusations from the deposed DJ's when we started picking up preferred status at a couple of venues recently.

I may only have a couple of hours a night to service my jobs, but I don't need to service the volume of jobs I would need to if I was full time and if I lose jobs, etc it is personally annoying as I like to win, but its not the end of the world.

[paull]

That has always been my concern about going full time, I do not want DJ ing to be a chore but something to look forward to.

Because I am a Part - Timer does not mean I am not professional. I have been asked to play in several clubs and Ibiza and like NKR am able ask and get more than the regulars seem to get paid.

[Mark Wild]

This thread is getting on my wick tbh, just focus on what you do and do it to the best of your ability.

[NKR]

This thread is getting on my wick tbh, just focus on what you do and do it to the best of your ability.

I was commenting on recent snipes at my outfit, which I know happended as the people we are dealing with came back to us about it, and getting it off my chest.

I focus on what I do and do it to the best of my ability. It would appear some people can't deal with that. Its not my fault the full time guys we deposed weren't good enough - the sour grapes just isn't necessary.

[rob1963]

This thread is getting on my wick

Then stop reading it & posting in it!

:confused:

[Mark Wild]

I was commenting on recent snipes at my outfit, which I know happended as the people we are dealing with came back to us about it, and getting it off my chest.

All he said she said hear say, nothing from the horses mouth ;)

[NKR]

All he said she said hear say, nothing from the horses mouth ;)

Yes I always find that decent venues give your preferred status, then a couple of days later call you asking all about, PAT, PLI, Revenue. They were very up front with me saying the previous chap had suggested as part time operators we would not be above board.

Don't need it from the horses mouth.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

All he said she said hear say, nothing from the horses mouth ;)

To be fair, ive had similar sour grapes...and it wasnt full timer either.

With the shoe on the other foot, if you had a regular gig and were doing it as cheap as possibly...and someone still undercut you...would you not consider if they were 100% legit. The sour grapes is if you then go to your (now) ex-venue, and make also sorts of unfounded accusations about PLI, PAT etc etc. Which is what happened with me at the time too.

I agree, that everyone should concentrate on their own business, but some people cant, and like trying to stick the spanner in. I get it weekly with the pub gig. Someone always approaces the manager to do it cheaper, but he likes me :D

[NKR]

To be fair, ive had similar sour grapes...and it wasnt full timer either.

With the shoe on the other foot, if you had a regular gig and were doing it as cheap as possibly...and someone still undercut you...would you not consider if they were 100% legit. The sour grapes is if you then go to your (now) ex-venue, and make also sorts of unfounded accusations about PLI, PAT etc etc. Which is what happened with me at the time too.

I agree, that everyone should concentrate on their own business, but some people cant, and like trying to stick the spanner in. I get it weekly with the pub gig. Someone always approaces the manager to do it cheaper, but he likes me :D

Cheers dude. As I say was just having a moan on the forum as I know its full of like minded people who do their own thing, buy might appreciate the circumstances. I am not that annoyed, it just wicked me a wee little tinsy tiny bit. In the end of the day we have the job, so all is good.

Edit - We are more money in both cases - not cheaper. That no doubt annoyed them a bit.

[rob1963]

I've just been reading this thread again, and have a couple more thoughts.

I've seen this from both sides, as I was part time for about 20 years and then went full time 6 years ago, and since going full time my service has improved a lot...especially with the initial contact.

For example, if I get a phone enquiry, I'm usually here to answer it, but when I was part time that wasn't possible. Enquirers had to leave a message & I'd call them back when I got home from work, although in reality many people hate answerphones & would have just hung up & phoned another disco instead.

It is a similar story with email response times.

Also, when I was part time, if people wanted a visit in the daytime, they were out of luck, but it's obviously not a problem now.